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Talk:Ability replication

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Revision as of 04:29, 16 November 2009 by imported>Stevehim (→‎Really empathic mimicry?)
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Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources Episodes
2. Near-canon Sources Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities
Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine ability replication's name.
Source/Explanation
Peter replicates the abilities of others.
Archives Archived Topics
Feb-Mar 2009
Mar-Sept 2009 Future Peter with tCould Peter be ab

Peter's Empathy?

Did it seem like peter connected with samuel, or am I crazy?Fourletterfame 10:30, 30 September 2009 (EDT)

Peter replicating from Emma

It wasn't quite clear when he did it, it was either when he saved her from that bus or when he kept grabbing her on the sidewalk. They seem to have discared the sound effects and visual effects associated with this ability this season.--WarGrowlmon18 13:01, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

    • I'm positive I heard a sound effect when he kept pestering her on the sidewalk to see if she was ok.Gamerelite1 14:47, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
      • Rewatched episode, there was no sound but they zoomed in on his hands touching her sidearm, so that was the point where he took her ability -- (WaterRatj) 08:15, 19 October 2009 (EDT)

Special Effects

The special effects used to be yellow or gold-ish, but when Peter took Hiro's ability, it was a blue type effect. --mc_hammark 07:54, 20 October 2009 (EDT)

  • Ability special effects have been changed in the past, most glaring example being Candice's illusions. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 13:54, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
    • When did Candice's special effects change? --mc_hammark 15:34, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
      • Near the end of season one, the first effect was a ripple one that happened both on her and her surroundings, but they changed it to this morph effect with a bright light, it was sucky compared to the first one. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 15:44, 20 October 2009 (EDT)

Lost Control

Anyone else starting to think Peter can't control this ability, like when he touched Emma he accidentally replicated her power. It could explainwhy he didn't just teleport Jeremy. --Fr0z3nB0nes 17:54, 20 October 2009 (EDT)

  • Most accepted theory is that he replicated it because he could connect with her, kinda like an echo of his original ability. He's still limited to touch, but he doesn't need to actively replicate the ability. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:59, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
    • Although we do have to question why he didn't just teleport him to heal hiro. Some of you may say it would have impacted on Noah's storyline about helping Jeremy but he could have just as easily recruited him to his new company. I'm sure he could have found him a home and a healer would be useful to the company. BTW, doesn't Jeremy's hair kinda make him look like a young linderman.... and the same power(ish) too. Ability heredity anyone? --mc_hammark 18:14, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
      • I thought that myself, someone said in the episode's talk page that Jeremy might kill Peter because he was too nervous, but I don't think that would happen, Jeremy saw that he could heal, and Noah touched him without being killed (though he touched Jeremy's shirt, not his actual skin). Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:42, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
        • Because if peter teleported jeremy, then the plot line of hiro dying would be over.Gamerelite1 15:29, 22 October 2009 (EDT)

Examples

Shouldn't we have an examples page now? I noticed there are 12 images there now, instead of the usual 8 we have for ability pages.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 20:28, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

Aura absorption

Many fans think Peter's ability will evolve into Arthur's. Why not into Linda's? Physical contact, the glow, the source loses its power... Thoughts? Green.gif AltesUTC CH

  • And take people's auras and lives along with it? I don't think he'd do that. Plus, Linda kinda had a hunger herself. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:48, 1 November 2009 (EST)
    • Personally I wouldn't like Peter become like Arthur or Linda, it's the fans' obsession with Peter's power development what interests me. Green.gif AltesUTC CH

Draph?

Shouldn't Draph be added to the list of users of this ability?--Spexile 17:08, 3 November 2009 (EST)

