Theory:Space-time manipulation - Revision history

imported>Iheartheroes at 21:42, 1 September 2015

2015-09-01T21:42:26Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:42, 1 September 2015
(No difference)

imported>Iheartheroes at 21:42, 1 September 2015

2015-09-01T21:42:26Z

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	{{note}} Neither [[Arthur Petrelli]] nor [[Peter Petrelli]] showed signs of a tumor, and [[Hiro Nakamura (explosion future)\|Future Hiro]] seemed perfectly healthy. This could be because neither Arthur nor Peter used time traveling as extensively as [[Hiro]].<br />		{{note}} Neither [[Arthur Petrelli]] nor [[Peter Petrelli]] showed signs of a tumor, and [[Hiro Nakamura (explosion future)\|Future Hiro]] seemed perfectly healthy. This could be because neither Arthur nor Peter used time traveling as extensively as [[Hiro]].<br />
	:{{minus}} Arthur and Peter have [[Claire]]'s healing ability, which would heal the brain tumor		:{{minus}} Arthur and Peter have [[Claire]]'s healing ability, which would heal the brain tumor
			::{{minus}} Noah pointed out in Season Four that Claire could not save Hiro because her power makes tissue grow and it would only make the tumor worse.
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	\| "Freezing" time doesn't stop time for the entire world, but speeds time up for the user until the point where they're moving so fast the entire world appears to have stopped around them. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} It would take an absurd amount of power to stop time for the entire earth, but it wouldn't take nearly as much to speed time up for the user, which would essentially achieve the same effect.<br />		\| "Freezing" time doesn't stop time for the entire world, but speeds time up for the user until the point where they're moving so fast the entire world appears to have stopped around them. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} It would take an absurd amount of power to stop time for the entire earth, but it wouldn't take nearly as much to speed time up for the user, which would essentially achieve the same effect.<br />

imported>Usernametook at 21:04, 1 September 2015

2015-09-01T21:04:50Z

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	:{{note}} Maybe Arnold also did that.<br />		:{{note}} Maybe Arnold also did that.<br />
	{{note}} Neither [[Arthur Petrelli]] nor [[Peter Petrelli]] showed signs of a tumor, and [[Hiro Nakamura (explosion future)\|Future Hiro]] seemed perfectly healthy. This could be because neither Arthur nor Peter used time traveling as extensively as [[Hiro]].<br />		{{note}} Neither [[Arthur Petrelli]] nor [[Peter Petrelli]] showed signs of a tumor, and [[Hiro Nakamura (explosion future)\|Future Hiro]] seemed perfectly healthy. This could be because neither Arthur nor Peter used time traveling as extensively as [[Hiro]].<br />
			:{{minus}} Arthur and Peter have [[Claire]]'s healing ability, which would heal the brain tumor
	\|-		\|-
	\| "Freezing" time doesn't stop time for the entire world, but speeds time up for the user until the point where they're moving so fast the entire world appears to have stopped around them. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} It would take an absurd amount of power to stop time for the entire earth, but it wouldn't take nearly as much to speed time up for the user, which would essentially achieve the same effect.<br />		\| "Freezing" time doesn't stop time for the entire world, but speeds time up for the user until the point where they're moving so fast the entire world appears to have stopped around them. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} It would take an absurd amount of power to stop time for the entire earth, but it wouldn't take nearly as much to speed time up for the user, which would essentially achieve the same effect.<br />

imported>Tsl3161991 at 18:29, 1 May 2012

2012-05-01T18:29:46Z

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	{{minus}} Ability wouldn't extend if its holder doesn't touch another person.<br />		{{minus}} Ability wouldn't extend if its holder doesn't touch another person.<br />
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			\| Space-time manipulation makes the user immune to the laws of time and space. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} It is impossible for a person to exist in the same timeline as their future or past self, yet both Peter and Hiro have existed with their future selves in the same timeline. Without space-time manipulation, if someone were to somehow travel through time, the version of them from that timeline and all of their decendants up to that point would disappear because they would then exist at that timeline instead of their original timeline.<br />
	\|}		\|}
	{{theorybar}}		{{theorybar}}

imported>Altes: when Hiro returned from the Carnival 14 years ago, Ando didn't remeber Kimiko used to hate him; Hiro did change the history a few times

