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Talk:Paul E. Sylar

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A note of history

I'm all in favor of this article, and I'm glad you're working on it. In the past, an article about Paul E. Sylar has been written and deleted (more than once) because it was pure speculation based on a birth certificate barely shown in a promotional image from NBC. However, since the unaired pilot showed this Paul E. Sylar guy to be a living, breathing man (and not just a name on a piece of paper, or even a voice on a message), he's just as legitimate a candidate for an article as Amid Halebi or Captain Chase.

I'd still be very careful about speculation in this article, though. For instance, there's still no evidence that the picture of the altar boy that is hanging near the birth certificate is actually a picture of Paul E. Sylar, so I would remove it altogether. Also, Paul E. Sylar exists solely in the unaired pilot, so there should be no mingling of information with the Sylar we all know and love. In other words, if you want this page moved to the mainspace, it would have to be simply a history of the guy Mohinder meets at the end of the unaired pilot, and nothing else. However, if you want to keep all the speculation and stuff that's here (you know, to preserve your theories and such), that's fine, but then it really can't be moved to Paul E. Sylar. Just an friendly FYI. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:31, 5 September 2007 (EDT)

  • I second that completely. Ever since seeing the unaired pilot I realized that we now had a good reason for a Paul E. Sylar article... we just didn't in the past because the only info we had on him was best suited as a production footnote on Sylar's article. (Admin 22:42, 5 September 2007 (EDT))
    • OK, based on yalls comments above, I would like to follow this approach. Tell me what you think. Make a 'lite-version' of the article, that only has non-spec info, and get yalls approval to move it to the mainspace; and then I will keep a more fuller, robust version in my userspace....with the hopes that some of that stuff eventually might pan out. If it never does, I'll eventually delete it myself. Sound like an OK plan? If so, what specific parts would you suggest left out completely? The altar boy spec....and what else? Should anything be moved to the notes ?--HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 09/6/2007 08:18 (EST)

Other pre-move notes

A few more things are needed before this can move to the mainspace:

  • The episode history needs, at the very least, to be edited for perspective. References to episodes, etc. need to be removed.
  • Personally, I don't think the character "Paul E. Sylar" has a character history after the unaired pilot -- the other episodes refer to the Gabriel Gray version of Sylar, so they're not really part of Paul Sylar's history. If they're important to the article, they should probably go in Notes since they aren't part of the Paul E. Sylar character's history.
  • If the Paul E. Sylar birth announcement really is visible (and legible) in One Giant Leap, then we need pictures from that episode -- not promotional pictures from I for one have never seen it.
  • The statement "The Gray and Sons door denotes Gabriel Gray has a yet revealed brother(s)" is pure speculation. We don't know when G&S was founded. He could have unrevealed uncle(s) (if the business was started by his grandfather), grand-uncle(s), or great-grand-uncle(s). His father could merely have wanted another son. Heck, he could have just named it "Gray and Sons" before Gabriel was even born, just because he liked the name -- they don't check to make sure you have sons when you name your business So-and-so and Sons. For example, there's an auto shop near me called "Christian Brothers" that is owned by neither brothers nor Christians (in either name or faith). Saying it indicates he might have a brother or brothers in a Note is one thing. Saying it indicates that he has such a brother or brothers is another thing entirely, and highly speculative.--Hardvice (talk) 11:44, 6 September 2007 (EDT)
    • I couldn't agree more. It doesn't seem like things were removed from the article before the move. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:59, 6 September 2007 (EDT)

What is needed next then?

I agree with you guys that we should have a true Paul E. SYlar mainpage. I agree with you guys that we should remove speculation. I am going to move some stuff to the notes. However, some of the episodic stuff doesn't specifically identify GG or PES as who the 'Sylar' being addressed is, and I think they could stay, and not be speculative; since exact identification of 'which Sylar' wasn't given. For example, we know from the Unaired Pilot, that it was PES and not GG, on the Sylar Tape; which did debut in Dont Look Back. I'll move some things and change some things, and you guys tell me when you think it is close enough to mainpage it. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 09/6/2007 12:04 (EST)

  • The whole article as written reads as a big theory that Paul E. Sylar is a separate character in the current continuity and not merely a changed plotline. That's highly speculative, and we need to be very careful about how we phrase things to avoid appearing to make that statement (which is a theory, after all). I think most people who haven't seen the unaired pilot would be quite comfortable assuming that all the references to "Sylar" are references to Gabriel Gray. Also, having double-checked, the Paul E. Sylar birth announcement/altar boy picture is most definitely not in One Giant Leap -- it's from the unaired pilot only, and it's in Chandra's apartment in Chennai, not Sylar's apartment. Also (and this is very minor), he's not wearing a top hat--he's wearing what looks like a fedora or a homburg. A top hat is one like Abraham Lincoln or Mr. Peanut wears.--Hardvice (talk) 12:33, 6 September 2007 (EDT)
  • Do we need to include the information from Genesis, Don't Look Back and One Giant Leap? It doesn't seem relevant to me.--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:06, 6 September 2007 (EDT)
    • Paul E. Sylar only appeared in the unaired pilot, so, any references to "Sylar" in those episodes are references to Sylar Sylar, rather than this Sylar. To conclude - Genesis, Don't Look Back and One Giant Leap are irrelevant to Paul E. Sylar. --DocM 13:11, 6 September 2007 (EDT)
      • Exactly right. Paul E. Sylar does not exist outside of the unaired pilot, so there should be no mention of other episodes at all in the history. There should also be no mention of the Sylar portrayed by ZQ because he never appeared in the unaired pilot. The two are mutually exclusive. All else is speculation and needs to be removed. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:59, 6 September 2007 (EDT)

Found a Biggie

Paul Sylar Pilot Birth Announcement.jpg

After enhancing and lightening the Unaired pilot clip of Paul E Sylar, and comparing that to the unreleased Altarboy promotional picture from the (One Giant Leap) scene with Eden and Mohinder, you can see the previously unrelease promo clips hanging on the wall on the left-side of the map, behind Paul E. Sylar. We need to find more clips of this scene, and perhaps someone with the hi-def release of the boxset. This at least, moves the promo-clips into the realm of the Unaired pilot. I think we may find more discoveries like this as we dig into the box-set scenes. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 09/6/2007 13:15 (EST)

  • Yes, the birth announcement appears more than once in the unaired pilot, and is thus admissable for this page. However, I'm not sure the altar boy picture has anything to do with Paul E. Sylar. Sure, it may be him as a child, but that's just overzealous fans jumping to conclusions that don't necessarily exist. It's a picture of an altar boy found hanging near a birth announcement. That does not mean that the altar boy picture has anything to do with Paul E. Sylar at all, and I believe it should be removed, or perhaps mentioned solely in a note. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:59, 6 September 2007 (EDT)