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The time-stopping.
I'd keep that in there and move the "may or may not have" section. It makes sense to keep at least one occurance of each power in that list, and put the powers used more than once (invisibility, telekinesis) on the examples page. --Riddler 00:41, 2 March 2007 (EST)
- I went back and forth on that example. Because there was so much talk about it, I figured I'd take it out of the main page. It doesn't really matter one way or the other though, since it's on the examples of empathic mimicry page. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:45, 2 March 2007 (EST)
- I am still on the side that he did not stop time ---- And I think that the episode "Parasite" proves it. Sylar used TK to stop the bullet in midair --- much like Peter used TK to stop the tazers. I am now completely confident that I am right. I was a little iffy about it and was more like "Well there is not enough evidence to prove either way" and was hoping that it would be moved to unconfirmed. However, now I think people should totally not convey that it was STM until there is more proof that Peter can use STM. But I know that that will never happen on this board.Guy 09:30, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- All I can say is listen to the audio when Peter is shot with the tazer. It's the biggest giveaway that he stopped time to do it. Just because two powers can be uses to stop a bullet doesn't mean they're the same power. (Admin 09:35, 7 March 2007 (EST))
- Okay so that is one point of evidence to four or five counter evidence that Peter used TK. If Hiro stopped time, that means that Peter could not absorb his ability, because it takes TIME to absorb an ability. He is normally in the vicinity for at least a few moments usually minutes. If there was not just a short amount of time, but NO TIME then he could not absorb that ability. Claude is moving during the scene. If he would have stopped time that does not explain why it just dropped to the ground. Sylar, who to this point has never produced anything similar to STM, completed the same feat with TK. At no other time, does Peter show that he can use STM (other than this mentioned here). Hiro has the ability to move and manipulate things during STM and can STM with objects and other people making it completely simple to "awaken" peter during the time stop scene (especially after many 'unconfirmed' years of study and discipline to hone a skill) I am convinced that Peter not only didn't use STM, but CAN'T use STM till he meets Hiro in person, which I discern, is the significance of him only meeting Ando in Texas.
- Nobody on this board has denied that Peter used TK with the Taser darts. The point of contention is not whether he used TK, it's whether he used STM. Evidence in favor of the former does not count as evidence against the latter. Since there is solid give-away evidence that he did use STM, and there has been no good evidence presented that he did not, it should stand as probable that he did.--E rowe 11:28, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- Also, as to there being other evidence that Peter can use STM, we already have it. He used it when he met Future Hiro.--E rowe 11:30, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- It should also be noted that Peter spent a few minutes (from his point of view) talking with Future Hiro, so he definitely had the opportunity to absorb the power. --Ted C 11:33, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- Since I'm not sure if these boards have really laid out the evidence that Peter absorbed STM when he met Future Hiro, I'll do that now. The scene begins with a shot panning around the people in the subway car frozen in time before it zooms back to show the back of Future Hiro walking alone. The audience can then see both Mohindar and Peter standing frozen in time at the end of the car. When Hiro gets close Peter unfreezes because of having absorbed Hiro's power when he came in range. Peter turns around and Hiro takes a second before recognizing him. Although it is now apparent that Hiro can extend the use of his power to include others, and Future Hiro is presumably more skilled with is power than we have seen with present Hiro, the order of events in the subway indicate that Peter was not brought into the time freeze by Hiro, but he entered it himself before Hiro recognized him.--E rowe 11:57, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- The idea that Peter used space-time manipulation is pretty clear to me. However, since there have such ardent dissenters, we have tried to make it quite vague. It's listed on the examples page as an absorbed power. On this page, it's listed under the limits as a reproduced power, but the only example is listed as a "possible example". It's also listed on Peter's page. In the end, we have to mention it, since so many believe it's quite clear. However, we must also recognize those that strongly believe otherwise. Because it's a somewhat gray area, I think we have done a nice job of straddling the line to appease both camps. Calling it a "possible example" allows for doubt, and mentioning Future Hiro lends support. I think our wording has handled the situation as best as possible. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:23, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- The wording is "Peter slowed and then stopped time when attacked with taser darts" and doesn't appear to leave ANY room for doubt. rewording it to something like "Peter possibly slowed and then stopped time when attacked with taser darts" and make some mention of the possibility of it being TK.--Joedu 15:34, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
- I think when Peter is having his vision with Charles in it, he asks if he is time-travelling. To me this suggested that he knows he can manipulate time, but not able to really control it, especially since he's passed out. OUChevelleSS 13:46, 22 May 2007 (EDT)
- The wording is "Peter slowed and then stopped time when attacked with taser darts" and doesn't appear to leave ANY room for doubt. rewording it to something like "Peter possibly slowed and then stopped time when attacked with taser darts" and make some mention of the possibility of it being TK.--Joedu 15:34, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
- The idea that Peter used space-time manipulation is pretty clear to me. However, since there have such ardent dissenters, we have tried to make it quite vague. It's listed on the examples page as an absorbed power. On this page, it's listed under the limits as a reproduced power, but the only example is listed as a "possible example". It's also listed on Peter's page. In the end, we have to mention it, since so many believe it's quite clear. However, we must also recognize those that strongly believe otherwise. Because it's a somewhat gray area, I think we have done a nice job of straddling the line to appease both camps. Calling it a "possible example" allows for doubt, and mentioning Future Hiro lends support. I think our wording has handled the situation as best as possible. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:23, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- Since I'm not sure if these boards have really laid out the evidence that Peter absorbed STM when he met Future Hiro, I'll do that now. The scene begins with a shot panning around the people in the subway car frozen in time before it zooms back to show the back of Future Hiro walking alone. The audience can then see both Mohindar and Peter standing frozen in time at the end of the car. When Hiro gets close Peter unfreezes because of having absorbed Hiro's power when he came in range. Peter turns around and Hiro takes a second before recognizing him. Although it is now apparent that Hiro can extend the use of his power to include others, and Future Hiro is presumably more skilled with is power than we have seen with present Hiro, the order of events in the subway indicate that Peter was not brought into the time freeze by Hiro, but he entered it himself before Hiro recognized him.--E rowe 11:57, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- Okay so that is one point of evidence to four or five counter evidence that Peter used TK. If Hiro stopped time, that means that Peter could not absorb his ability, because it takes TIME to absorb an ability. He is normally in the vicinity for at least a few moments usually minutes. If there was not just a short amount of time, but NO TIME then he could not absorb that ability. Claude is moving during the scene. If he would have stopped time that does not explain why it just dropped to the ground. Sylar, who to this point has never produced anything similar to STM, completed the same feat with TK. At no other time, does Peter show that he can use STM (other than this mentioned here). Hiro has the ability to move and manipulate things during STM and can STM with objects and other people making it completely simple to "awaken" peter during the time stop scene (especially after many 'unconfirmed' years of study and discipline to hone a skill) I am convinced that Peter not only didn't use STM, but CAN'T use STM till he meets Hiro in person, which I discern, is the significance of him only meeting Ando in Texas.