2010-06-02T10:15:03Z

when Hiro returned from the Carnival 14 years ago, Ando didn't remeber Kimiko used to hate him; Hiro did change the history a few times

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	{{minus}} Hiro eventually did save Charlie's life (''[[Once Upon a Time in Texas]]'').<br />		{{minus}} Hiro eventually did save Charlie's life (''[[Once Upon a Time in Texas]]'').<br />
	:{{note}} This once again hints that the "cosmic authority" are indeed the writers.<br/>		:{{note}} This once again hints that the "cosmic authority" are indeed the writers.<br/>
	\|-
	\| [[Hiro]]'s presence in the past manipulates objects, but not people's memories. \|\| None \|\| {{minus}} [[Charlie]] appears to know Hiro since she says she likes what he does when he blinks. (''[[Seven Minutes to Midnight]]'')<br />
	{{plus}} [[Charlie]] still had a Japanese phrasebook in the present after Hiro gave it to her in the past. Yet Charlie did not seem to remember Hiro when he first came to [[Odessa]] in the present nor did any of Hiro's co-workers at the diner recognize him despite his having worked there six months earlier. The change in the photograph of Charlie's birthday party also shows an object recording a historical event that nobody remembered.<br />
	{{minus}} However, when Ando shows the photo to [[Lynette]], she does recognize Hiro, telling him "they were tight". This suggests the common comic book device of a second time dimension - the timeline is changed only "after" the time-traveler goes back in time to change them.<br />
	:{{note}} However, this would raise the question of who gave Charlie the Japanese phrase book "before" Hiro traveled back in time. This suggests that the timeline can be changed, but not in a way that would give the time-traveler no reason to travel back in time (which would create a paradox).<br />
	:{{note}} It is possible (though unlikely) that "before" Hiro went back in time, someone else had given Charlie a Japanese phrase book for her birthday.<br />
	{{minus}} The Novel [[Saving Charlie]] explains that Hiro went back in time six months and lived with and fell in love with [[Charlie Andrews]] after her death. It was built around the scenes seen in Fallout, Nothing to Hide and Six Months Ago. In it [[Hiro]] admits to Charlie his true identity and his powers and after a while tells her when and how she will die. Charlie accepts this and convinces a protesting Hiro that it is her destiny as it is his to stop the bomb. She leaves for work the next day, the day when she meets present day Hiro and then is killed by Sylar. The next day Hiro walks back to the diner and to Ando it seems as if he has been gone a day, not six months. Charlie knew she would die. <br />
	{{minus}} [[Adam Monroe]] remembers Hiro from his trip to feudal Japan.<br />
	:{{note}} We haven't seen Adam before Hiro went to 1671, so we can't be sure.<br />
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	\| There is no predestination in the world of ''Heroes''. \|\| [[Hiro]]'s trip to the past appears to have actually changed past events from his perspective. (''[[Six Months Ago]]'') \|\| {{plus}} If Hiro's trip to the past to try and save Charlie were meant to have happened, then all of his former co-workers at the diner (to say nothing of Charlie herself) should have recognized Hiro when he came into the diner for the first time, six months after he had been working there.<br />		\| There is no predestination in the world of ''Heroes''. \|\| [[Hiro]]'s trip to the past appears to have actually changed past events from his perspective. (''[[Six Months Ago]]'') \|\| {{plus}} If Hiro's trip to the past to try and save Charlie were meant to have happened, then all of his former co-workers at the diner (to say nothing of Charlie herself) should have recognized Hiro when he came into the diner for the first time, six months after he had been working there.<br />
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	{{note}} However, although some events can be changed, it seems that others (such as Charlie's death at the hands of Sylar) are immutable.<br />		{{note}} However, although some events can be changed, it seems that others (such as Charlie's death at the hands of Sylar) are immutable.<br />
	{{minus}} But that changed, initially she was killed by Sylar, after Hiro went back in time, she refused to go to Japan because she had an inoperable aneurysm in her brain. He could change how she died, because that was the only reason for him going back in time.<br />		{{minus}} But that changed, initially she was killed by Sylar, after Hiro went back in time, she refused to go to Japan because she had an inoperable aneurysm in her brain. He could change how she died, because that was the only reason for him going back in time.<br />
	{{plus}} [[~~Future~~ Hiro\|Future Hiro's]] trip to the past allowed [[Claire]] to live five years longer following [[Sylar~~\|Sylar~~'s]] first attempt to kill her. This shows that the timestream can be altered. (''[[Five Years Gone]]'')		{{plus}} [[Hiro Nakamura (explosion future)\|Future Hiro]]'s trip to the past allowed [[Claire]] to live five years longer following [[Sylar]]'s first attempt to kill her. This shows that the timestream can be altered. (''[[Five Years Gone]]'')
