This wiki is a XML full dump clone of "Heroes Wiki", the main wiki about the Heroes saga that has been shut down permanently since June 1, 2020. The purpose of this wiki is to keep online an exhaustive and accurate database about the franchise.

Talk:Shifting: Difference between revisions

From Heroes Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
imported>HiroDynoSlayer
(→‎Concensus discussion: the V-Twins ability)
imported>Daevon
(physical collectivity)
Line 55: Line 55:


<u>Physical collectivity</u><br />
<u>Physical collectivity</u><br />
* Best name here, scientific and self explanatory. [[User:Daevon|Daevon]] 17:44, 16 June 2009 (EDT)


<u>Shifting</u><br />
<u>Shifting</u><br />

Revision as of 16:44, 16 June 2009

Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources Episodes
Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine shifting's name.
Source/Explanation
Anna notes that everything shifts for her when Valerie uses her ability on her (Chapter 10 of The Agent).

Name

As much as I hate so and so's ability this is the only name I could come up with in light of the new IStory. I really need suggestions, so please start discussing :) --posted by Laughingdevilboy Talk 15:33, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Body insertion?--IotV 15:57, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
    • I haven't finished page so I haven't added the other example, which I will do now, which unfortunately (though very good idea) discounts that ability (My fault entirely). --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 16:00, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

      • I think the name of their ability should be "shifting", however I think Radicell was confused and changed the body sharing man and woman to Valerie and Victor, when they are a separate couple. Don't confuse the sharing ability with them.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:41, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
        • What do you mean Miami? and I did think of 'shifting' and also 'Sharing' but wasn't sure if they fitted into the conventions of naming abilities. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 16:45, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

          • The body sharing couple can walk through each other. Valerie and Victor (the twins) can shift items to each other. They are separate couples with separate abilities. Linda didn't want to leave at the end of Ch 9 because Valerie and Victor had yet to arrive. Twin shifting is probably a more accurate name.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:48, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
            • I made the same mistake lol, I will undo my edits immediately. Sorry about that, oh and your suggestion is great! :) --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 16:50, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

              • No problem. It is confusing and I'm not certain about it, myself. In chapter 9, Linda says, "We can't go until the twin is safe" so I assume that means Valerie and Victor are not there at that point. However, in chapter 10, Linda thumbs towards the pretend-Siamese twins and then introduces Anna to the twin, Valerie, and her maybe-brother, maybe-ghost Victor, which can be taken to mean that Victor and Valerie are new people that suddenly appear in front of the body-sharing couple (since they are ghost-like), or that Valerie and Victor are the body sharing couple.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:25, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
            • Wait wait, what? From what I read, it seemed like they were the same couple. The body sharing couple were pretending to be Siamese twins in chapter 9 ("stuck together from the shoulder to hip" was how they phrased it), and Anna called Victor and Valerie pretend-Siamese twins in chapter 10. They also never say anything about Valerie and Victor arriving so it reads like they were always there. It's not explicit, but I just don't get how they're different couples.--BardinessBoy 17:23, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
              • No, read closely. Anna never calls Victor and Valerie the pretend-Siamese twins. It's just that Linda thumbs towards them before introducing the twins.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:27, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
                • Well until we know for certain we should keep them separate. On another note I reverted the edits I did and some that others had done in regards to this matter. Now back on to ability name... --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 17:39, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

                  • Right, if Valerie passes through Victor in the next chapter, then we'll know they are one and the same.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:45, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
                    • I have re-read the page Anna lists who is there and she does in fact say the pretend Siamese twins, here is the quote "She jerks a thumb at the pretend-Siamese-twins. "The Twin. Valerie. And her maybe-brother, maybe-ghost Victor. V + V, get it?"" She also lists who is there and never mentioned two sets of couples. However Miami you were right Linda does say and I quote "We can't go until the twin is safe". So I am still confused. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 18:00, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

