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Archived Talk: [[Category talk:Plot Points/Archive 1|Nov/Dec 2006]]
* Should plot points have episodic sections like Characters do with "Character History"? If Yes, is "Plot History" with episode references a decent name for it? --[[User:Orne|Orne]] 17:55, 8 November 2006 (EST)
* Should [[Nathan]]'s election be added as a plot point? I would suggest "The campaign" --[[User:Orne|Orne]] 18:33, 8 November 2006 (EST)
**Or better yet, "Nathan's campaign" since it appears so often in search --[[User:Orne|Orne]] 18:35, 8 November 2006 (EST)
*** [[Nathan's campaign]] sounds like a good article. There's plenty to detail, what with Linderman's money, the event where he " outs" Peter as depressive, and the brunch. Personally, I've been avoiding episodic sections on the plot points so far because most of them have been advancing so slowly, but it might not hurt to do it that way now that we have more information on a lot of them. Other opinions?--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 19:03, 8 November 2006 (EST)
*** Yeah I think episodic sections would be helpful.[[User:Dadadave|Dadadave]] 19:12, 8 November 2006 (EST)
*I also wonder about whether some sort of timeline would be useful though with [[Hiro]]'s time traveling I'm not sure how to put that together. I am curious the best way to include all that we've seen that will happen on November 8th and how time travel works in the Heroes universe. For example in the article on Nathan's campaign how do we handle him winning it? A possible future outcome? The first future outcome?[[User:Dadadave|Dadadave]] 19:12, 8 November 2006 (EST)
** I'm trying to do it [[User:Orne/Timeline]] here, using "alternate future". I believe that we've seen that Hiro 'can' change the future, because the Ando in that reality had not seen Hiro in 5 weeks, yet Ando is now traveling with Hiro on a cross country journey. --[[User:Orne|Orne]] 12:55, 17 November 2006 (EST)
* Also, does every Plot Point really have to appear on the Portal Gallery? I think some of them, like 'lastvegasniki', or 'Mr. Muggles' are perfectly fine just keeping in the "Articles in Category" section. Comments? --[[User:Orne|Orne]] 12:55, 17 November 2006 (EST)
** I'm beginning to dislike the idea of a portal page for plot points overall. Unless we cut it down to, say, 8-12 or so, it's just too big and makes it hard to get to the category list. Anyone else?--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 18:20, 1 December 2006 (EST)
*** Can we limit the gallery to a top 12 or something (3 rows of 4)? Things like ''The Missing Painting'' aren't so missing anymore, not to mention ''The Money'' has been found, D.L. knows Jessica killed his gang so ''The Skull Ring'' isn't as significant... --[[User:Orne|Orne]] 18:41, 1 December 2006 (EST)
****I like a 3x4 idea, and would be '''so''' happy to get rid of some of these pics from the gallery - it ends up looking like a junk drawer: you get what you need, but you have to rifle through a lot of crap ... I'm all for creating a new category, and keeping "Plot Points" really limited to plot points. I don't have a suggestion for the name of a "catch-all" category, though. Maybe just something like "Miscellaneous?" - [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|RyanGibsonStewart]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|talk]]) 22:39, 1 December 2006 (EST)
*****I think the 12 you chose, Hardvice, are great choices. And it looks so much cleaner. Plus, the other 39 or whaterver plot points are listed below - it's just the main 12 pictured. My only suggestion for change: replace [[The Message]] with [[Sanjog's file]]. Other than that, looks great! - [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|RyanGibsonStewart]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|talk]]) 06:56, 2 December 2006 (EST)