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	\| A person with the power of space-time manipulation cannot have their memories altered by a change in their own personal timeline. In short, they are immune to the effects of a paradox changing time and if a person changes the past, their own memories of what things were like before the change will remain unaltered. The one exception to this is if they die in another time. \|\| [[Future Hiro]] traveled back to talk to [[Peter]] to tell him what to do to save [[Claire]]. (''[[Hiros]]'')		\| A person with the power of space-time manipulation cannot have their memories altered by a change in their own personal timeline. In short, they are immune to the effects of a paradox changing time and if a person changes the past, their own memories of what things were like before the change will remain unaltered. The one exception to this is if they die in another time. \|\| [[Hiro Nakamura (explosion future)\|Future Hiro]] traveled back to talk to [[Peter]] to tell him what to do to save [[Claire]]. (''[[Hiros]]'')
	He must have figured that Peter, who could copy his power, would remain immune to the affects of any paradox Future Hiro caused by going back in time to deliver the warning. Hiro's memories of what the [[~~Dark~~ ~~Future~~]] was like before he went to talk to [[Peter]] remained unchanged, though some details about the past did change. (''[[Five Years Gone]]'')		He must have figured that Peter, who could copy his power, would remain immune to the affects of any paradox Future Hiro caused by going back in time to deliver the warning. Hiro's memories of what the [[explosion future]] was like before he went to talk to [[Peter]] remained unchanged, though some details about the past did change. (''[[Five Years Gone]]'')
	\|\| {{plus}} This would explain why Future Hiro needed to find an exact point to talk to Peter, before they "met for the first time" in the Dark Future.<br />		\|\| {{plus}} This would explain why Future Hiro needed to find an exact point to talk to Peter, before they "met for the first time" in the Dark Future.<br />
	{{plus}} It would also explain why he chose Peter - who he knew would gain his power and become similarly immune to the effects of paradox.<br />		{{plus}} It would also explain why he chose Peter - who he knew would gain his power and become similarly immune to the effects of paradox.<br />
	{{plus}} It would also explain why [[Sylar]], disguised as Nathan, would be so insistent on killing [[Hiro]] - especially after it was confirmed to him that Hiro ''could'' travel through time.<br />		{{plus}} It would also explain why [[Sylar]], disguised as Nathan, would be so insistent on killing [[Hiro]] - especially after it was confirmed to him that Hiro ''could'' travel through time.<br />
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	\| Future Hiro could only change the ~~time line~~ by warning his past self. \|\| Since a traveler from the future cannot change the past in a way that would prevent him going to the past to change it, Hiro found it necessary to imbue one in the present with the knowledge that could change that. \|\| {{plus}} Hiro is at least somewhat free of normal space/time continuum rules. But not completely. By learning of the future and then going back to his original time, Hiro retained free will and can now actively work to change to future.<br />		\| Future Hiro could only change the timeline by warning his past self. \|\| Since a traveler from the future cannot change the past in a way that would prevent him going to the past to change it, Hiro found it necessary to imbue one in the present with the knowledge that could change that. \|\| {{plus}} Hiro is at least somewhat free of normal space/time continuum rules. But not completely. By learning of the future and then going back to his original time, Hiro retained free will and can now actively work to change to future.<br />
	{{plus}} This helps with the "rift" problem that Hiro alluded to with Peter. By traveling to Peter and Hiro exclusively, beings who possessed his power and by extension his immunity to the "rules", he was able to change the future and quite possibly, eradicate his existence. Because the past Hiro knew of the future, the knowledge remained in place even without the Future Hiro having to necessarily exist.<br />		{{plus}} This helps with the "rift" problem that Hiro alluded to with Peter. By traveling to Peter and Hiro exclusively, beings who possessed his power and by extension his immunity to the "rules", he was able to change the future and quite possibly, eradicate his existence. Because the past Hiro knew of the future, the knowledge remained in place even without the Future Hiro having to necessarily exist.<br />
