https://heroeswiki.ddns.net/index.php?action=history&feed=atom&title=Talk%3AElectromagnetism%2FArchive_3 2026-06-16T07:40:54Z Revision history for this page on the wiki MediaWiki 1.44.5 https://heroeswiki.ddns.net/index.php?title=Talk:Electromagnetism/Archive_3&diff=290201&oldid=prev 2010-04-11T05:53:15Z

<p></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 05:53, 11 April 2010</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="4" class="diff-notice" lang="en"><div class="mw-diff-empty">(No difference)</div> </td></tr> <!-- diff cache key heroeswiki_dpl_en:diff:1.41:old-170989:rev-290201 --> </table>

imported>Radicell https://heroeswiki.ddns.net/index.php?title=Talk:Electromagnetism/Archive_3&diff=170989&oldid=prev 2010-04-11T05:53:15Z

<p></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 05:53, 11 April 2010</td> </tr><tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 57:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 57:</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>******** Peter's feet appear to me like they are on the ground when he first says 'Lightning. That ought to come in handy.' and begins shooting lightning bolts, but they are not shown at all thereafter when he does so and it's not a very clear perspective (Hiro's arm partially blocks the view), so that's one reason Peter is still listed as a user of the ability. Myself, I'd think Peter would have said something like 'Lightning and levitation, a two for one deal. Cool.' or something similar if he had been able to levitate, but he didn't reference the levitation at all and they never showed Peter's feet leave the ground.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 03:56, 9 December 2008 (EST)</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>******** Peter's feet appear to me like they are on the ground when he first says 'Lightning. That ought to come in handy.' and begins shooting lightning bolts, but they are not shown at all thereafter when he does so and it's not a very clear perspective (Hiro's arm partially blocks the view), so that's one reason Peter is still listed as a user of the ability. Myself, I'd think Peter would have said something like 'Lightning and levitation, a two for one deal. Cool.' or something similar if he had been able to levitate, but he didn't reference the levitation at all and they never showed Peter's feet leave the ground.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 03:56, 9 December 2008 (EST)</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Instances==</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Instances==</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td> <td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>It is completely speculative (imo) to say that Peter always exhibits all aspects of a power (as long as he's aware of them) immediately upon absorption. Going down the list of the powers he's mimicked, many would fail to meet that criteria. Some of them were used without Peter even knowing he had them (eg - Flight, Phasing, RCR, etc), some were not able to be reproduced without training (eg - telekinesis), and for some he did not exhibit all aspects of the power upon getting it (eg - STM, intuitive aptitude, telepathy). As for intuitive aptitude, why would Peter have to be around Sylar when he was using the power to absorb it? That's inconsistent with how empathic mimcry works, and I can't think of anything that was said that indicates that to be the case. We know that Peter was unable to ''use'' it until he learned how, but I thought it was generally agreed upon that he absorbed IA in ''[[Homecoming]]''. With regards to the overall discussion here, I think it would be really obtuse writing for Peter to say... "Lightning. That ought to come in handy."... and have this be referring to some power he had previously obtained, especially when there's an agent in the yard firing lightning from his hands. --[[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 17:42, 8 December 2008 (EST)</div></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>It is completely speculative (imo) to say that Peter always exhibits all aspects of a power (as long as he's aware of them) immediately upon absorption. Going down the list of the powers he's mimicked, many would fail to meet that criteria. Some of them were used without Peter even knowing he had them (eg - Flight, Phasing, RCR, etc), some were not able to be reproduced without training (eg - telekinesis), and for some he did not exhibit all aspects of the power upon getting it (eg - STM, intuitive aptitude, telepathy). As for intuitive aptitude, why would Peter have to be around Sylar when he was using the power to absorb it? That's inconsistent with how empathic mimcry works, and I can't think of anything that was said that indicates that to be the case. We know that Peter was unable to ''use'' it until he learned how, but I thought it was generally agreed upon that he absorbed IA in ''[[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Episode:Homecoming|</ins>Homecoming]]''. With regards to the overall discussion here, I think it would be really obtuse writing for Peter to say... "Lightning. That ought to come in handy."