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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Irony"

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* It's like rain on your wedding day, a free ride when you've already paid, it's the good advice that you just didn't take, who would have though? Figures.--[[User:Riddler|Riddler]] 02:44, 23 February 2010 (EST)
* It's like rain on your wedding day, a free ride when you've already paid, it's the good advice that you just didn't take, who would have though? Figures.--[[User:Riddler|Riddler]] 02:44, 23 February 2010 (EST)
** lol, why quoting a song here :p -- ([[User:WaterRatj|WaterRatj]]) 06:43, 23 February 2010 (EST)
** lol, why quoting a song here :p -- ([[User:WaterRatj|WaterRatj]]) 06:43, 23 February 2010 (EST)
**A thousand spoons when all you need is a knife?--{{User:PJDEP/signature1}} 15:34, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Revision as of 14:34, 23 February 2010

Clever using "pair them" and linked to Paire.--Bob (talk) 18:18, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

  • I suppose it's a bit of irony itself...or would that be the Alanis definition of the word? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:20, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Re: "Notes" about the supposed relationship between Hayden and Milo

Shouldn't there be some citation given for such a note? All I read was that they stated they were not romantically-involved (a compilation of sources is here). 'ROESian

  • Definitely needs a citation before making a claim like that. Thanks for pointing that out. I commented it out for now until a citation can be added. (Admin 19:52, 22 October 2007 (EDT))
    • If it does end up being false (though I believe it), this site would lose alot of credibility if Milo or Hayden were to ever check it out. >_>;--Riddler 19:58, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I added it based off my own hazy recollection of an article about the two of them being rumored to be together. Here's an article that I found that's the closest thing to linking them, yet still says it's all rumors. I'll remove the reference (which is not needed anyway, and was really just an excuse to make a fun link to Paire). My apologies--I don't quite have my A game on today. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:11, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Irony

"Irony" is marked by the "incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs". Even allowing for dramatic irony, which covers things like Candice's mug, a lot of these examples aren't particular ironic.--Hardvice (talk) 22:03, 27 October 2007 (EDT)

  • I had a feeling someone would say this...--Ice Vision 22:05, 27 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Reading over them many of them appear to be forms of irony, though I did see some that I wouldn't consider to be irony. Hardvice, do you want to list the ones you feel aren't examples of irony and we can try going through them one by one? (Admin 22:14, 27 October 2007 (EDT))

I'm no expert on irony (I'm an Alanis fan, and I totally identified with Winona Ryder in Reality Bites)...Is Simone being shot as she's bringing the key back to Isaac's apartment an example of irony? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:17, 27 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Based on my understanding of it, I'd say no. However if he made a comment like, "Come stay with me so I can keep you safe." and then shot her as she returned, I'd consider that ironic. (Admin 22:24, 27 October 2007 (EDT))
    • What if it were raining on her wedding day? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:37, 27 October 2007 (EDT)
      • And she got a free ride when she'd already paid? -- Paronine 23:24, 27 October 2007 (EDT)
      • That's just bad luck. :) I'm not sure if that's ironic or not. (Admin 23:07, 27 October 2007 (EDT))
  • Some of these things are what are called Ironic Symmetry, which technically isn't irony or symmetry, but a form of unusual or standout situations that parallel each other in an unexpected way, but are not unexpected in themselves. Think of it as Irony in the second or third degree. Charlie's decapitations an example. You know he is going to try and do that, and you know that she is going to open a can. Neither is unexpected and thus not Ironic, but the parallel of him opening her like she was opening a large can at the same time was not expected so that parallel is ironic. its like a second cousin is to a cousin.--WolvenSpectre 14:46, 23 November 2007 (EST)

Irony is quite a hard term to describe, it's basically two linked statements or events that contradict one another. Dramatic irony is something entirely different; that's when the audience knows something that the characters fail to grasp. I'm sorry but a lot of what's on this page is neither - I was always told Americans didn't get irony. :p --Tesphen 11:40, 10 December 2007 (EST)

