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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Irony"

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Would this count as irony or be a parallel?:  Peter, who Charles favored as a son, was in a struggle for Simone's feelings with Isaac much in the same way Alejandro, who WAS related, and Sylar fought over Maya's.  They also both winded up with the boys in a fight, one of them arming themselves with a lethal weapon, a betrayal, and having the arc ended by the girl being shot in Isaac's loft.--[[User:Crazyaspie|Crazyaspie]] 22:52, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
Would this count as irony or be a parallel?:  Peter, who Charles favored as a son, was in a struggle for Simone's feelings with Isaac much in the same way Alejandro, who WAS related, and Sylar fought over Maya's.  They also both winded up with the boys in a fight, one of them arming themselves with a lethal weapon, a betrayal, and having the arc ended by the girl being shot in Isaac's loft.--[[User:Crazyaspie|Crazyaspie]] 22:52, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
== Alot of ... ==
alot of things added arn't even irony?
Why put them their?

Revision as of 21:25, 16 April 2009

Clever using "pair them" and linked to Paire.--Bob (talk) 18:18, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

  • I suppose it's a bit of irony itself...or would that be the Alanis definition of the word? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:20, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Re: "Notes" about the supposed relationship between Hayden and Milo

Shouldn't there be some citation given for such a note? All I read was that they stated they were not romantically-involved (a compilation of sources is here). 'ROESian

  • Definitely needs a citation before making a claim like that. Thanks for pointing that out. I commented it out for now until a citation can be added. (Admin 19:52, 22 October 2007 (EDT))
    • If it does end up being false (though I believe it), this site would lose alot of credibility if Milo or Hayden were to ever check it out. >_>;--Riddler 19:58, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I added it based off my own hazy recollection of an article about the two of them being rumored to be together. Here's an article that I found that's the closest thing to linking them, yet still says it's all rumors. I'll remove the reference (which is not needed anyway, and was really just an excuse to make a fun link to Paire). My apologies--I don't quite have my A game on today. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:11, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Irony

"Irony" is marked by the "incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs". Even allowing for dramatic irony, which covers things like Candice's mug, a lot of these examples aren't particular ironic.--Hardvice (talk) 22:03, 27 October 2007 (EDT)

  • I had a feeling someone would say this...--Ice Vision 22:05, 27 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Reading over them many of them appear to be forms of irony, though I did see some that I wouldn't consider to be irony. Hardvice, do you want to list the ones you feel aren't examples of irony and we can try going through them one by one? (Admin 22:14, 27 October 2007 (EDT))

I'm no expert on irony (I'm an Alanis fan, and I totally identified with Winona Ryder in Reality Bites)...Is Simone being shot as she's bringing the key back to Isaac's apartment an example of irony? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:17, 27 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Based on my understanding of it, I'd say no. However if he made a comment like, "Come stay with me so I can keep you safe." and then shot her as she returned, I'd consider that ironic. (Admin 22:24, 27 October 2007 (EDT))
    • What if it were raining on her wedding day? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:37, 27 October 2007 (EDT)
      • And she got a free ride when she'd already paid? -- Paronine 23:24, 27 October 2007 (EDT)
      • That's just bad luck. :) I'm not sure if that's ironic or not. (Admin 23:07, 27 October 2007 (EDT))
  • Some of these things are what are called Ironic Symmetry, which technically isn't irony or symmetry, but a form of unusual or standout situations that parallel each other in an unexpected way, but are not unexpected in themselves. Think of it as Irony in the second or third degree. Charlie's decapitations an example. You know he is going to try and do that, and you know that she is going to open a can. Neither is unexpected and thus not Ironic, but the parallel of him opening her like she was opening a large can at the same time was not expected so that parallel is ironic. its like a second cousin is to a cousin.--WolvenSpectre 14:46, 23 November 2007 (EST)

Irony is quite a hard term to describe, it's basically two linked statements or events that contradict one another. Dramatic irony is something entirely different; that's when the audience knows something that the characters fail to grasp. I'm sorry but a lot of what's on this page is neither - I was always told Americans didn't get irony. :p --Tesphen 11:40, 10 December 2007 (EST)

  • Agree. I don't quite have a firm grasp on exactly what irony is myself (though I'm not sure how much of that has to do with being American). Asked to define it, I feel like Winona Ryder in Reality Bites--I can identify it when presented with it, but it's much harder for me to define... Feel free to edit the page as needed. You might think about making a new section to put some of the displaced examples. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:42, 10 December 2007 (EST)
  • I as a Canadian have heard the whole "Americans don't get irony" thing too, but it was explained to me in university that it refers to irony in art and popular culture. Originally irony was something that was part of the arts, mainly drama and literature. It wasn't used to refer to common everyday life anymore than the words simile or homonym. However after a while some people started using to describe things outside of the arts as an indirect reference to the defined specifications for irony. As it became more popularly known by the common man about the time of the colonization of North America, the sticking to the defined rule of what irony is laxened a little.

