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==Linderman==
* Just to further compound things: the clip they showed at the Paley Festival doesn't confirm that Linderman is an evolved human.  It confirms that he claims to be an evolved human.  He should be added to this page when he displays a power, not when he says he has one.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 15:59, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
** That's why I entered it commented out.  Hopefully it will keep others from coming along after seeing the spoilers that he will have a power, and adding him prematurely, when the see the commented entry already there.  This is no difference than the precedence we have done in the past with Candace and Dale.  Both of them were listed before it was confirmed, yet commented out to deter anyone from adding them prematurely.  <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 03/15/2007 16:06 (EST)</small>
*** Right.  I just don't want somebody to see that scene, which doesn't prove he's evolved, and restore it.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 16:24, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
**** I just added clarification comments within the comments themselves...hopefully that will be enough to prevent any premature showing of that row by any semi-conscious, non-trolling person. <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 03/15/2007 16:36 (EST)</small>
***Technically, the difference is that Candace and Dale were true spoilers--we already knew they had powers before they appeared. Heck, Candace was on the list, so we knew she had powers months ago. Here, Linderman is ''saying'' he has powers, and that's not always to be trusted. ... However, [[Malcolm McDowell]] did tell ''Entertainment Weekly'' he had a power, which I tend to believe a bit more than the scene referenced.... Personally, I don't mind having Linderman here commented out, I just don't think it's necessary. If somebody comes along and adds him to the list, then we should either delete it until it airs, or comment it out. By putting it in early, I feel it encourages adding spoilers to pages early. &mdash; [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 17:48, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
==Reformat==
If we get rid of the actor column (which is out-of-world info in an in-world article), and merge the status column with the name (i.e. "Brian Davis (deceased)", then we can get rid of the cryptic codes in the source column and opt for things like "The List", "The Map", "The Journal".  Thoughts?--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 02:10, 28 March 2007 (EDT)
* So you can see the difference and to make maintenance easier, I added a template.  Here's a version of what I'm talking about:
<!--
{| border="2" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="4" class="wikitable"
|-
|-
! Name
| align=center | [[Talk:List of evolved humans/Archive 2|Mar 2007-Mar 2009]] || <small>{{ArchiveLinks|Talk:List of evolved humans/Archive 2}}</small>
! Power
! Location
! [[List of evolved humans#Sources|Sources]]
|-
{{evolved|name=Felipe Acerra |power=Phasing | location=180 Normandie St  |source=[[The List]], [[Interactive map|The Map]] |deceased=true }}
{{evolved|name=Charlie Andrews |power=Enhanced memory | location=Midland, TX |source= ''[[Episode:Seven Minutes to Midnight|Seven Minutes to Midnight]]'' |deceased=Sylar }}
{{evolved|name=Abu Aswan |power= | location=1428 Sabah, N Ave. Cairo, Egypt  |source=[[The List]], [[Interactive map|The Map]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Austin |power=Healing | location= |source=''[[War Buddies, Part 2]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Claire Bennet |power=Rapid cell regeneration | location=Odessa, TX |source=''[[Episode:Genesis|Genesis]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=[[David Berman#Trivia|David Berman]] |power= | location=New York, NY |source=[[The List]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Byron Bevington |power=Precognition | location=Marshfield, VT  |source=[[The List]], [[Interactive map|The Map]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Penkala Burton |power= | location=12 Marshy Lane, Albert Lea, MN |source=[[The List]], [[Interactive map|The Map]]|deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Daniel Buzzetti |power= | location=Greely, CO |source=[[The List]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Frank Cavanaugh |power= | location= |source=[[The List]], [[Interactive map|The Map]] |deceased=true }}
{{evolved|name=Tracy Chobham |power=Teleportation | location=4 Pear Lane, Frostburg, MD |source=[[The List]], [[Interactive map|The Map]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Nicholas Datre  |power= | location= |source=[[The List]] |deceased=true }}
{{evolved|name=David |power= | location=Chicago, IL |source=''[[Graphic Novel:Turning Point|Turning Point]]'' |deceased=Sylar }}
{{evolved|name=Brian Davis |power=Telekinesis | location=New York, NY |source=''[[Episode:Six Months Ago|Six Months Ago]]'' |deceased=Sylar }}
{{evolved|name=Arthur Dowland |power= | location= |source=[[Interactive map|The Map]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Sarah Ellis ([[Eden McCain]]) |power=Persuasion | location=[[Utah]], [[Los Angeles, CA]] and [[New York, NY]] |source=''[[Episode:Don't Look Back|Don't Look Back]]'' |deceased=Sylar }}
{{evolved|name=Rebecca Finder |power= | location= |source=[[Interactive map|The Map]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Harry Fletcher |power= | location=New York, NY |source=[[The List]], [[Interactive map|The Map]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Paula Gramble |power= | location=Monteith, IA |source=[[The List]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Hana Gitelman |power=Electronic data transception | location=[[Israel]] and [[Missoula, MT]] |source=''[[Wireless, Part 1]]''; ''[[Episode:Unexpected|Unexpected]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Meredith Gordon |power=Pyrokinesis | location=Kermit, TX |source=''[[The Fix|The Fix]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Gabriel Gray ([[Sylar]]) |power=[[Intuitive aptitude]]<br>(''See also'': [[power theft]])| location=New York, NY |source=''[[Episode:One Giant Leap|One Giant Leap]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=[[Pam Green]][[List of evolved humans#Pam|<sup>1</sup>]] |power= | location= |source=[[The List]], [[Interactive map|The Map]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=The Haitian |power=Mental manipulation | location=Odessa, TX |source=''[[Episode:One Giant Leap|One Giant Leap]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=[[Amid Halebi]][[List of evolved humans#Amid|<sup>2</sup>]] |power= | location=Los Angeles, CA |source=[[The List]], [[Interactive map|The Map]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=D.L. Hawkins |power=Phasing | location=Las Vegas, NV |source=''[[Episode:Hiros|Hiros]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Curtis Hovsepian |power= | location=Grant Pass, OR |source=[[The List]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Teresa Hue Pham |power= | location=Shreveport, LA |source=[[The List]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Sanjog Iyer |power=Dream manipulation | location=Chennai, India |source=''[[Episode:Seven Minutes to Midnight|Seven Minutes to Midnight]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Ethan Kimball |power= | location= |source=[[The List]] |deceased=true }}
{{evolved|name=Elena LaCarte  |power= | location= |source=[[Interactive map|The Map]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Joe Landers |power= | location= |source=[[Interactive map|The Map]][[List of evolved humans#Joe|<sup>3</sup>]]  |deceased=true }}
{{evolved|name=Sue Landers |power= | location= |source=[[The List]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Isaac Mendez |power=Precognition | location=New York, NY |source=''[[Genesis]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Noel Menzies |power= | location= |source=[[The List]] |deceased=true }}
{{evolved|name=Jess Murphy |power= |location= |source=[[The List]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Hiro Nakamura |power=Space-time manipulation | location=Tokyo, Japan |source=''[[Genesis]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Matt Parkman |power=Telepathy | location=Los Angeles, CA |source=''[[Don't Look Back]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Nathan Petrelli |power=Flight | location=New York, NY |source=''[[Genesis]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Peter Petrelli |power=Empathic mimicry | location=New York, NY |source=''[[Genesis]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Leonie Pinkham |power= | location= |source=[[The List]] |deceased=true }}
{{evolved|name=Claude Rains |power=Invisibility | location=New York, NY |source=''[[Godsend]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Sparrow Redhouse |power= | location=New Mexico |source=[[The List]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Micah Sanders |power=Technopathy | location=Las Vegas, NV |source=''[[Nothing to Hide]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Jessica Sanders |power=Enhanced strength | location=Las Vegas, NV |source=''[[Genesis]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Niki Sanders |power= | location=Las Vegas, NV |source=[[The List]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Dale Smither |power=Enhanced hearing | location=Bozeman, MT |source=''[[Unexpected]]'' |deceased=Sylar }}
{{evolved|name=Adam Soo Hoo |power= | location=Kailua, HI |source=[[The List]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Theodore Sprague |power=Induced radioactivity | location=Los Angeles, CA |source=''[[Nothing to Hide]]'' |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Linda Tavara |power= | location= |source=[[The List]] |deceased=true }}
{{evolved|name=Zane Taylor |power=Liquefaction | location=Virginia Beach, VA |source=''[[Run!]]'' |deceased=Sylar }}
{{evolved|name=Unnamed 1 (female, aged 22) |power=Transportation[[List of evolved humans#Potentially|<sup>6</sup>]] | location=Palu, Indonesia |source=[[Chandra's journal]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Unnamed 2 (female, aged 13) |power=[[Precognition]][[List of evolved humans#Potentially|<sup>6</sup>]] | location=Marabai, Brazil |source=[[Chandra's journal]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Unnamed 3 (male) |power=[[Rapid cell regeneration|Tissue Regeneration]][[List of evolved humans#Potentially|<sup>6</sup>]] | location= |source=[[Chandra's journal]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Unnamed 4 (female, aged 87)|power=[[Telepathy]][[List of evolved humans#Potentially|<sup>6</sup>]]| location=Lobatse, Botswana |source=[[Chandra's journal]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Unnamed 5 (Polish/Russian female) |power=Clairvoyance[[List of evolved humans#Potentially|<sup>6</sup>]] | location=New Canaan, CT |source=[[Chandra's journal]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Unnamed 6 (male)  |power=Transportation[[List of evolved humans#Potentially|<sup>6</sup>]] | location=Chilpancingo, Mexico |source=[[Chandra's journal]]  |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Unnamed 7 (male) |power= | location=Sweden |source=[[Chandra's journal]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Unnamed 8 (female)  |power=[[Telepathy]][[List of evolved humans#Potentially|<sup>6</sup>]] | location=Madison, CA |source=[[Chandra's journal]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Michelle Valcan[[List of evolved humans#Michelle|<sup>4</sup>]] |power= | location= |source=[[Interactive map|The Map]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=[[Michelle Valcek]][[List of evolved humans#Michelle|<sup>4</sup>]] |power= | location=Saginaw, MI |source=[[The List]] |deceased= }}
{{evolved|name=Norman Ventris |power= | location= |source=[[The List]] |deceased=true }}
{{evolved|name=Diego Vela[[List of evolved humans#Fragment|<sup>5</sup>]]  |power= | location= |source=[[The List]] |deceased=true }}
{{evolved|name=James Walker |power= | location=Los Angeles, CA |source=''[[Don't Look Back]]'' |deceased=Sylar }}
{{evolved|name=Candace Willmer |power=Illusion | location=Clayton, NY |source=[[The List]], ''[[Episode:Company Man|Company Man]]'' |deceased= }}
|}
|}
**Hid the Table because it really ha no use now.  HDS -->
: The "deceased" reflexes are automatic, and allow for either just a "deceased" notation (like Felipe Acerra) or a link to [[Sylar's victims]] (like [[Charlie]]).  The links for powers, names, and locations are also automatic.  See [[Template:Evolved]] for a rundown of how it works.  Having a template will also allow us to make major changes to the formatting of the table with minimal adjustments to the template itself, so we should probably switch to a template even if we keep the current layout.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 02:39, 28 March 2007 (EDT)
::Your proposed changes to the table improve it I think.  --[[User:Mercury McKinnon|Mercury McKinnon]] 06:17, 28 March 2007 (EDT)
::: Yeah I also can't disagree but we need to add CM and CC in the [[Glossary]] but CM is already used for [[Company Man]] so what's next ? --&nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black">[[User:FrenchFlo|'''<span style="background-color:blue; color:white; font-size:8pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;FrenchFlo&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>''']][[User talk:FrenchFlo|<span style="background-color:white; color:black">&nbsp;(talk)&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FrenchFlo|<span style="background-color:red; color:black">&nbsp;(contribs)&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 06:23, 28 March 2007 (EDT)
::Great changes. I, for one, am so glad to see the actor's name removed from this list...I find the parenthetical "(deceased)" note a bit superfluous. If the name is italicized, that should be enough. Maybe have a note at the top that says "Names in italics represent deceased characters". &mdash; [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 07:06, 28 March 2007 (EDT)
:::Sounds good but italic isn't enough euh... visible ? I mean the page should be clear in a 1second look, and italic vs non-italic isn't pretty easy to see unless you stay a moment reading. Can't we just <s>"dont know the word"</s> them ? --&nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black">[[User:FrenchFlo|'''<span style="background-color:blue; color:white; font-size:8pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;FrenchFlo&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>''']][[User talk:FrenchFlo|<span style="background-color:white; color:black">&nbsp;(talk)&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FrenchFlo|<span style="background-color:red; color:black">&nbsp;(contribs)&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 07:09, 28 March 2007 (EDT)
::::That's fine. Personally, I think the italics stand out enough, but if you don't, then can leave the "deceased" on there. I don't think <s>striking</s> them out would be a good idea since it kind of gives the impression that they don't even belong on the list. &mdash; [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 07:21, 28 March 2007 (EDT)
:::::Well that's up to, I didn't thought about that face of the striking thing and I agree but I still believe that italic isn't enough. I mean, when they were in red, it was clear who was or wasn't alive, but italic isn't fast as red to detect. That's just my point of view and I don't think it should be considered as a consensus :) What do you think of something like that, using the ascii cross alt+0134 :
<center>
{| border="2" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="4" class="wikitable"
|-
! Name
! Power
! Location
! [[List of evolved humans#Sources|Sources]]
|-
{{evolved|name=<b>†</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;Diego Vela[[List of evolved humans#Fragment|<sup>5</sup>]]|power= | location= |source=[[The List]]}}
|-
|}
As you wish! --&nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black">[[User:FrenchFlo|'''<span style="background-color:blue; color:white; font-size:8pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;FrenchFlo&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>''']][[User talk:FrenchFlo|<span style="background-color:white; color:black">&nbsp;(talk)&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FrenchFlo|<span style="background-color:red; color:black">&nbsp;(contribs)&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small>
</center>
::::::Looks good, much cleaner list.  <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 03/28/2007 07:57 (EST)</small>
:::::::I'd rather just have the italics or "(deceased)". I don't think the "'''†'''" is necessary. &mdash; [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 14:18, 28 March 2007 (EDT)
== Footnotes ==
