Talk:Empathic mimicry
| Archives | Archived Topics |
|---|---|
| Dec 2006-Feb 2007 | Great layout • Examples • Not his power! • Proximity • Votes • Making the move • Range: Claire vs. Claude • Distractions • Does mimicry equal acquisition? • The dreams and visions... my new theory. • Paint Cans • Eden's Power |
The time-stopping.
I'd keep that in there and move the "may or may not have" section. It makes sense to keep at least one occurance of each power in that list, and put the powers used more than once (invisibility, telekinesis) on the examples page. --Riddler 00:41, 2 March 2007 (EST)
- I went back and forth on that example. Because there was so much talk about it, I figured I'd take it out of the main page. It doesn't really matter one way or the other though, since it's on the examples of empathic mimicry page. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:45, 2 March 2007 (EST)
- I am still on the side that he did not stop time ---- And I think that the episode "Parasite" proves it. Sylar used TK to stop the bullet in midair --- much like Peter used TK to stop the tazers. I am now completely confident that I am right. I was a little iffy about it and was more like "Well there is not enough evidence to prove either way" and was hoping that it would be moved to unconfirmed. However, now I think people should totally not convey that it was STM until there is more proof that Peter can use STM. But I know that that will never happen on this board.Guy 09:30, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- All I can say is listen to the audio when Peter is shot with the tazer. It's the biggest giveaway that he stopped time to do it. Just because two powers can be uses to stop a bullet doesn't mean they're the same power. (Admin 09:35, 7 March 2007 (EST))
- Okay so that is one point of evidence to four or five counter evidence that Peter used TK. If Hiro stopped time, that means that Peter could not absorb his ability, because it takes TIME to absorb an ability. He is normally in the vicinity for at least a few moments usually minutes. If there was not just a short amount of time, but NO TIME then he could not absorb that ability. Claude is moving during the scene. If he would have stopped time that does not explain why it just dropped to the ground. Sylar, who to this point has never produced anything similar to STM, completed the same feat with TK. At no other time, does Peter show that he can use STM (other than this mentioned here). Hiro has the ability to move and manipulate things during STM and can STM with objects and other people making it completely simple to "awaken" peter during the time stop scene (especially after many 'unconfirmed' years of study and discipline to hone a skill) I am convinced that Peter not only didn't use STM, but CAN'T use STM till he meets Hiro in person, which I discern, is the significance of him only meeting Ando in Texas.
- Nobody on this board has denied that Peter used TK with the Taser darts. The point of contention is not whether he used TK, it's whether he used STM. Evidence in favor of the former does not count as evidence against the latter. Since there is solid give-away evidence that he did use STM, and there has been no good evidence presented that he did not, it should stand as probable that he did.--E rowe 11:28, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- Also, as to there being other evidence that Peter can use STM, we already have it. He used it when he met Future Hiro.--E rowe 11:30, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- It should also be noted that Peter spent a few minutes (from his point of view) talking with Future Hiro, so he definitely had the opportunity to absorb the power. --Ted C 11:33, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- Since I'm not sure if these boards have really laid out the evidence that Peter absorbed STM when he met Future Hiro, I'll do that now. The scene begins with a shot panning around the people in the subway car frozen in time before it zooms back to show the back of Future Hiro walking alone. The audience can then see both Mohindar and Peter standing frozen in time at the end of the car. When Hiro gets close Peter unfreezes because of having absorbed Hiro's power when he came in range. Peter turns around and Hiro takes a second before recognizing him. Although it is now apparent that Hiro can extend the use of his power to include others, and Future Hiro is presumably more skilled with is power than we have seen with present Hiro, the order of events in the subway indicate that Peter was not brought into the time freeze by Hiro, but he entered it himself before Hiro recognized him.--E rowe 11:57, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- The idea that Peter used space-time manipulation is pretty clear to me. However, since there have such ardent dissenters, we have tried to make it quite vague. It's listed on the examples page as an absorbed power. On this page, it's listed under the limits as a reproduced power, but the only example is listed as a "possible example". It's also listed on Peter's page. In the end, we have to mention it, since so many believe it's quite clear. However, we must also recognize those that strongly believe otherwise. Because it's a somewhat gray area, I think we have done a nice job of straddling the line to appease both camps. Calling it a "possible example" allows for doubt, and mentioning Future Hiro lends support. I think our wording has handled the situation as best as possible. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:23, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- The wording is "Peter slowed and then stopped time when attacked with taser darts" and doesn't appear to leave ANY room for doubt. rewording it to something like "Peter possibly slowed and then stopped time when attacked with taser darts" and make some mention of the possibility of it being TK.--Joedu 15:34, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