- All I can say is listen to the audio when Peter is shot with the tazer. It's the biggest giveaway that he stopped time to do it. Just because two powers can be uses to stop a bullet doesn't mean they're the same power. (Admin 09:35, 7 March 2007 (EST))
- I am still on the side that he did not stop time ---- And I think that the episode "Parasite" proves it. Sylar used TK to stop the bullet in midair --- much like Peter used TK to stop the tazers. I am now completely confident that I am right. I was a little iffy about it and was more like "Well there is not enough evidence to prove either way" and was hoping that it would be moved to unconfirmed. However, now I think people should totally not convey that it was STM until there is more proof that Peter can use STM. But I know that that will never happen on this board.Guy 09:30, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- Not that NBC has the best track record when it comes to accuracy, but I'll mention for posterity that on the Heroes site one of their pictures from the episode is explained as "While Claude and Peter discuss evolution on the rooftop, a dart hits Claude in the neck – the Haitian and Mr. Bennet have come calling. Peter stops the dart meant for him by freezing time. He then throws Claude off the rooftop and flies to the rescue in order to make their escape." (Admin 00:16, 16 May 2007 (EDT))
- After reviewing a video of the scene in question, it seemed that the darts fell to the ground after Peter supposedly froze time. If Peter froze time, wouldn't the darts just continue to strike him after he stopped the timefreeze? Additionally, it appears that the darts were quivering in mid-air. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9xcdfJfQ6Y) Thrashmeister 21:10, 7 June 2007 (EDT)
- Yes, the darts would continue if Peter only used Hiro's power, but the consensus is that Peter froze time, then used telekinesis to drop the darts. The thing that made it obvious that Peter stopped time was that Bennet and the Haitian were frozen in time.--Ice Vision 21:14, 7 June 2007 (EDT)
- People keep saying that the sound effects prove that Peter stopped time. However, when watching the episodes online, I've noticed that whenever Hiro stops time, there is a very distinctive sound, and it's nothing like what we hear when Peter stops the taser darts in Unexpected. You can listen to samples of the time stopping sound here: [1] [2] [3] [4] from One Giant Leap, Godsend, Five Years Gone (this time it's Future Peter), and The Hard Part, respectively. You can listen to the scene from Unexpected here: [5]. We never hear that time stopping sound when Peter stops the tasers. I don't think we hear anything but the clicking noise slowing down. We never hear the background noise slowing down when Hiro stops time, either. Even in One Giant Leap when he stops time midway through the truck crash, the sound of the truck crashing into the stall simply stops. It doesn't sound like the scene of Hiro slowing then reversing time for Hope's gun and bullet either. You can listen to that scene here: [6] Also, we never hear the clicking noise start again in Unexpected. If he had stopped time, shouldn't the noise have started back up again as soon as time restarted? Conduit 18:12, 11 June 2007 (EDT)
- I can listen to it again, but once time started back up I heard the taser clicking resume briefly. (Admin 18:27, 11 June 2007 (EDT))
- I don't hear anything like that. Shortly after the taser darts start dropping, if I listen closely, I can just barely make out something that sounds a little like crickets (it might be part of the music), but it's very different from the taser clicking sound. Listen to the beginning with the clicking sound, then skip directly to the end, and you'll see the difference. Conduit 18:46, 11 June 2007 (EDT)
- So, does anyone else have anything to say about this? Conduit 12:27, 17 June 2007 (EDT)
- Nope. Consensus is already that it is indeed an example of him stopping time plus as supporting evidence NBC's site says he stopped time (see above). If new material (such as an interview where they discuss that scene) is released then we can revisit this issue. (Admin 12:39, 17 June 2007 (EDT))
- Agree, Admin. You know, I was a little skeptical of what power it was after the first viewing way back when, and so I stayed out of the conversation a bit. Since then I've watched that scene may 8 or 9 times in different contexts, and it seems very obvious to me (from visual clues and audio clues) that Peter stopped time to stop the tasers in midair, then used telekinesis to make them drop to the ground. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:55, 17 June 2007 (EDT)
- Nope. Consensus is already that it is indeed an example of him stopping time plus as supporting evidence NBC's site says he stopped time (see above). If new material (such as an interview where they discuss that scene) is released then we can revisit this issue. (Admin 12:39, 17 June 2007 (EDT))
- I can listen to it again, but once time started back up I heard the taser clicking resume briefly. (Admin 18:27, 11 June 2007 (EDT))
Two things on the time stopping
How could it be TK with the sound effects? Also if you look, there is no blinking electrical light from the Haitian's tazer. There is on Bennet's before contact with Claude. Claude is also moving very slowly, definitely not spasming as quickly as he would with voltage moving through his body.
In response to 'Peter didn't have enough contact with Future Hiro to absorb his power', he had just about as much contact time as he did with Claire prior to healing, and he still was able to use it. OUChevelleSS 17:23, 4 May 2007 (EDT)
(Sorry I'm new, feel free to move this into the other thread where I intended, unless I figure it out first).
Multi-power Use
I'm having an issue with the whole "invisibility and TK" at the same time claim. As I said, you can't conclusively say that someone who is invisible is using telekinesis, unless he's partially visible while the cup is moving toward him. Is there an image from the episode that would settle this question? --Ted C 16:24, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
Here ya go.--Ice Vision 16:31, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
- OK, I can work with that. I'm wondering if we should use it in the article. --Ted C 16:34, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
- I've fiddled with working it into the page. It won't work as a thumb. Is this acceptable? Any other options? --Ted C 16:41, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
- An animation only works when it's at full size. It looks fine on the page. I've also put the same image into the galleries of examples of empathic mimicry, examples of invisibility and examples of telekinesis. It doesn't animate unless you click on the image, so the caption reads something like "Watch as Peter uses two powers at once." — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:19, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
- Animations are also very large files and should be used very sparingly. Personally I'd rather we didn't use them in articles at all. They're often over 10x larger than static images. (Admin 22:13, 29 May 2007 (EDT))
- An animation only works when it's at full size. It looks fine on the page. I've also put the same image into the galleries of examples of empathic mimicry, examples of invisibility and examples of telekinesis. It doesn't animate unless you click on the image, so the caption reads something like "Watch as Peter uses two powers at once." — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:19, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
- I've fiddled with working it into the page. It won't work as a thumb. Is this acceptable? Any other options? --Ted C 16:41, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
- I noticed that he starts to turn visible almost immediately after the cup begins to move. Isn't it possible that he switched to telekinesis without turning visible first, and it took a short time for the invisibility to fade? In The Fix, after Claude walks out of Peter's range (we see him fade from view from Peter's perspective), Peter stays invsible for a few seconds before fading back into view. Conduit 19:11, 22 May 2007 (EDT)
- It's possible, but I think any conclusion remains speculative and not deductively established. It's possible that he just hadn't learned to control the ability to become invisible when not in Claude's presence. It's possible to argue that Peter's invisibility faded due to the psychological compulsion/fear of seeing the source of the invisibility walk away. Because this was a future timeline, it's also possible that multiple power use is something Peter doesn't gain until after a long time of training/experience. My observation for the above image is that the cup completes most of its movement before Peter even starts to become visible. And even this is debatable with any number of complicating factors such as whether the TK is used just to give the cup an initial tug and it slides to a stop due to regular friction, or whether he uses TK all the way from start to stop, etc.. --Glue 19:53, 22 May 2007 (EDT)
From the most recent Behind the Eclipse: [7]
"Shaun asks, 'Was the fact that Nathan was needed to fly Peter away just done for dramatic effect since Peter has flight, too, or does this prove Peter only has access to one power at a time?'
It’s the latter. Peter even says, 'I can’t stop it. I can’t do anything.” Peter was helpless. There were two options. Kill Peter. Or Nathan could fly him away and try to save them all. Now, if Peter or Nathan survived and how – remains to be seen.'"
So it's quite possible that scene in Five Years Gone was a mistake. I've added this to the notes. Conduit 18:05, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
- I don't think it was a mistake, I think what the writers meant was that Peter couldn't use his other powers while he was going nuclear, not that he can never use more than one power at a time. Come to think of it, when Peter and Claude have their fight with broom handles in Unexpected, they're invisible and Peter uses psychokinesis.--Pearse 18:42, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
- Right, I believe the writers were referring to that particular moment at Kirby Plaza, not in general. However, it is unclear in the interview, so the Notes is the best place for the info. But even if the statement were taken as you're interpreting it, I'm still not sure the scene in 5YG is a mistake. Five years is a long time to learn to control and access more than one power at a time. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:02, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
- I agree, there are many ways for one to interpret an interview. He seemed to be talking about the moment at Kirby Plaza, nothing else. It would be extremely pathetic and disappointing if Peter could only use one power at a time.--Ice Vision 21:46, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
- You guys might have already covered this, I might be going over old ground but I thought my two cents might come in handy - Peter was having considerable trouble controlling one highly unstable power (Ted's), it seems like all of his concentration was being used to keep this power in check, using flight would have meant abandoning this control over his radioactivity, possibly resulting in him going nuclear soon after he takes off. In the future when he uses two powers at once they are powers he has had plenty of experience with and (it looks like) he can control with minimal effort hence controlling the two powers at once is not a problem like controlling a newly acquired, highly volatile power must be. Sorry about the thesis I just love discussing Heroes theories :).