Currently "Chandra's journal entries" are out of sequence and "Amid Halebi"'s note may not be needed anymore. I was going to change them but was wondering if there was a better way.
Would it be possible to use [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Footnotes|footnotes]] like at Wikipedia? Would this require a plugin
or is it a template? -[[User:Level|Lөv]][[User talk:Level|ө]][[Special:Contributions/Level|l]] 13:02, 29 March 2007 (EDT)
*Heh, I thought about that too. I justified it by telling myself that they're pretty much in order by column, not alphabetically. (Though footnote #3 is still out of whack). I don't think we should get rid of the Amid note. Without doing any research into wikipedia's footnote system, I think they use templates, but I'm not positive. However, we are not real heavy on the footnotes -- if we don't use the episode or GN as a reference, we cite our source right in the article. And I only know 2 or 3 other pages that utilize footnotes -- I'm not sure it's worth trying to copy Wikipedia. ... I'll change the numbers now so I don't feel so bugged about it. :) &mdash; [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 13:09, 29 March 2007 (EDT)
*The &lt;ref> system does not appear to be built in to MediaWiki, but it doesn't use templates.  It maust be an add-on.  It might be worth getting, though.  It would make this a lot easier to maintain.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 14:15, 29 March 2007 (EDT)
**Ah, others looking for footnotes!  I've been meaning to use the <nowiki><ref> and </references></nowiki> system (called '''Cite.php''') at this Wiki for the longest time.  (It was what I had in mind as a way to include and mark several canon statements that are seemingly conflicting by using a linked footnote to easily point out the conflict to readers.)  Yes, Cite.php is an extension.  You can find out more about it [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cite/Cite.php here].
== Location tab ==
We need some clarification on this section. First, is it a birthplace or last known location? Since our heroes are moving around the country/world throughout the series, I think the location to refer to a permanent residence of sorts. For example, Hiro resides in Tokyo, was born in Osaka, and is currently in New York. I think Tokyo would be the correct location to place. Hana resides in Montana, though she's been all over the place lately. So, I think we should stick with what people would consider "home" for location: the location of their main domicile.--[[User:Baldbobbo|Bob]] 17:44, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
* Agreed.  Given several of the character's seeming ability to cross the globe in seconds (i.e. HRG in ''Genesis''), I think noting current locations is asking for trouble.  I for one would prefer just confirmed residences--which works nicely since the whole reason the column is there is for people from [[the list]] and [[the journal]], which list home locations.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 17:51, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
**Absolutely. I mainly added this due to the back and forth with regards to the Crane boy and others whose residence may not be known, but a location is. In this case, a simple "unknown" or nothing at all would be sufficient.--[[User:Baldbobbo|Bob]] 17:54, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
*** When I first added the location column to this page as it was being morphed into the grid, the intent was of 'prominent' or 'important' location; not birthplace.  In the case of crane-boy, the only reference location we have on him is Odessa, so it should remain until another more prominent location is given.  'unknown' gives no information.....and is worthless as a resource tool.  This page is a resource page on evolved humans and should help give us info on them, not hide info about them.  IMO.  <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 05/3/2007 18:01 (EST)</small>
****The location column should really match the "Home" line from the [[template:character box|character box]]es. (In fact I think "Location" should be changed to "Home" on the list of evolved humans.) When we start saying that something is "prominent or important" it opens up a huge window of speculation and subjective judgments. Hiro has been in NYC and Vegas much more than he has been in Japan, but it would not make sense for him to have anything but Tokyo as his location. Some characters have lived in more than one place (we know Hana lived in Israel and Montana, Eden lived in LA, NYC, and Utah) so it would make sense that they have more than one location listed. But just because a character is ''seen'' in one place or because they spend a lot of time there does not make it their home. &mdash; [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 15:26, 4 May 2007 (EDT)
== Canon and Near-Canon Inclusion ==
Historically, this page has been an all-inclusive listing of Canon (Episodes) and Near-Canon (GNs, Heroes 360, Journal).  I just found today, that [http://www.activatingevolution.org/email.shtml the Heroes 360 AE site has a new Mailbag tab], (that is uneditable by the public unlike the AE wiki), that lists '''two new people with evolved powers''' that should probably be listed on this page for documentation.  ('''Rick H., and Matt S.''')  Perhaps we should bust this page out into two lists, a confirmed primary canon list, and a suspect/secondary canon list....I'm not sure if that is best or not.  But if we only hold this page as a list of primary canon only, we would have to remove alot of people from it.  I think it best serves the Heroes community as an all-inclusive resource list for documentation; not one that is too scrutinized so that it only contains primary canon sources. 
This page, is the most inclusive and fully documented list that exists that I am aware of, from all Heroes sites, for documenting Evolved Humans, or possible/suspected evolved humans.  I would hate to see it diminish instead of grow.
Regardless, we should probably update the leading paragraph of this page explaining the 'canon' criteria, and linking to the [[Canon]] page so others will be clear on the inclusion rules. <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 06/26/2007 16:28 (EST)</small>
* I don't think we need to link to a help page from the intro text of a page.  That seems really awkward and unnecessary--one's an actual content page, the other is a behind-the-scenes meta page about this Wiki.  And I don't really think the mailbag falls within the "near canon" scope of other Heroes 360 content because it appears to be fan-submitted (according to the AE.org main page), so it's really no different than me saying I'm an evolved human and adding myself to the list.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 16:43, 26 June 2007 (EDT)
** I agree 'if' it is possible to submit emails to the mailbag...but from what I can determine about it, it is no different than Hiro's blog....only official NBC Hero people can update it....not regular people like you and me.  It therefore is a list 'they' have created, no different than Hiro's Blog entries....or Hana's entries....or the entries on the other 360 sites. If you can determine that regular people like us can submit to the mailbag, then I agree that Rick H. and Matt S. should not be listed.  <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 06/26/2007 16:47 (EST)</small>
*** It's more like the tips on Hana's blog.  On Hana's blog, you sent text messages, and NBC posted them.  Some were pretty ridiculous and definitely not canon.  On AE.org, you send an email to Mohinder's address (which used to be on the front page of the wiki, with a suggestion to email him, back when I could get the wiki to come up--screenshot [[:Image:Ae_theories.jpg|here]]) and NBC posts them.  It's still fan-created content, even if it's moderated through NBC.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 16:52, 26 June 2007 (EDT)
**** The letters seem to be written in universe, so they are ether written by NBC or they only picked fan letters that were in universe (which they didn't seem to do on [[Hana's website]]), they also removed any way for fans to send more so the frist is more likely. They are still non cannon though, but so are the names on the [[interactive map]], especially Joe Landers. Ether all the non canon should be moved or include these and have a note like the others. -[[User:Level|Lөv]][[User talk:Level|ө]][[Special:Contributions/Level|l]] 13:05, 29 June 2007 (EDT)
***** Since this is ultimately an encyclopedia/resource site for all things Heroes, I think we should be inclusive not exclusive in our list of Evolved Humans.  Otherwise, who is going to have a more complete and thorough documented resource?  Before we ever got to a point of considering exclusion or removal, we should simply restructure our list(s) to be explanatory enough to allow all Evloved Humans to be included and documented.  The webspace isn't suffering, and until NBC starts to through out evolved humans by the hundreds that we can't keep up with to document, we should do our best to have the most complete list. My point in starting this discussion really had nothing to do with inclusion/exclusion from the list based on canon, but moreso whether separate groupings of the list should be made with consideration of the levels of canon. <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 06/29/2007 13:16 (EST)</small>
***** Reading through them they appear to me to be fan-created.  It looks like they just picked ones that were well-written and in-universe.  Since they're fan-written and not mentioned elsewhere their canonicity (even extending as far as near-canonical sources) is highly suspect.  They shouldn't be included on this page unless we see them mentioned elsewhere on a truely canonical or near-canonical source.  When canonicity is in doubt, err on the side of non-inclusion.  On pages focusing on canonical information (which is virtually every page short of user pages, fan creations, theories, and spoilers), the canonicity must be satisfied primarily above all other things.  It wouldn't make sense, for instance, for me to call myself an evolved human on a page focusing on canonical information just because I want to pretend to be one.  ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 13:21, 29 June 2007 (EDT))
***** Your latter reasoning is sound, but here is where your former reasoning falls short.  In this case, the NBC powers-that-be who choose to populate near-canon information (Heroes 360 sites in this case), chose to populate the AE Mailbag with two evolved humans.  That puts the NBC near-canonical stamp on it, in a way none of us could do to any other webpage.  NBC decides which mailbag entries it chooses to show for Heroes 360 in no different manner as it decides what to show on Hiro's blog or the Primatech Paper website.  It isn't fans choosing what is listed there.  So if we say Heroes 360 is near-canonical, and there is no way for regular joes like us ''to submit and '''approve''' '' a listing of an evolved human to a Heroes 360 page, then it should still fall in the realm of near-canonical....(if Heroes 360 continues to be handled as near-canonical).  Right now, both of us could try as hard as we possibly can to create and get a Evolved Human character added to any of the Heroes-360 sites, but unless NBC decides to allow and 'stamp it', we can't do it.  Since NBC chose to publish a mailbag on 360 with two evolved human entries within it, we should allow NBC's choice to stand, because they (NBC-Heroes), not you, I, or some other fan 3 months ago....had the final say on that inclusion on that 360 site.  See my point? <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 06/29/2007 14:09 (EST)</small>
****** However Hana's blog is also Heroes 360 and received a large number of postings that wouldn't realistically be considered near-canon.  We can't assume that fan content posted on a Heroes 360 site has any type of implied approval in terms of canonicity.  ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 14:29, 29 June 2007 (EDT))
==Just to say==
I have [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Therequiembellishere/Evolved_humans_%28Heroes%29 my own] list that was made before I knew about this. It only has named people and as IO state at the beginning, I've made my own personal guesses (i.e. David Berman was killed my Sylar) so please don't edit it, it's for my use and I'll just get rid of it later. [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 03:46, 20 November 2007 (EST)
U got a couple of the names wrong -_-" --[[User:(. .')|(. .&#39;)]] 05:53, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:No, I make the Petrelli's more of a family. :-) Because I'm sure you have every thing perfect in your infinite knowledge of the show. [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 18:19, 19 February 2008 (EST)
== Power Names ==
If one was to click on Digital Communication for Hana on her article or on this list it takes you to Electronic Communication. Shouldn't Digital Communication link to Digital Communication or shouldn't the list and and her article say Electronic Communication? Right now Drucker on this list and on his article both say & link to Electronic Communication.--[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] 08:23, 28 February 2008 (EST)
* They are different names for the same [[ability]], the names were given on their [[primatechpaper.com#Assignment Tracker 2.0|Assignment Tracker case files]] on [[primatechpaper.com]]. [[Electronic communication]] is a more general term and [[Digital communication]] is more modern. -[[User:Level|Lөv]][[User talk:Level|ө]][[Special:Contributions/Level|l]] 10:57, 28 February 2008 (EST)
**It's ridiculous that we have one person listed as Electronic and another as Digital and they both link to Electronic. It should be consistent. --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] 20:08, 28 February 2008 (EST)
*** I agree, I wish it could be consistent, but we didn't make the distinction. Whether purposeful or accidental, the [[primatechpaper.com]] tracker files list them as such, therefore we do too. But it actually does make a bit of sense to me: if Drucker had been using his powers back in the '70s or earlier, the term "digital" would have made very little sense--his power would have been manifest through electronic devices. Hana discovered her power in September 2006, well into the digital age. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 20:22, 28 February 2008 (EST)
*Since Drucker used his in the Digital Age as witnessed in the GNs then his is also Digital and thus should be changed to Digital as well and the article for the power renamed. --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] 20:34, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
** Not exactly. We need to list them how the assignment tracker lists them, since they are both mainly [[Heroes Evolutions]] characters; and the assignment tracker lists Drucker as "electronic".--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 20:45, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
***Take that first sentence and get rid of Not and you will be correct. Both have the same power and both used them in the digital age thus they are either both electronic or both digital, both ways won't cut it. --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] 20:47, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
**** But they don't have the same power. Their abilities are so similar we have the same article but that doesn't mean they are exactly the same, and if the Company thought they had the same power they'd name it the same but they don't.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 20:54, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
***** The GNs show differently. They showed them doing exactly the same thing. Drucker's file was obviously written as if it was written before the digital age, and since the last update The Company did they had no reason to revise his file further except to mark him deceased, at that point it would be moot to clarify the power as digital. They have the same power just like the Father & Son Parkman have the same power. --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] 21:02, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
***** Huh? Bob knew Drucker was alive. That's why he tortured Goose and turned him into a golden statue.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 21:11, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
****** Knowing one is alive and and having something to update a file with is another. Now Bob knows he is dead since he intentionally had the computer he consciousness was in destroyed. --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] 21:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
******* They learned he was in the computer mainframe. That was new information.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 21:20, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
******* And then they killed him, unless they expected him to some how miraculously survive adding that to his file would be pretty much be a waste of time. --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] 21:25, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
******** Stranger things have happened. ;)--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 21:43, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
**** Heroes Wiki does not exist to determine whether or not two people had the same power, to "create" names for abilities, or to guess the nature of what evolved humans can do. We are exist to chronicle the world of ''Heroes''. The power names come from the [[assignment tracker]] pages. Since the files list their powers as different names, so do we. It's also mentioned that they have the same power, so both [[digital communication]] and [[electronic communication]] link to the same page. This is the best way to note that they have the same power, yet different names for the same thing. Think of it as calling a carbonated beverage "soda" if you're from one area of the country and "pop" if you're from another. Same thing, but we respect the language used in different areas. Same power, but we respect the names given in the assignment tracker profiles. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 22:38, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
== Suspected by the Company? ==
