Talk:Gravitational manipulation - Revision history

imported>Referos: /* Name */

2009-12-01T01:13:20Z

Name

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:13, 1 December 2009
(No difference)

imported>Referos: /* Name */

2009-12-01T01:13:20Z

Name

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:13, 1 December 2009
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	**** I'd like to note that the name gravitational manipulation isn't confirmed by the staff, but by an anonymous writer, who may or may not be part of the main staff. Something you might also note is that the term on the picture in the assignment tracker entry is "gravitational field manipulation". Did the word field get dropped off because it wouldn't fit in the box?--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 13:23, 16 October 2008 (EDT)		**** I'd like to note that the name gravitational manipulation isn't confirmed by the staff, but by an anonymous writer, who may or may not be part of the main staff. Something you might also note is that the term on the picture in the assignment tracker entry is "gravitational field manipulation". Did the word field get dropped off because it wouldn't fit in the box?--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 13:23, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
	* In all true fans' lives, there comes a time where the producers make a decision so mind-bogglingly nonsensical, that you have to wonder if there was some sort of gas leak in their building on the day they came up with it. This is one of those.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:49, 29 November 2009 (EST)		* In all true fans' lives, there comes a time where the producers make a decision so mind-bogglingly nonsensical, that you have to wonder if there was some sort of gas leak in their building on the day they came up with it. This is one of those.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:49, 29 November 2009 (EST)
			** This ability name makes perfect sense. Gravity is really the curvature of space-time, so it's not so far-fetched (for science fiction, that is) to imagine that, by manipulating gravity, space-time can be altered, creating vortices. Additionally, "gravitational vacuum" is a term that actually exists (see [[Wikipedia:Gravastar\|gravitational vacuum star]] which is similar to a black hole). Can we please, as a society, move on?--[[User:Referos\|Referos]] 20:13, 30 November 2009 (EST)
	* One of the beautiful things about all art is that, once, made, it only partly belongs to its creator. Once let out into the world, a TV show or comic book or painting belongs almost as much to the people who watch it/read it/look at it as to the man who made/drew/painted.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:49, 29 November 2009 (EST)		* One of the beautiful things about all art is that, once, made, it only partly belongs to its creator. Once let out into the world, a TV show or comic book or painting belongs almost as much to the people who watch it/read it/look at it as to the man who made/drew/painted.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:49, 29 November 2009 (EST)

imported>D and d 123: /* Name */

2009-11-29T23:49:06Z

Name

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	** Please see [[Help talk:Naming conventions#Hierarchy redux]] and afterward read [[Help talk:Naming conventions#2nd reason]] for continued discussion as to what is a canon source. I think it would be good to see some other opinions on the matter. PS: It was corrected that it was Sandra that read his file, and the files they were reading did not look anything like assignment tracker entries.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 17:38, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		** Please see [[Help talk:Naming conventions#Hierarchy redux]] and afterward read [[Help talk:Naming conventions#2nd reason]] for continued discussion as to what is a canon source. I think it would be good to see some other opinions on the matter. PS: It was corrected that it was Sandra that read his file, and the files they were reading did not look anything like assignment tracker entries.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 17:38, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	** Anyway, the name gravitational manipulation is confirmed by the staff of ''Heroes''. You can't change it because you say "Hey, it doesn't make sense - it has some scientific inaccuracies!" or "Hey, it sounded bad, let's change the name!" The name is '''confirm''', whether you like it or not. I don't like the fact that Dumbledore is actually gay, but I still accept it because J. K. Rowling said so and it's a fact. [[User:Chrisyu357\|Chrisyu357]] 05:58, 16 October 2008 (EDT)		** Anyway, the name gravitational manipulation is confirmed by the staff of ''Heroes''. You can't change it because you say "Hey, it doesn't make sense - it has some scientific inaccuracies!" or "Hey, it sounded bad, let's change the name!" The name is '''confirm''', whether you like it or not. I don't like the fact that Dumbledore is actually gay, but I still accept it because J. K. Rowling said so and it's a fact. [[User:Chrisyu357\|Chrisyu357]] 05:58, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
			***If the Heroes staff made a character who could, say, shoot lightning from his fingers, but decided his ability should be called "Gooberization", would you support using that term for that character's ability?--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:49, 29 November 2009 (EST)
	*** The question isn't so much what the staff have confirmed, but whether we prefer to use the "in show" term or a "show extension" term. I'm content with gravity manipulation, even thought I would prefer an in-show term. I'm thinking it might be worthwhile to put a bold references to vortex creation on this page, so someone searching based on the on-air terminology would hit it. --[[User:Ted C\|Ted C]] 10:47, 16 October 2008 (EDT)		*** The question isn't so much what the staff have confirmed, but whether we prefer to use the "in show" term or a "show extension" term. I'm content with gravity manipulation, even thought I would prefer an in-show term. I'm thinking it might be worthwhile to put a bold references to vortex creation on this page, so someone searching based on the on-air terminology would hit it. --[[User:Ted C\|Ted C]] 10:47, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
	**** I'd like to note that the name gravitational manipulation isn't confirmed by the staff, but by an anonymous writer, who may or may not be part of the main staff. Something you might also note is that the term on the picture in the assignment tracker entry is "gravitational field manipulation". Did the word field get dropped off because it wouldn't fit in the box?--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 13:23, 16 October 2008 (EDT)		**** I'd like to note that the name gravitational manipulation isn't confirmed by the staff, but by an anonymous writer, who may or may not be part of the main staff. Something you might also note is that the term on the picture in the assignment tracker entry is "gravitational field manipulation". Did the word field get dropped off because it wouldn't fit in the box?--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 13:23, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
			* In all true fans' lives, there comes a time where the producers make a decision so mind-bogglingly nonsensical, that you have to wonder if there was some sort of gas leak in their building on the day they came up with it. This is one of those.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:49, 29 November 2009 (EST)
			* One of the beautiful things about all art is that, once, made, it only partly belongs to its creator. Once let out into the world, a TV show or comic book or painting belongs almost as much to the people who watch it/read it/look at it as to the man who made/drew/painted.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:49, 29 November 2009 (EST)