- I agree, there are many ways for one to interpret an interview. He seemed to be talking about the moment at Kirby Plaza, nothing else. It would be extremely pathetic and disappointing if Peter could only use one power at a time.--Ice Vision 21:46, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
- Right, I believe the writers were referring to that particular moment at Kirby Plaza, not in general. However, it is unclear in the interview, so the Notes is the best place for the info. But even if the statement were taken as you're interpreting it, I'm still not sure the scene in 5YG is a mistake. Five years is a long time to learn to control and access more than one power at a time. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:02, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
- I think that as of Kindred the limits section needs to be updated, because Peter definitely healed while pinning Will against the wall with his telekinesis. O'course, it might be a good idea to add that some powers may be/are easier to double up b/c they require less concentration and/or are automatic (i.e. the regeneration), or something. Altho, if that does get worked into the article, please phrase that better. --Spellingbee 23:43, 15 November 2007 (EST)
- Because there have been quite alot of multi-power useage examples by Peter and Sylar; and they are occuring more often with the future arc counterparts as well; I've created a page specifically to catalogue and reference all of the examples of when this has occurred; here: Examples of simultaneous powers --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/9/2008 12:51 (EST)
Empathic Mimicry and just Empathy
I just watched Genesis again some days ago and didn't think of this until now. Peter said that when his father died, he felt it. I'm thinking that empathy was the first power Peter absorbed, possibly from his father because he mentions that he felt connected to him. --User:Rockyrojas88
- Claude calls Peter an "Empath"; mimicry is just one of the effects of Empathy. --Ted C 07:20, 16 May 2007 (EDT)
- ah, okay then thanks for clearing that up --User:Rockyrojas88
- Didn't Angela Petrelli say Peter had a heart just like his father (in addition to the 'depression', etc)? Maybe mimicry is Peter's power and he has just had empathy the whole time from his father as a young child, making being empathic (to people in general) something of Peter's core. Just a thought. OUChevelleSS 19:13, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
- Peter's power is empathy. It's not his father's, and I don't think Angela ever said that. Do you remember the episode?--Ice Vision 19:28, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
- can we change the name of this power classification to genetic mimicry? empathy is the sharing of emotions, not abilities.DawnTreader
- Peter mimics the abilities of others, but he recalls their abilities by remembering (consciously or unconsciously, as is currently the case) how they made him feel. His empathy for others allows the mimicry.--Hardvice (talk) 11:32, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
- I tried to have it changed to just plan Power Mimicry in the past but because of the fact that Peter was called an empath (even though anyone can be considered one) and that he, in order to reuse the powers, has to remember how the person "made him feel" we decided to go with Empathic Mimicry. I agree that is should be just plain Power Mimicry because Empathy is the ability to sense others emotions and manipulate them even. Now in his current situation with no memory of the past, how is he able to use those powers when he can't even remember the people that used them orginally and how they made him feel is the only arguement I have to make.--The Empath 16:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
- Well, he's still feeling the emotions, even if he isn't relating them to the people he learned the power from. Look how out of control his anger got when he mimicked telekinesis against Will.--Hardvice (talk) 16:41, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
- And that particular situation led some to claim that he acts like the person he's mimicked the power from. So when he's using one of Sylar's powers, he's like Sylar, and so on.-- Lost Soul talk contribs 16:44, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
- Can't we call his power Power Mimicry or possibly Empathic Power Mimicry. Empathic mimicry makes no sense according to Peter's power. In fact it doesn't make any sense at all. Hardvice, while you're right about how easily his anger gets out of control in conjunction with telekinesis and it has happened before in Unexpected in the climatic showdown over Simone and other crap between Peter and Isaac. I disagree that he becomes like the people who his is mimicing. He doesn't become like Elle when he starts throwing lightning bolts nor he acts D.L. when he phases nor acts like Claire when he regenerates. Elemental5293 21:03, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- I just assumed he was acting like Sylar because he was inadvertently activating intuitive aptitude. -- Signyour Poste
- Can't we call his power Power Mimicry or possibly Empathic Power Mimicry. Empathic mimicry makes no sense according to Peter's power. In fact it doesn't make any sense at all. Hardvice, while you're right about how easily his anger gets out of control in conjunction with telekinesis and it has happened before in Unexpected in the climatic showdown over Simone and other crap between Peter and Isaac. I disagree that he becomes like the people who his is mimicing. He doesn't become like Elle when he starts throwing lightning bolts nor he acts D.L. when he phases nor acts like Claire when he regenerates. Elemental5293 21:03, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- And that particular situation led some to claim that he acts like the person he's mimicked the power from. So when he's using one of Sylar's powers, he's like Sylar, and so on.-- Lost Soul talk contribs 16:44, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
- Well, he's still feeling the emotions, even if he isn't relating them to the people he learned the power from. Look how out of control his anger got when he mimicked telekinesis against Will.--Hardvice (talk) 16:41, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
- I tried to have it changed to just plan Power Mimicry in the past but because of the fact that Peter was called an empath (even though anyone can be considered one) and that he, in order to reuse the powers, has to remember how the person "made him feel" we decided to go with Empathic Mimicry. I agree that is should be just plain Power Mimicry because Empathy is the ability to sense others emotions and manipulate them even. Now in his current situation with no memory of the past, how is he able to use those powers when he can't even remember the people that used them orginally and how they made him feel is the only arguement I have to make.--The Empath 16:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
- Peter mimics the abilities of others, but he recalls their abilities by remembering (consciously or unconsciously, as is currently the case) how they made him feel. His empathy for others allows the mimicry.--Hardvice (talk) 11:32, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
- Didn't Angela Petrelli say Peter had a heart just like his father (in addition to the 'depression', etc)? Maybe mimicry is Peter's power and he has just had empathy the whole time from his father as a young child, making being empathic (to people in general) something of Peter's core. Just a thought. OUChevelleSS 19:13, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
- ah, okay then thanks for clearing that up --User:Rockyrojas88
He wasn't. Not until "I Have Become Death".--ERROR 10:11, 7 June 2009 (EDT)
Peter's power collection
Under Limits, it states that Peter does not necessarilly have to see a power being used in order to absorb it and cites Ted's power of induced radioactivity as an example. However, the information on induced radioactivity states that he cannot consistently control his powers, particularly when agitated. I believe Peter can only pick up powers that are used in his vicinity, whether consciously (like Claude's invisibility) or naturally (like Claire's regeneration). Ted potentially covers both.
This would explain why Peter has not exhibited the powers of many of the people he has come in contact with, particularly Sylar, from whom he only seems to have gained telekinesis, which Sylar directly used on him. However, under Theories, it's indicated that creators have confirmed that Peter picked up all of Sylar's powers, but there is no citation for this. Does anyone have the link to the interview? --Nightxade 11:44, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
I was unsure about this too, but I noticed Peter has Phasing (presumably from D.L) yet he has never witnessed D.L using it. In fact, the only time I recall Peter seeing D.L (when not phasing) was when everyone was in Kirby Plaza, D.L was on the ground in pain since he had been shot by Linderman. D.L's power seems to be used consciously and he had a very high level of control on it. Peter must have copied this power just in the presence of D.L. Yet, he has shown no signs of Sylar's other powers when he is in his presence. --Dave
- And now it's even more confusing with Peter's memory loss. At first one could assume that if he didn't know about the power, he couldn't use it, such as Eden's Persuasion. With the TK, he saw Sylar use it before, so he knew it existed, and therefore, could use it. Now, with his memory loss, you can argue that he doesn't remember a thing about anyone, and therefore can't use any of his powers...the fact that he can means that not only can all the powers he's been around be used by him, but the theory that he needs to think, or 'feel', about the person to use it, is pretty much out the window. In the GN, Petrified Lightning, we see Peter thinking of Caitlin and his electromagnetism works, after a few attempts at getting it to work by itself. BUT, he used it as a instinctive defensive reaction in the cargo crate...If you weren't confused before, and now are, I'm sorry :P --Felixdakat 05:09, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
- So if Sylar consumes powers along the way like he has with Michelle's power, will Peter have that power as well or at least be able to resist it? Or is it a one time thing where the first time he met Sylar that was it, any powers at first meet is all he'll ever get. If Peter maxes out his powers at first meet he will not get the pin drop hearing or liquefaction abilities.-Dogbert 05:54, 13 November 2007 (PST)
- I think Peter has to know the ability exist. His mother, father, Bob, and Eden all had powers and were in close contact with him but he doesn't know that they have powers or what they are. But theorhetically all he has to do is think of them and he has their powers. He should've thought of that. As of Sylar, I think he has to witness or know of Sylar's other powers and have another feeling or emotion towards Sylar for each ability such as cryokinesis, eidetic memory, superhuman hearing, liquefication, intuitive aptitude, etc. Elemental5293 21:12, 4 January 2008 (EST)
Claude's remark under Notes
Claude says that it is "fitting for an "empath" to be a nurse". This is most likely not a reference to a previously nurse with powers reminiscent of Peter's that Claude may have known but a quip on the fact that nurses can be said to require a level of empathy on the job, an ability to relate to the patient. Claude is essentially making a pun, most likely not referring to a previous aquaintance. If noone objects to this reasoning I'll come back and delete this statement at a later date. --Marshmellis 22:47, 5 November 2007 (EST)