Why are these in a separate list? We have had others who have been mentioned as having a power but they never demonstrated it, like [[Khufu]] and the Middle school boy. What makes these different? If you want them differentiated add a footnote or something. -[[User:Level|Lөv]][[User talk:Level|ө]][[Special:Contributions/Level|l]] 03:10, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
* I agree, it's really odd to separate them. Many of the people on this page come from [[the list]], which really is just a list of people suspected by Chandra, I suppose. I mean, Claire was originally on that list until her father asked for her to be removed (''[[Six Months Ago]]''), and that was before she ever manifested any ability. I think if the Company says the guy in Levittown can teleport, then he can teleport. If Penny, Elle, and Thompson II go after a Croatian who can manipulate weather, then he's an evolved human, just like everybody else on this page. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 07:37, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
** I was thinking a separate list for those suspected by the Company but that had not demonstrated an ability to the viewer was appropriate. I removed the separation for now.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 12:34, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
*** In general, I don't think it's always necessary to see a manifestation of a power to have confirmation that the individual is an evolved human. The [[Crane boy]] is a good example--he had a test performed which confirmed his status, but he never manifested a power. Many of the people on [[the list]] fall under this category, too. I don't know how the agents of the Company know what they know, but if they say somebody has a power, I think at this point in time we should take that as confirmation enough in most cases....Thanks for making the switch back over. Looks good. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 21:22, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
== Posthuman ==
[[The German]]'s [[Assignment Tracker]] profile says "the subject was a ''posthuman'' capable of [[Magnetism|manipulating metal]]" so apparently we now have an explicit term to refer to those who have special [[abilities]]. Should we change all instances of "evolved human" to "posthuman"?--[[User:Referos|Referos]] 13:55, 15 July 2008 (EDT)
*(bump)--[[User:Referos|Referos]] 13:01, 21 July 2008 (EDT)
**Hmmm how cannon are the Assigment trackers? Have they not been called evolved humans from more cannon sources?--[[User:Skywalkerrbf|Skywalkerrbf]] 13:08, 21 July 2008 (EDT)
*** Any content from Heroes Evolutions is near-canon, so episodes are above the Assignment Tracker, but I think we consider the webisodes and graphic novels more reliable in case of a contradiction. In any case, I don't remember if "evolved human" was used in a canon source or if it's just a fan-created term.--[[User:Referos|Referos]] 13:17, 21 July 2008 (EDT)
* Ok, I've added the rename template just to call some attention since this topic remains unnoticed.--[[User:Referos|Referos]] 18:17, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
** I think evolved human was a term mentioned by Chandra/Mohinder in an episode.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 18:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
**** Assignment tracker is a near-canon source and episodes are the top canon source so we stick with evolved humans. There are plenty of different names for these people but evolved humans is the most frequent so I think we should stick with it. Homo superior is technically what they are, but w/e. lol. [[User:Jason Garrick|Jason Garrick]] 23:33, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
***** ''Homo superior'' is just a stupid designation used in X-Men, while "posthuman" is a term used in [[wikipedia:transhumanism|transhumanism]].
Anyway, after searching a bit to see where the term "evolved human" originated, I've found (more like unearthed, actually) the following comment from [[User:RyanGibsonStewart|Ryan]] in the [[Talk:Empathic mimicry/Archive 1|archive of the empathic mimicry discussion]], dating from 1/30/07:
{{message|[...]Metahuman is not a real word (though it makes a lot of sense). Here at Heroes Wiki, we've been using "evolved humans". It's all made up by fans, anyway. And we need to remember that Tim Kring has made it very public that he is not a "comic book guy", and purposely stays away from the genre so he remains unaffected by popular comic book themes and ideas. - [[User:RyanGibsonStewart|RyanGibsonStewart]] [[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|(talk)]] 17:35, 30 January 2007 (EST) }}
Which means "evolved human" is a fan-term, so, unless someone remembers seeing it in an episode from [[Season Two]], we should stick to "posthuman". Or maybe I'm missing something?--[[User:Referos|Referos]] 10:39, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
*[[Mohinder]] in ''([[Genesis]])'' states: ''Teleportation, levitation, tissue regeneration. Is this outside the realm of possibility? Or is '''man''' entering a new gateway to '''evolution'''?'' A first-level canon example specifically tying the powers to'' '''man's evolution''' '' or the abbreviated version we have always used of '''evolved human'''.  A much higher Canon naming convention than "posthuman" IM0. <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 07/26/2008 23:13 (EST)</small>
** I agree with HDS.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 23:37, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
*** Hmm, seems reasonable, but my main complain is that he didn't say "evolved human" explicitly. He just say that man is evolving. Actually, based on Mohinder's comment, we should call them "evolving humans", since he used present continuous ("man ''is entering'' evolution", not "man ''has entered'' evolution"). My point is that he is just describing them, not naming them. And, besides, "posthuman" is also a term related to human evolution.--[[User:Referos|Referos]] 12:26, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
My take: Evolved Human is a ''fan created'' term ''constructed'' from a level 1 canon source, Mohinder's lecture. Posthuman is a Level 2 canon term, '''coined and in use by''' the Company, one of the leading experts in these people. In my opinion, explicitly named terms should always trump constructed terms, regardless of the source for the terms in question. --{{User:SacValleyDweller/sig}} 21:49, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
* I agree. I don't think our naming conventions cover this, but it seems to me that there are three factors when considering names for things: the canonicity of the source, the explicitness of the term (whether is constructed by fans or explicitly used) and the in-world credibility of the source (for example, Mohinder's "adoptive muscle memory" trumps Micah's "muscle mimicry"). In this case, "evolved human" was made by fans based on a canon source, while "posthuman" was used explicitly. Both come from credible sources, since Mohinder and the Company conduct research on people with abilities.--[[User:Referos|Referos]] 22:16, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
*I agree SVD, that's one of the flaws in the naming convention. But we've also used episode references over direct interviews: for example, Elle's power of Lightning when an interview with Aron and Joe said electrokinesis. Or when Tim Kring calls Maya's power a plague but we changed it to poison emission. Maybe we should think about re-wording the naming convention and edit it while we're trying to solve the post human.
My last thought is that we should wait to see if the word posthuman is used again. If it is, then we should definitely change it. [[User:Jason Garrick|Jason Garrick]] 23:19, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
*Miami's contacted RGS about transcripts. He can see if there's been something from the shows. [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 13:45, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
I've found something: a near-canon source is contradicting another near-canon source! According to [[Bridget Bailey]]'s first email, [[Chandra]] used the term "evolved human" is his book ''[[Activating Evolution]]''. Yes, Bridget was created by BBC, but since she was "adopted" by NBC we have considered her canon. I suppose we should just ignore "posthuman" for now.--[[User:Referos|Referos]] 21:21, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
**On the other hand, it could be argued that Primatech Paper is a higher-canon than Bridget because it is an older source that comes directly from NBC, not just through a partnership. Also, posthuman came second, which supersedes evolved human (pending the transcript search). [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 00:17, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
***Posthuman again used in Echo De Mille's Tracker, this time as post-human. [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 18:00, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
**'''Evolved Human''' It may be a question of perception, but evolved human refers to a human with additional capabilities, while posthuman is a species that comes after humans.  Could a posthuman and a human mate and produce viable ofspring?--<font face=Verdana>[[User:gaarmyvet|<span style="background-color:#0000FF;color:#FFFFFF">Jim in Georgia </span>]][[User Talk:gaarmyvet|<span style="background-color:#0000FF;color:#FF0000">Talk </span>]][[Special:Contributions/gaarmyvet|<span style="background-color:#0000FF;color:#000000">Contribs</span>]]</font> 14:50, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
* I've searched the transcripts for Seasons One and Two. The word "posthuman" was never used, nor was the term "evolved human", though [[Mohinder]] talks extensively about humans and [[evolution]] together (''[[Genesis]]''). [[Assignment tracker]] files use the term "posthuman", but also refer to "evolutionary anomaly class". In the end, I think this is a case of two near canon sources both using similar terms. Neither source is ranked above the other (nor should be), and one does not negate the other (thankfully). There is no reason the two can't coexist. It's kind of like using the word [[ability]] or [[power]] to describe the same exact thing. Six of one, half-dozen of the other. I say leave good enough alone. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 20:42, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
**Gaarmyvet: [[Monty]]/[[Simon]] [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 21:22, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
**In light of RGS' last comment, I'd still like to say that evsdropr has used posthuman in his/her latest email. It seems like it's becoming the new term. [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 23:49, 5 August 2008 (EDT)
*** Agree. I still don't think we need to make a widespread change, but it does seem like a very purposeful shift in terminology (or at least the beginning of a coined term). I'm still fine with either choice, but we might want to think about moving this page and the category (ugh!). Other narrative instances can probably left alone, but title should probably change. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 00:32, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
**** Is it purposeful, and by whom? The last post by evsdropr points to a [http://www.primatechpaper.com/AT_2.0/at_map_file.php map file]. All the entries that are blue/green were not entered by fans, and they all use the term "evolved human", not posthuman. It doesn't seem that purposeful a change to me.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 01:23, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
**** I don't think we should do any renaming of this unless we get word from the writers that it's the new "official" term they're using rather than just a few occurrences of it.  If it's just a few occurrences then it's almost the same as "ability" and "power" where we could use either.  If it comes down to that then it'd be a lot of work for a pretty superficial change and I'd be skeptical that consensus for the change would be reached.  ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 02:00, 6 August 2008 (EDT))
**** Yeah, I guess we should wait. Miami, it links there but evs uses the word posthuman. [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 03:06, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
***** Evs's messages are still part of Heroes evolutions.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 03:12, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
****** I know, I didn't think you'd seen it. What blue/green entries? ''I'' didn't see those. [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 03:20, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
******* Make sure all the checkmarks of the legend are checked.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 03:22, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
******** Whoa. They were before but didn't show up until I added one. [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 03:23, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
********* Now that I've seen the map, it's true that both terms are coexisting. Before I didn't see the map, and the term "evolved human" had never actually been used anywhere in the world of ''Heroes'', so far as I could find. The only thing I saw was some ATs and an email that definitely used the term "posthuman". Since both terms are being used (and "evolved human" seems to be taking the lead in the number of times it's used), I don't see any reason to make a big switch. I think "evolved human" is fine for the category and article titles; either term can be used in a narrative setting. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 13:58, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
********** I agree with RGS for now leave it as evolved human ''unless'' specified otherwise. There is no point of us going in and changing from evolved human to posthuman (though personally i like posthuman better) for Mohinder to just go out and use evolved human. Though posthuman is more canon, a direct near-canon term vs indirect (even fan created) near-canon term, do you really want to have to change EACH individual use? If it does seem to big of a chore just try a random pae and look for the word evolved human it will probably be there somewhere. [[User:Shoyru1177|Shoyru1177]] 20:42, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
* Though the majority on the map do not, I will say that the Haitian's entry does use "posthuman". [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 09:51, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
** Actually, I've found a few now that use posthuman, though the majority use evolved human. I hadn't noticed that you could zoom in.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 12:32, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
*** The Map pretty much confirms that the two terms can coexist at the same time. For instance, the one about the Haitian: "The Haitian is an '''evolved human''' agent with the ability to suppress other's '''posthuman''' abilities.". I will remove the rename template.--[[User:Referos|Referos]] 15:53, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
**** For now, yes, I think that's the best thing to do. I'd personally like to see one become the higher name in time. Miami, other blue/greens? [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 16:09, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
== Interactive map ==