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	\| If [[Hiro]] actually rewound time rather than teleporting, he would be able to change the past. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} When [[Charlie]] was killed, if [[Hiro]] rewound the time, he would be there to prevent it.<br />		\| If [[Hiro]] actually rewound time rather than teleporting, he would be able to change the past. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} When [[Charlie]] was killed, if [[Hiro]] rewound the time, he would be there to prevent it.<br />
	{{plus}} It appears that Hiro can rewind time around localized objects such as a clock or a bullet fired at him.<br />		{{plus}} It appears that Hiro can rewind time around localized objects such as a clock or a bullet fired at him.<br />
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	\| The timeline can't be changed. All the time travelers will travel to "when" they must travel. The destiny is already written and can't be changed. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} Despite all efforts from [[Hiro]], he couldn't save [[Charlie]].<br />
	{{plus}} Hiro was meant to be [[Takezo Kensei]], the stories that young Hiro listen was of him being Kensei.<br />
	:{{minus}} Kensei already existed, Hiro only made history know him as he did.<br />
	:{{plus}} The ancient artworks of Kensei showed an Asian man not a Caucasian.<br />
	::{{note}} There are many times where artwork shows the artist's perception of a historical figure and it may not be their actual appearance, such as many pictures of Jesus Christ depicting him as Caucasian even though he was born to a Middle Eastern mother.<br />
	{{minus}} Hiro from explosion future said to Peter he was risking a rift. (''[[Hiros]]'')<br />
	{{minus}} Hiro time traveled fourteen years into the past and prevented Kimiko from developing a disliking of Ando. (''[[Jump, Push, Fall]]'')<br />
	{{minus}} In ''[[Once Upon a Time in Texas]]'', Hiro worked really hard to keep the timeline intact.<br />
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	\| Since this ability allows user to bend space, they can perform [[flight]]. \|\| None \|\| {{note}} A space-time manipulator can possibly move from one location to another without teleporting, but rather moving themselves all the way.<br />		\| Since this ability allows user to bend space, they can perform [[flight]]. \|\| None \|\| {{note}} A space-time manipulator can possibly move from one location to another without teleporting, but rather moving themselves all the way.<br />
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	\| Travel through time eventually causes a fatal brain tumor. \|\| [[Arnold]] died of a tumor and Hiro has been diagnosed with one. \|\| {{note}} [[Samuel]] states that "his [Arnold's] body couldn't take the strain". (''[[Once Upon a Time in Texas]]'')<br />		\| Travel through time eventually causes a fatal brain tumor. \|\| [[Arnold]] died of a tumor and Hiro has been diagnosed with one. \|\| {{note}} [[Samuel]] states that "his [Arnold's] body couldn't take the strain". (''[[Once Upon a Time in Texas]]'')<br />
	:{{minus}} Arnold was murdered by Samuel. ([[Bloodlines, Part 2]])<br />		:{{minus}} Arnold was murdered by Samuel. (''[[Bloodlines, Part 2]]'')<br />
	{{minus}} Hiro got the tumor before he could time travel again.<br />		{{minus}} Hiro got the tumor before he could time travel again.<br />
	{{minus}} Masi Oka said in an interview that Hiro got the tumor because he took others into frozen time, which overloaded his brain.<br />		{{minus}} Masi Oka said in an interview that Hiro got the tumor because he took others into frozen time, which overloaded his brain.<br />
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	:{{note}} "Haste" is the name of a magic spell found in many fantasy role playing games, which allows the target of the spell to move faster. This would of course mean that this person would perceive the world around him in slow motion. <br />		:{{note}} "Haste" is the name of a magic spell found in many fantasy role playing games, which allows the target of the spell to move faster. This would of course mean that this person would perceive the world around him in slow motion. <br />
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	\| If a person possesses both space-time manipulation and [[telekinesis]], they'd be able to teleport other people without physical contact. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} With [[telekinesis]], one can have a grasp over people and objects without physical contact.<br />		\| If a person possesses both space-time manipulation and [[telekinesis]], they'd be able to teleport other people without physical contact. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} With telekinesis, one can have a grasp over people and objects without physical contact.<br />
	:{{plus}} It can also affect many targets at once.<br />		:{{plus}} It can also affect many targets at once.<br />
	{{minus}} Ability wouldn't extend if its holder doesn't touch another person.<br />		{{minus}} Ability wouldn't extend if its holder doesn't touch another person.<br />