- IMO, b/c it's a pun on the power, it can go in the notes section. Any other opinions? --Spellingbee 23:46, 15 November 2007 (EST)
- Agreed. Marshmellis is missing the point; it doesn't matter whether it's a pun or not. He classified Peter as an "empath", which is worth noting on a page about his power. Nurses only enter into it because, as noted, it's a job that requires empathy. However, what's important is that Claude classifies Peter (and presumably others) as empaths, which is a reference to his power.--Hardvice (talk) 23:52, 15 November 2007 (EST)
- Given the heirarchy of name choices now clarified in the template, would it not be appropriate to just name this power "Empathy"? That's the only canon term that we have for Peter's ability. --Ted C 11:54, 19 November 2007 (EST)
- It is also the name of an emotion, which is confusing. However, seeing as we have Freezing and Lightning, it does make sense. --SomeoneImportant 12:05, 19 November 2007 (EST)
- What we have is "an empath", which is a canon description of the user, like what we have for "precognition", based on "precog" (except that "precognition" is also mentioned explicitly in Heroes Evolutions). When the canon source is a description, we can use that to make a canon-source name; usually, that's as easy as changing the part of speech ("fly" to "flight", "invisible" to "invisibility".) In Isaac's case, were it not for Heroes Evolutions, we probably could have opted for "precognitive painting" or the like and still been accurate, because "precog" would still describe someone with that ability. In this case, I think we may still need the "mimicry" side of things to get across that he copies powers, because "empathy" doesn't do that on its own. Someone who uses empathic mimicry would be empathic, and by extension an empath, but not all empaths would be able to mimic superpowers, which is why right now Claude's description is treated as a source for a descriptive name. I think it's fair to say that the canon description of Peter as an "empath" fits with the power "empathic mimicry" as readily as it does with "empathy", and "empathic mimicry" is less speculative because he hasn't shown any abilities traditionally encompassed by "empathy". It's also arguably not clear that a reference to Peter as an empath is a reference to his ability and not his personality, so I don't really mind that here, a description of a power is based on a canon-source statement about the wielder of the power. However, if we want to treat it identically to other names derived from descriptions like "flight", that's fine, too. Note, just to cut off any unnecessary wank, that "lightning" has nothing to with this conversation--the ability itself has been referred to as "lightning", so we're not deriving anything from a description in that case.--Hardvice (talk) 13:41, 19 November 2007 (EST)
- Thanks for that breakdown, Hardvice. You have a way of organizing information in very clear way that flows nicely. Your organization makes a long read like the one above easy. It's important to note that in this case, Claude's comment is being used to describe the power rather than to outright name it. If anybody would like to read more discussion about it, there's this link. There's a lot more discussion on the site about the topic, but I'm not really in the mood to track it down right now. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:50, 19 November 2007 (EST)
- What we have is "an empath", which is a canon description of the user, like what we have for "precognition", based on "precog" (except that "precognition" is also mentioned explicitly in Heroes Evolutions). When the canon source is a description, we can use that to make a canon-source name; usually, that's as easy as changing the part of speech ("fly" to "flight", "invisible" to "invisibility".) In Isaac's case, were it not for Heroes Evolutions, we probably could have opted for "precognitive painting" or the like and still been accurate, because "precog" would still describe someone with that ability. In this case, I think we may still need the "mimicry" side of things to get across that he copies powers, because "empathy" doesn't do that on its own. Someone who uses empathic mimicry would be empathic, and by extension an empath, but not all empaths would be able to mimic superpowers, which is why right now Claude's description is treated as a source for a descriptive name. I think it's fair to say that the canon description of Peter as an "empath" fits with the power "empathic mimicry" as readily as it does with "empathy", and "empathic mimicry" is less speculative because he hasn't shown any abilities traditionally encompassed by "empathy". It's also arguably not clear that a reference to Peter as an empath is a reference to his ability and not his personality, so I don't really mind that here, a description of a power is based on a canon-source statement about the wielder of the power. However, if we want to treat it identically to other names derived from descriptions like "flight", that's fine, too. Note, just to cut off any unnecessary wank, that "lightning" has nothing to with this conversation--the ability itself has been referred to as "lightning", so we're not deriving anything from a description in that case.--Hardvice (talk) 13:41, 19 November 2007 (EST)
- It is also the name of an emotion, which is confusing. However, seeing as we have Freezing and Lightning, it does make sense. --SomeoneImportant 12:05, 19 November 2007 (EST)
- Given the heirarchy of name choices now clarified in the template, would it not be appropriate to just name this power "Empathy"? That's the only canon term that we have for Peter's ability. --Ted C 11:54, 19 November 2007 (EST)
- Agreed. Marshmellis is missing the point; it doesn't matter whether it's a pun or not. He classified Peter as an "empath", which is worth noting on a page about his power. Nurses only enter into it because, as noted, it's a job that requires empathy. However, what's important is that Claude classifies Peter (and presumably others) as empaths, which is a reference to his power.--Hardvice (talk) 23:52, 15 November 2007 (EST)
Carbonizing the virus: Example of two powers at once
Peter uses another example of two powers at once. 1) Induced radioactivity to turn the virus into carbon, and 2) Enhanced strength to press his hands together tight enough to seal in a nuclear reaction. Otherwise, the nuclear reaction required to carbonize the virus would have also taken out several city blocks. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 12/3/2007 23:16 (EST)
- That's ... uh ... an interesting theory. Of course, since it took Niki several minutes to bash down a sturdy door, the idea of using her strength to contain a nuclear explosion is a bit ... far-fetched. I think it's safer to assume either 1) the amount of radiation used to destroy the virus was a lot less than a nuclear reaction or 2)a wizard did it.--Hardvice (talk) 00:06, 4 December 2007 (EST)
- Well, I guess that just also proves that he used his telekinesis to supliment his enhanced strength. Joser Kyind 00:09, 4 December 2007 (EST)
- I think we're thinking too hard.--Ice Vision 00:11, 4 December 2007 (EST)
- Ding ding ding! There were a lot of those moments in this episode. I thought it was a great episode, provided you don't dig too deeply into a lot of things.--Hardvice (talk) 00:15, 4 December 2007 (EST)
- Yeah, like why didn't he just phase through the door? It seemed to work well enough to get Adam and he out of the company's facility. ;) Sometimes you just need to sit back and enjoy the ride. (Admin 01:05, 4 December 2007 (EST))
- You know under ordinary circumstances, it wouldn't take Niki several minutes to break down the door. It was obviously a plot device to illustrate suspense. Niki actually is much stronger than she knows herself. You and me both saw Jessica break handcuffs sturdy and strong enough to contain an elephant. So she must be stronger than elephant. Probably because of budget contraints you don't see Niki or Jessica demonstrating this level of strength, though if you are able to toss oversized men around like ragdolls, rip the doors of a safe off, or rip people apart you're pretty strong. But Niki isn't strong enough to contain a nuclear explosion. I highly doubt that he used Niki's superhuman strength. He might have used telekinesis. But on the big door. He could have just tried to rip it off with superhuman strenght. Or just teleported Adam in. And then it was pretty cool to see Peter use Ted's radiation manipulation powers in that much of a controlled manner. Elemental5293 21:28, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- Dr. Witherson said that, and it was probably a figure of speech. Do you seriously believe that "those cuffs could keep an elephant in that chair"? Think about it. You're overestimating Niki's strength. --Ice Vision (talk) 22:36, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- It's not a question of overestimating Niki's power--sure, I'll go along with the idea that Niki could, I don't know, rip the Kirby Plaza building in half. That doesn't mean that those cuffs Niki was wearing could really contain an elephant. You're right, IV, it's a figure of speech and shouldn't be taken literally. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:53, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- I agree about Niki's power not needing to be used. Ted was immune to his own radiation, so Peter is too. That's my explanation for it. As for why Peter didn't phase through the safe door, the answer is simple: traps. They didn't know what else the Company might have stored in that safe, and if they phased in there haphazardly, then they could be hurt.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:32, 5 January 2008 (EST)
- Dr. Witherson said that, and it was probably a figure of speech. Do you seriously believe that "those cuffs could keep an elephant in that chair"? Think about it. You're overestimating Niki's strength. --Ice Vision (talk) 22:36, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- You know under ordinary circumstances, it wouldn't take Niki several minutes to break down the door. It was obviously a plot device to illustrate suspense. Niki actually is much stronger than she knows herself. You and me both saw Jessica break handcuffs sturdy and strong enough to contain an elephant. So she must be stronger than elephant. Probably because of budget contraints you don't see Niki or Jessica demonstrating this level of strength, though if you are able to toss oversized men around like ragdolls, rip the doors of a safe off, or rip people apart you're pretty strong. But Niki isn't strong enough to contain a nuclear explosion. I highly doubt that he used Niki's superhuman strength. He might have used telekinesis. But on the big door. He could have just tried to rip it off with superhuman strenght. Or just teleported Adam in. And then it was pretty cool to see Peter use Ted's radiation manipulation powers in that much of a controlled manner. Elemental5293 21:28, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- Yeah, like why didn't he just phase through the door? It seemed to work well enough to get Adam and he out of the company's facility. ;) Sometimes you just need to sit back and enjoy the ride. (Admin 01:05, 4 December 2007 (EST))
- Ding ding ding! There were a lot of those moments in this episode. I thought it was a great episode, provided you don't dig too deeply into a lot of things.--Hardvice (talk) 00:15, 4 December 2007 (EST)
- I think we're thinking too hard.--Ice Vision 00:11, 4 December 2007 (EST)