I don't have access to this new interactive map (which I'm assuming is in the assignment tracker page mentioned by evsdropr last night). Can somebody either upload an image of it, or just let me know the contents? It would certainly help me be better informed on the [[#Posthuman|above discussion]]. Thanks! -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 10:10, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
* Did you try the [http://www.primatechpaper.com/AT_2.0/at_map_file.php link] in the above discussion?  ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 10:26, 6 August 2008 (EDT))
** Yep. Can't access it from camp. 'Sides, from what I can gather, it would probably be good info to either reproduce or have a snapshot image of. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 10:46, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
*** I'll try and grab a few screenshots, but it's a big map...--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 12:33, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
**** Nevermind, I think I found a way to hack in...plus, I'll be home from camp next week. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 13:40, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
***** Good; not sure if it's the traffic, but the map is giving me some loading troubles today.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 13:41, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
****** My connection is super super slow at camp. (Just check the time between my edits...Yikes!) I kept getting a blank AT page that would say "Loading" even after an hour or two. I finally got it to come up, and now I just keep the page open, and nothing is slow at loading anymore. Yippee! -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 13:55, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
*Since it is admitted that they are using fake entries and labeling them as real ones, how can we use this map as canon? Just a thought.--{{User:Baldbobbo/sig}} 22:55, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
** The user-created entries are a different color.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 23:14, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
***Did you see the email from evsdropr though? It appears they are promoting fan-created entries. I haven't looked at the map, but I would imagine some of the entries that haven't been mentioned before or in GNs are the ones they've promoted.--{{User:Baldbobbo/sig}} 23:42, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
**** Right, they are verifying some of the fan-created entries. That isn't a bad thing, is it? Anyways, the verified entries are a different color from the other entries.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 01:13, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
***** Can the new assignments (agent info) be trusted? -[[User:Level|Lөv]][[User talk:Level|ө]][[Special:Contributions/Level|l]] 01:54, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
****** The verified entries and assignments can both be trusted. It's the unverified markers that can't be trusted. I think Bob was reading too much into evsdropr's comments. Evs just meant that we had entered fake entries and they were accepted for investigation by the Company.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 02:43, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
*******What I was talking about is Bridget B's partnet in London and a few others that I've never heard of.--{{User:Baldbobbo/sig}} 02:56, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
Both of whom come directly from NBC, they ''can'' be trusted. [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 10:32, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
*I don't really understand why ppl like Markus Gaines isn't considered confirmed. Anyhow - the confirmed names only appearing on the AT-map (e.g. Markus Gaines) and the confirmed names only appearing on the interactive Suresh map (e.g. Arthur Dowland) should be treated the same, no matter if we decide to list them as confirmed (which I think, and which is the way we list the Suresh map names) or unconfirmed. [[User:Pierre|Pierre]] 19:05, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
**I agree. They are the "verified tips" which means some research has gone into them. [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 19:36, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
==Pages for minor evolved humans==
Felipe Acerra, Byron Bevington, Penkala Burton, Tracy Chobham, Pam Green, Adam Soo Hoo and Michelle Valcek all have their own pages. Some people think that they should be delted. I think they should all be put onto one page, seen [[User:Skywalkerrbf/Sandbox|here]]. --[[User:Skywalkerrbf|Skywalkerrbf]] 07:39, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
* I don't think they should be deleted at all. I think the pages as they are look fine. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 11:25, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
** Most important is that the same goes for every character - as it is now, some have their own articles, some are linked to this articles, and some only appears on the list. Not good at all... [[User:Pierre|Pierre]] 14:55, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
*** Now that some of the Company agents have been given portraits in their tips, shouldn't they get their own page?--[[User:Referos|Referos]] 20:20, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
**** I don't see why not. We have quite a bit of info about them, and now that we have some pictures, it sure seems like they'd make some good articles! :) -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 21:18, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
==Can Wiki do a "Counter"?==
Not sure if Wiki can do a counter, but it would be nice in the confirmed/unconfirmed table at the top, if we could have a auto-counter that told us how many EHs we have catalogued. <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 08/14/2008 10:06 (EST)</small>
== Sortable table? ==
Would it be useful to have the table sortable? I have made a template that would allow it here: [[User:Level/Evolved]]. Some entries would have to be fixed and we may have to use some hidden sort codes for the name of some of them. -[[User:Level|Lөv]][[User talk:Level|ө]][[Special:Contributions/Level|l]] 14:47, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
* The more I've seen the sortable tables that you're so fond of, Level, the more and more I like them. I think it's worth a bit of an overhaul or adding extra code to make it sortable. It would certainly help with sorting [[List of evolved humans by country|multiple locations]] and [[List of abilities with multiple users|multiple abilities]]. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 15:07, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
** Sortable tables are my favourites. :-) [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 16:45, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
*** I added the sortable table to the [[List of evolved humans#List of Suspected Evolved Humans|List of Suspected Evolved Humans]] for people to see. I had thought that because the list could now be sorted it didn't need to be in "last name, first name" order, so I removed it, it looks like [[User:Chrisyu357|Chrisyu357]] changed it back manually, I can make it do it automatically again if it still should be displayed like that. -[[User:Level|Lөv]][[User talk:Level|ө]][[Special:Contributions/Level|l]] 13:02, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
== Level 5 ==
Has anybody noticed Jesse Murphy's file in the season 3 promo next to [[Knox]]'s file? Maybe he is not deceased but prisoned in a level 5 cell. Check out the snapshot I took.[[Image:Level 5 Files.jpg]]--Rvsdl 11:38, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
* See [[Spoiler:Jesse Murphy|here]]. Who's to say Jess is Jesse? --{{User:Baldbobbo/sig}} 14:36, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
* And who's to say the Company doesn't keep files on people even after they are dead?--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 14:53, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
== A new list ==
Those who have powers gained through a formula like the one Mohinder has or the one The Company has should be listed seperately from the truly Evolved Humans. They are not evolved they are merely enhanced through science. --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] 21:49, 22 September 2008 (EDT)
* Agree...or at least a new section. As a note, Sylar is an evolved human with the power of what we call [[intuitive aptitude]]. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 21:53, 22 September 2008 (EDT)
* What does Sylar have to do with a new list? He is listed as such on the current list. --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] 22:12, 22 September 2008 (EDT)
** I just want to avoid anybody thinking that he is not evolved since so many of his powers are forcefully and unnaturally obtained (like Mohinder's). I'm just pointing out that Sylar, too, is evolved. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 22:29, 22 September 2008 (EDT)
Anyone with half a brain who has watched the show would know that. You have to assume a level of intelligence, and not state the obvious. When someone proves themselves that retarded then point it out. --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] 23:10, 22 September 2008 (EDT)
== Couple of corrections ==
* Just wanted to make sure before changing these (especially the first one):  Considering recent events, do we know for certain that Linderman is dead?  Also, I think it's safe to assume 'Jess Murphy' = 'Jesse Murphy.'  [[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 11:32, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
**Linderman ''is'' dead, and Jess Murphy is actually Jesse Murphy's father.--{{User:Baldbobbo/sig}} 12:58, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
***Was that said in the tracker page? [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 13:19, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
****Linderman being dead was shown when D.L. killed him, and considering no one but Nathan can see him right now, we have to assume he's a figment of his imagination due to Nathan's current condition. Jess Murphy was noted on Heroes Evolutions. Personally, I think this was them muffing up, and their way of correcting it. Jess Murphy would have made better sense as his mom, though.--[[User:Riddler|Riddler]] 13:58, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
***** The former was clear, but where in Evolutions? [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 17:30, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
****** Interactive*, sorry. It was during the most recent episode, hosted by Sprint.  [[Heroes Interactive:One of Us, One of Them]]--[[User:Riddler|Riddler]] 17:47, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
****** Check out Jesse's [[assignment tracker]] profile. The text of his personal history is copied [[Jesse Murphy#Heroes Evolutions|here]]. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 20:55, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
== Something's broken ==
No idea how to fix it. [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 03:59, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
* I think I see what you mean. The known and suspected EH's are being put under the Suspected heading. --{{User:SacValleyDweller/sig}} 23:53, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
** Yep. [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 23:56, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
***Fixed.--[[User:Matchu|Matchu]] 00:14, 12 October 2008 (EDT)
**** Yeah, someone had deleted the closing "<nowiki>|}</nowiki>" for the List of Evolved Humans wikitable. Nice catch, Matchu.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 00:16, 12 October 2008 (EDT)
*****Took me awhile! XD --[[User:Matchu|Matchu]] 00:17, 12 October 2008 (EDT)
****** WOW! 2 missing characters fouled up the whole works! *shakes head* --{{User:SacValleyDweller/sig}} 00:23, 12 October 2008 (EDT)
== speculation...needs fixing but I don't know how ==
* It's speculation that the Constrictor has the snake mimicry power, as he has only displayed contriction, and his page lists his ability as such, whereas the Snake man displayed the ability to mimic different types of snakes.  I don't know how to remove whatever is linking snake mimicry to constriction, but the linking should be deleted. [[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 07:41, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
** It's an old redirect we used for [[the Constrictor]] before we really knew much about his power...but since it's not really the name of his power, I'll go ahead and delete the redirect. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 08:10, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
== Samedi ==
At what point would it be the right time to add [[Spoiler:Samedi|Samedi]]? When he first appears on the show or in a graphic novel? Now since we know who will be playing him? After it has been spoiled what power he has? --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] 13:13, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
* After he appears in some form, whether it's a graphic novel or an episode. If he's only mentioned in some way (like we see a folder with his name on it, or Bennet says, "Okay, now I gotta go get that other villain Samedi!") then we would make a page about him but not include the actor's name. If the actor appears (like we see his assignment tracker profile but we don't actually meet the live guy), we would include the actor but say he was just mentioned. Basically, we wait until there is some mention of the guy by name within the world of ''Heroes''. Since he hasn't appeared anywhere I'm aware of, he's still a spoiler and we don't include him at all. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 15:51, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
== Evolved Human Page ==
Am I the only one who believes that there be a page about WHAT an evolved human is?
Something that shows what makes an evolved human (lineage/eclipse/formula) and things that have meaning to E.H.'s (helix symbol/eclipse). We have pages for basically every aspect of E.H.'s but I think it would be good to have a page that groups everything together and has links to the other articles. Am I alone in this opinion? -- <span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight:bold;"></span>'''[[User:Elemental Manipulator|Elemental Manipulator]]'''</span> [ [[User:Elemental Manipulator|U]] | [[User_talk:Elemental Manipulator|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Elemental Manipulator|C]] ]'''</small> - <span style="color:green;">When in doubt, ask BTE </span> 02:24, 16 December 2008 (EST)
==Examples from the Transcripts of Episodes, Graphic Novels, and Webisodes that refer to powered-people as '''''special''''':==
==Examples from the Transcripts of Episodes, Graphic Novels, and Webisodes that refer to powered-people as '''''special''''':==
<br>
GN:  The Caged Bird, Part 1
"You're wrong. You're '''''special'''''."
<br>
GN:  Doyle
"That's because they're afraid of you. The other agents. They think you're evil. They look at me like that too. (shows off his ability to generate lasers) Just because we're...'''''special'''''."
<br>
GN:  Dreams Until Death
"Now tell me...which one of you two agent's is the '''''special''''' one?"
<br>
"You're not '''''special'''''? You lied."
<br>
GN:  Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, Part 1
"Months prior to Evs Dropper's poisoning of the Company; it's still business as usual: tracking '''''specials''''' around the world, bagging and tagging them."
<br>
<br>
GN:  Family Man
GN:  Family Man
Line 322: Line 35:
GN:  String Theory
GN:  String Theory
"After the bomb went off, people like me -- '''''special''''' people -- we became hated."
"After the bomb went off, people like me -- '''''special''''' people -- we became hated."
<br>
GN:  Turning Point
"For those with '''''special''''' abilities, a new and deadly threat has arisen: the serial killer Sylar."
<br>
GN:  Road Kill
"This man is not '''''special'''''. I get nothing from killing him."
<br>
"Chandra Suresh recently identified a waitress in Midland, Texas who like had a '''''special''''' ability."
<br>
Webisode:  The Recruit, Part 2
"I don't have an ability. I already told you, I'm not '''''special'''''."
<br>
<br>
Webisode:  The Recruit, Part 1
Webisode:  The Recruit, Part 1
Line 416: Line 140:
" Some individuals, it is true, are more '''''special'''''. This is natural selection. It begins as a single individual born or hatched like every other member of their species. Anonymous. Seemingly ordinary. Except they're not"
" Some individuals, it is true, are more '''''special'''''. This is natural selection. It begins as a single individual born or hatched like every other member of their species. Anonymous. Seemingly ordinary. Except they're not"
<br>
<br>