	==Hmm==		==Hmm==

imported>D and d 123: /* Canonicity */

2009-11-29T23:44:04Z

Canonicity

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	**"Matter obliteration" doesn't make anymore sense, since that'd imply he can just reduce a character to atoms or something. Plus, from a purely scientific standpoint, it's impossible. Matter can't be created nor destroyed/obliterated --''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:07, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		**"Matter obliteration" doesn't make anymore sense, since that'd imply he can just reduce a character to atoms or something. Plus, from a purely scientific standpoint, it's impossible. Matter can't be created nor destroyed/obliterated --''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:07, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	*It does make perfect sense. Yes i am aware of Matter not being destroyed very well indeed. Matter can't be created? Have you ever heard of the Big Bang by any chance? I meant obliteration in terms of obscuring or concealing - the change of shape and gravity in which the specific property has. Stephen obviously has that ability. '''Gravity has nothing to do with it thus the name for his ability is incorrect'''. --[[User:ACDC1989\|ACDC1989]] 04:16, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		*It does make perfect sense. Yes i am aware of Matter not being destroyed very well indeed. Matter can't be created? Have you ever heard of the Big Bang by any chance? I meant obliteration in terms of obscuring or concealing - the change of shape and gravity in which the specific property has. Stephen obviously has that ability. '''Gravity has nothing to do with it thus the name for his ability is incorrect'''. --[[User:ACDC1989\|ACDC1989]] 04:16, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
			*It's kind of a weird coincidence, but black holes do destroy matter (or as near as makes no difference). Black holes are 1D; most matter in our universe is 3D. When a 3D object is sucked into a 1D black hole, the rules of our universe just go flying out the window.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:44, 29 November 2009 (EST)
	**In which case he's changing the physics of the property, so "matter" is incorrect. --''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:19, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		**In which case he's changing the physics of the property, so "matter" is incorrect. --''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:19, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	* Matchu do you know what the basic element in science is? Matter. Even Stephen Hawking stated that black holes evaporate, which states the changing of matter. Whether in Physics, Biology, Chemistry or Mathematics. Matter is everywhere hence a major part of it. If a human were to go through a black hole the 'pull' would be so great it would disintergate you into a particle smaller than a light particle. You would be instantly crushed and then you will never be seen again because nothing and not even light can escape a black hole. Thus matter would be '''obscured''' and '''concealed'''. Scientists would argue that one would change in terms of the property of matter. The term '''gravitational manipulation''' is wrong ~~becuase~~ that would mean Stephen has mastery over all forms of gravity. --[[User:ACDC1989\|ACDC1989]] 04:25, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		* Matchu do you know what the basic element in science is? Matter. Even Stephen Hawking stated that black holes evaporate, which states the changing of matter. Whether in Physics, Biology, Chemistry or Mathematics. Matter is everywhere hence a major part of it. If a human were to go through a black hole the 'pull' would be so great it would disintergate you into a particle smaller than a light particle. You would be instantly crushed and then you will never be seen again because nothing and not even light can escape a black hole. Thus matter would be '''obscured''' and '''concealed'''. Scientists would argue that one would change in terms of the property of matter. The term '''gravitational manipulation''' is wrong because that would mean Stephen has mastery over all forms of gravity. --[[User:ACDC1989\|ACDC1989]] 04:25, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	** "Correct" or "incorrect", the term we will be using for Canfield's power is "gravitational manipulation". Besides the fact that it does make sense (if he creates a [[wikipedia:black hole\|black hole]], that has everything to do with gravity), it's the name given to us. Heroes Wiki is primarily a site that catalogs and archives the world of ''Heroes'', not a site that makes scientific conjectures or debates the laws of science, or even of science fiction. If the world of ''Heroes'' calls the power "gravitational manipulation", so do we. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 04:30, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		** "Correct" or "incorrect", the term we will be using for Canfield's power is "gravitational manipulation". Besides the fact that it does make sense (if he creates a [[wikipedia:black hole\|black hole]], that has everything to do with gravity), it's the name given to us. Heroes Wiki is primarily a site that catalogs and archives the world of ''Heroes'', not a site that makes scientific conjectures or debates the laws of science, or even of science fiction. If the world of ''Heroes'' calls the power "gravitational manipulation", so do we. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 04:30, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	**That's not what would happen. First you'd be "stretched" and torn apart (a process know as spaghettification, yes it's a real word) into elementary particles. What happens at the singularity is unknown. That's, of course, providing you fall into a Schwarzschild. Oh and on an offshoot, things do escape black holes; that's how we know they're there. Anyway, this random science aside is pointless, the article shouldn't be changed because we have a near-canon source on it (the tracker).--''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:33, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		**That's not what would happen. First you'd be "stretched" and torn apart (a process know as spaghettification, yes it's a real word) into elementary particles. What happens at the singularity is unknown. That's, of course, providing you fall into a Schwarzschild. Oh and on an offshoot, things do escape black holes; that's how we know they're there. Anyway, this random science aside is pointless, the article shouldn't be changed because we have a near-canon source on it (the tracker).--''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:33, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
			*If nothing could escape a black hole, then technically the entire Universe would have been completely destroyed when the first black hole formed.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:44, 29 November 2009 (EST)
	* Ok kk, Ryan and Matchu. I'd like to state something though. If his ability was gravitational manipulation he would manipulate and control all forms of gravity. Theoretically he the could change the weight of objects, fly, or form forcefields. Does that mean we are ~~chaning~~ 'Freezing' and 'Pyrokinesis' to temperature manipulation because that has everything to do with temperature. Or what about "Flight" - can we change that to gravitational manipulation as well? What about regeneration? How about blood or cell manipulation?--[[User:ACDC1989\|ACDC1989]] 04:39, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		* Ok kk, Ryan and Matchu. I'd like to state something though. If his ability was gravitational manipulation he would manipulate and control all forms of gravity. Theoretically he the could change the weight of objects, fly, or form forcefields. Does that mean we are chaining 'Freezing' and 'Pyrokinesis' to temperature manipulation because that has everything to do with temperature. Or what about "Flight" - can we change that to gravitational manipulation as well? What about regeneration? How about blood or cell manipulation?--[[User:ACDC1989\|ACDC1989]] 04:39, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	**I made a similar point about the name myself before under the comment of something like "eugh it's really clunky". Yeah the name sucks, but it isn't related to what the ability can do ''per se'', it's what we've got off the assignment tracker so we have a duty to stick to what is canon in our articles. --''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:40, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		**I made a similar point about the name myself before under the comment of something like "eugh it's really clunky". Yeah the name sucks, but it isn't related to what the ability can do ''per se'', it's what we've got off the assignment tracker so we have a duty to stick to what is canon in our articles. --''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:40, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	*** If anybody doesn't like it, tell the writers--[[Joe Pokaski]] and [[Aron Coleite]] are always very willing to answer fan questions and respond to comments in their "[http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18423 Behind the Eclipse]" Q&A sessions. But even if the name is a bit broad (which it is), it still works. It would be absolutely impossible to create a name for an ability that deftly describes all the limits and attributes of the ability--that's why we have an entire page (sometimes two or three!) dedicated to describing and explaining the ability. Nobody is saying that Canfield can manipulate all gravity or that he floats or anything like that--he manipulates gravity in a very unique way. That doesn't mean that other power names should be changed (heck, who knows how Nathan flies--maybe he uses the Earth's magnetic fields, or maybe he just farts a whole lot to get airborne), it just means that the writing staff were kind enough to give us the name they decided upon for Canfield's ability, and we should be grateful that we have so much information about the power! Perfect, no. A true gift? Definitely. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 04:48, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		*** If anybody doesn't like it, tell the writers--[[Joe Pokaski]] and [[Aron Coleite]] are always very willing to answer fan questions and respond to comments in their "[http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18423 Behind the Eclipse]" Q&A sessions. But even if the name is a bit broad (which it is), it still works. It would be absolutely impossible to create a name for an ability that deftly describes all the limits and attributes of the ability--that's why we have an entire page (sometimes two or three!) dedicated to describing and explaining the ability. Nobody is saying that Canfield can manipulate all gravity or that he floats or anything like that--he manipulates gravity in a very unique way. That doesn't mean that other power names should be changed (heck, who knows how Nathan flies--maybe he uses the Earth's magnetic fields, or maybe he just farts a whole lot to get airborne), it just means that the writing staff were kind enough to give us the name they decided upon for Canfield's ability, and we should be grateful that we have so much information about the power! Perfect, no. A true gift? Definitely. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 04:48, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