  • Hellno--Yoshi n1 17:07, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • Actually, he needs to be. He was in the istory. Although his limits are different to Peter's. I'd wait for the creator to explain it. He is on the wiki. --mc_hammark 17:09, 3 November 2009 (EST)
      • Its just not like, fair. There is a whole story how peter got this ability and then some Draph guy comes and he just seems to haves this ability? --Yoshi n1 17:21, 3 November 2009 (EST)
        • Well, he was originally created on Survival, so odds are, the creator just copied Peter's ability. By the way, don't forget your signature.--Spexile 17:17, 3 November 2009 (EST)
          • Chances are there are many people out there with abilities like this. If you get annoyed because characters come in and have the same ability as other characters we've been following then you'll end up hating a lot of the characters. --mc_hammark 17:18, 3 November 2009 (EST)
            • Yeah i know it was bullshit. But Draph gots an Assignment Tracker file and why isnt he in the page for all the people who have an assignment tracker case? --Yoshi n1 17:21, 3 November 2009 (EST)
              • That doesn't really count. All that counts is what the producers and that choose to show. It's like if Milo Ventimiglia chose to use Hiro Nakamura as a character in his comics. It wouldn't be cannon in the real world. That assignment tracker is fan made and doesn't count unless they add it to the assignment tracker page. --mc_hammark 17:22, 3 November 2009 (EST)
                • How could it be fanmade? this was on the heroes : survival site "If a member of HeroesWiki: Go to User:draphoenix to see the assignment tracker of Senna" And lets first start with making Claircognizance,Phoenix Mimicry ,Energy Manipulation and Telephasing AND BTW.. SYLAR GOT CLAIRCOGNIZANCE?? its on the assignment tracker file--Yoshi n1 17:27, 3 November 2009 (EST)
  • It's fan made, it cant be taken as cannon - Jenx222 | U / T / C 17:31, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • Im sorry but i don't really get it, if its on the Heroes survival OFFICIAL site how could it be a fan made?
      • Heroes:Survival is an on-line game where you make your own characters up, it doesn't mean they are part of the actual heroes storyline, also the assignment tracker is on the wiki not the official site, it was made by a fan as was the character - Jenx222 | U / T / C 17:53, 3 November 2009 (EST)
        • Did this guy actually appear in the iStory, or is he just a character on Heroes: Survivial? If he hasn't appeared in an iStory chapter yet, then he doesn't need a mainspace page. -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 17:56, 3 November 2009 (EST)
          • But, if the character is used by the iStory writers, they sort of become canon, despite being fan-created. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:58, 3 November 2009 (EST)
            • Okay, so I guess he does appear. I don't read the iStory (I hate it personally. It just creates useless characters and powers) so I didn't know. I don't think we should create all of the powers he has unless we see him use them. -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 18:00, 3 November 2009 (EST)
              • Just checked it, he does actually appear, but I don't think we should create pages for all those abilities yet, they seem a little "out there", it's this sort of stuff that ruins heroes for me - Jenx222 | U / T / C 18:06, 3 November 2009 (EST)

Oh $@#&! THAT I never expected: some random guy appears with the same ability as Peter, who acquired it under very special circumstances. Meh... Didn't Draph absorb this ability from his brother? Green.gif AltesUTC CH

  • Special in-uterus circumstance it seems, but it wasn't acquired, it was given, it appears. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:33, 4 November 2009 (EST)
    • And what's the difference? Green.gif AltesUTC CH
      • So far, all we've seen is abilities being duplicated without the holder losing them, or else the ability being stolen against one's wishes. From what I could tell, in this case, the holder of the ability willingly passed on the ability to another person. I'm not 100% sure that's what happened, but it seems to be. For more info, you should ask the guy who made the character. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:55, 4 November 2009 (EST)
        • But we at least should add that Draph's brother also had this ability before he died, and Draph didn't initially have it. Right? Green.gif AltesUTC CH
          • Fine by me. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:28, 4 November 2009 (EST)
            • Draph's Ability Replication is just as different from Peter's as Knox's strength is different from Niki's and Ando's ability is different from that Hawkins. Ability Replication was a source of guilt and pain for Draph. So, similar to others, he goes through his personal demons so he doesn't become overpowered. Moreover, there are other mimics out there in the heroes canon universe. Claude is disheartened that Peter was an empath. He knew of others and so did others. AS for ripping off peter, his Matt Parkman rip of Prof X? Well, yea. Thing is, almost nothing in this archtype is origonal anymore. And if it is origonal, people hate it for taking that leaps, look at Enhanced Synthesiza. Draphoenix 10:52, 6 November 2009 (EST)
  • Sorry but, what the hell ? So what, holding MORE THAN ONE POWER makes the thing a totally different power ! I mean, it's just another ability that can mimic, but since Peter was supposed to be THE hero and will be stuck with the crappy "one ability at a time" power, I don't think it's fair to put Draph there, saying it's more advanced ! Peter is not "not advanced", he just can't do more with it. (Because they already don't know how to handle him with one power, and because the budget was cut severely) It changes the whole concept of the power. Robert Forster said he could take powers away if he was willing to, implying he could let people with it. So it's as close as power absorption then ability replication. I mean, come on, now, that just makes Peter seem even more lame, as if it was possible. There is enough Sylar to remember us Peter is not as powerful as he should be, but if some random guy involved in a crappy story got the same ability, only mastering it 100 times better, that just makes Peter the weakest hero ever... I'm personally against. Till it is not proven Peter's power can hold several powers (mastered or not), I don't think they should be considered as being the same power. And, Draph's one looks pretty passive. So what, he just copy people passively and storing all the abilities ? It's closer to empathic mimicry then ! I mean, create another ability which involves mimicry but I don't think it's fair to give him Peter's new one. And what the hell is that story anyway, with all those powers taking away and stuff... >_< Please, don't do that to Peter, he doesn't deserve that. As far as "empaths" are few in the Heroes universe, we haven't seen much of them, apart from Peter and Sylar's papas. An probably won't, ever, since even only two was already too much for the shown and Peter is the lamest empath ever, so I think they'll stick to Sylar... And that : "According to Draph's Heroes Survival Account, Draph can hold on to a maximum of five abilities. A hindering factor of Draph's ability is that each of the five abilities must have a different elemental attribute given to them. "