==Examples from the Transcripts of Episodes, Graphic Novels, and Webisodes that refer to powered-people as '''''evolved''''':==
==Examples from the Transcripts of Episodes, Graphic Novels, and Webisodes that refer to powered-people as '''''evolved''''':==
Line 466: Line 187:
** Yeah "special humans" seems weird.  "evoloved humans" however, just seems natural because that's the term the wiki has always used, and we've gotten used to it.  The actual phrase "evolved  human" (I don't think) has ever been used in canon or near-canon.  "Specials" has been used in both canon and near-canon alot; thus my reason for bringing up the discussion.  If we want to be more aligned with the canon and near-canon references, "specials" is more appropriate than "evolved humans". <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 12/18/2008 12:49 (EST)</small>
** Yeah "special humans" seems weird.  "evoloved humans" however, just seems natural because that's the term the wiki has always used, and we've gotten used to it.  The actual phrase "evolved  human" (I don't think) has ever been used in canon or near-canon.  "Specials" has been used in both canon and near-canon alot; thus my reason for bringing up the discussion.  If we want to be more aligned with the canon and near-canon references, "specials" is more appropriate than "evolved humans". <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 12/18/2008 12:49 (EST)</small>
***"Special" means that they could have anything from a power to Down Syndrome. It's not specific enough, even though most uses mean "people who have powers". We know that they're humans, and evolution has been refered to multiple times as the source of the powers, so calling them Evolved Humans is just logical. --[[User:Piemanmoo|Piemanmoo]] 21:54, 21 December 2008 (EST)
***"Special" means that they could have anything from a power to Down Syndrome. It's not specific enough, even though most uses mean "people who have powers". We know that they're humans, and evolution has been refered to multiple times as the source of the powers, so calling them Evolved Humans is just logical. --[[User:Piemanmoo|Piemanmoo]] 21:54, 21 December 2008 (EST)
**** It is logical, it is very logical; but it rarely used within the heroes universe; and "specials" and its variation is used a multitude of times throughout all of the heroes universe and all seasons.  EH makes good sense, because it is descriptive and it is what we've used from the beginning, so we're used to the term.  However, just from what has been overwhelmingly used within the show, GNS, and 360 material, 'specials' is by far, the most referred to way of identifying people with abilities. <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 12/23/2008 11:50 (EST)</small>
***** Other terms have been used just as explicitly, most notably "posthuman". I don't see any reason to prefer "specials" above other terms that are used. Frequency of use doesn't necessarily equate validity of term. In fact, I think the term "special" is quite loaded and has a connotation that does not necessarily apply. In the end, the show uses numerous terms for concept of a person with abilities, and they all co-exist in the world of ''Heroes''. So should it be with our site--multiple names are fine and can be used interchangeably. I see nothing wrong with using "evolved humans" in the title of this article. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 13:29, 23 December 2008 (EST)
****** I can let this go, not that big a deal.  What made me inclined to research it and bring it up, is solely because of the volume.  Posthuman has been used what, once, twice maybe?  "Evolved human" none...it is an implied term in about 7 or 8 unspecific references.  '''''Special''''' however, has been used close to 4 dozen times.  I just felt the weight of the useage towards '''''special''''' has grown so much larger than any other 'onscreen/gn/webisode' reference, that it was worth discussing. <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 12/23/2008 13:55 (EST)</small>
******* From another perspective, in near-canon sources, "evolved humans" is used 29 times on the [[assignment tracker map]] and once in [[Evs Dropper's messages]], "posthuman" is used twice on the map and thrice in messages, and "specials" is not used on the map and once in messages. "Evolved human" is used twice in [[Bridget's messages]], and it's implied that it's a term used by Chandra himself. Ultimately, I think we just need to use multiple terms on the site. Creating a redirect for [[specials]] was a good idea. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 02:41, 24 December 2008 (EST)
******** Also, the [[#Examples from the Transcripts of Episodes, Graphic Novels, and Webisodes that refer to powered-people as special:|above list of the word "special" being used]] only has two examples of the word being used as a noun. A graphic novel says, "tracking specials around the world," and a webisode says, "These 'specials' pose a threat to society." (Both are introductions, which is another murky area, but for the sake of the argument, we'll just say that they were in the source proper.) Most of the other "special" references refer to abilities (which really are special--they're very unusual) or to people (for instance, Claire calls Zach special). I guess what I'm getting at here is that doing a search for "special" in transcripted material will yield a much higher search result since the word "special" is a very common word. But seeing the word used as a noun to mean "people with abilities" is just about as rare as finding the term "evolved human" or "posthuman". -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 02:53, 24 December 2008 (EST)


