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Talk:Takezo Kensei

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Jan/Aug 2007 Formal Name · Deceased? · Birthdate · Spelling Again · Kensei = Kaito · David Anders to play Takezo Kensei · Kensei is the "lone rider" regardless of who the actor is

Character?

Should he be in the character categories? ---- Ohmyn0.jpgOhmyn0talk.jpg 19:08, 24 January 2007 (EST)

I don't think so. Heroe 19:19, 24 January 2007 (EST)

I put him in the character category because he's the original owner of the sword. Afterall, he is (was) a person. I think he's also a reference, since he's a figure from history. I'd keep him as both. As for the portals, I don't really care how that's taken care of. Personally, I think it should be in both. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:13, 24 January 2007 (EST)
I agree. Mr. Petrelli's a character and he's dead, too. Ditto Shanti Suresh. They're people who are important to the story.--Hardvice (talk) 22:43, 24 January 2007 (EST)
However, I disagree. This guy is more of a legend than someone who could directly influence the story, other than his sword. ---- Ohmyn0.jpgOhmyn0talk.jpg 00:09, 25 January 2007 (EST)
...so far.--Hardvice (talk) 00:13, 25 January 2007 (EST)
Really, the only differences between Takezo and the others Hardvice listed are that Takezo is much older, and that he's a figure from history. However, I don't think age should matter, and we're not even sure he's really a real person. He's may be Miyamoto Musashi, but even historians can't be sure. (In fact, maybe that's why the writers chose him, so they can be ambiguous about the character's past.) I say that the original owner of a major plot point like the sword is definitely a character - especially in a show where time travel is possible. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:21, 25 January 2007 (EST)
  • To bring this subject "current": As of Season 2, Kensei is currently a character and is in the Character categories.--NissanVersaDootDoot 17:09, 3 October 2007 (EDT)


Not really a reference....

I'm not sure how this can be a reference article, since Takezo never existed in the real world and he's more of a character starting in season two. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 22:51, 28 August 2007 (EDT)

  • I partly agree. When season two begins, we should probably move this article to the character box and have a seperate reference article on Miyamoto Musashi and the differences between the real and fictional Kensei's. Until then, this is both a Heroes 360 and an episode reference.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:15, 28 August 2007 (EDT)
    • I agree, Heroe, this article isn't really a reference. We categorized it as such because "Kensei" is really a term that just means "sword saint", and because there was the possibility of him being (or representing) Miyamoto Musashi. I don't think we should have an article on Miyamoto Musashi, though, since he really is never referenced. If anything, the Musashi connection should remain a note on this page, and we should just drop the reference cat. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:43, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
      • Perhaps putting the differences in a history vs. myth theme page would be better, then, especially since it's been hinted we are going to be exploring legends not just from Japan.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:55, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
        • I don't think we need a full comparison of the differences between Kensei and Musashi. The basic differences can be discussed in the Notes. If Musashi is mentioned anywhere in the Heroes universe, then fine, a reference page could be made. But I'd much rather see any discussion of Musashi confined to a Notes section. When a legend comes up, we can deal with it individually. And in this particular case, the connection between Kensei and Musashi is weak at best, and is nonexistent in the Heroes realm. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:13, 29 August 2007 (EDT)

Sooooo, can Kensai be removed from the references portal?--SacValleyDweller 15:43, 31 August 2007 (EDT)

  • Thanks for the reminder. I'll take care of it now. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:52, 31 August 2007 (EDT)
  • I think it's awesome that we had a discussion that this article was a reference article and not a character article, and now we've had a discussion that this article is a character article and not a reference article. Just goes to show how the creators end up keeping us on our toes.--Hardvice (talk) 02:49, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

As for Takezo...

I think any reference to him that involves Kaito and Hiro's stories should have some mention of "the legend" or something to that effect. As we watch Kensei's story unravel, we're noticing things aren't what the story told - The Princess seems to despise Kensei. My first suggestion would be, on the Princess Page, add "according to legend" right after "Takezo gives his life for the princess."--Riddler 22:48, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

  • ???--Riddler 17:47, 25 September 2007 (EDT)
    • Agreed. I'm making an effort to describe events as they are shown in the episodes, then noting the legends as such in an effort to note the discrepancies between the legend and how things now happen (e.g. The Battle of 12 Swords in Sword Saint is pictured as a bloodbath, but in Lizards it's Hiro's trickery that wins it.) To be clear, I'm doing this carefully because there's some possibility that they could reveal Hiro being there has caused a Rift and the legends describe how these events occurred before Hiro popped in.--NissanVersaDootDoot 18:04, 3 October 2007 (EDT)
      • That's a solid approach. And how cool would it be if, after the story plays out, the videos on yamagatofellowship.org are changed to reflect the "new" history?--Hardvice (talk) 18:17, 3 October 2007 (EDT)

Regeneration, huh?