imported>D and d 123: /* Name */

2009-11-27T20:27:30Z

Name

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	* Like Ryan said above, ask the writers for their opinion on why they called it "gravitational manipulation". I must say i don't agree with the name either because it hasn't got a thing to do with gravity. But let's wait for the writers answer. --[[User:Futurepeter\|Futurepeter]] 09:56, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		* Like Ryan said above, ask the writers for their opinion on why they called it "gravitational manipulation". I must say i don't agree with the name either because it hasn't got a thing to do with gravity. But let's wait for the writers answer. --[[User:Futurepeter\|Futurepeter]] 09:56, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	** I don't see why it "makes no sense" and "hasn't got a thing to do with gravity". A black hole forms because the gravity of that space is so strong that it actually sucks everything, even light, into that space. By increasing the gravity in one spot, one can create a vortex. Theoretically, something called white hole also exists. It is where things sucked in by black holes get ejected back out. This fits perfectly from what we know about this ability - how a hole sucks everything in and why it is described as a "dimension pull". Even if it makes no sense, we still have to follow the policy, because the policy helps us name ability without speculations. [[User:Chrisyu357\|Chrisyu357]] 09:59, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		** I don't see why it "makes no sense" and "hasn't got a thing to do with gravity". A black hole forms because the gravity of that space is so strong that it actually sucks everything, even light, into that space. By increasing the gravity in one spot, one can create a vortex. Theoretically, something called white hole also exists. It is where things sucked in by black holes get ejected back out. This fits perfectly from what we know about this ability - how a hole sucks everything in and why it is described as a "dimension pull". Even if it makes no sense, we still have to follow the policy, because the policy helps us name ability without speculations. [[User:Chrisyu357\|Chrisyu357]] 09:59, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	*** Electric manipulation allows you to create, direct, and otherwise play with electricity in a near-infinite number of ways. Stephen's ability only does one thing: create vortexes. If he had gravitational manipulation, he should be able to manipulate gravity (like making something extremely heavy or light, or making someone start falling upwards/sideways). Naming this ability "gravitational manipulation" makes about as much sense as saying that technopathy is electric manipulation: there's one point in common (electricity), but they couldn't be more different.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 15:26, 27 November 2009 (EST)<br />		*** ''Electric'' manipulation allows you to create, direct, and otherwise play with electricity in a near-infinite number of ways. Stephen's ability only does one thing: create vortexes. If he had gravitational '''manipulation''', he should be able to manipulate gravity (like making something extremely heavy or light, or making someone start falling upwards/sideways). Naming this ability "gravitational manipulation" makes about as much sense as saying that technopathy is electric manipulation: there's one point in common (electricity), but they couldn't be more different.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 15:26, 27 November 2009 (EST)<br />
	*** What Chris said. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 10:46, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		*** What Chris said. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 10:46, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	*** The difference, though, is that a black hole has mass (a LOT of mass), and won't just spontaeously disappear. If a black hole decays, it releases a nasty burst of radiation in the process. There isn't really any such thing as a "white hole", to my knowledge. The description of him creating openings to other dimensions actually makes a lot more sense. --[[User:Ted C\|Ted C]] 14:48, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		*** The difference, though, is that a black hole has mass (a LOT of mass), and won't just spontaeously disappear. If a black hole decays, it releases a nasty burst of radiation in the process. There isn't really any such thing as a "white hole", to my knowledge. The description of him creating openings to other dimensions actually makes a lot more sense. --[[User:Ted C\|Ted C]] 14:48, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