                      • I skipped this entire talk, and I don't know if someone suggested this already, but what about the names V&V were known as? Body sharing sounds like a good name for the ability. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:10, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
                        • IE, that is body-sharing woman and man's possible ability, we haven't decided if these are the same people yet. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 18:50, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

                          • Whoever has the ability, I'm just saying that body sharing is a good name. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:05, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
                            • Sorry I hope didn't mean to sound to blunt before. I think your suggestion is a good one :) --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 19:07, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

                              • I didn't think you were blunt, I'm just a bit out of the loop cause I thought they were the same people. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:58, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
  • What about transportation, they seem to be able to transport things between each other. What does people think? --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 11:28, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

    • I too was wondering if this was the mysterious transportation ability. --Crazylicious 11:33, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
      • I don't think we know enough about the power of "transportation" to say that that's the ability Valerie and Victor share. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:20, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
        • Yeah I think you may be right, I did have a think and we know they teleport people and objects could this not be just a different aspect of teleportation? But instead of teleporting themselves they can teleport other things. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 15:36, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

          • Right, that's what they do... the twins can teleport things to each other by touching them. I like 'twin shifting' because it takes into account the nature of the ability that the ability takes advantage of their special twin connection and uses the term provided in the story--that everything 'shifted' for Anna. As far as transportation is concerned, I was thinking it might be some extended form of levitation that allows the holder to create and use flying carpets and stuff...just my theory. :)--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:51, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

Talk 15:36, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

              • I wouldn't include the word "twin". There's no evidence that the people who have this ability must be twins. If we use the description that things shifted for Anna, then I think just "shifting" would be a good ability name. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:08, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
                • Just 'shifting' is fine, then. You're right that it's only implied and not confirmed that the ability works that way because they are twins. I guess if Peter absorbed it, he could send things to Nathan...--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:38, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

Talk 16:40, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

                    • Since there's only one valid/acceptable name, I think we can just change it. It's a descriptive name, but it's based a near canon source so it will be level 2 in the power names template.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:43, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

Consensus check

To properly make sure that this power's name is valid, we'll hold a little consensus check. Technically, "shifting" referred to Anna's perception of what happened, so I can understand some possible opposition. However, I personally think the name is very fitting for the ability, and it's a heck of a lot better than "Valerie and Victor's ability". And reading through the discussions above, unless I'm mistaken, every other name has been opposed. So we'll do it like this: if anybody opposes the name "shifting" for this ability name, please voice your opinion below. I'll also note that the first reasonable objection will revert the name of this ability back to "Valerie and Victor's ability". -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:01, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Object displacement (Sebastian Shell, Valerie, Victor): The ability to displace objects with one's own hands. -- Mike the Man-child!
    • Displacement means to move an object from it's normal position... also, Sebastian Shell's ability name is pretty much set by the assignment tracker map, so it's not changing. Because the ability name is applied to a person already, yet not described, it needs to be explicitly stated that they share the same ability for us to use that term.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:19, 20 April 2009 (EDT)
  • I like any name other than "Shifting". I can understand why its named that but it just sounds weird. I hear "shifting" and i think of shape or age shifting. "Object displacement" or "transportation" sounds good to me. --Peter 19:58, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
  • Aportation might be better. "Shifting" is so vague as to be little better than (Name)'s Ability. - Hive 22:37, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
    • I don't have any issues with "shifting". To me, it describes the ability just fine, and I like that it uses Anna's quote. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:07, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
      • When I first saw "shifting" on the recent changes page, I had absolutely no idea what it was. I suppose my first guess would've been a redirect to shape shifting. - Hive 18:58, 18 May 2009 (EDT)

New consensus

  • We have new information about Victor and Valerie's ability from Interview:iStory follow up. It's no longer just moving people around, but also now includes the ability to phase through each other and merge into one person. I am not opposed to keeping the name "shifting" (which is a descriptive name), but I can understand the objection that it no longer completely describes their ability.

