Theory talk:Time travel - Revision history

imported>Kalaong: /* Time has torsion? */

2009-06-13T21:26:50Z

Time has torsion?

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:26, 13 June 2009
(No difference)

imported>Kalaong: /* Time has torsion? */

2009-06-13T21:26:50Z

Time has torsion?

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:26, 13 June 2009
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	== Time has [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_(mechanics) torsion]? ==		== Time has [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_(mechanics) torsion]? ==

	Events can only be altered by observers acting or using information gained well in advance of or well after their occurrence. [[Hiro]]'s first attempt to stop [[The Explosion]] failed miserably, resulting in the [[Explosion Future]]. Only by making a careful change after five years had passed did he succeed. [[Usutu]] beat him like a drum when he started making sixty-second jumps. As for [[Peter]]'s jump, ''it wasn't supposed to work!'' The writer's strike cut the season short, so they couldn't do the containment arc. [[Precognition]] works the same way - [[Matt]] keeps painting stuff only days or even just ''minutes'' away - meaning all he can do is watch it coming.		Events can only be altered by observers acting or using information gained well in advance of or well after their occurrence. Only the passage of time permits time to be altered. [[Hiro]]'s first attempt to stop [[The Explosion]] failed miserably, resulting in the [[Explosion Future]]. Only by making a careful change after five years had passed did he succeed. [[Usutu]] beat him like a drum when he started making sixty-second jumps. As for [[Peter]]'s jump, ''it wasn't supposed to work!'' The writer's strike cut the season short, so they couldn't do the containment arc. [[Precognition]] works the same way - [[Matt]] keeps painting stuff only days or even just ''minutes'' away - meaning all he can do is watch it coming.

imported>Kalaong: /* Where is the quotes derived from and who said it? */

2009-04-05T14:53:27Z

Where is the quotes derived from and who said it?

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:53, 5 April 2009
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	Please answer me now!!!!!!!		Please answer me now!!!!!!!

			== Time has [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_(mechanics) torsion]? ==

			Events can only be altered by observers acting or using information gained well in advance of or well after their occurrence. [[Hiro]]'s first attempt to stop [[The Explosion]] failed miserably, resulting in the [[Explosion Future]]. Only by making a careful change after five years had passed did he succeed. [[Usutu]] beat him like a drum when he started making sixty-second jumps. As for [[Peter]]'s jump, ''it wasn't supposed to work!'' The writer's strike cut the season short, so they couldn't do the containment arc. [[Precognition]] works the same way - [[Matt]] keeps painting stuff only days or even just ''minutes'' away - meaning all he can do is watch it coming.

imported>Matk: /* Where is the quotes derived from and who said it? */

2009-03-12T01:36:13Z

Where is the quotes derived from and who said it?

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:36, 12 March 2009
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	"However, we humans do not perceive time flowing in both directions. For us, the arrow of time points "forward". We have a memory of where we have been, but no perception of what we are going to do; we can only perceive the probability of events that will occur as derived from our current conditions."		"However, we humans do not perceive time flowing in both directions. For us, the arrow of time points "forward". We have a memory of where we have been, but no perception of what we are going to do; we can only perceive the probability of events that will occur as derived from our current conditions."

			Please answer me now!!!!!!!

imported>Matk: /* Where is the quotes derived from and who said it? */ new section