imported>D and d 123: /* Name */

2009-11-27T20:26:32Z

Name

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	* Like Ryan said above, ask the writers for their opinion on why they called it "gravitational manipulation". I must say i don't agree with the name either because it hasn't got a thing to do with gravity. But let's wait for the writers answer. --[[User:Futurepeter\|Futurepeter]] 09:56, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		* Like Ryan said above, ask the writers for their opinion on why they called it "gravitational manipulation". I must say i don't agree with the name either because it hasn't got a thing to do with gravity. But let's wait for the writers answer. --[[User:Futurepeter\|Futurepeter]] 09:56, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	** I don't see why it "makes no sense" and "hasn't got a thing to do with gravity". A black hole forms because the gravity of that space is so strong that it actually sucks everything, even light, into that space. By increasing the gravity in one spot, one can create a vortex. Theoretically, something called white hole also exists. It is where things sucked in by black holes get ejected back out. This fits perfectly from what we know about this ability - how a hole sucks everything in and why it is described as a "dimension pull". Even if it makes no sense, we still have to follow the policy, because the policy helps us name ability without speculations. [[User:Chrisyu357\|Chrisyu357]] 09:59, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		** I don't see why it "makes no sense" and "hasn't got a thing to do with gravity". A black hole forms because the gravity of that space is so strong that it actually sucks everything, even light, into that space. By increasing the gravity in one spot, one can create a vortex. Theoretically, something called white hole also exists. It is where things sucked in by black holes get ejected back out. This fits perfectly from what we know about this ability - how a hole sucks everything in and why it is described as a "dimension pull". Even if it makes no sense, we still have to follow the policy, because the policy helps us name ability without speculations. [[User:Chrisyu357\|Chrisyu357]] 09:59, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
			*** Electric manipulation allows you to create, direct, and otherwise play with electricity in a near-infinite number of ways. Stephen's ability only does one thing: create vortexes. If he had gravitational manipulation, he should be able to manipulate gravity (like making something extremely heavy or light, or making someone start falling upwards/sideways). Naming this ability "gravitational manipulation" makes about as much sense as saying that technopathy is electric manipulation: there's one point in common (electricity), but they couldn't be more different.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 15:26, 27 November 2009 (EST)<br />
	*** What Chris said. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 10:46, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		*** What Chris said. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 10:46, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	*** The difference, though, is that a black hole has mass (a LOT of mass), and won't just spontaeously disappear. If a black hole decays, it releases a nasty burst of radiation in the process. There isn't really any such thing as a "white hole", to my knowledge. The description of him creating openings to other dimensions actually makes a lot more sense. --[[User:Ted C\|Ted C]] 14:48, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		*** The difference, though, is that a black hole has mass (a LOT of mass), and won't just spontaeously disappear. If a black hole decays, it releases a nasty burst of radiation in the process. There isn't really any such thing as a "white hole", to my knowledge. The description of him creating openings to other dimensions actually makes a lot more sense. --[[User:Ted C\|Ted C]] 14:48, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

imported>Ryangibsonstewart: /* Kills himself? */

2009-11-14T23:24:20Z

Kills himself?

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	In the image where Stephen drags himself into his own vortex it's written that he kills himself. That uncorrect information cause it's unkown whats happing to someone who get's in a vortex, so can i edit that?--[[User:Yoshi n1\|Yoshi n1]] 17:35, 14 November 2009 (EST)		In the image where Stephen drags himself into his own vortex it's written that he kills himself. That uncorrect information cause it's unkown whats happing to someone who get's in a vortex, so can i edit that?--[[User:Yoshi n1\|Yoshi n1]] 17:35, 14 November 2009 (EST)
	*I'd say so. --[[User:Mc hammark\|mc_hammark]] 17:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)		*I'd say so. --[[User:Mc hammark\|mc_hammark]] 17:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)
			** Actually, his [[Assignment Tracker]] [[Assignment Tracker 2.0/Stephen Canfield\|profile]] says that even though his exact disposition remains unknown, he is presumed dead. We can say that he killed himself, which is essentially what he did. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 18:24, 14 November 2009 (EST)

imported>Mc hammark: /* Kills himself? */

2009-11-14T22:37:08Z

Kills himself?

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	== Kills himself? ==		== Kills himself? ==
	In the image where Stephen drags himself into his own vortex it's written that he kills himself. That uncorrect information cause it's unkown whats happing to someone who get's in a vortex, so can i edit that?--[[User:Yoshi n1\|Yoshi n1]] 17:35, 14 November 2009 (EST)		In the image where Stephen drags himself into his own vortex it's written that he kills himself. That uncorrect information cause it's unkown whats happing to someone who get's in a vortex, so can i edit that?--[[User:Yoshi n1\|Yoshi n1]] 17:35, 14 November 2009 (EST)
			*I'd say so. --[[User:Mc hammark\|mc_hammark]] 17:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)
	*I'd say so.

imported>Mc hammark: /* Kills himself? */

2009-11-14T22:36:50Z

Kills himself?