- Well, I guess that just also proves that he used his telekinesis to supliment his enhanced strength. Joser Kyind 00:09, 4 December 2007 (EST)
BBC references "Empathic Mimicry"
Just saw BBC3 special of Heroes Volume 1 name Peter's power as Empathic Mimicry. I think someone on this site came up with that, didn't they? Anyway just wanted to say that's cool for whoever it was. --SomeoneImportant 18:23, 5 December 2007 (EST)
- It was a collaborative effort. We called it "power mimicry" until Claude's comment about "empaths," at which point it shifted to "empathic mimicry."--Hardvice (talk) 18:30, 5 December 2007 (EST)
- Do you guys know how stupid that is? Empathic mimicry; what the crap is that? It's basically like he mimics the emotions of others. I think what Claude meant was that Peter is an empath because as Claude has come across at least one another power mimic. Peter is unique in that sense since he uses empathy in conjunction with his power mimicry as to use the powers of others when he close to him. It fits because when even your friends and family are gone or haved passed away, they'll always be with you in your heart. I guess that's what Charles Deveaux meant. The empathy-based power mimicry subconsciously, most likely. So, shouldn't the power be called Empathic power mimicry? Elemental5293 21:48, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- Grammatically, "empathic mimicry" does not necessarily mean "mimicking the emotions of others". Empathic is an adjective which describes the mimicry, so it means something more along the lines of "mimicking with empathy" which does describe the way in which Peter uses his ability. "Empathic mimicry" is perfectly acceptable as a term to describe the power. That said, I don't mind "empathic power mimicry", I just don't think it's necessary to add on the "power" part since it's implied and then specified in the article's text--just as we don't call flight "flying through the air" or precognition "precognition manifested through art". -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:19, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- They pegged Sylar's power as "He steals everyone elses". --SomeoneImportant 18:32, 5 December 2007 (EST)
- Do you guys know how stupid that is? Empathic mimicry; what the crap is that? It's basically like he mimics the emotions of others. I think what Claude meant was that Peter is an empath because as Claude has come across at least one another power mimic. Peter is unique in that sense since he uses empathy in conjunction with his power mimicry as to use the powers of others when he close to him. It fits because when even your friends and family are gone or haved passed away, they'll always be with you in your heart. I guess that's what Charles Deveaux meant. The empathy-based power mimicry subconsciously, most likely. So, shouldn't the power be called Empathic power mimicry? Elemental5293 21:48, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- See here. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:09, 5 December 2007 (EST)
Make it Clearer
I think this page needs to make the difference between Mimicry and Empathetic Mimicry clearer. --Tesphen 17:32, 17 December 2007 (EST)
- I think it was well explained in the lead. Do you have any suggestions? --Ice Vision (talk)
- Agree. I'm not sure what else could be added, but I'm open to ideas. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:34, 17 December 2007 (EST)
Rename?
As brought up here, we may have a cannon trump cannon situation. To quote cannon references to this power: "Peter's specific DNA allows for a blend. Like colors in a mosaic, resequencing itself to mimic the abilities of those around him."
"Like a chameleon?"
"More like a sponge. It's precisely why I've been studying him."
"Could his condition become dangerous to himself or to other people?"
"If he absorbs too much, or comes into contact with an unstable ability, then most definitely yes."
"A nurse who's an empath, very cute."
"Empath, what's that mean?"
"Means you're a pain in my ass, mate."
This power is named, in canon, something entirely different by two separate "experts." The expert in the former conversation is an independent researcher taking up his father's research in Evolved Humans. The one in the later is a former employee of an organization that has been involved with the study and employing of Evolved Humans for over 30 years. This is similar to what we experienced with Adoptive muscle memory, but there the expertise of Mohinder outweighed the expertise of Micah.
As of now, we have a synthesis of the two names.
The question: should we (a) try to determine who trumps who in this matter to yield a canon name (b) Keep the existing non-canon name that was synthesized from two good canon names, possibly redefining canon to fit this name (c) come up with something completely different? --SacValleyDweller (talk) 01:14, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- I'm not sure what you're advocating renaming it to. The information you quoted seems to imply that the current name "empathic mimicry" is appropriate. For clarification, though, the power wasn't "named" in canon rather it was described. I'm not sure if this point is relevent, but I mention it just in case since an explicit canonical naming of the power would reasonably override descriptions taken from canon sources. When scientific research in the show explicitly names an ability (as Mohinder did with adoptive muscle memory) it's essentially a special case where they're telling us in no uncertain terms what they're calling the ability. (Admin 01:22, 4 January 2008 (EST))
- My opinion is to leave it as-is, for reasons already stated by SacValleyDweller and Admin above.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:27, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- Actually, Miami, I was trying to remain neutral just to broach the subject and not advocate anything in my post. Now, with thoughts more organized, I'll advocate my position(s): I think it needs to be renamed to something more accurate and/or has more look-at-the-name-and-get-the-power qualities to it. As it stands now the current name doesn't not meet these criteria. Taken literally/at face value, the name implies "Mimicry of Empathy." Layperson: "What's so great about Empathic mimicry, he can fake empathy?" Solutions: Implementing option (c) by renaming this power to "Empathic Ability Mimicry" would address both concerns, as it gives a general sense of the ability just by reading the three words and it incorporates the two descriptions better. To simplify and address only the "look-at-the-name..." concern: implement option (a) call Mohinder the better expert and rename this as "Ability Mimicry." --SacValleyDweller (talk) 02:08, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- Check out some of the previous discussions regarding the name "empathic mimicry" on this talk page. It's already received a decent amount of discussion and since the changes don't have to do with a more canonical reference now being available the previous discussions should cover this already. "Empathic mimicry" doesn't mean "mimicry of empathy", it's an adjective describing the mimicry which, as previously discussed, is empathic in nature. (Admin 02:14, 4 January 2008 (EST))
- Indeed, I think what SVD is thinking of would be "Empathetic mimicry" (the ability to mimic [not fake] another person's feelings about something/someone).--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:23, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- But Admin, you need to say what mimicry it is? The mimicry of empathy is exactly how it sounds after you look at the word. Power mimicry or Empathic power mimicry, if you will. Elemental5293 21:52, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- Indeed, I think what SVD is thinking of would be "Empathetic mimicry" (the ability to mimic [not fake] another person's feelings about something/someone).--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:23, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- What Admin said. "Empathic" describes the kind of mimicry, not the object of the mimicry. He mimics superpowers because of his empathic connection to others. Neither "canon source" on its own constitutes a name for his ability; both together describe it and how it works very well. This is a case where we have canon sources which describe aspects of the power, but no single canon name -- it's similar to Maya's ability in that respect. With Maya, we have a canon reference to poison and a secondary reference to emission; together, they give us "poison emission", which describes the power better than either could individually. Same thing here.--Hardvice (talk) 03:30, 4 January 2008 (EST)
- Aw, it hurt my heart to see this under "Articles to be Renamed." I like Empathic Mimicry. D: But, if anything, I'd have to go with Ability Mimicry. --NellaBishop 11:11, 5 January 2008 (EST)
- I don't think it needs to change. "Ability mimicry" really doesn't cover both aspects of the power (the empathic connection and the mimicry); in that respect, it's like "mental manipulation" for the Haitian. We could call the Haitian's ability "ability suppression" or "memory modification", but neither is really complete enough to name the power. Mohinder's statement, while canon, is describing what Peter does, not how he does it. It's great that we're using it to form part of the name of Peter's power, because it describes part of his power. Claude's (canon) statement describes the other aspect of his power. There really is no conflict, and no good reason to change the name.--Hardvice (talk) 14:25, 5 January 2008 (EST)
- I don't have much of an opinion on this either way, but maybe some food for thought here: When Claude said "A nurse who's an empath, very cute.", maybe we interpreted it wrong? Maybe he was using it to describe his personality, not his abilities. Peter always shows compassion for those he loves and those he wants to protect, maybe Claude was referring to that? --Riddler 15:32, 5 January 2008 (EST)
- Claude's comment was probably a reference thrown in by the writers. Tim Kring has stated that Peter's ability is "empathy": Peter and Sylar are two halves of a similar coin. Both are able to absorb people’s powers, but in two very different ways. Peter’s is based on his empathy and his ability to connect with people and when he’s around them. Sylar actually has to take your brain and do something with it. --Ice Vision (talk) 15:41, 5 January 2008 (EST)
- I think this may be already understood, but "is based on" is different from just saying "is", or else we would simply have "empathy" as the ability's name.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:02, 5 January 2008 (EST)
- Right. And in most cases, a description describes the whole power (flight, freezing, et al.) In others, we have to assemble a power name from descriptions--and occasionally from other sources (empathic mimicry, poison emission). And in the worst cases, there's no easy way to reconcile partial descriptions so we have to make something up (mental manipulation).--Hardvice (talk) 16:16, 5 January 2008 (EST)
- I don't have much of an opinion on this either way, but maybe some food for thought here: When Claude said "A nurse who's an empath, very cute.", maybe we interpreted it wrong? Maybe he was using it to describe his personality, not his abilities. Peter always shows compassion for those he loves and those he wants to protect, maybe Claude was referring to that? --Riddler 15:32, 5 January 2008 (EST)