imported>Aserraric at 20:13, 16 May 2010

2010-05-16T20:13:12Z

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	:{{plus}} If he sped up time around him enough, for all intents and purposes he would have "frozen" time all over the world, if he perceived himself to be moving at a normal speed.<br />		:{{plus}} If he sped up time around him enough, for all intents and purposes he would have "frozen" time all over the world, if he perceived himself to be moving at a normal speed.<br />
	{{plus}} In a [http://blog.nbc.com/hiro_blog/2007/01/the_sword.php blog post] Hiro (when explaining why in [[Godsend]] he appeared to be only slowing down time as opposed to stopping it) says, "Instead of Stop, I casted Haste". The term "Haste" implies that time was accelerated, not slowed down.<br />		{{plus}} In a [http://blog.nbc.com/hiro_blog/2007/01/the_sword.php blog post] Hiro (when explaining why in [[Godsend]] he appeared to be only slowing down time as opposed to stopping it) says, "Instead of Stop, I casted Haste". The term "Haste" implies that time was accelerated, not slowed down.<br />
			:{{note}} "Haste" is the name of a magic spell found in many fantasy role playing games, which allows the target of the spell to move faster. This would of course mean that this person would perceive the world around him in slow motion. <br />
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	\| If a person possesses both space-time manipulation and [[telekinesis]], they'd be able to teleport other people without physical contact. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} With [[telekinesis]], one can have a grasp over people and objects without physical contact.<br />		\| If a person possesses both space-time manipulation and [[telekinesis]], they'd be able to teleport other people without physical contact. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} With [[telekinesis]], one can have a grasp over people and objects without physical contact.<br />

imported>Altes at 07:33, 3 March 2010

2010-03-03T07:33:45Z

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	\| If a person possesses both space-time manipulation and [[telekinesis]], they'd be able to teleport other people without physical contact. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} With [[telekinesis]], one can have a grasp over people and objects without physical contact.<br />		\| If a person possesses both space-time manipulation and [[telekinesis]], they'd be able to teleport other people without physical contact. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} With [[telekinesis]], one can have a grasp over people and objects without physical contact.<br />
	:{{plus}} It can also affect many targets at once.<br />		:{{plus}} It can also affect many targets at once.<br />
			{{minus}} Ability wouldn't extend if its holder doesn't touch another person.<br />
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	\|}		\|}