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:36, 14 November 2009
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	== Kills himself? ==		== Kills himself? ==
	In the image where Stephen drags himself into his own vortex it's written that he kills himself. That uncorrect information cause it's unkown whats happing to someone who get's in a vortex, so can i edit that?--[[User:Yoshi n1\|Yoshi n1]] 17:35, 14 November 2009 (EST)		In the image where Stephen drags himself into his own vortex it's written that he kills himself. That uncorrect information cause it's unkown whats happing to someone who get's in a vortex, so can i edit that?--[[User:Yoshi n1\|Yoshi n1]] 17:35, 14 November 2009 (EST)
			*I'd say so.

imported>Yoshi n1 at 22:35, 14 November 2009

2009-11-14T22:35:57Z

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	I'm sorry for bringing up names again, but gravitational manipulation doesn't really make sense to me. It would make the ability sound like it is used to change the pressure of gravity when all he really does is create a black hole. And it's not really manipulation because he's not manipulating anything. It's probably not a good idea to change the name, so I won't offer suggestions. I just want to know if anybody else notices this. Thanks. --[[User:Spexile\|Spexile]] 20:26, 24 April 2009 (EDT)		I'm sorry for bringing up names again, but gravitational manipulation doesn't really make sense to me. It would make the ability sound like it is used to change the pressure of gravity when all he really does is create a black hole. And it's not really manipulation because he's not manipulating anything. It's probably not a good idea to change the name, so I won't offer suggestions. I just want to know if anybody else notices this. Thanks. --[[User:Spexile\|Spexile]] 20:26, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
	* I'm not sure what the pressure of gravity is...but Stephen definitely creates gravitational vacuums (see [[Assignment Tracker 2.0/Stephen Canfield\|his Assignment Tracker profile]]). After all, a black hole is really just a region of space in which the gravitational field is so powerful that nothing, including light, can escape its pull (see [[Wikipedia:black hole\|Wikipedia]]). And if Stephen is manipulating gravity, it's certainly reasonable that he's manipulating it to the point that he can create a region of space with a very powerful gravitational field. But as for the name, you're right, it won't change, since it was explicitly given to us in Stephen's Assignment Tracker profile. :) -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 21:04, 24 April 2009 (EDT)		* I'm not sure what the pressure of gravity is...but Stephen definitely creates gravitational vacuums (see [[Assignment Tracker 2.0/Stephen Canfield\|his Assignment Tracker profile]]). After all, a black hole is really just a region of space in which the gravitational field is so powerful that nothing, including light, can escape its pull (see [[Wikipedia:black hole\|Wikipedia]]). And if Stephen is manipulating gravity, it's certainly reasonable that he's manipulating it to the point that he can create a region of space with a very powerful gravitational field. But as for the name, you're right, it won't change, since it was explicitly given to us in Stephen's Assignment Tracker profile. :) -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 21:04, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

			== Kills himself? ==
			In the image where Stephen drags himself into his own vortex it's written that he kills himself. That uncorrect information cause it's unkown whats happing to someone who get's in a vortex, so can i edit that?--[[User:Yoshi n1\|Yoshi n1]] 17:35, 14 November 2009 (EST)

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	**** I'd like to note that the name gravitational manipulation isn't confirmed by the staff, but by an anonymous writer, who may or may not be part of the main staff. Something you might also note is that the term on the picture in the assignment tracker entry is "gravitational field manipulation". Did the word field get dropped off because it wouldn't fit in the box?--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 13:23, 16 October 2008 (EDT)		**** I'd like to note that the name gravitational manipulation isn't confirmed by the staff, but by an anonymous writer, who may or may not be part of the main staff. Something you might also note is that the term on the picture in the assignment tracker entry is "gravitational field manipulation". Did the word field get dropped off because it wouldn't fit in the box?--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 13:23, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
	* In all true fans' lives, there comes a time where the producers make a decision so mind-bogglingly nonsensical, that you have to wonder if there was some sort of gas leak in their building on the day they came up with it. This is one of those.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:49, 29 November 2009 (EST)		* In all true fans' lives, there comes a time where the producers make a decision so mind-bogglingly nonsensical, that you have to wonder if there was some sort of gas leak in their building on the day they came up with it. This is one of those.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:49, 29 November 2009 (EST)
			** This ability name makes perfect sense. Gravity is really the curvature of space-time, so it's not so far-fetched (for science fiction, that is) to imagine that, by manipulating gravity, space-time can be altered, creating vortices. Additionally, "gravitational vacuum" is a term that actually exists (see [[Wikipedia:Gravastar\|gravitational vacuum star]] which is similar to a black hole). Can we please, as a society, move on?--[[User:Referos\|Referos]] 20:13, 30 November 2009 (EST)
	* One of the beautiful things about all art is that, once, made, it only partly belongs to its creator. Once let out into the world, a TV show or comic book or painting belongs almost as much to the people who watch it/read it/look at it as to the man who made/drew/painted.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:49, 29 November 2009 (EST)		* One of the beautiful things about all art is that, once, made, it only partly belongs to its creator. Once let out into the world, a TV show or comic book or painting belongs almost as much to the people who watch it/read it/look at it as to the man who made/drew/painted.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:49, 29 November 2009 (EST)