- I don't think it needs to change. "Ability mimicry" really doesn't cover both aspects of the power (the empathic connection and the mimicry); in that respect, it's like "mental manipulation" for the Haitian. We could call the Haitian's ability "ability suppression" or "memory modification", but neither is really complete enough to name the power. Mohinder's statement, while canon, is describing what Peter does, not how he does it. It's great that we're using it to form part of the name of Peter's power, because it describes part of his power. Claude's (canon) statement describes the other aspect of his power. There really is no conflict, and no good reason to change the name.--Hardvice (talk) 14:25, 5 January 2008 (EST)
- Check out some of the previous discussions regarding the name "empathic mimicry" on this talk page. It's already received a decent amount of discussion and since the changes don't have to do with a more canonical reference now being available the previous discussions should cover this already. "Empathic mimicry" doesn't mean "mimicry of empathy", it's an adjective describing the mimicry which, as previously discussed, is empathic in nature. (Admin 02:14, 4 January 2008 (EST))
- Bottom line, I don't think there's any good reason to change the name of Peter's power right now. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:04, 5 January 2008 (EST)
- Agreed. No renaming is necessary. -- LightSpectra 17:58, 6 January 2008 (EST)
- I think "Empathic Ability Mimicry" is a more complete name, but not really necessary. I'd get out-voted anyway. Darmenos 21:46, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
While stuck inside Jesse Murphy's body
Can he still absorb powers? If so we should add Flint, The German, and other Level 5 escapee's to his exposed to list. --Snow Leapord 08:50, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
- We don't know how Future Peter stuck him in Jesse's body, so we can't add them yet. My suspicion is that he won't absorb abilities or have access to his own, but we'll have to wait and see. (Admin 09:12, 23 September 2008 (EDT))
- I know we can't add them yet, but I thought I should bring up the subject. --Snow Leapord 09:16, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
Intuitive aptitude?
What was up with Peter and intuitive aptitude in I Am Become Death? This time, he actually had to work to absorb the power... and he's been around Sylar countless times, so why hasn't he absorbed it before? Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 23:31, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
- He probably absorbed it before, but never learned how to access it. Peter could potentially have hundreds of powers that he can't access cause he doesn't understand them. That's just my theory (there's no official explanation), but it works for me.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:36, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
- I came to the same assumption as MiamiVolts... that Sylar/Gabriel's ability is more difficult to access so Sylar had to coach him a little. To be honest, though, based on what I know about how the episodes are written the most likely explanation is simply that the writers just didn't want him to be able to use it without Sylar's help since the dialogue with Gabriel was important to the plot. (Admin 23:39, 6 October 2008 (EDT))
- Intuitive aptitude has always been different from the other powers in that at first glance it doesn't appear to be anything special. Even Chandra himself had trouble classifying it as a special ability. Peter has been shown to unconsciously absorb abilities without knowing they existed (prcg dreaming, radioactivity). He subconsiously copied Nathan's flight, but he knew it existed. I can't think of a single instance where he has consciously absorbed someone else's power except for this one. He was already exposed to IA, but since it doesn't at first glance appear to be an ability, he may not have even noticed it. When he told Sylar he needed his power, Sylar just gave him the watch and told him to access the power, just like when Claude told him to fly and pushed him off the roof. I think it was more training to access the power than actually giving him the power. What I find more interesting than all this is that when FPeter told him to "get Sylar's power" he knew exactly which one he meant, even though FSylar had at least twelve by then. --Yamawhata? 18:40, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
Empathy
"Empathy is the ability to "connect" with other people on a mental level. Empathic mimicry is an effect of this power that allows for the duplication of the superhuman abilities of other evolved humans."
This is bothering me. Are we saying that we're classifying a natural human emotion, empathy, as an evolved human ability? Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 17:47, 12 October 2008 (EDT)
- No, I think it's just an analogy to help explain how the mimicry aspect works.
Description change
I agree that we need to change the description. What it basically says is: Empathy is an ability and mimicry is a side effect.
That's completely wrong. Peter is an empath who can mimic abilities, but the empathy isn't the ability, it's what Peter uses to help recall abilities. Peter got this 'mimicry' power because he's empathic and his basic nature is 'connecting' with people, not because the ability is empathy.
Peter has said that he absorbs what those around him can do and then that he needed to remember them and the feeling he experienced to help recall these abilities.
I think a description like the following is better suited:
Mimicry is the ability to absorb and mimic the superhuman abilities of other evolved humans. Empathy is the ability to "connect" with other people, experiencing the same thoughts, feeling or attitudes. Remembering these emotions allows the holder to recall previously absorbed abilities.
--Powermimic 17:48, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
- The problem is that Peter doesn't seem to need to do that anymore, being able to just call on his powers at will (and even if he doesn't remember or know where he got them from). --Stevehim 17:59, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
- But he couldn't control them with no memory, it was more because of adrenaline... As soon as Peter got his memory back he was busting into Primatech, when a few hours before he couldn't control anything at will. --Powermimic 18:03, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
- Well, it would also be hard to reconcile that with using multiple powers at the same time, as he'd have to recall several memories at once. I think it was more of a way to get him to learn how to use his newly acquired powers, but I don't think he still needs to think about the person to use the ability (eg - he never met DL, and he can use Phasing consciously). --Stevehim 02:16, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
- Look people are confused, I've seen on different forums, "I hope Peter gets his empathy back"... He never lost it, he is the empath, his ability is mimicry/absorption. We need to make it clear that empathy is not a power. (Thanks Stevehim for editing the description). --Powermimic 01:41, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
- Problem with that is, we've had this discussion before. The majority decided to call it "Empathic Mimicry" because, at the time, Peter had to think about how the person made him feel. I agreed from the beginning that his ability is "Power Mimicry", because in comic book sense, and Empath is a person who can read/sense, affect and control the emotions of others, and obviously, Peter doesn't do that. What i'm getting at is that I would back this article being renamed "Power Mimicry" because that's what it is now. Empathy is an emotion we all have (even Sylar now :-] ).--The Empath 23:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)
- Empathy has been described as how Peter absorbs abilities from many sources including Tim Kring, that's why "mimicry" was added to the end - to describe the absorbing part. I actually think we should change the description back to what it was about a month ago. Peter doesn't seem to need to think of others to use abilities, although he may. After Arthur's comment in (It's Coming) It seems Peter does use empathy to absorb, just in Peter's case, he's "always on", so he doesn't need to try and "connect" like Sylar needed to. --Powermimic 03:19, 19 November 2008 (EST)
- Perhaps then we need to establish a connection amongst the Petrellis. The overarching power is Mimicry. The method of access is different amongst them. Peter uses Empathic Mimicry, Gabriel uses Intuitive Mimicry (also empathic now), and Arthur uses Absorptive Mimicry. Ricard Desi 12:09, 25 November 2008 (EST)
- Empathy has been described as how Peter absorbs abilities from many sources including Tim Kring, that's why "mimicry" was added to the end - to describe the absorbing part. I actually think we should change the description back to what it was about a month ago. Peter doesn't seem to need to think of others to use abilities, although he may. After Arthur's comment in (It's Coming) It seems Peter does use empathy to absorb, just in Peter's case, he's "always on", so he doesn't need to try and "connect" like Sylar needed to. --Powermimic 03:19, 19 November 2008 (EST)
- Problem with that is, we've had this discussion before. The majority decided to call it "Empathic Mimicry" because, at the time, Peter had to think about how the person made him feel. I agreed from the beginning that his ability is "Power Mimicry", because in comic book sense, and Empath is a person who can read/sense, affect and control the emotions of others, and obviously, Peter doesn't do that. What i'm getting at is that I would back this article being renamed "Power Mimicry" because that's what it is now. Empathy is an emotion we all have (even Sylar now :-] ).--The Empath 23:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)
- Look people are confused, I've seen on different forums, "I hope Peter gets his empathy back"... He never lost it, he is the empath, his ability is mimicry/absorption. We need to make it clear that empathy is not a power. (Thanks Stevehim for editing the description). --Powermimic 01:41, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
- Well, it would also be hard to reconcile that with using multiple powers at the same time, as he'd have to recall several memories at once. I think it was more of a way to get him to learn how to use his newly acquired powers, but I don't think he still needs to think about the person to use the ability (eg - he never met DL, and he can use Phasing consciously). --Stevehim 02:16, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
- But he couldn't control them with no memory, it was more because of adrenaline... As soon as Peter got his memory back he was busting into Primatech, when a few hours before he couldn't control anything at will. --Powermimic 18:03, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
Empathic Ability Absorption and Sylar
- Now that Sylar has demonstrated the ability to absorb abilities through empathy, should this page be changed to reflect this ? --TheBressman 16:46, 18 November 2008 (EST)
- For Peter yes, I think it's proven now with what Arthur told Sylar, Tim Kring's and Claude's comments that Peter does absorb abilities through empathy. Just that Peter has an empathic personality and absorbs abilities automatically because he's unconsciously "connecting" to everyone. Syalr didn't exactly use this ability, he was still using his own but through empathy to understand how they work. --Powermimic 19:58, 18 November 2008 (EST)
- Also, per this week's CBR Behind the Eclipse:
"In It's Coming, was Sylar using his ability to ‘understand how things work’ through empathy? How is this different than Peter's ability?"