== An attempt to clear up ability overlap. ==
== An attempt to clear up ability overlap. ==
Line 475: Line 201:
** We don't need a "similar abilities" section. Similar abilities are not the same abilities. This would also lead to very speculative posts (as it already has) about how powers work. I believe similar powers are already in the Notes sections of articles about abilities. I think that's probably enough. Anything else would actually muck up the overlap and confuse things more, I'm afraid. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 00:53, 23 December 2008 (EST)
** We don't need a "similar abilities" section. Similar abilities are not the same abilities. This would also lead to very speculative posts (as it already has) about how powers work. I believe similar powers are already in the Notes sections of articles about abilities. I think that's probably enough. Anything else would actually muck up the overlap and confuse things more, I'm afraid. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 00:53, 23 December 2008 (EST)
**I agree.  What I meant was, if we were forced to choose one of those options, I would go for simliar abilities.  I think that with amplification around, we may see all abilities do strange things.  Also, should people on this list be included if they have lost their abilities? -- {{User:Tristan0709/Signature}} 01:54, 23 December 2008 (EST)
**I agree.  What I meant was, if we were forced to choose one of those options, I would go for simliar abilities.  I think that with amplification around, we may see all abilities do strange things.  Also, should people on this list be included if they have lost their abilities? -- {{User:Tristan0709/Signature}} 01:54, 23 December 2008 (EST)
*** I think it's okay to list them. Maya is still an evolved human, which is what this page lists. I think we just need to make her ability field say "[[Poison emission]] ([[power theft|lost]])". -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 02:10, 23 December 2008 (EST)
== Shouldn't we? ==
is there a page spesificaly on evolved humans? if not, why cant there be? we still havent seen the connection from the brain to the adrenelian or how the set abilities are limeted by logical and phisical limits. we know of things like if and ability is mental, elemental, phisical or temproall/spatal, but not the limitation. we need to have soemthing more to describe evolved humans.
== We need an article and not a list. ==
This really serves more as a list than it does an article on explaining Evolve Humans. There's a lot of information about them such as abilities being passed on, activation by the eclipse, history of them (Abu's ancestors) showing how long they have been around, the different categories their abilities fall under, rights, movements, etc. It would defiantly take some work, but we need it, because right now this is only a list of Evolve Humans and nowhere does it explain them the depth that this topic deserves. --[[User:OutbackZack|OutbackZack]] 13:22, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
If you want an article about evolved humans make one. The list should not be changed in favor of your idea. --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] 15:39, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
*I never said change the list. I said have an article. That way anytime you click on Evolved Human it takes you to an article that better explains what one is instead of giving you a list. The list is a separate article in itself. Nowhere did I say change the list. --[[User:OutbackZack|OutbackZack]] 16:38, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
**Bump. Anyone want to help me to create this page? I guess we would make it a sub user page before we would publish it onto the main site. --[[User:OutbackZack|OutbackZack]] 10:28, 9 December 2009 (EST)
*** What would you like to write there? I can only think about something like "humans who develop special abilities are called evolved humans". {{User:Altes/Signature}} 03:52, 10 December 2009 (EST)
****There's a lot of things that we can cover. Here's what comes off the top of my head; the history of evolved humans (from the earliest known to their place in society), how abilities are passed down, the four main types of abilities, organizations that deal and have dealt with them, how their abilities were activated (the eclipse), and the list just goes on. --[[User:OutbackZack|OutbackZack]] 05:38, 10 December 2009 (EST)
***** Half of these should go to the abilities article, if one is to be made. {{User:Altes/Signature}}
******Yeah, we could use an ability page also. Then have a summary of the ability page on the evolved human page. I'm sure if we started to work on a page we'll think of information to put on it. After all, we do have a page about the Barbie doll and licence plate numbers haha. --[[User:OutbackZack|OutbackZack]] 05:56, 10 December 2009 (EST)
== iStory sources ==
I noticed that there is an inconsistency on how iStories are used as sources in this list. Some characters just have iStory as a source, some have a determined iStory, such as The Civilian or Faction Zero, and some have it right down to the chapter, such as The Civilian, chapter 503. Could we sort this out? [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 11:55, 3 September 2009 (EDT)
* It doesn't matter too much to me...but if you want my input, I'd go for just the name of the iStory chapter, i.e. [[The Civilian]] or [[Faction Zero]]. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 22:08, 3 September 2009 (EDT)
== Dennis ==
I know there was no demonstrated ability, but he was an evolved human, shouldn't he be still listed? We've listed people without knowing what their abilities were, haven't we? [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 11:55, 3 September 2009 (EDT)
* [[Dennis]] is categorized as a [[:Category:Humans|human]], as he should be. He has never demonstrated ability, has never been referred to as being an evolved human, and we have no concrete reason to believe that he has a power. The only two things that would lead one to believe he has an ability are his large pupils and the fact that he spent time in Level 5. Neither one of those is confirmation of being an evolved human; both characteristics have been associated with humans in other cases. See [[Talk:Dennis]]. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 22:14, 3 September 2009 (EDT)
== evo ==
How are we formatting the word "evo"? Are there any written examples of it being in all caps (EVO), or having just a first letter capitalized (Evo), or do we just see it as all lowercase (evo)? The only things I'm seeing is "EVO ABILITY" on the [[evo card]], but the whole card is written in caps, so that's not a good indicator. Anybody find any other examples of how it's written? -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 11:33, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
* Okay, I found [[:File:Evo-Supremicist attack.jpg|this]]. It says "At least 36 killed in alleged Evo-Supremicist attack". The word "Evo" is not in all caps, but just the first letter is capitalized. So I suppose the word can be written either with no caps or the first letter capitalized. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 11:47, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
** I've always just thought of it as short for "[[evolved human]]", and so having it all lowercase seemed natural to me. --[[User:Radicell|Radicell]] ([[User talk:Radicell|talk]]) 18:34, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
*I say wait to see how it is used on the show. Sounds to me like slur in the same vein as the n word. --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] ([[User talk:Snow Leapord|talk]]) 18:39, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
** Quentin uses it positively. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 19:32, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
***The N word is used positively by African-Americans especially rappers. The N word is still a racial slur. Just because one person uses it positively doesn't change anything. --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] ([[User talk:Snow Leapord|talk]]) 19:40, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
**** I don't think the two words are analogous. It seems like a forced comparison. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 20:12, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
***** Which is why I said '''WAIT''' to we see how it is used on the show. Anything else is speculation, and any insistence on discussing the word I am going to take the side of evo = N word. --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] ([[User talk:Snow Leapord|talk]]) 20:15, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
== Missing Persons at Odessa Summit ==
There is a Howard Kiddwell (possibly, hard to tell last name), Stuart last name ends in eldern, & most definitely Susan Erikston. All of three of them are on the missing persons board for Evos. None of those are listed I understand why the first two are not listed but is there a reason why Susan is not? --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] ([[User talk:Snow Leapord|talk]]) 14:06, 1 June 2017 (EDT)

