Talk:Memory manipulation - Revision history

imported>Yoshi n1: Damian

2010-03-05T19:37:02Z

Damian

← Older revision	Revision as of 19:37, 5 March 2010
(No difference)

imported>Yoshi n1: Damian

2010-03-05T19:37:02Z

Damian

imported>Mc hammark: /* Memory projection? */

2010-02-02T22:27:05Z

Memory projection?

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	Well considering how this ability has been used so far, shouldn't this ability be named memory projection? Its been used twice to project memories onto the mirrors in the hall of mirrors. Also should it be noted that multiple can view the memories? Claire and Noah both witnessed Noah's past in [[Episode:The Wall\|The Wall]]. --{{User:Leckie/Signature 10}} 17:16, 2 February 2010 (EST)		Well considering how this ability has been used so far, shouldn't this ability be named memory projection? Its been used twice to project memories onto the mirrors in the hall of mirrors. Also should it be noted that multiple can view the memories? Claire and Noah both witnessed Noah's past in [[Episode:The Wall\|The Wall]]. --{{User:Leckie/Signature 10}} 17:16, 2 February 2010 (EST)
			*We've kinda been having this conversation on [[Talk:Damien]]. --[[User:Mc hammark\|mc_hammark]] 17:27, 2 February 2010 (EST)

imported>Leckie: /* Memory projection? */ new section

2010-02-02T22:16:35Z

Memory projection?: new section

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	* BTE said Arthur used mental manipulation. {{User:Altes/Signature}} 07:19, 14 December 2009 (EST)		* BTE said Arthur used mental manipulation. {{User:Altes/Signature}} 07:19, 14 December 2009 (EST)
	** Ah, really? Okay then. :) --[[User:Radicell\|Radicell]] 07:23, 14 December 2009 (EST)		** Ah, really? Okay then. :) --[[User:Radicell\|Radicell]] 07:23, 14 December 2009 (EST)

			== Memory projection? ==

			Well considering how this ability has been used so far, shouldn't this ability be named memory projection? Its been used twice to project memories onto the mirrors in the hall of mirrors. Also should it be noted that multiple can view the memories? Claire and Noah both witnessed Noah's past in [[Episode:The Wall\|The Wall]]. --{{User:Leckie/Signature 10}} 17:16, 2 February 2010 (EST)

imported>Altes at 10:54, 2 February 2010

2010-02-02T10:54:25Z

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	{{power names\|5\|"Memory manipulation" describes what Damien can do.}}		{{power names\|5\|"Memory manipulation" describes what Damien can do}}

	== Mental Manipulation? ==		== Mental Manipulation? ==

imported>Altes at 10:53, 2 February 2010

2010-02-02T10:53:29Z

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	{{power names\|5\|"Memory ~~restoration~~" describes what Damien ~~did~~ ~~to Sylar--he restored Sylar's memories~~}}		{{power names\|5\|"Memory manipulation" describes what Damien can do.}}

	== Mental Manipulation? ==		== Mental Manipulation? ==

imported>PJDEP at 01:10, 6 January 2010

2010-01-06T01:10:27Z

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	* BTE said Arthur used mental manipulation. {{User:Altes/Signature}} 07:19, 14 December 2009 (EST)		* BTE said Arthur used mental manipulation. {{User:Altes/Signature}} 07:19, 14 December 2009 (EST)
	** Ah, really? Okay then. :) --[[User:Radicell\|Radicell]] 07:23, 14 December 2009 (EST)		** Ah, really? Okay then. :) --[[User:Radicell\|Radicell]] 07:23, 14 December 2009 (EST)

	== Mental manipulation (again) ==

	I'm not suggesting a name change but kind of just thinking aloud right now. One argument against Damien having mental manipulation was that the Haitian claimed he could not restore memories, while Damien clearly did. The issue I have with this is that, the way I understand at least, telepathy doesn't ''erase'' memories so much as ''suppress'' them. That is, the memories were still in "Nathan"'s brain, he just couldn't access them due to Parkman's mind-bottling. Isn't that why Sylar's true personality started to slip out a little bit and made Angela ask Parkman for a tune-up? If that were true, Damien wouldn't have "restored" the memories so much as unburied them, which may be possible for the Haitian to do. Once again, not actually suggesting anything, just thinking aloud.--[[User:PJDEP\|PJDEP]] - [[User Talk:PJDEP\|Need further explanation?]] 17:05, 23 December 2009 (EST)
	*Although I appear to be talking to myself, I just want to share something interesting I found in ''It Takes a Village, Part 4''. The quote goes ''"I became one with my father's mind and for the first time, saw him -- not as a god, or a priest...but as a man. A man who loved his son, though it did not show for fear it would make him look weak. Memories, moments, hidden like jewels scattered in a muddy field. '''But I could find them'''. I could find them and '''show them to him''', in all their radiance."'' Afterwords, René's father is a different man. Now look at the bolded parts. Does it not, more or less, described EXACTLY what Damien did to Sylar? I believe so, at least. Also, much less convincing speculation, but perhaps Samuel was okay with letting Damien restore Sylar, because if the true, evolved human-killing Sylar came back, Damien would be able to block him. Anyway, just something to think about.--[[User:PJDEP\|PJDEP]] - [[User Talk:PJDEP\|Need further explanation?]] 19:56, 25 December 2009 (EST)