2009-02-21T23:08:28Z

Where is the quotes derived from and who said it?: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:08, 21 February 2009
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	***** Actually, it does. In the "original" timeline, Hiro was gone until the explosion (according to Ando). He then jumps back. You have to not think of him "returning" per se, but "rewinding" history and starting anew from that point. History has changed from him jumping backwards. Again, according to the multiverser theory, jumping backwards changes time, even if it in a period of time "after" you jumped forward. Think of it like a VCR: if you fast forward, you're not recording over anything, because nothing occurred yet. If you rewind then start recording, you're recording over history from the traveler's perspective, thus the timeline changing. It's a matter of perspective, which is something far too complex for my total understanding, nor for the millions of viewers of the show to collectively understand enough for the writers to explain their views on it.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 03:56, 10 August 2007 (EDT)		***** Actually, it does. In the "original" timeline, Hiro was gone until the explosion (according to Ando). He then jumps back. You have to not think of him "returning" per se, but "rewinding" history and starting anew from that point. History has changed from him jumping backwards. Again, according to the multiverser theory, jumping backwards changes time, even if it in a period of time "after" you jumped forward. Think of it like a VCR: if you fast forward, you're not recording over anything, because nothing occurred yet. If you rewind then start recording, you're recording over history from the traveler's perspective, thus the timeline changing. It's a matter of perspective, which is something far too complex for my total understanding, nor for the millions of viewers of the show to collectively understand enough for the writers to explain their views on it.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 03:56, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
	****** You are right that in the "original" timeline, Hiro is gone until the explosion (according to Ando); and when he jumps back he changes the timeline so that he isn't... However, you are leaving out that Hiro's original jump to Nov. 8th still occurs... It doesn't get written over by Hiro returning to just after he left or purposely changing what happens in the future... What happened on Nov 8th to the Hiro that went to Isaac's apartment is important, cause he still exists--even in multiverse theory. So one Hiro is now in 1617 and his previous (diverging?) self is probably somewhere he shouldn't be... whether that causes a paradox is remained to be seen. The closest analogy to this situation is [http://www.mjyoung.net/time/back2.html this analogy] (Mr. Young) provides regarding Back to the Future II, in which he describes paradoxes that occur simultaneously in both the fixed-time and multiverse theories.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 04:44, 10 August 2007 (EDT)		****** You are right that in the "original" timeline, Hiro is gone until the explosion (according to Ando); and when he jumps back he changes the timeline so that he isn't... However, you are leaving out that Hiro's original jump to Nov. 8th still occurs... It doesn't get written over by Hiro returning to just after he left or purposely changing what happens in the future... What happened on Nov 8th to the Hiro that went to Isaac's apartment is important, cause he still exists--even in multiverse theory. So one Hiro is now in 1617 and his previous (diverging?) self is probably somewhere he shouldn't be... whether that causes a paradox is remained to be seen. The closest analogy to this situation is [http://www.mjyoung.net/time/back2.html this analogy] (Mr. Young) provides regarding Back to the Future II, in which he describes paradoxes that occur simultaneously in both the fixed-time and multiverse theories.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 04:44, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

			== Where is the quotes derived from and who said it? ==

			"However, we humans do not perceive time flowing in both directions. For us, the arrow of time points "forward". We have a memory of where we have been, but no perception of what we are going to do; we can only perceive the probability of events that will occur as derived from our current conditions."

imported>Cosmic AC: /* The Death of Hana Gitelman */

2008-11-20T04:03:09Z

The Death of Hana Gitelman

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:03, 20 November 2008
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	* Whenever a person moves backwards in time, it changes time. Read the multiverse theory linked on this article, it's very insightful.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 03:02, 23 May 2007 (EDT)		* Whenever a person moves backwards in time, it changes time. Read the multiverse theory linked on this article, it's very insightful.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 03:02, 23 May 2007 (EDT)
	** But according to that history does not change unless the time traveler changes it. Why does [[Future Hana]] have a body when present [[Hana]] dose not? What did [[Hiro]], [[Ando]], anything or anyone they affected after [[Five Years Gone]], do to change what happened to her? -[[User:Level\|Lөv]][[User talk:Level\|ө]][[Special:Contributions/Level\|l]] 16:57, 23 May 2007 (EDT)		** But according to that history does not change unless the time traveler changes it. Why does [[Future Hana]] have a body when present [[Hana]] dose not? What did [[Hiro]], [[Ando]], anything or anyone they affected after [[Five Years Gone]], do to change what happened to her? -[[User:Level\|Lөv]][[User talk:Level\|ө]][[Special:Contributions/Level\|l]] 16:57, 23 May 2007 (EDT)
	** Hana was the one who convinced Ted to go after the Company. It's possible that she was "supposed" to work more with Ted and Future Hiro did something to interfere with their partnership in hopes of stopping the bomb that way. Perhaps he had originally believed it was Hana who had "set up us the bomb". Then again, maybe NBC just made yet another oversight...		** Hana was the one who convinced Ted to go after the Company. It's possible that she was "supposed" to work more with Ted and Future Hiro did something to interfere with their partnership in hopes of stopping the bomb that way. Perhaps he had originally believed it was Hana who had "set up us the bomb". Then again, maybe NBC just made yet another oversight...--[[User:Cosmic AC\|Cosmic AC]] 23:03, 19 November 2008 (EST)