However, in North America there was no compelling force to stick to the letter of the definition and it was a word used commonly, often by those with no education in what it exactly meant. Until the American Revolution, the saying applied to all North, and some South, Americans. After that it was applied to the USA only. While it wasn't being used as strictly in Europe as it once was, it still had that staunch old school traditional higher education and arts community trying to keep the definition in its place.

Once American Popular Culture started to gain international audiences this very old school reference started to gain popularity again. Ironically, because of American influences after the second world war the strict definition was supposedly updated to the way most Europeans used it, which was leaning more towards the strict North American version than it did the old European one. So now Europe has three strict definitions for Irony.

Although it is ironic that that saying (according to what I was taught in collage) usually applies to the person who says it as it does to us North Americans... or is it?--WolvenSpectre 18:53, 10 December 2007 (EST)

It's interessting to note that sarcasm is a form of irony and I don't think you can write all the examples of that on this page. ^_^ --Tesphen 15:49, 18 December 2007 (EST)

  • Agreed, but this is another example that is like what I said about Ironic Symetry, and now I wished I had thought of that. They both parallel irony, and even use irony as a component part, but can't be called irony in themselves. (I wonder... does that count as ironic? *wink* )--WolvenSpectre 16:08, 18 December 2007 (EST)


Elle's Homecoming Comment

In the 2 part Graphic Novel story "Elle's First Assignment", in the last panel Elle states that she is so miserable watching Claire in her school that she was glad she wasn't going to be there for Homecoming because if she was she would have to shoot herself. Eden was there to replace Elle, figuratively, as a representative of the company and captured Sylar. Thinking him too dangerous she tried to get Sylar to shoot himself but ended up shooting herself to keep Sylar from attaining her ability. --WolvenSpectre 05:42, 9 January 2008 (EST)

  • Okay. I just removed it because of the way it had been written. It implied that Eden shot herself on Homecoming night. HOWEVER... I still have qualms about this example. Elle was at Union Wells to keep an eye on Claire. She had nothing to do with keeping an eye on Sylar. Eden, however, was on a mission to capture Sylar - nothing to do with Claire because Bennet thought his little girl was safe at home. Maybe I'm wrong, but this seems a bit of a stretch to call irony... And there are other examples of stretches on this page... Am I stepping out of line or anything. I guess irony can be hard to judge on some accounts. --The Mysterious Major Despard 06:52, 9 January 2008 (EST)

The Line

In The Line, Katarina and Kolya say goodbye to Ivan, and shortly after he is killed. Can this be classed as irony? -- Friskymuffin (talk) 10:58, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

  • No, the events have to contradict each other, normally in some unforeseen manner.--MiamiVolts (talk) 11:31, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

Five years gone

While disguised as Nathan Petrelli Sylar says to Peter, "Brother vs. brother—almost biblical." Sylar was referring to Nathan and Peter being brothers, though it is ironic that Sylar and Peter are actually brothers, though this was not known to either of them at the time.

What you guys think wanna put in the official page? Manwithnoname

hiro six months ago

I really don't see any irony in calling yourself on the phone, should it realy be here? --Max21:07, 12 December 2008 (EST)

Good One

How about powerless and I am become death. Future peter comes from the future and kills nathan,Then present peter goes into the future and kills future nathan. Irony Gabriel Bishop 12:18, 22 March 2009 (EDT) Gabriel Bishop

Deletion?

Yeah...I'm not seeing why the Tracy note for Cold Snap is deemed "not ironic". I mean, I thought it was pretty ironic: the first and last time she uses her power results in deaths, the first one being someone else and that last one resulting in her own death.--Anthony Gooch 03:11, 12 April 2009 (EDT)

Alejandro/Sylar/Maya, Peter/Isaac/Simone?

Would this count as irony or be a parallel?: Peter, who Charles favored as a son, was in a struggle for Simone's feelings with Isaac much in the same way Alejandro, who WAS related, and Sylar fought over Maya's. They also both winded up with the boys in a fight, one of them arming themselves with a lethal weapon, a betrayal, and having the arc ended by the girl being shot in Isaac's loft.--Crazyaspie 22:52, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

Alot of ...

alot of things added arn't even irony? Why put them their?