It’s not. Interesting. No?
I think that makes it pretty clear from that the writers are saying Sylar is using Peter's ability.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:58, 24 November 2008 (EST)
- He definitely used the ability the same way Peter does. Now whether this is because he absorbed Peter's power or that they have the same power is still kind of vague. --Powermimic 05:40, 25 November 2008 (EST)
- No it was because Intuitive aptitude can be manifested in different forms, like the use of Precognition it has been used by Peter when awake during a power overload before he could controll it without harming him.--User:Halfbreed1426
- I still don't think it's the same ability. Perhaps the effects of what Sylar was doing in It's Coming are the exact same as empathic mimicry, I think he was still using intuitive aptitude in conjunction with empathy. Additionally, the questioner asked if "Sylar was using his ability to 'understand how things work' through empathy". When the writers replied that it wasn't different from empathic mimicry, I understood it to be two different abilities with the exact same consequences and a somewhat similar process of working. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 07:32, 25 November 2008 (EST)
- So we agree, the above quote means that he wasn't using his intuitive aptitude with Elle, and that he actually did absorb her power via empathic mimicry. I petition we add Sylar to the list, and remove the second line, since it's fairly redundant (the exact same thing is worded differently in the first). Oh, and Sylar never absorbed Peter's power. And is it just me, or does Peter no longer automatically absorb abilities when he's near other heroes? Arnor 08:00, 3 December 2008 (EST)
- No, I disagree. The way I read Aron Coleite and Joe Pokaski's comment is that both Sylar and Peter use empathy (which is a quality, or a characteristic of one's personality, not an ability) to absorb powers. That does not mean they have the same power, just that they used their respective powers in the same way. Sylar absorbed Elle's ability using intuitive aptitude, and he did that by being empathetic towards her. That's how I see it. To answer your other question, Arnor, Peter has stopped absorbing abilities because his empathic mimicry was stolen from him by his father. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:20, 3 December 2008 (EST)
- I'm not so sure. At no point during that scene do we get the impression he gets her power by understanding how she works, but rather how she feels. Which is a big difference. (I hate to bring this up again after it got so roundly squashed on the talk page for mimicry, but...) it's possible they both have access to mimicry through different means (empathy versus intuition), and Sylar just figured out how to do it through empathy. The means versus the ends. --Ricard Desi 12:04, 3 December 2008 (EST)
- No, I disagree. The way I read Aron Coleite and Joe Pokaski's comment is that both Sylar and Peter use empathy (which is a quality, or a characteristic of one's personality, not an ability) to absorb powers. That does not mean they have the same power, just that they used their respective powers in the same way. Sylar absorbed Elle's ability using intuitive aptitude, and he did that by being empathetic towards her. That's how I see it. To answer your other question, Arnor, Peter has stopped absorbing abilities because his empathic mimicry was stolen from him by his father. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:20, 3 December 2008 (EST)
- So we agree, the above quote means that he wasn't using his intuitive aptitude with Elle, and that he actually did absorb her power via empathic mimicry. I petition we add Sylar to the list, and remove the second line, since it's fairly redundant (the exact same thing is worded differently in the first). Oh, and Sylar never absorbed Peter's power. And is it just me, or does Peter no longer automatically absorb abilities when he's near other heroes? Arnor 08:00, 3 December 2008 (EST)
- I concur with Richard. There was no ticking sound, which is always there when he figures out how something works. And what I meant was he stopped (at least consciously) randomly absorbing abilities before his father took his abilities. He's been around quite a few evolved humans, but hasn't exhibited any of their abilities. I say vote to decide if Sylar has access to EM and IA or it was just another facet of his IA, or a blend of IA and empathy. All I know is that it couldn't have been IA as we know it. He didn't look at her brain, and there was no ticking accompaying it. I'm not even sure it matters, since he seems to be hell-bent on splicing people's skulls open. Also, does anyone mind if I remove the second line of the Characters section? It's pretty clear from the first that Arthur took the ability from Peter. Arnor 15:54, 9 December 2008 (EST)
- The way I see it, he just used his own IA in a different way: his ability is to understand how things work, but in that instance he understood things from another perspective, an emotional one, but it was still "understanding how things work", not empathic mimicry, which is mimicking an ability and by remembering how it felt access it. I see this as something analogous to Ted's EMP, his ability is induced radioactivity, not magnetism, but he was still able to release an electromagnetic pulse. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:45, 9 December 2008 (EST)
- Intuative Aptitude in no way should be able to give Sylar powers. Intuative Aptitude is simply the ability to understand how things work. Looking at it from this angle makes it very clear that Sylar has been using Empathic Mimicry all along, and that Intuative Aptitude is simply one of the powers he unknowingly picked up with it. Setlik0 3:14, 10 December 2008 (EST)
- Then the series has proved you wrong many times now. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 09:55, 10 December 2008 (EST)
- Not really, all of the powers that Sylar would have gained through what we thought at first was Intuative Aptitude, are now explained as being gained through Empathic Mimicry.
- My theory (which I stole from someone - can't remember who, but I like it) as to what makes Sylar tick (pun intended) is that since TPTB said abilities come from a common gene, it's the person's personality/situtation that influences which power they get (or something along those lines). This being so, I reckon there is a specific set of neuron pathways which controls the activation of the power in their brain. Sylar, seeing how the ability works, can duplicate these pathways, similar to learning a new skill. This would also explain how abilities develop - new pathways are created (analogous to learning a new application for a skill). It should be possible for any other EH to develop a totally new ability if they could understand exactly how it works. (This could even explain the Haitian - think neurocognitive deficit) --Yamawhata? 17:01, 10 December 2008 (EST)
- Then the series has proved you wrong many times now. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 09:55, 10 December 2008 (EST)
A proposition: See Talk:Mimicry
Due to recent events in the series, I have brought up a proposal (relating to this page) at Talk:Mimicry, if folks could take a look at that. Ricard Desi 16:18, 25 November 2008 (EST)
Does Peter absorb the skill level of each ability?
We see peter absorb each person's ability when he runs into them, but he seems to absorb each ability to the extent of who he absorbed it from. If your not following, think back...