imported>Intuitive Empath: rewording

2010-03-02T17:04:09Z

rewording

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:04, 2 March 2010
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	{{plus}} In a [http://blog.nbc.com/hiro_blog/2007/01/the_sword.php blog post] Hiro (when explaining why in [[Godsend]] he appeared to be only slowing down time as opposed to stopping it) says, "Instead of Stop, I casted Haste". The term "Haste" implies that time was accelerated, not slowed down.<br />		{{plus}} In a [http://blog.nbc.com/hiro_blog/2007/01/the_sword.php blog post] Hiro (when explaining why in [[Godsend]] he appeared to be only slowing down time as opposed to stopping it) says, "Instead of Stop, I casted Haste". The term "Haste" implies that time was accelerated, not slowed down.<br />
	\|-		\|-
	\| If space-time manipulation and [[TK]] ~~would be used together by one person~~, ~~the holder would~~ be able to teleport ~~multiple~~ people without ~~touching~~ ~~them~~. \|\| None. \|\| {{plus}}With [[TK]], ~~it's~~ ~~able to~~ ~~touch~~ a ~~person~~ ~~without~~ ~~any~~ physical contact.<br />		\| If a person possesses both space-time manipulation and [[telekinesis]], they'd be able to teleport other people without physical contact. \|\| None \|\| {{plus}} With [[telekinesis]], one can have a grasp over people and objects without physical contact.<br />
	{{plus}}~~With~~ ~~[[TK]],~~ ~~it's~~ ~~able~~ to ~~touch~~ ~~multiple objects~~ at once.<br />		:{{plus}} It can also affect many targets at once.<br />
	\|-		\|-
	\|}		\|}

imported>Yoshi n1 at 16:57, 2 March 2010

2010-03-02T16:57:27Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:57, 2 March 2010
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	:{{plus}} If he sped up time around him enough, for all intents and purposes he would have "frozen" time all over the world, if he perceived himself to be moving at a normal speed.<br />		:{{plus}} If he sped up time around him enough, for all intents and purposes he would have "frozen" time all over the world, if he perceived himself to be moving at a normal speed.<br />
	{{plus}} In a [http://blog.nbc.com/hiro_blog/2007/01/the_sword.php blog post] Hiro (when explaining why in [[Godsend]] he appeared to be only slowing down time as opposed to stopping it) says, "Instead of Stop, I casted Haste". The term "Haste" implies that time was accelerated, not slowed down.<br />		{{plus}} In a [http://blog.nbc.com/hiro_blog/2007/01/the_sword.php blog post] Hiro (when explaining why in [[Godsend]] he appeared to be only slowing down time as opposed to stopping it) says, "Instead of Stop, I casted Haste". The term "Haste" implies that time was accelerated, not slowed down.<br />
			\|-
			\| If space-time manipulation and [[TK]] would be used together by one person, the holder would be able to teleport multiple people without touching them. \|\| None. \|\| {{plus}}With [[TK]], it's able to touch a person without any physical contact.<br />
			{{plus}}With [[TK]], it's able to touch multiple objects at once.<br />
	\|-		\|-
	\|}		\|}

imported>D and d 123 at 16:28, 30 December 2009

2009-12-30T16:28:29Z

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	\| Travel through time eventually causes a fatal brain tumor. \|\| [[Arnold]] died of a tumor and Hiro has been diagnosed with one. \|\| {{note}} [[Samuel]] states that "his [Arnold's] body couldn't take the strain". (''[[Once Upon a Time in Texas]]'')<br />		\| Travel through time eventually causes a fatal brain tumor. \|\| [[Arnold]] died of a tumor and Hiro has been diagnosed with one. \|\| {{note}} [[Samuel]] states that "his [Arnold's] body couldn't take the strain". (''[[Once Upon a Time in Texas]]'')<br />
			:{{minus}} Arnold was murdered by Samuel. ([[Bloodlines, Part 2]])<br />
	{{minus}} Hiro got the tumor before he could time travel again.<br />		{{minus}} Hiro got the tumor before he could time travel again.<br />
	{{minus}} Masi Oka said in an interview that Hiro got the tumor because he took others into frozen time, which overloaded his brain.<br />		{{minus}} Masi Oka said in an interview that Hiro got the tumor because he took others into frozen time, which overloaded his brain.<br />