  • Agree. I don't quite have a firm grasp on exactly what irony is myself (though I'm not sure how much of that has to do with being American). Asked to define it, I feel like Winona Ryder in Reality Bites--I can identify it when presented with it, but it's much harder for me to define... Feel free to edit the page as needed. You might think about making a new section to put some of the displaced examples. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:42, 10 December 2007 (EST)
  • I as a Canadian have heard the whole "Americans don't get irony" thing too, but it was explained to me in university that it refers to irony in art and popular culture. Originally irony was something that was part of the arts, mainly drama and literature. It wasn't used to refer to common everyday life anymore than the words simile or homonym. However after a while some people started using to describe things outside of the arts as an indirect reference to the defined specifications for irony. As it became more popularly known by the common man about the time of the colonization of North America, the sticking to the defined rule of what irony is laxened a little.

However, in North America there was no compelling force to stick to the letter of the definition and it was a word used commonly, often by those with no education in what it exactly meant. Until the American Revolution, the saying applied to all North, and some South, Americans. After that it was applied to the USA only. While it wasn't being used as strictly in Europe as it once was, it still had that staunch old school traditional higher education and arts community trying to keep the definition in its place.

Once American Popular Culture started to gain international audiences this very old school reference started to gain popularity again. Ironically, because of American influences after the second world war the strict definition was supposedly updated to the way most Europeans used it, which was leaning more towards the strict North American version than it did the old European one. So now Europe has three strict definitions for Irony.

Although it is ironic that that saying (according to what I was taught in collage) usually applies to the person who says it as it does to us North Americans... or is it?--WolvenSpectre 18:53, 10 December 2007 (EST)

It's interessting to note that sarcasm is a form of irony and I don't think you can write all the examples of that on this page. ^_^ --Tesphen 15:49, 18 December 2007 (EST)

  • Agreed, but this is another example that is like what I said about Ironic Symetry, and now I wished I had thought of that. They both parallel irony, and even use irony as a component part, but can't be called irony in themselves. (I wonder... does that count as ironic? *wink* )--WolvenSpectre 16:08, 18 December 2007 (EST)


Elle's Homecoming Comment

In the 2 part Graphic Novel story "Elle's First Assignment", in the last panel Elle states that she is so miserable watching Claire in her school that she was glad she wasn't going to be there for Homecoming because if she was she would have to shoot herself. Eden was there to replace Elle, figuratively, as a representative of the company and captured Sylar. Thinking him too dangerous she tried to get Sylar to shoot himself but ended up shooting herself to keep Sylar from attaining her ability. --WolvenSpectre 05:42, 9 January 2008 (EST)

  • Okay. I just removed it because of the way it had been written. It implied that Eden shot herself on Homecoming night. HOWEVER... I still have qualms about this example. Elle was at Union Wells to keep an eye on Claire. She had nothing to do with keeping an eye on Sylar. Eden, however, was on a mission to capture Sylar - nothing to do with Claire because Bennet thought his little girl was safe at home. Maybe I'm wrong, but this seems a bit of a stretch to call irony... And there are other examples of stretches on this page... Am I stepping out of line or anything. I guess irony can be hard to judge on some accounts. --The Mysterious Major Despard 06:52, 9 January 2008 (EST)

The Line

In The Line, Katarina and Kolya say goodbye to Ivan, and shortly after he is killed. Can this be classed as irony? -- Friskymuffin (talk) 10:58, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

  • No, the events have to contradict each other, normally in some unforeseen manner.--MiamiVolts (talk) 11:31, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
    • Actually, irony also includes symbolism/foretelling that the characters themselves are unaware of. Such as one character confessing their love to another, only to have the next scene showing either of those characters having an affair. --Crazyaspie 06:55, 2 May 2009 (EDT)

Five years gone

While disguised as Nathan Petrelli Sylar says to Peter, "Brother vs. brother—almost biblical." Sylar was referring to Nathan and Peter being brothers, though it is ironic that Sylar and Peter are actually brothers, though this was not known to either of them at the time.