Never thought Kensei would have it...thoughts?--DarkPhoenix 22:02, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Guess he made it through his suicide! XD --AvadaNella 22:03, 1 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Ugh...couldn't they have given him somthing different? West has the same power as Nathan and now Kensei has the same power as Claire. Come on, experiment people!--The Empath 22:05, 1 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Sure, Kensei, the man with the power of...*thinks* Hell, give him cell regeneration, say he's Claire's ancestor or something (just a theory, imagine if it was true XD), and call it a day.--DarkPhoenix 22:06, 1 October 2007 (EDT)
      • They talk about their decision to duplicate powers in an interview here if you're interested. I think we'll be seeing quite a bit of duplication, but also quite a bit of new ones as well. (Admin 22:07, 1 October 2007 (EDT))
        • My first thought was "he is a younger Linderman" --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/1/2007 22:10 (EST)
        • I think it's pretty interesting that they're introducing very different kinds of people with similar or the same abilities, and really, it would be more of a stretch if we didn't start to see some of them recur. After all, Chandra was able to research whole classes of powers he was able to identify as potential abilities by analyzing genetic data. It would be pretty odd if most of the abilities he identified were only held by one person, and they all were somehow connected to the story. Instead, two of the abilities he mentions specifically in his book have now turned up on multiple users. Kind of makes sense. There are probably more common abilities and more scarce abilities, just like other traits.--Hardvice (talk) 23:31, 1 October 2007 (EDT)
          • It might not be the same as Claire's, however. One possibility is that every time Kensei dies, he takes on another personality: one life as a drunken mercenary, one life as a hero, one life as a life as a lawyer, one life as a killer. It would make life very interesting for our Heroes, wouldn't it, to find that the monster they will know as Kane was a hero once and may be once again? One could even extend it one random leap furthur and claim that Kensei and Kane are both "Austin" Petrelli, who comitted suicide after learning about his wife's infidelity with Keito, only to rise again as Kane and seek revenge. That's... a bit of a stretch, is it? --Calemyr
            • I sure think it is. Almost as far fethed as the "bits of Peter" or the "Waffles" theories. :P--NissanVersaDootDoot 18:08, 3 October 2007 (EDT)
  • "Makes" it through his suicide. Lets see if Kensei marries the Princess or if Hiro steals the girl. (Doubt it, since he was too honorable to kiss her while he had time frozen!)--NissanVersaDootDoot 18:08, 3 October 2007 (EDT)

Isn't Kensai immortal?

I know it's a spoiler but was it Kensai or someone else? I forgot/ Jason Garrick 23:00, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

  • it was supposedly Kane, but now I'm not so sure.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:25, 1 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Well, it was revealed today that Claire could regrow her appendages, and, in Five Years Past, she survived the bomb, so im guessing, like Claire, Kensei is "immortal." Dean Harper 01:08, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Maybe, but not necessarily. Regeneration isn't the same thing as not aging.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:15, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
  • I think that it will come out in future episodes that he is immortal. When I saw that episode I thought that he had to die in order for his power to kick in, while Claire doesn't have to do that with her power. --Pinkkeith 10:56, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Think we very well might find out in a future episode that both Clare and Kensai is immortal. However, Clare hasn't been around that long. --Xmuskrat 11:30, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
      • He dies with two arrows still stuck in him, and returns back to life. Hiro removes one arrow - and Kensei is still alive when he does so. I think that's a major difference between Claire's and Kensei's regeneration patterns. Kensei might just... not be able to die. He can still get injured and stuff, but if he dies, he returns to life with no injuries. --DocM 17:30, 3 October 2007 (EDT)
        • The other possibility is that the arrow was in his heart, and the heart works the same way as the brain (see: Claire and the stump). Should be interesting to watch the differences or similarities in their powers play out.--Hardvice (talk) 17:37, 3 October 2007 (EDT)
          • People with regenerative healing factors should age much, much slower than a normal human being. The obvious example is Wolverine.--Matt 2108 01:09, 4 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Makes me excited for the scene when Kensei cuts out his heart. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:06, 4 October 2007 (EDT)
            • This is just how Claire works when she is "killed." She has a branch sticking out of her head, and when the coroner removes it, she comes back to life. Hiro removed the arrow, and Kensei healed up. Of course, you might be wondering why it took so long for him to revive if he actually does have rapid cell regeneration, and not just immortality. This is easily answered by looking at Claire later in Lizards. She cuts off her toe and it takes a few seconds for it to start regrowing. This is evidence enough for me to suggest that they both have the same power. Puls, the producers stated that there would be "circles of heroes with the same powers." I'm thinking that Kensei is Claire's anscestor or something, or maybe one of the other Heroes'. Dean Harper 22:23, 5 October 2007 (EDT)

Barbarian in Japan

Consider hiro's quote when he says (paraphrasing) "My dad told me about Kenzei. He was a savage warrior." I found the Original Wikipedia's article on [[1]] in 16th & 17th Century Japan very interesting. They called them nanbans, which literally means "Barbarians from the South" or "Savages from the south." Was this intentional foreshadowing? Did they tell us last season that Kensei was a nanban? --NissanVersaDootDoot 17:14, 3 October 2007 (EDT)