... and have this be referring to some power he had previously obtained, especially when there's an agent in the yard firing lightning from his hands. --[[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 17:42, 8 December 2008 (EST)</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Ok, we're looking for an ability that Peter witnesses being used in its totality and then only uses part of it while the other person was still using all of it in his presence. Let's go through your list one at a time... flight, when Nathan flew in Season One to rescue Peter when he jumped off a building, he later told Peter that Peter flew also... Peter later went to Mohinder and told him that he had the power to do what other people could do, but only when he was with them. This didn't change until Claude trained him to recall abilities. Phasing wasn't used in Peter's presence, he simply absorbed it by being close to DL and discovered it later, so irrelevant. RCR he used the first time by being near Claire when she too was healing from some scrapes, more confirmation there. Regarding STM from Hiro, Peter only witnessed Hiro freezing time so didn't know at first that there were other aspects to the ability; he ended up discovering the other aspects later and had he froze time when Hiro froze time when they first met, we wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Telepathy I already covered in previous message. Intuitive aptitude wasn't used in front of Peter to learn anything until Sylar used it to explain how it worked. Peter didn't know what Sylar's ability was, just that he needed it. Peter had likely absorbed a lot of powers before losing his ability, but without being able to tie them to an emotion or a face, he wasn't able to use them--that's my impression of how he explained his empathic mimicry working when he was with Claude.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 01:08, 9 December 2008 (EST)</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Ok, we're looking for an ability that Peter witnesses being used in its totality and then only uses part of it while the other person was still using all of it in his presence. Let's go through your list one at a time... flight, when Nathan flew in Season One to rescue Peter when he jumped off a building, he later told Peter that Peter flew also... Peter later went to Mohinder and told him that he had the power to do what other people could do, but only when he was with them. This didn't change until Claude trained him to recall abilities. Phasing wasn't used in Peter's presence, he simply absorbed it by being close to DL and discovered it later, so irrelevant. RCR he used the first time by being near Claire when she too was healing from some scrapes, more confirmation there. Regarding STM from Hiro, Peter only witnessed Hiro freezing time so didn't know at first that there were other aspects to the ability; he ended up discovering the other aspects later and had he froze time when Hiro froze time when they first met, we wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Telepathy I already covered in previous message. Intuitive aptitude wasn't used in front of Peter to learn anything until Sylar used it to explain how it worked. Peter didn't know what Sylar's ability was, just that he needed it. Peter had likely absorbed a lot of powers before losing his ability, but without being able to tie them to an emotion or a face, he wasn't able to use them--that's my impression of how he explained his empathic mimicry working when he was with Claude.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 01:08, 9 December 2008 (EST)</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** It seems to me you're coming up with different arguments for each individual instance. Looking at Peter's list most of the powers there do not fall under your specification, for one reason or another. That's beside the point anyway, since evidence needs to be shown that Peter automatically mimics all forms of an ability he knows of, not the other way around. The bottom line (from my POV) is that there is no reason to assume that Peter is somehow forced to mimic all aspects of an ability he witnesses, or not have that ability. It's complete speculation to say so (I'd point out that correlation is not causation, but there's barely even corelation here). All of this aside, why would we assume the agent has a new ability that's never named as opposed to two different abilities? --[[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 02:26, 9 December 2008 (EST)</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** It seems to me you're coming up with different arguments for each individual instance. Looking at Peter's list most of the powers there do not fall under your specification, for one reason or another. That's beside the point anyway, since evidence needs to be shown that Peter automatically mimics all forms of an ability he knows of, not the other way around. The bottom line (from my POV) is that there is no reason to assume that Peter is somehow forced to mimic all aspects of an ability he witnesses, or not have that ability. It's complete speculation to say so (I'd point out that correlation is not causation, but there's barely even corelation here). All of this aside, why would we assume the agent has a new ability that's never named as opposed to two different abilities? --[[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 02:26, 9 December 2008 (EST)</div></td> </tr> <!-- diff cache key heroeswiki_dpl_en:diff:1.41:old-290200:rev-170989:wikidiff2=table:1.14.1:bc2a06be --> </table>

imported>Radicell https://heroeswiki.ddns.net/index.php?title=Talk:Electromagnetism/Archive_3&diff=290200&oldid=prev 2008-12-15T17:13:45Z

<p>archived Electromagnetism Talk Archive 3</p> <a href="https://heroeswiki.ddns.net/index.php?title=Talk:Electromagnetism/Archive_3&amp;diff=290200">Show changes</a>

imported>HiroDynoSlayer