	== A Paradox? ==		== A Paradox? ==

imported>Cosmic AC: /* The Death of Hana Gitelman */

2008-11-20T04:02:35Z

The Death of Hana Gitelman

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:02, 20 November 2008
Line 37:		Line 37:
	* Whenever a person moves backwards in time, it changes time. Read the multiverse theory linked on this article, it's very insightful.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 03:02, 23 May 2007 (EDT)		* Whenever a person moves backwards in time, it changes time. Read the multiverse theory linked on this article, it's very insightful.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 03:02, 23 May 2007 (EDT)
	** But according to that history does not change unless the time traveler changes it. Why does [[Future Hana]] have a body when present [[Hana]] dose not? What did [[Hiro]], [[Ando]], anything or anyone they affected after [[Five Years Gone]], do to change what happened to her? -[[User:Level\|Lөv]][[User talk:Level\|ө]][[Special:Contributions/Level\|l]] 16:57, 23 May 2007 (EDT)		** But according to that history does not change unless the time traveler changes it. Why does [[Future Hana]] have a body when present [[Hana]] dose not? What did [[Hiro]], [[Ando]], anything or anyone they affected after [[Five Years Gone]], do to change what happened to her? -[[User:Level\|Lөv]][[User talk:Level\|ө]][[Special:Contributions/Level\|l]] 16:57, 23 May 2007 (EDT)
			** Hana was the one who convinced Ted to go after the Company. It's possible that she was "supposed" to work more with Ted and Future Hiro did something to interfere with their partnership in hopes of stopping the bomb that way. Perhaps he had originally believed it was Hana who had "set up us the bomb". Then again, maybe NBC just made yet another oversight...

	== A Paradox? ==		== A Paradox? ==

imported>Ryangibsonstewart: Talk:Time travel (theory) moved to Theory talk:Time travel: use proper namespace

2007-09-22T01:01:57Z

Talk:Time travel (theory) moved to Theory talk:Time travel: use proper namespace

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:01, 22 September 2007
(No difference)

imported>MiamiVolts: /* Temporal Mechanics */ More on young's theories...

2007-08-10T08:44:08Z

Temporal Mechanics: More on young's theories...

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:44, 10 August 2007
Line 54:		Line 54:
	**** But Hiro originally experienced the explosion after going forward in time. Then, he returned to just after he had left. It's not really the same thing and so the explanation doesn't exactly apply to this case. However, this explanation is relevant to what will be happening in 1671, according to the spoilers, so thanks for the reference.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 02:24, 10 August 2007 (EDT)		**** But Hiro originally experienced the explosion after going forward in time. Then, he returned to just after he had left. It's not really the same thing and so the explanation doesn't exactly apply to this case. However, this explanation is relevant to what will be happening in 1671, according to the spoilers, so thanks for the reference.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 02:24, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
	***** Actually, it does. In the "original" timeline, Hiro was gone until the explosion (according to Ando). He then jumps back. You have to not think of him "returning" per se, but "rewinding" history and starting anew from that point. History has changed from him jumping backwards. Again, according to the multiverser theory, jumping backwards changes time, even if it in a period of time "after" you jumped forward. Think of it like a VCR: if you fast forward, you're not recording over anything, because nothing occurred yet. If you rewind then start recording, you're recording over history from the traveler's perspective, thus the timeline changing. It's a matter of perspective, which is something far too complex for my total understanding, nor for the millions of viewers of the show to collectively understand enough for the writers to explain their views on it.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 03:56, 10 August 2007 (EDT)		***** Actually, it does. In the "original" timeline, Hiro was gone until the explosion (according to Ando). He then jumps back. You have to not think of him "returning" per se, but "rewinding" history and starting anew from that point. History has changed from him jumping backwards. Again, according to the multiverser theory, jumping backwards changes time, even if it in a period of time "after" you jumped forward. Think of it like a VCR: if you fast forward, you're not recording over anything, because nothing occurred yet. If you rewind then start recording, you're recording over history from the traveler's perspective, thus the timeline changing. It's a matter of perspective, which is something far too complex for my total understanding, nor for the millions of viewers of the show to collectively understand enough for the writers to explain their views on it.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 03:56, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
			****** You are right that in the "original" timeline, Hiro is gone until the explosion (according to Ando); and when he jumps back he changes the timeline so that he isn't... However, you are leaving out that Hiro's original jump to Nov. 8th still occurs... It doesn't get written over by Hiro returning to just after he left or purposely changing what happens in the future... What happened on Nov 8th to the Hiro that went to Isaac's apartment is important, cause he still exists--even in multiverse theory. So one Hiro is now in 1617 and his previous (diverging?) self is probably somewhere he shouldn't be... whether that causes a paradox is remained to be seen. The closest analogy to this situation is [http://www.mjyoung.net/time/back2.html this analogy] (Mr. Young) provides regarding Back to the Future II, in which he describes paradoxes that occur simultaneously in both the fixed-time and multiverse theories.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 04:44, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