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	** Please see [[Help talk:Naming conventions#Hierarchy redux]] and afterward read [[Help talk:Naming conventions#2nd reason]] for continued discussion as to what is a canon source. I think it would be good to see some other opinions on the matter. PS: It was corrected that it was Sandra that read his file, and the files they were reading did not look anything like assignment tracker entries.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 17:38, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		** Please see [[Help talk:Naming conventions#Hierarchy redux]] and afterward read [[Help talk:Naming conventions#2nd reason]] for continued discussion as to what is a canon source. I think it would be good to see some other opinions on the matter. PS: It was corrected that it was Sandra that read his file, and the files they were reading did not look anything like assignment tracker entries.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 17:38, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	** Anyway, the name gravitational manipulation is confirmed by the staff of ''Heroes''. You can't change it because you say "Hey, it doesn't make sense - it has some scientific inaccuracies!" or "Hey, it sounded bad, let's change the name!" The name is '''confirm''', whether you like it or not. I don't like the fact that Dumbledore is actually gay, but I still accept it because J. K. Rowling said so and it's a fact. [[User:Chrisyu357\|Chrisyu357]] 05:58, 16 October 2008 (EDT)		** Anyway, the name gravitational manipulation is confirmed by the staff of ''Heroes''. You can't change it because you say "Hey, it doesn't make sense - it has some scientific inaccuracies!" or "Hey, it sounded bad, let's change the name!" The name is '''confirm''', whether you like it or not. I don't like the fact that Dumbledore is actually gay, but I still accept it because J. K. Rowling said so and it's a fact. [[User:Chrisyu357\|Chrisyu357]] 05:58, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
			***If the Heroes staff made a character who could, say, shoot lightning from his fingers, but decided his ability should be called "Gooberization", would you support using that term for that character's ability?--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:49, 29 November 2009 (EST)
	*** The question isn't so much what the staff have confirmed, but whether we prefer to use the "in show" term or a "show extension" term. I'm content with gravity manipulation, even thought I would prefer an in-show term. I'm thinking it might be worthwhile to put a bold references to vortex creation on this page, so someone searching based on the on-air terminology would hit it. --[[User:Ted C\|Ted C]] 10:47, 16 October 2008 (EDT)		*** The question isn't so much what the staff have confirmed, but whether we prefer to use the "in show" term or a "show extension" term. I'm content with gravity manipulation, even thought I would prefer an in-show term. I'm thinking it might be worthwhile to put a bold references to vortex creation on this page, so someone searching based on the on-air terminology would hit it. --[[User:Ted C\|Ted C]] 10:47, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
	**** I'd like to note that the name gravitational manipulation isn't confirmed by the staff, but by an anonymous writer, who may or may not be part of the main staff. Something you might also note is that the term on the picture in the assignment tracker entry is "gravitational field manipulation". Did the word field get dropped off because it wouldn't fit in the box?--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 13:23, 16 October 2008 (EDT)		**** I'd like to note that the name gravitational manipulation isn't confirmed by the staff, but by an anonymous writer, who may or may not be part of the main staff. Something you might also note is that the term on the picture in the assignment tracker entry is "gravitational field manipulation". Did the word field get dropped off because it wouldn't fit in the box?--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 13:23, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
			* In all true fans' lives, there comes a time where the producers make a decision so mind-bogglingly nonsensical, that you have to wonder if there was some sort of gas leak in their building on the day they came up with it. This is one of those.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:49, 29 November 2009 (EST)
			* One of the beautiful things about all art is that, once, made, it only partly belongs to its creator. Once let out into the world, a TV show or comic book or painting belongs almost as much to the people who watch it/read it/look at it as to the man who made/drew/painted.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:49, 29 November 2009 (EST)