imported>PJDEP at 00:56, 26 December 2009

2009-12-26T00:56:21Z

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	I'm not suggesting a name change but kind of just thinking aloud right now. One argument against Damien having mental manipulation was that the Haitian claimed he could not restore memories, while Damien clearly did. The issue I have with this is that, the way I understand at least, telepathy doesn't ''erase'' memories so much as ''suppress'' them. That is, the memories were still in "Nathan"'s brain, he just couldn't access them due to Parkman's mind-bottling. Isn't that why Sylar's true personality started to slip out a little bit and made Angela ask Parkman for a tune-up? If that were true, Damien wouldn't have "restored" the memories so much as unburied them, which may be possible for the Haitian to do. Once again, not actually suggesting anything, just thinking aloud.--[[User:PJDEP\|PJDEP]] - [[User Talk:PJDEP\|Need further explanation?]] 17:05, 23 December 2009 (EST)		I'm not suggesting a name change but kind of just thinking aloud right now. One argument against Damien having mental manipulation was that the Haitian claimed he could not restore memories, while Damien clearly did. The issue I have with this is that, the way I understand at least, telepathy doesn't ''erase'' memories so much as ''suppress'' them. That is, the memories were still in "Nathan"'s brain, he just couldn't access them due to Parkman's mind-bottling. Isn't that why Sylar's true personality started to slip out a little bit and made Angela ask Parkman for a tune-up? If that were true, Damien wouldn't have "restored" the memories so much as unburied them, which may be possible for the Haitian to do. Once again, not actually suggesting anything, just thinking aloud.--[[User:PJDEP\|PJDEP]] - [[User Talk:PJDEP\|Need further explanation?]] 17:05, 23 December 2009 (EST)
			*Although I appear to be talking to myself, I just want to share something interesting I found in ''It Takes a Village, Part 4''. The quote goes ''"I became one with my father's mind and for the first time, saw him -- not as a god, or a priest...but as a man. A man who loved his son, though it did not show for fear it would make him look weak. Memories, moments, hidden like jewels scattered in a muddy field. '''But I could find them'''. I could find them and '''show them to him''', in all their radiance."'' Afterwords, René's father is a different man. Now look at the bolded parts. Does it not, more or less, described EXACTLY what Damien did to Sylar? I believe so, at least. Also, much less convincing speculation, but perhaps Samuel was okay with letting Damien restore Sylar, because if the true, evolved human-killing Sylar came back, Damien would be able to block him. Anyway, just something to think about.--[[User:PJDEP\|PJDEP]] - [[User Talk:PJDEP\|Need further explanation?]] 19:56, 25 December 2009 (EST)

imported>PJDEP at 22:05, 23 December 2009

2009-12-23T22:05:25Z

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	* BTE said Arthur used mental manipulation. {{User:Altes/Signature}} 07:19, 14 December 2009 (EST)		* BTE said Arthur used mental manipulation. {{User:Altes/Signature}} 07:19, 14 December 2009 (EST)
	** Ah, really? Okay then. :) --[[User:Radicell\|Radicell]] 07:23, 14 December 2009 (EST)		** Ah, really? Okay then. :) --[[User:Radicell\|Radicell]] 07:23, 14 December 2009 (EST)