Latest revision as of 13:06, 1 June 2017

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Examples from the Transcripts of Episodes, Graphic Novels, and Webisodes that refer to powered-people as special:


GN: The Caged Bird, Part 1 "You're wrong. You're special."
GN: Doyle "That's because they're afraid of you. The other agents. They think you're evil. They look at me like that too. (shows off his ability to generate lasers) Just because we're...special."
GN: Dreams Until Death "Now tell me...which one of you two agent's is the special one?"
"You're not special? You lied."
GN: Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, Part 1 "Months prior to Evs Dropper's poisoning of the Company; it's still business as usual: tracking specials around the world, bagging and tagging them."
GN: Family Man "And one he would encounter early in his career, who would become the most special person in his life: the girl called Claire."
GN: Hell's Angel "And one he would encounter early in his career, who would become the most special person in his life: the girl called Claire."
GN: Walls, Part 1 "Hiro and Ando jumped to a world where the bomb ripped apart New York City. Where special people were scapegoated and treated unfairly."
GN: String Theory "After the bomb went off, people like me -- special people -- we became hated."
GN: Turning Point "For those with special abilities, a new and deadly threat has arisen: the serial killer Sylar."
GN: Road Kill "This man is not special. I get nothing from killing him."
"Chandra Suresh recently identified a waitress in Midland, Texas who like had a special ability."
Webisode: The Recruit, Part 2 "I don't have an ability. I already told you, I'm not special."
Webisode: The Recruit, Part 1 "These marines were to be injected with experimental serum to aid in apprehending people with "special" abilities. These "specials" pose a threat to society."
Episode: Powerless "West, you're the one who said that we were special, that the rules didn't apply to us."
Episode: The Line "You are a very special person, Miss Dawson."
"I want to be special, unique. An ability doesn't have to be a burden, Maya. It can be wonderful."
Episode: Fight or Flight "Yeah. I know. But what do you think it all means? Having these -- these powers. I think it means that we're special."
Episode: Four Months Later... "And not only are these special individuals among us"
Episode: Landslide "You wanted to be special ... and you are! Destiny picked you, Hiro!"
Episode: The Hard Part "Because he said you should. He said you were very talented, and very special."
"Don't, it's just ... (sighs) ... maybe I don't have to be special. That's okay to just be a normal watchmaker. "
"What if I told you that I can be special? "
"You were right, Mom. I am meant to be special, just like you wanted."
Episode: Five Years Gone "You are like me. special. Why do you want to hurt other special people?"
"I made everyone aware of us. Fear is just the natural response. You can't blame them, really. We're more powerful than they are. More important. We're special."
"Who are you to decide who's special and who's not?"
"For all I know, I'm the most special person there is. (Something about him makes Claire afraid.) Lord knows I found enough power. Met a lot of special people."
Episode: Parasite "Candice is special, just like you."
Episode: Run! "Charlie was special"
"I'm just a regular guy. I mean ... I've never been different or--or special"
Episode: Distractions "I'm special. Just like Claire."
Episode: The Fix "No teaching. No Sunday school for the special. What I can do, you can't learn. You wake up in the morning, it's there. "
"Because I’m special."
"I am very special. I offer myself in trade. Release un-special Ando and I go with you. Okay? "
Episode: Godsend "(Eden) cared about you more than she should've. She was ... special."
"I guess that's what makes me special."
"We're quite alike, you know. You collect special people. So do I."
Episode: Six Months Ago "And I wanted to be different. special."
"You may not have a special ability."
Episode: Homecoming "You know, between you and me, she's not that special. Just your average teenage girl.
She rushed into a fire and saved a man's life, sounds kinda special to me."
Episode: Seven Minutes to Midnight "From the moment she was born, he was convinced that she was special."
"Because she's special. Like you. And that makes her a target."
"You're not the only one with special abilities,"
Episode: Nothing to Hide "I told you to drop all this "I'm special" crap."
"Pretty special family. (chuckles) You have no idea."
Episode: Better Halves "Claire is a very special girl. Do you understand me?"
"Well, I hope they're not. No offense, but I like -- I like that you're the freak. It makes you more ... special or whatever."
Episode: Genesis " Some individuals, it is true, are more special. This is natural selection. It begins as a single individual born or hatched like every other member of their species. Anonymous. Seemingly ordinary. Except they're not"

Examples from the Transcripts of Episodes, Graphic Novels, and Webisodes that refer to powered-people as evolved:


Episode: Kindred "Some say it's a gift from God. Some people think it's evolution."
"What is that? Evolution? It means you can heal from any wound."
Episode: Lizards " I've read that some people might have evolved a different code already. Is that possible?"
"I just found this book. It's by some Indian guy. I can barely even pronounce his name. It's about everything you're talking about--people who've evolved."
Episode: Four Months Later... "It's a disease which threatens to eradicate them all. And in doing so, deprives our species of its evolutionary advancement."
Episode: .07%
"I'm a natural progression of the species. Evolution is a part of nature, and nature kills. Simple, right? What you've done is not evolution, it's murder. "
Episode: Unexpected "Charles Darwin bred pigeons when he was working out his theory of evolution. Married up various permutations to get maximum potential."
Episode: Six Months Ago "I have a theory about human evolution. And I believe you ... are a part of it."
"You use a phrase in your book ... evolutionary imperative."
"Don't worry, Brian, I can fix it. It's an evolutionary imperative."
Episode: Collision "My father always talked about how an entire species will go extinct while others, no more unique or complex, will change and adapt in extraordinary ways. He had a romantic take on evolution."
Episode: One Giant Leap "When evolution selects its agents, it does so at a cost."
Episode: Genesis "But we are not the pinnacle of so-called evolution. That honor belongs to the lowly cockroach...is man entering a new gateway to evolution? "

Discuss appropriate naming convention

Overwhelmingly, all sources for the show use special rather than evolved throughout the canon and near-cannon. Most evolved uses also, are referring to evolution as a process, not as an identifyer of the people. I think the wiki should align to this majority, and refer to them as 'special' (which is explicitly used), as opposed to 'evolved humans' (which is never explicitly used). --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 12/16/2008 11:02 (EST)