How can this be considered as Ability replication ? I mean now it has to be 5 different elemental powers, and only 5 ?! They'll never do that on the show, come on, it's not Peter's power... Moreover, it has been hinted (while not confirmed) that all those mimics/empaths have the same core ability, that they access in different ways, according to their personality (before Peter's injection with the formula). So whatever happens, Draph CAN'T have Peter's power, since we have "power absorption" "empathic mimicry" etc..., they are considered as different powers, matching their owners. Draph must have his own mimic ability (let's not even talk about the elemental limit huh ?).

            • Its Ability replication because it is the same type of acquisition, touching. Not aura, not full absorption, not understanding their ability. Draphoenix 22:30, 10 November 2009 (EST)

Really empathic mimicry?

  • I'm not suggesting this be published as fact right now, but there have been hints that this ability is really just empathic mimicry (eg - Edgar claiming he has met "an empath"). We know that abiities change over time, and while they usually expand, there is no real reason why they couldn't be limited instead by this "evolution." I accept that (since we have Arthur (even though he's a liar) telling Peter he lost his power for good and the way in which Peter reobtained an ability (the serum)), we have to assume it's a new ability for now, but I really think they are moving toward it being the same ability he has always had (and have left hints to that effect). Of course, it's been a little while since I've seen the previous seasons, so I might be forgetting something, but until someone can come up with/remind me of something that proves this cannot be EM, I'm sticking to my guns.  ;) --Stevehim 12:25, 13 November 2009 (EST)
    • Nothing suggests an ability can evolve in a way that restricts its effects. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:33, 13 November 2009 (EST)
      • I think what he means is that Ability Replication could evolve into Empathic mimicry, a topic that has been debated to death already -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 12:59, 13 November 2009 (EST)
        • Nothing suggests an ability absolutely cannot evolve in a way that restricts its effects either, and ability evolution and how it works is far from clear. And I disagree that that "nothing suggests" an ability cannot be restricted via evolution. Off the top of my head (obviously, you can launch counterarguments to all of these points, but I do think that all of them together certainly at least suggests that an ability may be able to be limited as it evolves):
          1. One could make the argument that Maya's control over her power was part of it's evolution, and thus it was a direct restriction of the effects of said ability.
          2. Also, one could make an argument for Jeremy's ability doing this, depending on perspective. On the one hand, one could say his ability evolved to include giving AND taking life. On the other, one could argue it was restricted during the period when he could no longer heal things (likely due to his deteriorating mental state) but only kill them.
          3. We have also seen characters able to use their abilities and then unable to (often due to mental blocks and the such), even though they still retained their power, and so that could be argued to be part of the abilities evolution (ie - the person needs to adapt to having the ability to use it).
          4. We also have Tracy, who can apparently no longer use the solid form (ice) of her ability, though it is debatable whether or not water trumps ice  ;).
          5. Finally, we have Hiro and Arnold, both of whom have had their abilities limited over time with no outside catalyst (like the formula).
          • I was actually suggesting it wasn't ability replication at all, and that a remnant of Peter's ability remained even beyond Arthur's absorption of it, and has re-manifested (due to the formula) in a currently restricted way (it seems pretty convenient that he'd gain such a similar ability, even going with the whole idea of a genetic makeup being predisposed toward a certain ability). It has indeed been debated to death, but, afaik, not since new info (ie - Peter being directly called an 'empath,' albeit from a poor source) has come to light. In any case, I was just putting this here now in case we get more definitive evidence that it is the same as his original power (and that the formula just "got it going again"), and am still not suggesting we reopen the official debate or change anything on the site. --Stevehim 01:02, 15 November 2009 (EST)