==Standarize Plot Point image size?==
It bugs me that [[Portal:Plot Points]] is a gallery and the rest are tables. The only way we can fix this is to standardize the image size for plot points (at least those that are in the gallery, but it would be better to do all of them if we do any&mdash;there are only 44, so it wouldn't be much of a chore). This raises a few questions:
# Should we have a sidebar for plot points? Pretty much everything else has one by now.
# What on Earth would go in the sidebar? First appearance? Related characters? Just the image and caption?
# Can we subcat them somehow, like we did for [[:category:Places]]?
Any ideas, or is this better left alone?--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 13:45, 19 December 2006 (EST)
*First, let me say how much I despise "Plot Points". Ugh, there is no easy solution. In the end, Plot Points becomes a receptacle for uncategorizable topics. It may as well be called "Everything Else" or "Random Sh.." Any-hoo, this ain't no time for a rant. On to my (constructive) thoughts about the above questions...
# I'm not sure a sidebar would be the best idea, just because everything is so diverse. You could group a few points together and do a cool sidebar for those, but I don't have any concrete ideas. My thought is to leave it for now, and let's create a sidebar when we need one, rather than try to come up with a "standard" for the stinkin' plot points.
# Um, I think I answered that above. Oops... But actually there this little nagging thing inside me that I would love to see on the site. You mentioned "Related characters", which reminded me of character interactions. (I know it's not really what you were talking about, but we're doing associative thinking, here - go with me). Anyway, I wanted an article, maybe, called "Character Connections" or "Character Relations" showing how characters are, well, connected and related. (See [http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Character_Relations Lostpedia's character relations].) I know I'm way off topic here, and I don't have anything concrete to offer, just a thought about somehow showing character connections, especially in light of what Tim Kring said in an interview, that these characters will never form a "Justice League" - they will always remain separate but connected. I like the idea of chronicling their interactions. (Linderman's connections to everybody are especially intriguing.)
# I think subcats are a great idea. Let me mull that over a bit.
Hope my mental download helped a bit. I know I sometimes think a bit abstractly. Let's see what others have to say. - [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|RyanGibsonStewart]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|talk]]) 20:07, 20 December 2006 (EST)
**I agree that "plot points" is kind of becoming the hole where Articles Go To Die. We ''could'' categorize them all (things like "Publications", "Events", etc.) That's what Memory Alpha does for Star Trek; they have about a billion categories which get as specific as, like, "Romulan Alcoholic Beverages" and the like. This is probably the best answer, since it solves all problems at once (sidebars can be customized to the category, the portal becomes manageable, etc.) but unfortunately it seems like right now the categories would either be too generic or would have one or two articles. That's not necessarily a problem ... Animals only has two and we're all fine with that. (Hmm, that reminds me ... I need to add the animals to Portal:Characters).<br><br>On an unrelated note (see? I think like you think!), we probably need to do a little category cleanup anyway. I'd like to change people to characters, move the cast and crew out, split them into cast (and maybe cast into main, supporting, recurring, and guest) and crew (maybe split into graphic novels and series). Just seems like it would help separate the real-world articles from the ''Heroes''-world articles, and "characters" is more flexible than "people" (see: Animals, Uluru).<br><br>I think I'll work up a chart with some ideas for breaking plot points into usable categories now.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 21:20, 20 December 2006 (EST)
***Yes, yes, yes. Great ideas. Spot on. Okay, the category-splitting seems a bit daunting to me, but doable. I ''totally'' agree with you on the cast and crew splits (I think we had that conversation before, and it's been on my to do list forever, but I'm lazy), and calling the characters "people" has been bugging me since about day 2. Great ideas. Let me know what you're thinking of for the category breakdowns. PS, can ''we'' have a category called "Romulan Alcoholic Beverages" too? - [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|RyanGibsonStewart]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|talk]]) 21:54, 20 December 2006 (EST)
**** Changing people to characters will probably be worse than the plot points. We can move the category itself, but we have to manually update all the articles and there's about 80 of them, vs. 45 plot points. I tried to see how Lostpedia has the portals (I've been avoiding LP since I have season 1 coming from Netflix) but they are currently borked.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 22:00, 20 December 2006 (EST)
**** Next question: when we split "plot points", do we make the new cats subcats and keep "plot points", or do we make them all subcats of [[:Category:Heroes]]? Some of them aren't really "plot points" in any meaningful sense of the phrase.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 22:02, 20 December 2006 (EST)

==Suggestions for New Cats==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Plot Point !! Possible New Cats
|-
| ''[[9th Wonders!]]'' || Publication, Artwork
|-
| ''[[Activating Evolution]]'' || Publications, Research
|-
| [[The algorithm]] || Research
|-
| [[Brain removal]] || ?
|-
| [[Chandra's journal]] || Objects, Research
|-
| [[Charlie's birthday party]] || Events
|-
| [[Claire's tape]] || Media
|-
| [[The eclipse]] || Events
|-
| [[Explosion]] || Events, Predictions
|-
| [[The Genesis Files]] || Research
|-
| [[Hiro's sword]] || Objects
|-
| [[Isaac's paintings]] || Artwork, Predictions
|-
| [[The key]] || Objects, Research
|-
| [[Lasvegasniki.com]] || Media
|-
| [[Linderman's prosecution]] || Events?
|-
| [[Linderman's tape]] || Media
|-
| [[The list]] || Research
|-
| [[The map]] || Research
|-
| [[The mark]] || Symbols
|-
| [[The message]] || ?
|-
| [[Micah's tuition]] || ?
|-
| [[The money]] || objects
|-
| [[Nathan's accident]] || events
|-
| [[Nathan's campaign]] || events
|-
| [[New York Chronicle]] || Publications
|-
| [[New York Journal]] || Publications
|-
| [[Newspaper clipping (Jackie)]] || Publications
|-
| [[Niki's tape]] || Media
|-
| [[Patient Zero]] || Research
|-
| [[Peter's visions]] || Predictions, Events?
|-
| [[Power absorption]] || ? (maybe we should put it in "powers", even though it's not itself a power)
|-||
| [[Prophecy]] || Predictions, Artwork? (also we should pick a new format. Both have problems, but I think I prefer Orne's at this point.)
|-
| [[Rift]] || ? (maybe we need something abstract, like "concepts" or "time travel")
|-
| [[Sanjog's file]] || Research
|-
| [[Skull ring]] || Objects
|-
| [[The Sylar tape]] || Media
|-
| [[Sylar's message]] || Media
|-
| [[Sylar's victims]] || uh...we can maybe move it to "List of Sylar's victims and call it a day :)
|-
| [[Sylar's watch]] || Objects
|-
| [[The symbol]] || Symbols
|-
| [[The train wreck]] || Events
|-
| [[Uluru]] || Big Scary Monsters (or maybe "Characters")
|-
|}

Latest revision as of 02:58, 3 January 2007

Archived Talk: Nov/Dec 2006

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