What you guys think wanna put in the official page? Manwithnoname

Sylar isn't Peter's brother, as far as we know.--ERROR 16:23, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

hiro six months ago

I really don't see any irony in calling yourself on the phone, should it realy be here? --Max21:07, 12 December 2008 (EST)

  • The irony is that Hiro was trying to avoid a time paradox and unwittingly began to speak to himself. --Crazyaspie 06:53, 2 May 2009 (EDT)

Good One

How about powerless and I am become death. Future peter comes from the future and kills nathan,Then present peter goes into the future and kills future nathan. Irony Gabriel Bishop 12:18, 22 March 2009 (EDT) Gabriel Bishop

Deletion?

Yeah...I'm not seeing why the Tracy note for Cold Snap is deemed "not ironic". I mean, I thought it was pretty ironic: the first and last time she uses her power results in deaths, the first one being someone else and that last one resulting in her own death.--Anthony Gooch 03:11, 12 April 2009 (EDT)

Alejandro/Sylar/Maya, Peter/Isaac/Simone?

Would this count as irony or be a parallel?: Peter, who Charles favored as a son, was in a struggle for Simone's feelings with Isaac much in the same way Alejandro, who WAS related, and Sylar fought over Maya's. They also both winded up with the boys in a fight, one of them arming themselves with a lethal weapon, a betrayal, and having the arc ended by the girl being shot in Isaac's loft.--Crazyaspie 22:52, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

  • That's not irony. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:40, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
    • ...That's just crazy...as pie (lol sorry, couldn't resist)--Anthony Gooch 01:26, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

Alot of ...

alot of things added arn't even irony? Why put them their?

Editing

Can we have an english major go through here and edit this page? A sizable amount of these examples are not ironic.--PJDEP 23:12, 29 November 2009 (EST)

Into Asylum

Is it irony when Sylar kills james when he looks like Sylar? Everyone tries killing Sylar? -- (WaterRatj) 08:47, 23 January 2010 (EST)

  • Do you mean, how Sylar kinda kills himself even though everyone tries to kill him? --Leckie -- Talk 09:01, 23 January 2010 (EST)
    • Well i think its pretty ironic-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 09:02, 23 January 2010 (EST)
      • Sorry for the not well formed phrase :D -- (WaterRatj) 09:05, 23 January 2010 (EST)
        • Lol, thats ok WaterRatj, I figured it out! I'm not sure whether that would be ironic or not though. --Leckie -- Talk 09:08, 23 January 2010 (EST)
          • Me neither but seems more ironic then some examples that are totally not ironic :p -- (WaterRatj) 09:13, 23 January 2010 (EST)
            • Well, I think we should just put it there and see what the other users think about it.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 09:19, 23 January 2010 (EST)
          • Just because some examples aren't ironic (something that bothers me intensely), it doesn't mean we should add examples that may be slightly more ironic. That being said, what we could use is that Sylar kills someone who looks like himself, then immediately falls into an identity crisis.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 12:13, 23 January 2010 (EST)
            • Still think its pretty ironic :D, the one about identity crisis isn't imho -- (WaterRatj) 13:58, 23 January 2010 (EST)
              • Actually, I think PJDEP has a pretty good example there. --Leckie -- Talk 14:01, 23 January 2010 (EST)
              • Yeah but mine to start was better :p -- (WaterRatj) 15:04, 23 January 2010 (EST)

Thanksgiving

Is it irony when Peter saves Angela from Sylar, just like a reverse Angels and Monsters?--Boycool42 17:57, 22 February 2010 (EST)

  • I've definitely seen this asked elsewhere. I think the response given was that Peter wasn't the one that saved Angela, it was Sylar's Nathan-y side that did.--PJDEP - Talk - Polls and Opinions 20:55, 22 February 2010 (EST)