imported>Baldbobbo: /* Temporal Mechanics */

2007-08-10T07:56:03Z

Temporal Mechanics

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:56, 10 August 2007
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	*** I was referring to the author's theory of the multiverser versus a fixed timeline or parallel universe theory. The multiverser is similar to a VCR head along one timeline. But the point that the author makes is that once you go back in time, you have changed history just with your existence. Where air molecules should be, you exist instead. So everything that happened in the time traveler's history does not exist anymore in the actual history (or timeline). If Hiro traveled back in time at some point (see [[:Image:Timeline.png\|this image]]), history has changed. Going forward isn't the same, since the equivalent is you being stuck in a freezer for however long you traveled forward. [http://www.mjyoung.net/time/cause.html This page] talks about causality, which would be the main point of the question. He has a good review about the ''Terminator'' movies, and how it makes sense according to his theory. Hope that helped.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 02:01, 10 August 2007 (EDT)		*** I was referring to the author's theory of the multiverser versus a fixed timeline or parallel universe theory. The multiverser is similar to a VCR head along one timeline. But the point that the author makes is that once you go back in time, you have changed history just with your existence. Where air molecules should be, you exist instead. So everything that happened in the time traveler's history does not exist anymore in the actual history (or timeline). If Hiro traveled back in time at some point (see [[:Image:Timeline.png\|this image]]), history has changed. Going forward isn't the same, since the equivalent is you being stuck in a freezer for however long you traveled forward. [http://www.mjyoung.net/time/cause.html This page] talks about causality, which would be the main point of the question. He has a good review about the ''Terminator'' movies, and how it makes sense according to his theory. Hope that helped.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 02:01, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
	**** But Hiro originally experienced the explosion after going forward in time. Then, he returned to just after he had left. It's not really the same thing and so the explanation doesn't exactly apply to this case. However, this explanation is relevant to what will be happening in 1671, according to the spoilers, so thanks for the reference.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 02:24, 10 August 2007 (EDT)		**** But Hiro originally experienced the explosion after going forward in time. Then, he returned to just after he had left. It's not really the same thing and so the explanation doesn't exactly apply to this case. However, this explanation is relevant to what will be happening in 1671, according to the spoilers, so thanks for the reference.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 02:24, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
			***** Actually, it does. In the "original" timeline, Hiro was gone until the explosion (according to Ando). He then jumps back. You have to not think of him "returning" per se, but "rewinding" history and starting anew from that point. History has changed from him jumping backwards. Again, according to the multiverser theory, jumping backwards changes time, even if it in a period of time "after" you jumped forward. Think of it like a VCR: if you fast forward, you're not recording over anything, because nothing occurred yet. If you rewind then start recording, you're recording over history from the traveler's perspective, thus the timeline changing. It's a matter of perspective, which is something far too complex for my total understanding, nor for the millions of viewers of the show to collectively understand enough for the writers to explain their views on it.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 03:56, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:44, 10 August 2007
Line 54:		Line 54:
	**** But Hiro originally experienced the explosion after going forward in time. Then, he returned to just after he had left. It's not really the same thing and so the explanation doesn't exactly apply to this case. However, this explanation is relevant to what will be happening in 1671, according to the spoilers, so thanks for the reference.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 02:24, 10 August 2007 (EDT)		**** But Hiro originally experienced the explosion after going forward in time. Then, he returned to just after he had left. It's not really the same thing and so the explanation doesn't exactly apply to this case. However, this explanation is relevant to what will be happening in 1671, according to the spoilers, so thanks for the reference.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 02:24, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
	***** Actually, it does. In the "original" timeline, Hiro was gone until the explosion (according to Ando). He then jumps back. You have to not think of him "returning" per se, but "rewinding" history and starting anew from that point. History has changed from him jumping backwards. Again, according to the multiverser theory, jumping backwards changes time, even if it in a period of time "after" you jumped forward. Think of it like a VCR: if you fast forward, you're not recording over anything, because nothing occurred yet. If you rewind then start recording, you're recording over history from the traveler's perspective, thus the timeline changing. It's a matter of perspective, which is something far too complex for my total understanding, nor for the millions of viewers of the show to collectively understand enough for the writers to explain their views on it.