  • Also, in The Recruit, Part 1 the opening sentences directly refer to them as 'specials'.--Elemental Manipulator [ U | T | C ] - When in doubt, ask BTE 03:15, 17 December 2008 (EST)
    • They've also been called posthumans and freaks. "Evolved human" is used pretty heavily in the assignment tracker map. It seems like any of those terms would do. I say leave good enough alone. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 10:08, 17 December 2008 (EST)
      • I'm sure there are various synonomyms. Freak is a term Claire uses a handful of times about herself, but not widespreadly used to the group in general. Posthuman likewise, is a grouping term for specials, but has only been used once, maybe twice. (I can't even find it in the transcripts of s1-s2 and the gns we've transcribed so far. My point in bring this up for discussion, is that 'specials' is used as a grouping term in a much larger way, spanning many multiple GNs and episodes from all three seasons. Far more than any other grouping term, it has been the most common; and therefore worth looking into. The assignment tracker is a relatively knew tool that has emerged this season; and still yet, they are using the term 'special' bountifully throughout this season 3, just as they did in seasons 1 and 2. Thanks User:Elemental Manipulator for mentioning The Recruit, Part 1...their use of 'specials' jumped out at me too when watching it yesterday.--HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 12/17/2008 10:17 (EST)
  • I would say defiantly no to "special humans". "Specials" is a possibility, but I think "evolved humans" is just fine. -Lөvөl 12:10, 18 December 2008 (EST)
    • Yeah "special humans" seems weird. "evoloved humans" however, just seems natural because that's the term the wiki has always used, and we've gotten used to it. The actual phrase "evolved human" (I don't think) has ever been used in canon or near-canon. "Specials" has been used in both canon and near-canon alot; thus my reason for bringing up the discussion. If we want to be more aligned with the canon and near-canon references, "specials" is more appropriate than "evolved humans". --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 12/18/2008 12:49 (EST)
      • "Special" means that they could have anything from a power to Down Syndrome. It's not specific enough, even though most uses mean "people who have powers". We know that they're humans, and evolution has been refered to multiple times as the source of the powers, so calling them Evolved Humans is just logical. --Piemanmoo 21:54, 21 December 2008 (EST)
        • It is logical, it is very logical; but it rarely used within the heroes universe; and "specials" and its variation is used a multitude of times throughout all of the heroes universe and all seasons. EH makes good sense, because it is descriptive and it is what we've used from the beginning, so we're used to the term. However, just from what has been overwhelmingly used within the show, GNS, and 360 material, 'specials' is by far, the most referred to way of identifying people with abilities. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 12/23/2008 11:50 (EST)
          • Other terms have been used just as explicitly, most notably "posthuman". I don't see any reason to prefer "specials" above other terms that are used. Frequency of use doesn't necessarily equate validity of term. In fact, I think the term "special" is quite loaded and has a connotation that does not necessarily apply. In the end, the show uses numerous terms for concept of a person with abilities, and they all co-exist in the world of Heroes. So should it be with our site--multiple names are fine and can be used interchangeably. I see nothing wrong with using "evolved humans" in the title of this article. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:29, 23 December 2008 (EST)
            • I can let this go, not that big a deal. What made me inclined to research it and bring it up, is solely because of the volume. Posthuman has been used what, once, twice maybe? "Evolved human" none...it is an implied term in about 7 or 8 unspecific references. Special however, has been used close to 4 dozen times. I just felt the weight of the useage towards special has grown so much larger than any other 'onscreen/gn/webisode' reference, that it was worth discussing. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 12/23/2008 13:55 (EST)
              • From another perspective, in near-canon sources, "evolved humans" is used 29 times on the assignment tracker map and once in Evs Dropper's messages, "posthuman" is used twice on the map and thrice in messages, and "specials" is not used on the map and once in messages. "Evolved human" is used twice in Bridget's messages, and it's implied that it's a term used by Chandra himself. Ultimately, I think we just need to use multiple terms on the site. Creating a redirect for specials was a good idea. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:41, 24 December 2008 (EST)
                • Also, the above list of the word "special" being used only has two examples of the word being used as a noun. A graphic novel says, "tracking specials around the world," and a webisode says, "These 'specials' pose a threat to society." (Both are introductions, which is another murky area, but for the sake of the argument, we'll just say that they were in the source proper.) Most of the other "special" references refer to abilities (which really are special--they're very unusual) or to people (for instance, Claire calls Zach special). I guess what I'm getting at here is that doing a search for "special" in transcripted material will yield a much higher search result since the word "special" is a very common word. But seeing the word used as a noun to mean "people with abilities" is just about as rare as finding the term "evolved human" or "posthuman". -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:53, 24 December 2008 (EST)

An attempt to clear up ability overlap.

Teleportation versus Space-time manipulation, Super speed versus Santiago's ability versus Edward's ability, etc. Overlaps are going to get worse, and it's better to figure out how to deal with it now rather than later. Perhaps something of this nature would work:

As it is, for abilities, we list Confirmed, Unconfirmed, and Future. Perhaps we should add "Other examples" or "Similar powers" or something of that nature. In some cases, it's only going to add links from some pages to others, but in some instances it would actually be important. For instance, Daphne does not have Space-time manipulation, but amplified, she can travel through time. Hiro has space-time manipulation, but an aspect of that, explicitly, is teleportation. Thoughts? --Ricard Desi (t,c) 23:44, 22 December 2008 (EST)

  • I second the "similar powers" concept. - Tristan0709 talk 23:56, 22 December 2008 (EST)
    • We don't need a "similar abilities" section. Similar abilities are not the same abilities. This would also lead to very speculative posts (as it already has) about how powers work. I believe similar powers are already in the Notes sections of articles about abilities. I think that's probably enough. Anything else would actually muck up the overlap and confuse things more, I'm afraid. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:53, 23 December 2008 (EST)
    • I agree. What I meant was, if we were forced to choose one of those options, I would go for simliar abilities. I think that with amplification around, we may see all abilities do strange things. Also, should people on this list be included if they have lost their abilities? -- Tristan0709 talk 01:54, 23 December 2008 (EST)
      • I think it's okay to list them. Maya is still an evolved human, which is what this page lists. I think we just need to make her ability field say "Poison emission (lost)". -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:10, 23 December 2008 (EST)

Shouldn't we?

is there a page spesificaly on evolved humans? if not, why cant there be? we still havent seen the connection from the brain to the adrenelian or how the set abilities are limeted by logical and phisical limits. we know of things like if and ability is mental, elemental, phisical or temproall/spatal, but not the limitation. we need to have soemthing more to describe evolved humans.

We need an article and not a list.

This really serves more as a list than it does an article on explaining Evolve Humans. There's a lot of information about them such as abilities being passed on, activation by the eclipse, history of them (Abu's ancestors) showing how long they have been around, the different categories their abilities fall under, rights, movements, etc. It would defiantly take some work, but we need it, because right now this is only a list of Evolve Humans and nowhere does it explain them the depth that this topic deserves. --OutbackZack 13:22, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

If you want an article about evolved humans make one. The list should not be changed in favor of your idea. --Snow Leapord 15:39, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

  • I never said change the list. I said have an article. That way anytime you click on Evolved Human it takes you to an article that better explains what one is instead of giving you a list. The list is a separate article in itself. Nowhere did I say change the list. --OutbackZack 16:38, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Bump. Anyone want to help me to create this page? I guess we would make it a sub user page before we would publish it onto the main site. --OutbackZack 10:28, 9 December 2009 (EST)
      • What would you like to write there? I can only think about something like "humans who develop special abilities are called evolved humans". AltesUTC CH 03:52, 10 December 2009 (EST)
        • There's a lot of things that we can cover. Here's what comes off the top of my head; the history of evolved humans (from the earliest known to their place in society), how abilities are passed down, the four main types of abilities, organizations that deal and have dealt with them, how their abilities were activated (the eclipse), and the list just goes on. --OutbackZack 05:38, 10 December 2009 (EST)
          • Half of these should go to the abilities article, if one is to be made. AltesUTC CH
            • Yeah, we could use an ability page also. Then have a summary of the ability page on the evolved human page. I'm sure if we started to work on a page we'll think of information to put on it. After all, we do have a page about the Barbie doll and licence plate numbers haha. --OutbackZack 05:56, 10 December 2009 (EST)

iStory sources

I noticed that there is an inconsistency on how iStories are used as sources in this list. Some characters just have iStory as a source, some have a determined iStory, such as The Civilian or Faction Zero, and some have it right down to the chapter, such as The Civilian, chapter 503. Could we sort this out? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:55, 3 September 2009 (EDT)

Dennis

I know there was no demonstrated ability, but he was an evolved human, shouldn't he be still listed? We've listed people without knowing what their abilities were, haven't we? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:55, 3 September 2009 (EDT)

  • Dennis is categorized as a human, as he should be. He has never demonstrated ability, has never been referred to as being an evolved human, and we have no concrete reason to believe that he has a power. The only two things that would lead one to believe he has an ability are his large pupils and the fact that he spent time in Level 5. Neither one of those is confirmation of being an evolved human; both characteristics have been associated with humans in other cases. See Talk:Dennis. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:14, 3 September 2009 (EDT)

evo

How are we formatting the word "evo"? Are there any written examples of it being in all caps (EVO), or having just a first letter capitalized (Evo), or do we just see it as all lowercase (evo)? The only things I'm seeing is "EVO ABILITY" on the evo card, but the whole card is written in caps, so that's not a good indicator. Anybody find any other examples of how it's written? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:33, 3 August 2015 (EDT)

  • Okay, I found this. It says "At least 36 killed in alleged Evo-Supremicist attack". The word "Evo" is not in all caps, but just the first letter is capitalized. So I suppose the word can be written either with no caps or the first letter capitalized. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:47, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
    • I've always just thought of it as short for "evolved human", and so having it all lowercase seemed natural to me. --Radicell (talk) 18:34, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
  • I say wait to see how it is used on the show. Sounds to me like slur in the same vein as the n word. --Snow Leapord (talk) 18:39, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
    • Quentin uses it positively. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:32, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
      • The N word is used positively by African-Americans especially rappers. The N word is still a racial slur. Just because one person uses it positively doesn't change anything. --Snow Leapord (talk) 19:40, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
        • I don't think the two words are analogous. It seems like a forced comparison. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:12, 3 August 2015 (EDT)
          • Which is why I said WAIT to we see how it is used on the show. Anything else is speculation, and any insistence on discussing the word I am going to take the side of evo = N word. --Snow Leapord (talk) 20:15, 3 August 2015 (EDT)

Missing Persons at Odessa Summit

There is a Howard Kiddwell (possibly, hard to tell last name), Stuart last name ends in eldern, & most definitely Susan Erikston. All of three of them are on the missing persons board for Evos. None of those are listed I understand why the first two are not listed but is there a reason why Susan is not? --Snow Leapord (talk) 14:06, 1 June 2017 (EDT)