	==Hmm==		==Hmm==

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	**"Matter obliteration" doesn't make anymore sense, since that'd imply he can just reduce a character to atoms or something. Plus, from a purely scientific standpoint, it's impossible. Matter can't be created nor destroyed/obliterated --''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:07, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		**"Matter obliteration" doesn't make anymore sense, since that'd imply he can just reduce a character to atoms or something. Plus, from a purely scientific standpoint, it's impossible. Matter can't be created nor destroyed/obliterated --''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:07, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	*It does make perfect sense. Yes i am aware of Matter not being destroyed very well indeed. Matter can't be created? Have you ever heard of the Big Bang by any chance? I meant obliteration in terms of obscuring or concealing - the change of shape and gravity in which the specific property has. Stephen obviously has that ability. '''Gravity has nothing to do with it thus the name for his ability is incorrect'''. --[[User:ACDC1989\|ACDC1989]] 04:16, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		*It does make perfect sense. Yes i am aware of Matter not being destroyed very well indeed. Matter can't be created? Have you ever heard of the Big Bang by any chance? I meant obliteration in terms of obscuring or concealing - the change of shape and gravity in which the specific property has. Stephen obviously has that ability. '''Gravity has nothing to do with it thus the name for his ability is incorrect'''. --[[User:ACDC1989\|ACDC1989]] 04:16, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
			*It's kind of a weird coincidence, but black holes do destroy matter (or as near as makes no difference). Black holes are 1D; most matter in our universe is 3D. When a 3D object is sucked into a 1D black hole, the rules of our universe just go flying out the window.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:44, 29 November 2009 (EST)
	**In which case he's changing the physics of the property, so "matter" is incorrect. --''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:19, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		**In which case he's changing the physics of the property, so "matter" is incorrect. --''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:19, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	* Matchu do you know what the basic element in science is? Matter. Even Stephen Hawking stated that black holes evaporate, which states the changing of matter. Whether in Physics, Biology, Chemistry or Mathematics. Matter is everywhere hence a major part of it. If a human were to go through a black hole the 'pull' would be so great it would disintergate you into a particle smaller than a light particle. You would be instantly crushed and then you will never be seen again because nothing and not even light can escape a black hole. Thus matter would be '''obscured''' and '''concealed'''. Scientists would argue that one would change in terms of the property of matter. The term '''gravitational manipulation''' is wrong ~~becuase~~ that would mean Stephen has mastery over all forms of gravity. --[[User:ACDC1989\|ACDC1989]] 04:25, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		* Matchu do you know what the basic element in science is? Matter. Even Stephen Hawking stated that black holes evaporate, which states the changing of matter. Whether in Physics, Biology, Chemistry or Mathematics. Matter is everywhere hence a major part of it. If a human were to go through a black hole the 'pull' would be so great it would disintergate you into a particle smaller than a light particle. You would be instantly crushed and then you will never be seen again because nothing and not even light can escape a black hole. Thus matter would be '''obscured''' and '''concealed'''. Scientists would argue that one would change in terms of the property of matter. The term '''gravitational manipulation''' is wrong because that would mean Stephen has mastery over all forms of gravity. --[[User:ACDC1989\|ACDC1989]] 04:25, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	** "Correct" or "incorrect", the term we will be using for Canfield's power is "gravitational manipulation". Besides the fact that it does make sense (if he creates a [[wikipedia:black hole\|black hole]], that has everything to do with gravity), it's the name given to us. Heroes Wiki is primarily a site that catalogs and archives the world of ''Heroes'', not a site that makes scientific conjectures or debates the laws of science, or even of science fiction. If the world of ''Heroes'' calls the power "gravitational manipulation", so do we. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 04:30, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		** "Correct" or "incorrect", the term we will be using for Canfield's power is "gravitational manipulation". Besides the fact that it does make sense (if he creates a [[wikipedia:black hole\|black hole]], that has everything to do with gravity), it's the name given to us. Heroes Wiki is primarily a site that catalogs and archives the world of ''Heroes'', not a site that makes scientific conjectures or debates the laws of science, or even of science fiction. If the world of ''Heroes'' calls the power "gravitational manipulation", so do we. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 04:30, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	**That's not what would happen. First you'd be "stretched" and torn apart (a process know as spaghettification, yes it's a real word) into elementary particles. What happens at the singularity is unknown. That's, of course, providing you fall into a Schwarzschild. Oh and on an offshoot, things do escape black holes; that's how we know they're there. Anyway, this random science aside is pointless, the article shouldn't be changed because we have a near-canon source on it (the tracker).--''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:33, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		**That's not what would happen. First you'd be "stretched" and torn apart (a process know as spaghettification, yes it's a real word) into elementary particles. What happens at the singularity is unknown. That's, of course, providing you fall into a Schwarzschild. Oh and on an offshoot, things do escape black holes; that's how we know they're there. Anyway, this random science aside is pointless, the article shouldn't be changed because we have a near-canon source on it (the tracker).--''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:33, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
			*If nothing could escape a black hole, then technically the entire Universe would have been completely destroyed when the first black hole formed.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 18:44, 29 November 2009 (EST)
	* Ok kk, Ryan and Matchu. I'd like to state something though. If his ability was gravitational manipulation he would manipulate and control all forms of gravity. Theoretically he the could change the weight of objects, fly, or form forcefields. Does that mean we are ~~chaning~~ 'Freezing' and 'Pyrokinesis' to temperature manipulation because that has everything to do with temperature. Or what about "Flight" - can we change that to gravitational manipulation as well? What about regeneration? How about blood or cell manipulation?--[[User:ACDC1989\|ACDC1989]] 04:39, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		* Ok kk, Ryan and Matchu. I'd like to state something though. If his ability was gravitational manipulation he would manipulate and control all forms of gravity. Theoretically he the could change the weight of objects, fly, or form forcefields. Does that mean we are chaining 'Freezing' and 'Pyrokinesis' to temperature manipulation because that has everything to do with temperature. Or what about "Flight" - can we change that to gravitational manipulation as well? What about regeneration? How about blood or cell manipulation?--[[User:ACDC1989\|ACDC1989]] 04:39, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	**I made a similar point about the name myself before under the comment of something like "eugh it's really clunky". Yeah the name sucks, but it isn't related to what the ability can do ''per se'', it's what we've got off the assignment tracker so we have a duty to stick to what is canon in our articles. --''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:40, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		**I made a similar point about the name myself before under the comment of something like "eugh it's really clunky". Yeah the name sucks, but it isn't related to what the ability can do ''per se'', it's what we've got off the assignment tracker so we have a duty to stick to what is canon in our articles. --''[[User:Matchu\|Matchu]]'' 04:40, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	*** If anybody doesn't like it, tell the writers--[[Joe Pokaski]] and [[Aron Coleite]] are always very willing to answer fan questions and respond to comments in their "[http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18423 Behind the Eclipse]" Q&A sessions. But even if the name is a bit broad (which it is), it still works. It would be absolutely impossible to create a name for an ability that deftly describes all the limits and attributes of the ability--that's why we have an entire page (sometimes two or three!) dedicated to describing and explaining the ability. Nobody is saying that Canfield can manipulate all gravity or that he floats or anything like that--he manipulates gravity in a very unique way. That doesn't mean that other power names should be changed (heck, who knows how Nathan flies--maybe he uses the Earth's magnetic fields, or maybe he just farts a whole lot to get airborne), it just means that the writing staff were kind enough to give us the name they decided upon for Canfield's ability, and we should be grateful that we have so much information about the power! Perfect, no. A true gift? Definitely. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 04:48, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		*** If anybody doesn't like it, tell the writers--[[Joe Pokaski]] and [[Aron Coleite]] are always very willing to answer fan questions and respond to comments in their "[http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18423 Behind the Eclipse]" Q&A sessions. But even if the name is a bit broad (which it is), it still works. It would be absolutely impossible to create a name for an ability that deftly describes all the limits and attributes of the ability--that's why we have an entire page (sometimes two or three!) dedicated to describing and explaining the ability. Nobody is saying that Canfield can manipulate all gravity or that he floats or anything like that--he manipulates gravity in a very unique way. That doesn't mean that other power names should be changed (heck, who knows how Nathan flies--maybe he uses the Earth's magnetic fields, or maybe he just farts a whole lot to get airborne), it just means that the writing staff were kind enough to give us the name they decided upon for Canfield's ability, and we should be grateful that we have so much information about the power! Perfect, no. A true gift? Definitely. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 04:48, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