			== Mental manipulation (again) ==

			I'm not suggesting a name change but kind of just thinking aloud right now. One argument against Damien having mental manipulation was that the Haitian claimed he could not restore memories, while Damien clearly did. The issue I have with this is that, the way I understand at least, telepathy doesn't ''erase'' memories so much as ''suppress'' them. That is, the memories were still in "Nathan"'s brain, he just couldn't access them due to Parkman's mind-bottling. Isn't that why Sylar's true personality started to slip out a little bit and made Angela ask Parkman for a tune-up? If that were true, Damien wouldn't have "restored" the memories so much as unburied them, which may be possible for the Haitian to do. Once again, not actually suggesting anything, just thinking aloud.--[[User:PJDEP\|PJDEP]] - [[User Talk:PJDEP\|Need further explanation?]] 17:05, 23 December 2009 (EST)

imported>Radicell: /* Arthur */

2009-12-14T12:23:26Z

Arthur

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	We currently list [[Arthur]] as possessing [[mental manipulation]]. This is speculative, as Arthur hasn't shown the render-unconscious and negate-powers aspects of that ability. I think we should list him as a user (or absorber) of ''this'' power instead, since it is specifically related to memories. --[[User:Radicell\|Radicell]] 07:07, 14 December 2009 (EST)		We currently list [[Arthur]] as possessing [[mental manipulation]]. This is speculative, as Arthur hasn't shown the render-unconscious and negate-powers aspects of that ability. I think we should list him as a user (or absorber) of ''this'' power instead, since it is specifically related to memories. --[[User:Radicell\|Radicell]] 07:07, 14 December 2009 (EST)
	* BTE said Arthur used mental manipulation. {{User:Altes/Signature}} 07:19, 14 December 2009 (EST)		* BTE said Arthur used mental manipulation. {{User:Altes/Signature}} 07:19, 14 December 2009 (EST)
			** Ah, really? Okay then. :) --[[User:Radicell\|Radicell]] 07:23, 14 December 2009 (EST)

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	{{power names\|5\|"Memory manipulation" describes what ~~Damien~~ can do}}		{{power names\|5\|"Memory manipulation" describes what Damian can do}}