Back to Life-Speculative

he Lizards section writeup says, "Hiro is shocked to see Kensei's wound heal right before his eyes, and is even more surprised to see Kensei come back to life." It is confirmed that his wounds healed right before Hiro's eyes. However, I believe it is speculative to assume that he was dead after just immediately being shot with arrows. He very likely was near dead, and it is even possible in the realm of conjecture, that he wasn't even mortally wounded but only severally wounded and uncounscious. Saying he was 'dead' and came back to life is very speculative, and I am going to take off that last phrase. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/5/2007 12:19 (EST)

  • IMO, good call. I thought it was speculative when I read it, but didn't want to remove speculation based on my own conjecture. ;)--NissanVersaDootDoot 12:25, 5 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I've learned enough from watching Ryan's keen eye over the last year, to know when something is remotely speculative, it probably gets punted...things like that which are highly speculative now seem to stick out like a sore thumb (or pinky toe). Always feel comfortable removing overt speculation, and if you want to start a talk-discussion on it just to be sure, that is also always a good idea. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/5/2007 12:28 (EST)

Not sure how we're getting this

"With Kensei manifesting rapid cellular regeneration in 1671, he becomes the oldest known evolved human. (Lizards)"

  • What does rcr have to do with his age? Are we claiming he's old because of the DOB listed at the museum (which could be, y'know, totally wrong, like much that's "known" about the Kensei story)?
  • Or are we meaning to claim that he's the earliest known evolved human? That's not the same thing as oldest. When we say an object is "the oldest arrowhead found", that's because the object is the oldest--it still exists. But when we want to identify a person as coming from the earliest part of history, we have to say "earliest" because "oldest" is a statement of their age, and we don't know how old they were when they died. Their remains could be the oldest because the remains still exist.--Hardvice (talk) 13:27, 5 October 2007 (EDT)
    • And incidentally, the note on the journal female's page really was about her age, not about when she became an evolved human. She'd be 123 if still living, and that's pretty darned old.--Hardvice (talk) 13:33, 5 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Right. The journal note could probably be reworded to be more clear, but they're two different things. However, I have a feeling that since David Anders was originally cast as the 1000-year-old Kane, he will be both the earliest-known and the oldest evolved human. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:43, 5 October 2007 (EDT)
        • I think that Kane and Kensai are the same person. I still think Kensai is immortal and when Hiro returns to the future he meets KEnsai but this time as Kane. Jason Garrick 15:26, 6 October 2007 (EDT)
    • When I originally changed it, my intent was that Kensei/Kane whomever you want to call him, has become the earliest (better than oldest) known evolved human, having manifested a power in 1671. Time jumpers like Hero don't count. Unless Kensei/Kane ends up being a time-jumper too, then he is the first EH chronologically we know about. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/6/2007 15:32 (EST)

Hiro was touched...

Based on the theories around Takezo in the future (present), many of which are centred around immortality, maybe he just grabbed Hiro when he went back to the future (present). This would make him ~400 years old he just hasn't lived them. I am assuming Hiro does go back of course. Seeing as anything Hiro touches can go with him this seems possible. Also another thought, maybe Hiro was distracted by it and mis-fired by like 20/30 years, rendering them in the same period as the earlier generation of evolved humans. Hiro may have had to dash off quickly, possibly becuase he saw himself, leaving Takezo there, to become part of the twelve. Maybe this is why Kaito has good sword skills, Takezo taught him. I know this creates some type of time paradox loop thing but the touching part is okay. --SomeoneImportant 11:42, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Put it in the theory page. It sounds about right.--Bob 11:57, 8 October 2007 (EDT)
  • I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case as well especially if it turns out his power is just like Claire's. I personally dont think rapid cell regeneration = immortality so that would explain how he could be "1000 years old"... guess we'll find out soon enough! :) (Admin 12:00, 8 October 2007 (EDT))
  • I've just realised I had put 1000 years old, I got confused with one of the spoilers about Kane and the Kane/Kensei theories. Changed to ~400, although you never know he could have been around already for 600. Im not gonna put this in the theories becuase the theory of Takezo travelling with Hiro is already there, in short. My theory would just be a theory of a theory. --SomeoneImportant 12:42, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

Carp?

Move to Adam Monroe

So, we have two options: merge or move. I'd prefer merging, and having Kensei's legend separated somehow. If we decide to keep Kensei's article, we have to move a lot of the history on this page, but we should keep some info regarding Kensei in feudal Japan on this page. --Bob (talk) 22:09, 5 November 2007 (EST)

  • This page is going to be hell - Takezo Kensei is technically Hiro now. --Riddler 22:10, 5 November 2007 (EST)
    • ...after 1671. Up until that point, he was Adam. Yaeko's stories of Kensei were actually Hiro. Again, I say we leave the legend aspect separate somehow...maybe put it in Hiro's page, and have this article link to a disambig?--Bob (talk) 22:40, 5 November 2007 (EST)
      • Takezo is not a man but rather a figure of Japanese history, so I say leave them separate and let others find the spoiler within the text. :) -- Riffsyphon1024 22:41, 5 November 2007 (EST)
      • I like the direction this page is going in. --Riddler 22:45, 5 November 2007 (EST)
        • Yes now it is about the figure and links to the 3 persons that portrayed him. -- Riffsyphon1024 22:48, 5 November 2007 (EST)