            • In my opinion, Edgar calling Peter an "Empath" was probably just due to the nature of replicating abilities. It's possible that Peter (other than useless Draph) is the first and only example of this particular tactile mimicry, and Edgar simply assumed that he had empathic mimicry. Being associated with the carnival, and a wide variety of different abilities, not to mention the current theory that Joseph himself was a mimic, Edgar probably recognized the effects of that ability from previous experience, and recounted it to Samuel as Empathic Mimicry. I could be mistaken, but it's really the only conclusion that makes sense. In essence Peter is still a mimic, it's only the method that's changed. Assuming that it's a unique ability, to an observer unfamiliar with it, it would look, just like empathic mimicry. Fourletterfame 01:26, 15 November 2009 (EST)
              • Maya getting more control over her ability is an evolution, but not a restrictive form. She has more control, but she was still able to affect everyone in her range, she didn't lose that ability when she gained control. Jeremy being able to kill only is a psychological effect, not a biological restriction. Same with people who were afraid of using their abilities, they can do it, they just don't want to because they're scared. Nothing suggests Tracy was ever able to become solid ice, she froze because she was wet and used the ice part of her power, she's still able to freeze things, as shown when she attacked Noah and Edgar. Hiro and Arnold have nothing to do with the catalyst. Hiro became sick because he started doing something with his ability that he wasn't supposed to, taking people to his "frozen time" perspective. We know nothing about Arnold, he could have simply developed cancer because of his old age. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 08:22, 15 November 2009 (EST)
                • As I said, you can launch counterarguments to all of the examples presented. however, those are more subjective than "fact," and counter-counterarguments can be made as well.
  1. If you assert that Maya's control over her power was an evolution that was not restrictive, than when she loses control that would be the restrictive form, and she does lose control prior to gaining it, at least momentarily (and almost kills crazy-Mohinder before he convinces her not to).
  2. Jeremy's "switch" was most likely a psychological effect, and this has happened to others as well. However, to say that there was no biological shift along with it is presuming (as is saying there is a biological shift with it), and thus inconclusive. The biology/physiology of these abilities has never, to my knowledge, been made clear. We have a random comment about codons in Season 1 with regards to Sylar, some very vague comments by Mohinder connecting it to adrenaline later, and an aside by Angela about Nathan being "predisposed" toward gaining an artificial power, and that is about all we know about the biology side, afaik. That hardly lets us know what is going on, and is not remotely enough information to make conclusions about how the psychological/biological effects play into the powers evolving. And "power evolution" can be argued to be psychological as well, in any case. Peter's control over his initial ability was far more psychological than biological in S1 (the evidence suggests), if you consider his control an evolution of his powers (though obviously that was not restrictive).
  3. I'm not sure what you mean about Tracy. You say nothing suggests she could become solid and then state she froze by using the ice part of her power...ice is the solid phase of water. However, I did forget that she still uses her power to freeze, so I withdraw that particular example.
  4. When are we told what aspect of his power made Hiro sick? I have only seen each episode once, so may have missed it, but I don't recall that being stated at all. Nor do I recall it being stated that any aspect of his ability was an "improper" use of power. I'm also not sure what you mean by "the catalyst." Are you talking about this? If so, what does that have to do with the evolution of abilities? That was just what allowed the formula to bond to human DNA, not what determines powers evolving (and it had a lot to do with Hiro, as he was the catalyst until Arthur stole it from him  ;)). As for Arnold, it is all speculation at this point, but we do know that his his body was unable to stand the strain of using the ability to teleport Charlie, and that is why he died...not because of cancer (iirc....Samuel told this to Hiro directly...whether Samuel is lying is another matter...). I think it was also stated a few times that the strain of using the power is what put Arnold in his current condition, but I'd have to go back and check for specific examples on that front. --Stevehim 04:29, 16 November 2009 (EST)