Talk:Timeline:October 2006

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Apr 2007-May 2007	Few things • Template:Timelinearticle • Trial By Fire

Trial by Fire

• Ignoring the entire mess of pointless crap above, the only thing that can be said with any certainty is that TBF takes place after the morning of October 4, when Peter and Nathan have the conversation referenced. Therefore, I have updated the timeline to reflect a date of "after October 3". We should not state, imply, infer, or otherwise assign any special significance to that which we don't know,
  • "We should not state, imply, infer, or otherwise assign any special significance to that which we don't know." WOW. You really need to take a good look at yourself and this Wiki you police before you make statements like that and "Nowhere on this Wiki do we state what's most likely as if it were fact." Too easily you expose yourself to be full of it. "David was murdered by Sylar in Chicago", "Hyde Park is 100 miles north of NYC", pagefuls of timeline dates without those annoying "approx"s... These and so much more must all be certainties so you never saw fit to remove or qualify them. Heaven forbid that they are in fact speculative approximations or else *gasp* you'd have to admit you've been wrong and arbitrary. --Mercury McKinnon 09:31, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
• ... and saying the novel took place on "approximately" any single date does exactly that. What we know is that the earliest it could be is the evening of October 4.--Hardvice (talk) 05:06, 28 April 2007 (EDT)
  • Thank you for your completely arrogant, all-knowing tone! That is such a great substitute for sound arguments to support your pronouncements! We know more than the earliest possible date of Trial By Fire, we know which dates it cannot be, and saying it happened "after October 4" is misleading because it includes even those impossible dates. Only a dense person would say that a statement of events occurring on a defensible approximate date is misinformative, rather than well-established academic practice. The webcomic does give clues that narrow down the date but you chose to ignore them to further your own claim that the-only-thing-we-know-is-"after October 3". But I'm done trying to appeal to the reason of those who are totally closed to it and dismiss contrary reasoning as "crap". --Mercury McKinnon 09:31, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
• Completely agree Hardvice. Thank you for being a voice of reason. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:59, 28 April 2007 (EDT)
  • Well, isn't that a surprise. It's easier for the weak-minded to just say "I agree" and to bully those who question them than to actually address and prove such questioners wrong. --Mercury McKinnon 09:31, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
    • Personally, I'm very glad you're done trying to appeal our reason. Don't you know that there is no reasoning with weak-minded people like me? — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:58, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

String Theory and October Timeline

Given that Future Hiro pretty explicitly says he returned to October 4, 2006, I think we're going to have to accept the fact that the dates on Nathan's hotel receipt are off by one (says Oct 5-6; should be October 4-5). This would shift everything up one day; not only would this fill in October 3 (the "missing" day in most people's timelines, but it would place Future Hiro's visit on the evening of October 4th (end of Collision/beginning of Hiros) where it belongs. It also makes the hole in Niki's timeline slightly less problematic:

• October 1 -- Drops off Micah; sees eclipse; kills thugs
• October 2 -- Wakes up with dead thugs; picks up Micah; leaves
• October 3 -- Buries thugs, visits Paulette; picked up by cop
• October 4 -- Brought in by cop, seduces Nathan as Jessica

Her timeline still isn't perfect; she has to have left Micah at Tina's overnight and it still takes the cop an entire night to bring her in, but it's less absurd.--Hardvice (talk) 13:07, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

• • I doubt the receipt is wrong. More than likely, not everything in the episode occurs on the same day. All we do is move the instance of Hiro visiting peter to Oct 4.--Bob 13:25, 28 April 2007 (EDT)
    • Actually, it pretty much has to push all of the events of OGL and Collision back a day, because Peter and Mohinder have earlier interactions with Nathan, Eden, Isaac, and Simone (putting all of them on the same timeline; for example, since F.Hiro visits Peter the same day and shortly after Peter tried but failed to visit Isaac, Isaac's Collision events are locked on Oct 4 as well). Since Peter wakes up with Simone at the beginning of Collision, we know that morning takes place the day after OGL; Nathan's already leaving for Vegas that day (campaign manager tells him to "have a safe trip"). The only way to disconnect Nathan (and everyone he interacts with) from the same timeline, and to rectify the receipt, is to assume Nathan spent the rest of the day (and a night) in Vegas before visiting the Casino (if `we assume the receipt's date are correct, then if he went to the casino on the day he travels to Vegas the receipt would be Oct 4-6, not Oct 5-6). Nathan's events sliding back a day affects Niki's timetable Matt, Claire, and Hiro's events aren't tied to Peter & co., but all of their dates until Fallout are based only on the receipt, so if Nathan's timeline is off, then so is everybody else's. Moving just F.Hiro/Peter both creates unexplained gaps and forces events in which Peter or Mohinder (also on the train) have interactions with others that must take place before the meeting, but would be listed as taking place after the meeting.--Hardvice (talk) 15:29, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