	== Mental Manipulation? ==		== Mental Manipulation? ==

	It has not been officially stated that ~~Damien~~ possesses Mental Manipulation, but I think it would be logical. He used physical contact to enter Gabriel's mind (much like the Haitian), and, as the name suggests, manipulated Sylar's mind. As we've seen for many abilities (healing touch, space-time manipulation, telepathy, etc), ability development occurs in nearly every power, with the exception of most biological abilities. Mental Manipulation could be used for more than cerebral dampening (the Haitian can search through their memories).		It has not been officially stated that Damian possesses Mental Manipulation, but I think it would be logical. He used physical contact to enter Gabriel's mind (much like the Haitian), and, as the name suggests, manipulated Sylar's mind. As we've seen for many abilities (healing touch, space-time manipulation, telepathy, etc), ability development occurs in nearly every power, with the exception of most biological abilities. Mental Manipulation could be used for more than cerebral dampening (the Haitian can search through their memories).
	I'm not saying that this is definitely the same ability, but it's possible. What do you guys think?		I'm not saying that this is definitely the same ability, but it's possible. What do you guys think?
	--[[User:Cerebro\|Cerebro]] 20:49, 20 October 2009 (EDT)Cerebro		--[[User:Cerebro\|Cerebro]] 20:49, 20 October 2009 (EDT)Cerebro
	* Same problem was with Anna Korolenko's ability: like Haitian, she can erase memories and knock people out, but she hasn't displayed the power negating aspect. Neither has ~~Damien~~, so his ability shoudn't be MM. Also, the Haitian claims he cannot restore memories. {{User:Altes/Signature}}		* Same problem was with Anna Korolenko's ability: like Haitian, she can erase memories and knock people out, but she hasn't displayed the power negating aspect. Neither has Damian, so his ability shoudn't be MM. Also, the Haitian claims he cannot restore memories. {{User:Altes/Signature}}
	:So far, we are shown that he could only bring back forgotten memories and based on what Samuel said to Sylar, "''In his hands, your true memories will be returned''". Shouldn't a consensus be made for this?--{{User:NiveKJ13/sig1}} 06:28, 21 October 2009 (EDT)		:So far, we are shown that he could only bring back forgotten memories and based on what Samuel said to Sylar, "''In his hands, your true memories will be returned''". Shouldn't a consensus be made for this?--{{User:NiveKJ13/sig1}} 06:28, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
	::The Hatian said he couldn't restore memories that he erased. Right before his father tried killing him, he brought back many of the memories his father had naturaly forgotten. He said it was like pulling jewels and gemstones out of a muddy field or something. So yes, MM has restore memories in some fashion. Since Sylar's murders were never erased by the hatian, someone with MM could have potentialy brought them back to im, so damein might have MM.--[[User:Piemanmoo\|Piemanmoo]] 01:59, 29 October 2009 (EDT)		::The Hatian said he couldn't restore memories that he erased. Right before his father tried killing him, he brought back many of the memories his father had naturaly forgotten. He said it was like pulling jewels and gemstones out of a muddy field or something. So yes, MM has restore memories in some fashion. Since Sylar's murders were never erased by the hatian, someone with MM could have potentialy brought them back to im, so damein might have MM.--[[User:Piemanmoo\|Piemanmoo]] 01:59, 29 October 2009 (EDT)
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	#Agree with the above. (presently). --[[User:Mc hammark\|mc_hammark]] 12:49, 21 October 2009 (EDT)		#Agree with the above. (presently). --[[User:Mc hammark\|mc_hammark]] 12:49, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
	#Sounds fine for now -- {{User:Jenx222/sig}} 13:09, 21 October 2009 (EDT)		#Sounds fine for now -- {{User:Jenx222/sig}} 13:09, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
	#~~Damien~~ restored Sylar's memories, and "returning" sounds like memories were in ~~Damien~~'s possession, and he gave them back. {{User:Altes/Signature}}		#Damian restored Sylar's memories, and "returning" sounds like memories were in Damian's possession, and he gave them back. {{User:Altes/Signature}}
	#Nothing to say that hasn't already been said. {{User:Psilaq Remake/sig}} 16:41, 21 October 2009 (EDT)		#Nothing to say that hasn't already been said. {{User:Psilaq Remake/sig}} 16:41, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
	#Sounds good to me, unless something is clarified that majorly changes the definition of his power. --[[User:V2Blast\|V2Blast]] 00:20, 22 October 2009 (EDT)		#Sounds good to me, unless something is clarified that majorly changes the definition of his power. --[[User:V2Blast\|V2Blast]] 00:20, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
	#I think this is a good name...until/unless we learn more. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 00:27, 22 October 2009 (EDT)		#I think this is a good name...until/unless we learn more. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 00:27, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
	#I think this is the (almost) perfect name for ~~Damien~~'s ability. Sounds correct, too! --[[User:Hiroman\|Hiroman]] 16:06, 27 October 2009 (EDT)		#I think this is the (almost) perfect name for Damian's ability. Sounds correct, too! --[[User:Hiroman\|Hiroman]] 16:06, 27 October 2009 (EDT)
	*I don't like this name. The memories were NOT restored, they were projected onto the screens. They appeared alien to Sylar. Sylar still isn't Sylar otherwise he wouldn't have rejected them they way he did. This name is misleading. [[User:Getbrett\|Getbrett]] 02:05, 22 October 2009 (EDT)		*I don't like this name. The memories were NOT restored, they were projected onto the screens. They appeared alien to Sylar. Sylar still isn't Sylar otherwise he wouldn't have rejected them they way he did. This name is misleading. [[User:Getbrett\|Getbrett]] 02:05, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
	*Actually they are restored, Sylar states, ''"All those murders. All those memories in my mind but I cannot believe that they're mine."'' The reason he rejects them is because he doesn't understand ''why'' he killed them. He hasn't experienced the hunger. Yet. --[[User:Mc hammark\|mc_hammark]] 06:06, 22 October 2009 (EDT)		*Actually they are restored, Sylar states, ''"All those murders. All those memories in my mind but I cannot believe that they're mine."'' The reason he rejects them is because he doesn't understand ''why'' he killed them. He hasn't experienced the hunger. Yet. --[[User:Mc hammark\|mc_hammark]] 06:06, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
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	1. This phrase, "project" is actually used on this ability's page already. So why not call it memory projection as we have seen the memories are in fact projected and "re-lived". {{user:AgentJordan/Sig}}		1. This phrase, "project" is actually used on this ability's page already. So why not call it memory projection as we have seen the memories are in fact projected and "re-lived". {{user:AgentJordan/Sig}}

	2. Simply calling it memory restoration does not fully describe the effects of ~~Damien~~'s ability. He did not even actually restore Sylar's memories (as in, make Sylar remember them), as much as take what Sylar did not remember and project it onto a screen so he could see it. In the House of Mirrors he was terrified of what he saw, not what he remembered. I think this name is better. [[User:Swmystery\|Swm]] 13:49, 22 October 2009 (EDT)		2. Simply calling it memory restoration does not fully describe the effects of Damian's ability. He did not even actually restore Sylar's memories (as in, make Sylar remember them), as much as take what Sylar did not remember and project it onto a screen so he could see it. In the House of Mirrors he was terrified of what he saw, not what he remembered. I think this name is better. [[User:Swmystery\|Swm]] 13:49, 22 October 2009 (EDT)