In the interview, Tom says "Victor is sort of Valerie's parasitic twin ... taken up a couple levels. Being "phased-together" might even be considered their natural state. Another way to consider it: they can act as one person in terms of their interaction with the physical world. Their phasing ability and item-swapping ability are really the same thing."

I think their "acting as one person" is in essence the core of their ability, as the teleportation aspect is described as "whatever one has, the other can have", and the phasing aspect lets them physically become one person. So the way I see it, they form a physical collective. Whereas the Borg (Star Trek ref) have a mental collective that can share thoughts, Victor and Valerie form a physical collective that can share actions and body (Victor and Valerie are seen moving as one person). Thus, my recommendation for a descriptive name for their ability is "physical collectivity".

If you have other suggestions, you can add them below. Please only add objections below with reasons for your opposition. Objections that are not sustained will be ignored. If there is more than one name remaining, a vote will be held to decide the name.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:02, 24 May 2009 (EDT)

Object displacement

  • Opposed, a character is already known to have this ability (Sebastian Shell), and there's no "acting as one" and "parasitic relation", which is the main aspect of the ability, the known thing about the ability in Shell's case is to displace objects. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 13:22, 24 May 2009 (EDT)
    • Well Valerie and Victor could also displace objects, so Sebastian Shell may just need practice. -- Mike the Man-child!
      • V&V could only displace objects to each other, as far as we know, Sebastian doesn't have that limitation. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:50, 25 May 2009 (EDT)
        • The fact that they're twins, may be the reason why (Sebastian may have displaced objects, through and to his partner.) -- Mike the Man-child!
          • The ability as we know can only be used to send objects to another person, we can't say it's the same as Sebastian's based on a speculation he might have a partner he can work the ability with, something that is highly speculative. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:52, 25 May 2009 (EDT)

Physical collectivity

  • Best name here, scientific and self explanatory. Daevon 17:44, 16 June 2009 (EDT)

Shifting

  • Dictionary-wise this name makes sense, but illusion and age shifting use the word 'shifting' in the sense of altering, ex: "Age shifting, the ability to alter one's own age". To me it just sounds out of place.

Sharing

  • Does only imply the object part, not that they are 1 person, which is the core of this ability --Carl Jung 13:15, 25 May 2009 (EDT)

Quantum Entanglement

Physical connectivity

  • Opposed, would account for the body sharing thing, but it would be a bit of a stretch to put the object sending aspect of it. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 14:40, 14 June 2009 (EDT)

Concensus discussion

Please continue general discussion here, and only list objections above. Thanks.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:02, 24 May 2009 (EDT)

  • I'm fine with keeping this "shifting", and I'm not opposed to any of the names listed above. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:50, 25 May 2009 (EDT)
    • Since it has been a few days since last comment I think this should be changed. If no one objects I will do so tomorrow. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 18:54, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

Talk 19:22, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

          • It's been named clear (don't remember in which talk page though) that number lack of oppositions isn't the only thing to be considered, if there are good counter arguments to oppositions, they can still count, and while I don't oppose physical collectivity, I think sharing is a better name. More discussion is needed. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:42, 12 June 2009 (EDT)
            • I dont object to physical collectivity or sharing, i think that physical collectivity is just a more scientific term for sharing. But the name should be changed, I never liked Shifting. Daevon 03:10, 13 June 2009 (EDT)

Talk 06:48, 13 June 2009 (EDT) - I think the best name would be Transportation collectivity, the ability to transport objects from one place to the other twin place. --Dfvi 21:36, 14 June 2009 (EDT)

    • Transportation collectivity would only account for the transporting things part of the ability, not the connecting of the bodies. Daevon 14:42, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

- And Transportation and Body Sharing xd or Transportation body collectivity??? or Transportation Body connection--Dfvi 18:22, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

  • There are better names. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:24, 15 June 2009 (EDT)
    • "The V-Twins Ability!!!!" (just kidding...or drowning in a summer of so little new Heroes stuff..new GN's out again tomorrow I hope, what about the next iStory?). --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 06/15/2009 21:58 (EST)