Brave New World

  • Is it ironic how:
  1. Sylar becomes the good-guy
  2. Samuel's loyal followers betray him
  3. Charlie (after Hiro tries to rescue her for X number of times) doesn't want to be saved
  4. Tracy, one of HRG's former love intrests, rescues Claire (the love of his life), after being called by Lauren (who had an affair with HRG while he was still marriedto Sandra), all after it was revealed that HRG had a fiance that nobody knew about.
  5. Samuel's plan of sending Eli to stop Peter and Sylar backfire on him

--Dance4thedead 23:41, 22 February 2010 (EST)

  • No, no, yes, ?, maybe.--PJDEP - Talk - Polls and Opinions 23:42, 22 February 2010 (EST)
    • Well for number one, (yeah, I'm gonna really fight for the Sylar one) if you look at it from a season to season thing of "I'm gonna go out and kill as many special people as I can" for reasons a) I want to be the most special person in the world, and b) revenge for all the *bad word* this world has done to me and all the *another bad word* who tried to use me in their own little schemes. Now Parkman(good-guy) and Sylar(bad-guy) seemed to have switched places. Isn't that ironic?--Dance4thedead 00:34, 23 February 2010 (EST)
      • If you hyper-generalize it, maybe. The thing is, Sylar became "evil" out of a desire to become special, and became "good" because he simply didn't want to die (or, in his case, live) alone. I don't see enough of a connection there. If Sylar had suddenly interpreted his "evolutionary imperative" as the need to save specials, that'd work. That didn't happen however, and we could be in a debate for hours about whether he helped or harmed the EH community by stopping Samuel. As for Parkman, his main goal was to simply protect his family (Sylar did TK his wife...if you know what I mean...). While his methods weren't exactly morally acceptable, he's far from evil.--PJDEP - Talk - Polls and Opinions 00:45, 23 February 2010 (EST)
  • Fine, one last bout, then I'll shut up. HRG is morally grey, and Sylar refused to hurt Doyle when he went to save Emma.(hint-hint, the need to save specials!). Sylar could have gone anywhere when Nathan went kersplat in "The Fifth Stage",(argh, still wont turn blue when I try to make hyperlinks!) but no, he went to go find himself at the carnival after he went soft trying to kill Samuel. He then went to Claire and tried to help her life after HRG screwed it up. Sylar didn't have to let Claire stab him in the eye with a pencil to get her to admit her fears to herself (under the guise of Gretchen)! He's repent almost everything that he's done and tried to help people that he's done wrong to that aren't already dead with their head sliced open! What more would you want the man to do? The closest that he's ever been to godsend before was when he was with Elle! (And PJDEP, because I know that the last sentance is gonna come back to bite me, I mean Elle before he flambed her) ;) --Dance4thedead 01:02, 23 February 2010 (EST)
    • Means to an end. My point is that his main intention wasn't to help people (with the exception of Emma), he helped Claire indirectly while trying to solve his own issues. He repented for Nathan's murder, fair enough, but I haven't heard him say a word about Dale Smither or Zane Taylor. I supposed if you reallyyyyyy wanted to, you could insert something like "Although he has devoted the past few years to hunting down other specials, Sylar ends up saving Emma". I'm not an expert on irony though, I could be wrong and if you feel strongly enough you should go ahead and add it. Also, to be annoyingly helpful, if you want to link internally (link to another article on this wiki), all you have to put is ''[[The Fifth Stage]]'', the double brackets set up the link and the quotes italicize it.--PJDEP - Talk - Polls and Opinions 01:17, 23 February 2010 (EST)
  • It's like rain on your wedding day, a free ride when you've already paid, it's the good advice that you just didn't take, who would have though? Figures.--Riddler 02:44, 23 February 2010 (EST)
    • lol, why quoting a song here :p -- (WaterRatj) 06:43, 23 February 2010 (EST)
    • A thousand spoons when all you need is a knife?--PJDEP - Talk - Polls and Opinions 15:34, 23 February 2010 (EST)