	I don't oppose it, out of the current three names, the only one I don't like is memory returning. [[User:Intuitive Empath\|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath\|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath\|Contributions]] 13:51, 22 October 2009 (EDT)		I don't oppose it, out of the current three names, the only one I don't like is memory returning. [[User:Intuitive Empath\|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath\|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath\|Contributions]] 13:51, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
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	*Going on that line, I'd say he might be able to jumpstart abilities, if a person has them, by accessing the part of the brain that controls it. [[User:Intuitive Empath\|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath\|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath\|Contributions]] 14:54, 21 October 2009 (EDT)		*Going on that line, I'd say he might be able to jumpstart abilities, if a person has them, by accessing the part of the brain that controls it. [[User:Intuitive Empath\|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath\|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath\|Contributions]] 14:54, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
	**Were the memories that Sylar saw in the hall of mirrors not ones that aren't even in his head right now but rather are in Matt Parkman's head with the part of Sylar that is in him? - Colin		**Were the memories that Sylar saw in the hall of mirrors not ones that aren't even in his head right now but rather are in Matt Parkman's head with the part of Sylar that is in him? - Colin
	***The memories are clearly in Sylar's body, otherwise ~~Damien~~ wouldn't have been able to make them appear in the mirrors. I wonder why no memory belonging to Nathan appeared, Sylar got some of those with clairsentience for weeks. [[User:Intuitive Empath\|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath\|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath\|Contributions]] 17:46, 21 October 2009 (EDT)		***The memories are clearly in Sylar's body, otherwise Damian wouldn't have been able to make them appear in the mirrors. I wonder why no memory belonging to Nathan appeared, Sylar got some of those with clairsentience for weeks. [[User:Intuitive Empath\|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath\|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath\|Contributions]] 17:46, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
	****I think ~~Damien~~ can pinpoint a memory that he wanted to show, Samuel wanted the old Sylar back that's why he made him see the memory of Sylar and his victim.--[[User:Darkfiremaster13\|Darkfiremaster13]] 05:19, 27 October 2009 (EDT)		****I think Damian can pinpoint a memory that he wanted to show, Samuel wanted the old Sylar back that's why he made him see the memory of Sylar and his victim.--[[User:Darkfiremaster13\|Darkfiremaster13]] 05:19, 27 October 2009 (EDT)
	*Maybe it doesn't bring back/display memories that were put in him by other means - only his "true memories", as Samuel said. --[[User:V2Blast\|V2Blast]] 00:19, 22 October 2009 (EDT)		*Maybe it doesn't bring back/display memories that were put in him by other means - only his "true memories", as Samuel said. --[[User:V2Blast\|V2Blast]] 00:19, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
	** He should've seen Nathan's death then, and if he thinks this is who he is, he should've wondered how the man who looks like him killed the one who he thinks himself to be. {{User:Altes/Signature}}		** He should've seen Nathan's death then, and if he thinks this is who he is, he should've wondered how the man who looks like him killed the one who he thinks himself to be. {{User:Altes/Signature}}
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	*** He touched Sylar, and he saw his past in the mirrors. Seems to me like Sylar himself projected his memories. But if the memories didn't return, there would be nothing to project... {{User:Altes/Signature}}		*** He touched Sylar, and he saw his past in the mirrors. Seems to me like Sylar himself projected his memories. But if the memories didn't return, there would be nothing to project... {{User:Altes/Signature}}
	**** Sylar doesn't ''have'' that sort of ability. I think he was just projecting what was in Sylar's mind the whole time. Hence Memory Projection.--[[User:WarGrowlmon18\|WarGrowlmon18]] 11:43, 6 November 2009 (EST)		**** Sylar doesn't ''have'' that sort of ability. I think he was just projecting what was in Sylar's mind the whole time. Hence Memory Projection.--[[User:WarGrowlmon18\|WarGrowlmon18]] 11:43, 6 November 2009 (EST)
	***** I'm not saying Sylar can project his memories onto mirrors, I mean that ~~Damien~~ only awoke his memories, and Sylar saw them like that. {{User:Altes/Signature}}		***** I'm not saying Sylar can project his memories onto mirrors, I mean that Damian only awoke his memories, and Sylar saw them like that. {{User:Altes/Signature}}
	****** In the latest episode it's '''definitively''' shown that Sylar does not have his memories restored. This name is therefore incorrect. --[[User:Getbrett\|Getbrett]] 05:07, 10 November 2009 (EST)		****** In the latest episode it's '''definitively''' shown that Sylar does not have his memories restored. This name is therefore incorrect. --[[User:Getbrett\|Getbrett]] 05:07, 10 November 2009 (EST)