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	* Like Ryan said above, ask the writers for their opinion on why they called it "gravitational manipulation". I must say i don't agree with the name either because it hasn't got a thing to do with gravity. But let's wait for the writers answer. --[[User:Futurepeter\|Futurepeter]] 09:56, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		* Like Ryan said above, ask the writers for their opinion on why they called it "gravitational manipulation". I must say i don't agree with the name either because it hasn't got a thing to do with gravity. But let's wait for the writers answer. --[[User:Futurepeter\|Futurepeter]] 09:56, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	** I don't see why it "makes no sense" and "hasn't got a thing to do with gravity". A black hole forms because the gravity of that space is so strong that it actually sucks everything, even light, into that space. By increasing the gravity in one spot, one can create a vortex. Theoretically, something called white hole also exists. It is where things sucked in by black holes get ejected back out. This fits perfectly from what we know about this ability - how a hole sucks everything in and why it is described as a "dimension pull". Even if it makes no sense, we still have to follow the policy, because the policy helps us name ability without speculations. [[User:Chrisyu357\|Chrisyu357]] 09:59, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		** I don't see why it "makes no sense" and "hasn't got a thing to do with gravity". A black hole forms because the gravity of that space is so strong that it actually sucks everything, even light, into that space. By increasing the gravity in one spot, one can create a vortex. Theoretically, something called white hole also exists. It is where things sucked in by black holes get ejected back out. This fits perfectly from what we know about this ability - how a hole sucks everything in and why it is described as a "dimension pull". Even if it makes no sense, we still have to follow the policy, because the policy helps us name ability without speculations. [[User:Chrisyu357\|Chrisyu357]] 09:59, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	*** Electric manipulation allows you to create, direct, and otherwise play with electricity in a near-infinite number of ways. Stephen's ability only does one thing: create vortexes. If he had gravitational manipulation, he should be able to manipulate gravity (like making something extremely heavy or light, or making someone start falling upwards/sideways). Naming this ability "gravitational manipulation" makes about as much sense as saying that technopathy is electric manipulation: there's one point in common (electricity), but they couldn't be more different.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 15:26, 27 November 2009 (EST)<br />		*** ''Electric'' manipulation allows you to create, direct, and otherwise play with electricity in a near-infinite number of ways. Stephen's ability only does one thing: create vortexes. If he had gravitational '''manipulation''', he should be able to manipulate gravity (like making something extremely heavy or light, or making someone start falling upwards/sideways). Naming this ability "gravitational manipulation" makes about as much sense as saying that technopathy is electric manipulation: there's one point in common (electricity), but they couldn't be more different.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 15:26, 27 November 2009 (EST)<br />
	*** What Chris said. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 10:46, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		*** What Chris said. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 10:46, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	*** The difference, though, is that a black hole has mass (a LOT of mass), and won't just spontaeously disappear. If a black hole decays, it releases a nasty burst of radiation in the process. There isn't really any such thing as a "white hole", to my knowledge. The description of him creating openings to other dimensions actually makes a lot more sense. --[[User:Ted C\|Ted C]] 14:48, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		*** The difference, though, is that a black hole has mass (a LOT of mass), and won't just spontaeously disappear. If a black hole decays, it releases a nasty burst of radiation in the process. There isn't really any such thing as a "white hole", to my knowledge. The description of him creating openings to other dimensions actually makes a lot more sense. --[[User:Ted C\|Ted C]] 14:48, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

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	* Like Ryan said above, ask the writers for their opinion on why they called it "gravitational manipulation". I must say i don't agree with the name either because it hasn't got a thing to do with gravity. But let's wait for the writers answer. --[[User:Futurepeter\|Futurepeter]] 09:56, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		* Like Ryan said above, ask the writers for their opinion on why they called it "gravitational manipulation". I must say i don't agree with the name either because it hasn't got a thing to do with gravity. But let's wait for the writers answer. --[[User:Futurepeter\|Futurepeter]] 09:56, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	** I don't see why it "makes no sense" and "hasn't got a thing to do with gravity". A black hole forms because the gravity of that space is so strong that it actually sucks everything, even light, into that space. By increasing the gravity in one spot, one can create a vortex. Theoretically, something called white hole also exists. It is where things sucked in by black holes get ejected back out. This fits perfectly from what we know about this ability - how a hole sucks everything in and why it is described as a "dimension pull". Even if it makes no sense, we still have to follow the policy, because the policy helps us name ability without speculations. [[User:Chrisyu357\|Chrisyu357]] 09:59, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		** I don't see why it "makes no sense" and "hasn't got a thing to do with gravity". A black hole forms because the gravity of that space is so strong that it actually sucks everything, even light, into that space. By increasing the gravity in one spot, one can create a vortex. Theoretically, something called white hole also exists. It is where things sucked in by black holes get ejected back out. This fits perfectly from what we know about this ability - how a hole sucks everything in and why it is described as a "dimension pull". Even if it makes no sense, we still have to follow the policy, because the policy helps us name ability without speculations. [[User:Chrisyu357\|Chrisyu357]] 09:59, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
			*** Electric manipulation allows you to create, direct, and otherwise play with electricity in a near-infinite number of ways. Stephen's ability only does one thing: create vortexes. If he had gravitational manipulation, he should be able to manipulate gravity (like making something extremely heavy or light, or making someone start falling upwards/sideways). Naming this ability "gravitational manipulation" makes about as much sense as saying that technopathy is electric manipulation: there's one point in common (electricity), but they couldn't be more different.--[[User:D and d 123\|D and d 123]] 15:26, 27 November 2009 (EST)<br />
	*** What Chris said. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 10:46, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		*** What Chris said. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 10:46, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
	*** The difference, though, is that a black hole has mass (a LOT of mass), and won't just spontaeously disappear. If a black hole decays, it releases a nasty burst of radiation in the process. There isn't really any such thing as a "white hole", to my knowledge. The description of him creating openings to other dimensions actually makes a lot more sense. --[[User:Ted C\|Ted C]] 14:48, 15 October 2008 (EDT)		*** The difference, though, is that a black hole has mass (a LOT of mass), and won't just spontaeously disappear. If a black hole decays, it releases a nasty burst of radiation in the process. There isn't really any such thing as a "white hole", to my knowledge. The description of him creating openings to other dimensions actually makes a lot more sense. --[[User:Ted C\|Ted C]] 14:48, 15 October 2008 (EDT)