• With Mohinder confirming that Oct 4th was when he received his father's ashes, that puts Collision on 4 Oct. What I find in the problem that arises is that we assume all the events of an episode occur within the same day. We need to toy around a bit to shift individual events with time markers (like the receipt) so that those fit.--Bob 20:28, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
  • Right. I'm not saying we should assume all of the events of Collision take place on Oct 4. I'm saying that moving Peter and Mohinder's events necessarily moves Simone, Isaac, and Nathan's events. Moving Nathan's events moves his trip to Vegas since he leaves that day. Moving his trip to Vegas pretty much invalidates the hotel receipt, and that's the only basis for everybody else's dates. Here's how it's all hinged together:

Oct 4. Nathan/Mohinder --> Peter/Simone/Nathan --> Peter/Mohinder/Eden --> Peter/Mohinder/Isaac --> Peter/Mohinder/Future Hiro

Before Mohinder arrives, Nathan and his campaign manager discuss his trip to Vegas to get Linderman's contribution. As the limo pulls away, the manager tells him to have a good trip. (This is moderately weird in any case, as the campaign manager also goes to Vegas, but maybe they're just not on the same flight). It's possible Nathan doesn't leave for Vegas until the 5th, I guess, but that makes the whole conversation even weirder. If he goes to Vegas on the fourth, the receipt is wrong (or he slept at the airport or had a red-eye flight). If he goes to Vegas on the fifth, it's correct (they bill him for the sixth, but I'm guessing he missed checkout time, what with the whole attempted kidnapping and all). I haven't followed it down the line for the other characters who are locked on the 4th if we leave Nathan, Hiro, Niki, and Claire on the 5th (Claire's tied in because of Bennet's phone call from Sandra; Hiro's tied in because of his meeting with Nathan at the Fly By Night), but we should do so and see if having these characters a day apart for some events in Collision and Hiros creates problems the next time they interact. For example, Peter, Isaac, Eden, and Mohinder's Hiros events take place on the 5th (Peter tells Isaac they tried to visit him last night). The next big interaction between these two groups is in Better Halves when Eden calls Mr. Bennet. For this to work out, we have at least one missing day for Peter/Isaac/Eden/Mohinder: Peter and Isaac were last seen discussing the missing painting on the 5th in Hiros, a conversation which carries over to the opening of Better Halves. Mohinder was last seen on the subway on October 4th; he and Eden could be discussing his departure on the 5th (Peter's timeline), the 6th (one ep per day from the subway scene), or the 7th, but it has to be the 7th to fit with Claire/Bennet's timeline if we assume the receipt was correct (accident on the evening of the 5th, hospital on the 6th, fake parents on the 7th). Even if we put everybody on the same timeline, it's been at least one full day since he left with Peter (since Eden has to be on the same timeline as Bennet, this conversation has to take place on either the 6th (if the receipt is wrong) or the 7th (if the receipt is right).

This requires mapping it out character by character, I think.--Hardvice (talk) 13:13, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

• This weekend, I'll put up a bunch of strings around my apartment for the timeline of each character and where they connect. How does that sound? Haha.--Bob 15:53, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
  • It's actually not far off from my plans, which is to print them out, cut them out, and lay them out on a big piece of butcher paper. Evidently Future Hiro knows how confusing this timeline is, even without possible dark futures.--Hardvice (talk) 16:58, 2 May 2007 (EDT)