-In season 1 when Matt could only hear thoughts of others, Peter absorbed it and could only mimic it in the same way. In season 2 when Matt had learned to project thoughts, Peter ran into him again and suddenly gained this ability as well. (Leaving me to believe he can absorb more than just abilities but also the skill level of the person he absorbs it from)
-In season 1 Peter meets Hiro and he can somewhat alter time but can't teleport too well (as proven in season 2 when he cant go back to caitlin in the future. But in season 2 Peter meets up with Hiro again, and by season 3 he can manipulate space-time and travel through time as well on his own.
-In season 1 future Peter had absorbed pyrokinesis through Meredith In season 3 Peter had absorbed the same ability through flint, but he was able to make it "extra hot" without having to practice the ability like Flint had to.
-In season 1 Peter was able to show a fair amount of control when it came to telekinesis and didn't have to slowly learn how to move cups with his ability, he was just able to use it as well as Sylar did.
-In season 1 Peter was not just able to paint the future, but he also was able to paint as well as Isaac did (maybe it was because Tim Sale did both art), but maybe Peter just absorbed Isaac's ability to paint well as well.
With theses justifications and many more i didn't feel like listing, is it safe to say that peter doesn't just absorb the abilities but the talents of people as well?--Pbmarcano 23:11, 9 December 2008 (EST)
- Sorry; it's a great theory, but that's all it is: a theory. We shouldn't list it as fact on the page unless it's confirmed. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 23:12, 9 December 2008 (EST)
- It also wouldn't apply to a few situations, most notably his acquisition of Ted's ability (though I suppose one could posit that it was really the influx of too many powers too quickly that was the problem there). --Stevehim 23:50, 9 December 2008 (EST)
- I just saw it happen more times than not so i always assumed it and thought it was common knowledge till i realized that it wasn't posted on the site. I really wanna know what other people think though so if you have the slightest of ideas than feel free to post them.--Pbmarcano 21:26, 10 December 2008 (EST)
- It also wouldn't apply to a few situations, most notably his acquisition of Ted's ability (though I suppose one could posit that it was really the influx of too many powers too quickly that was the problem there). --Stevehim 23:50, 9 December 2008 (EST)
Sylar's and Peter's power could be the same
First we know that sylar has peter's power from how he got elle's power, but he had to work to access it, just like peter did to get sylars power, so they are the same power just they started by using different ends of it, thoughts Also why can't it be said that Sylar has an empathic ability when it is said that he has an empathic ability and just needs to access it?
New Image
I was thinking, that instead of showing an example of Peter using one copied power, we could show him using multiple powers. At least for the other abilities that copy powers ("the hunger" and Power absorption) pictures of the actual power in use. With Peter's this is hard, since "empathic mimicry" is difficult to portray. I believe there are already images of Peter using multiple abilities at once. --(P)uerto (R)ican (K)nock(O)ut
- Find some examples, and we'll see... --Powermimic 21:37, 17 December 2008 (EST)
- Any image of him in the Examples of simultaneous ability use? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 07:12, 18 December 2008 (EST)
- The only good one was the one with Future Peter stopping time and removing Peter from Jesse's body. I don't know how to make my own screencaps but I am sure there are more scenes where this occurs. --(P)uerto (R)ican (K)nock(O)ut
- Another couple of decent ones are the one where Peter uses telekinesis and mindreading (off screen) and when Peter is invisible and uses TK. I already put in a request for more images of multiple power usages by Peter. --(P)uerto (R)ican (K)nock(O)ut
- Anyone remember when Peter kind of went haywire back in season one and he used a lot of his abilities uncontrollably? If there was ever a good shot of him, like, using precognition and being invisible at the same time, we could probably use that. Or maybe when Ted Sprague and Peter first meet... maybe a screencap of both of them in the shot at the same time, and Peter using his newly-absorbed radiation powers. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 09:05, 22 December 2008 (EST)
- Any image of him in the Examples of simultaneous ability use? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 07:12, 18 December 2008 (EST)
- I had a look through the images of Peter... I like this one Media:PeterControlsRadioactivity.jpg as he looks like his absorbing or trying to control his new power. Media:Come_on.jpg this one is good, but again only one power. In this one Media:Powers_Peter_reads_POTUS's_mind.jpg he's using Telepathy and Telekinesis even though it's hard to tell. Or I was thinking maybe a picture where Peter jumps of the building roof in the first episode would be better, as that was the first time he tried to use an ability. --Powermimic 21:29, 22 December 2008 (EST)
While the radiation image is better than the current image, I still think that a show of Peter using multiple abilities would be better. There MUST be a good shot of that somewhere.--(P)uerto (R)ican (K)nock(O)ut
- Simultaneous ability use doesn't necessarily represent empathic mimicry though - I was thinking a shot of Peter and somebody else, both using the same ability? Say, a screenshot with both Elle and Peter using lightning at the same time? --Ciwey 08:52, 29 December 2008 (EST)
- That's a good idea. But when were they ever using lightning together? The only example I can think of is in Four Months Ago... with the sadistic stuff and all, but even then I think it was only Elle that was using her power. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 09:13, 29 December 2008 (EST)
- I'm working on a couple of things right now, trying to combine pictures to illustrate the ability. I'm having problems getting the combined picture coming out the right dimensions without looking rather stretched at the moment, but if I can figure it out, I'll post them as a suggestion for the pic change. --Stevehim 12:28, 30 December 2008 (EST)
At the moment the current picture looks too much like Precognition, how about a temporary change to this Media:PeterControlsRadioactivity.jpg picture while we find or create a better one? --Powermimic 23:24, 11 January 2009 (EST)
I think I've found the perfect image for this ability. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 21:56, 20 January 2009 (EST)
- It's definitely better than what we are using and it shows Peter mimicking an ability with the person there which describes the ability. I think we should change it. --Powermimic 23:16, 20 January 2009 (EST)
- Coolio, anyone else? Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 15:47, 25 January 2009 (EST)
- I like the image and I would not mind the change. However, does the image in question apear a little static-y to anyone else? -- Psilaq R.- \m/ -_- \m/-
- I agree. If the image quality could be bumped up, I think it will well-fit the article. I still favor the multiple ability use images still, though. --(P)uerto (R)ican (K)nock(O)ut 20:59, 5 February 2009 (EST)
- Could you read this discussion and reply Arkillon? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:52, 12 February 2009 (EST)
- I agree. If the image quality could be bumped up, I think it will well-fit the article. I still favor the multiple ability use images still, though. --(P)uerto (R)ican (K)nock(O)ut 20:59, 5 February 2009 (EST)
- I like the image and I would not mind the change. However, does the image in question apear a little static-y to anyone else? -- Psilaq R.- \m/ -_- \m/-
- Coolio, anyone else? Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 15:47, 25 January 2009 (EST)
Peter in Dual
It is speculative to say that he regained this power, as all he has demonstrated so far is flight. Any comment about the possibility of him regaining empathic mimicry belongs in the Notes section only. --Stevehim 22:28, 17 December 2008 (EST)
- Arthur told Peter that the formula was ready and he could use it to get his powers back. We know empathic mimicry allows the possibility for flight, and it is much more likely that Peter simply gained his old power back, I don't belive it's speculative to say he got EM back, and flight was just him using nathan's power. --Piemanmoo 14:34, 18 December 2008 (EST)
- Unfortunately, we don't know for sure (yet), and the show seems to imply heavily that the ability you get is strongly affected by your situation and personality. If all Peter wanted was to save his brother, perhaps he only got flight. We won't know for sure til February. --Ricard Desi 14:41, 18 December 2008 (EST)
- Well ones power is determined by their own genetics and blood chemistry, whether the power is synthetic or not, meaning that like Mohinder, Peter's powers would have been restored their original state, so he would have to regain at least some of them as he probably did from Nathan and Flint. --Halfbreed1426 13:31, 24 December 2008
- I think most everyone agrees with you, and that is what everyone is expecting to happen. When Peter manifests another ability besides flight, it will be confirmed, and not speculative; and be quickly reconstituted. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 12/24/2008 09:37 (EST)
- Well ones power is determined by their own genetics and blood chemistry, whether the power is synthetic or not, meaning that like Mohinder, Peter's powers would have been restored their original state, so he would have to regain at least some of them as he probably did from Nathan and Flint. --Halfbreed1426 13:31, 24 December 2008
- Unfortunately, we don't know for sure (yet), and the show seems to imply heavily that the ability you get is strongly affected by your situation and personality. If all Peter wanted was to save his brother, perhaps he only got flight. We won't know for sure til February. --Ricard Desi 14:41, 18 December 2008 (EST)
It is so heart-breaking to read this conversation, full of hope of Peter regaining his full power, and to know that it didn't happen. --Balkce 06:20, 17 March 2009 (EDT)