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 03:56, 10 August 2007 (EDT)		***** Actually, it does. In the "original" timeline, Hiro was gone until the explosion (according to Ando). He then jumps back. You have to not think of him "returning" per se, but "rewinding" history and starting anew from that point. History has changed from him jumping backwards. Again, according to the multiverser theory, jumping backwards changes time, even if it in a period of time "after" you jumped forward. Think of it like a VCR: if you fast forward, you're not recording over anything, because nothing occurred yet. If you rewind then start recording, you're recording over history from the traveler's perspective, thus the timeline changing. It's a matter of perspective, which is something far too complex for my total understanding, nor for the millions of viewers of the show to collectively understand enough for the writers to explain their views on it.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 03:56, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
			****** You are right that in the "original" timeline, Hiro is gone until the explosion (according to Ando); and when he jumps back he changes the timeline so that he isn't... However, you are leaving out that Hiro's original jump to Nov. 8th still occurs... It doesn't get written over by Hiro returning to just after he left or purposely changing what happens in the future... What happened on Nov 8th to the Hiro that went to Isaac's apartment is important, cause he still exists--even in multiverse theory. So one Hiro is now in 1617 and his previous (diverging?) self is probably somewhere he shouldn't be... whether that causes a paradox is remained to be seen. The closest analogy to this situation is [http://www.mjyoung.net/time/back2.html this analogy] (Mr. Young) provides regarding Back to the Future II, in which he describes paradoxes that occur simultaneously in both the fixed-time and multiverse theories.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 04:44, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:56, 10 August 2007
Line 53:		Line 53:
	*** I was referring to the author's theory of the multiverser versus a fixed timeline or parallel universe theory. The multiverser is similar to a VCR head along one timeline. But the point that the author makes is that once you go back in time, you have changed history just with your existence. Where air molecules should be, you exist instead. So everything that happened in the time traveler's history does not exist anymore in the actual history (or timeline). If Hiro traveled back in time at some point (see [[:Image:Timeline.png\|this image]]), history has changed. Going forward isn't the same, since the equivalent is you being stuck in a freezer for however long you traveled forward. [http://www.mjyoung.net/time/cause.html This page] talks about causality, which would be the main point of the question. He has a good review about the ''Terminator'' movies, and how it makes sense according to his theory. Hope that helped.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 02:01, 10 August 2007 (EDT)		*** I was referring to the author's theory of the multiverser versus a fixed timeline or parallel universe theory. The multiverser is similar to a VCR head along one timeline. But the point that the author makes is that once you go back in time, you have changed history just with your existence. Where air molecules should be, you exist instead. So everything that happened in the time traveler's history does not exist anymore in the actual history (or timeline). If Hiro traveled back in time at some point (see [[:Image:Timeline.png\|this image]]), history has changed. Going forward isn't the same, since the equivalent is you being stuck in a freezer for however long you traveled forward. [http://www.mjyoung.net/time/cause.html This page] talks about causality, which would be the main point of the question. He has a good review about the ''Terminator'' movies, and how it makes sense according to his theory. Hope that helped.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 02:01, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
	**** But Hiro originally experienced the explosion after going forward in time. Then, he returned to just after he had left. It's not really the same thing and so the explanation doesn't exactly apply to this case. However, this explanation is relevant to what will be happening in 1671, according to the spoilers, so thanks for the reference.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 02:24, 10 August 2007 (EDT)		**** But Hiro originally experienced the explosion after going forward in time. Then, he returned to just after he had left. It's not really the same thing and so the explanation doesn't exactly apply to this case. However, this explanation is relevant to what will be happening in 1671, according to the spoilers, so thanks for the reference.--[[User:MiamiVolts\|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts\|talk]]) 02:24, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
			***** Actually, it does. In the "original" timeline, Hiro was gone until the explosion (according to Ando). He then jumps back. You have to not think of him "returning" per se, but "rewinding" history and starting anew from that point. History has changed from him jumping backwards. Again, according to the multiverser theory, jumping backwards changes time, even if it in a period of time "after" you jumped forward. Think of it like a VCR: if you fast forward, you're not recording over anything, because nothing occurred yet. If you rewind then start recording, you're recording over history from the traveler's perspective, thus the timeline changing. It's a matter of perspective, which is something far too complex for my total understanding, nor for the millions of viewers of the show to collectively understand enough for the writers to explain their views on it.--[[User:Baldbobbo\|Bob]] 03:56, 10 August 2007 (EDT)