- I think when Peter is having his vision with Charles in it, he asks if he is time-travelling. To me this suggested that he knows he can manipulate time, but not able to really control it, especially since he's passed out. OUChevelleSS 13:46, 22 May 2007 (EDT)
- The wording is "Peter slowed and then stopped time when attacked with taser darts" and doesn't appear to leave ANY room for doubt. rewording it to something like "Peter possibly slowed and then stopped time when attacked with taser darts" and make some mention of the possibility of it being TK.--Joedu 15:34, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
- The idea that Peter used space-time manipulation is pretty clear to me. However, since there have such ardent dissenters, we have tried to make it quite vague. It's listed on the examples page as an absorbed power. On this page, it's listed under the limits as a reproduced power, but the only example is listed as a "possible example". It's also listed on Peter's page. In the end, we have to mention it, since so many believe it's quite clear. However, we must also recognize those that strongly believe otherwise. Because it's a somewhat gray area, I think we have done a nice job of straddling the line to appease both camps. Calling it a "possible example" allows for doubt, and mentioning Future Hiro lends support. I think our wording has handled the situation as best as possible. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:23, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- Since I'm not sure if these boards have really laid out the evidence that Peter absorbed STM when he met Future Hiro, I'll do that now. The scene begins with a shot panning around the people in the subway car frozen in time before it zooms back to show the back of Future Hiro walking alone. The audience can then see both Mohindar and Peter standing frozen in time at the end of the car. When Hiro gets close Peter unfreezes because of having absorbed Hiro's power when he came in range. Peter turns around and Hiro takes a second before recognizing him. Although it is now apparent that Hiro can extend the use of his power to include others, and Future Hiro is presumably more skilled with is power than we have seen with present Hiro, the order of events in the subway indicate that Peter was not brought into the time freeze by Hiro, but he entered it himself before Hiro recognized him.--E rowe 11:57, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- Okay so that is one point of evidence to four or five counter evidence that Peter used TK. If Hiro stopped time, that means that Peter could not absorb his ability, because it takes TIME to absorb an ability. He is normally in the vicinity for at least a few moments usually minutes. If there was not just a short amount of time, but NO TIME then he could not absorb that ability. Claude is moving during the scene. If he would have stopped time that does not explain why it just dropped to the ground. Sylar, who to this point has never produced anything similar to STM, completed the same feat with TK. At no other time, does Peter show that he can use STM (other than this mentioned here). Hiro has the ability to move and manipulate things during STM and can STM with objects and other people making it completely simple to "awaken" peter during the time stop scene (especially after many 'unconfirmed' years of study and discipline to hone a skill) I am convinced that Peter not only didn't use STM, but CAN'T use STM till he meets Hiro in person, which I discern, is the significance of him only meeting Ando in Texas.
- All I can say is listen to the audio when Peter is shot with the tazer. It's the biggest giveaway that he stopped time to do it. Just because two powers can be uses to stop a bullet doesn't mean they're the same power. (Admin 09:35, 7 March 2007 (EST))
- I am still on the side that he did not stop time ---- And I think that the episode "Parasite" proves it. Sylar used TK to stop the bullet in midair --- much like Peter used TK to stop the tazers. I am now completely confident that I am right. I was a little iffy about it and was more like "Well there is not enough evidence to prove either way" and was hoping that it would be moved to unconfirmed. However, now I think people should totally not convey that it was STM until there is more proof that Peter can use STM. But I know that that will never happen on this board.Guy 09:30, 7 March 2007 (EST)
- Not that NBC has the best track record when it comes to accuracy, but I'll mention for posterity that on the Heroes site one of their pictures from the episode is explained as "While Claude and Peter discuss evolution on the rooftop, a dart hits Claude in the neck – the Haitian and Mr. Bennet have come calling. Peter stops the dart meant for him by freezing time. He then throws Claude off the rooftop and flies to the rescue in order to make their escape." (Admin 00:16, 16 May 2007 (EDT))
- After reviewing a video of the scene in question, it seemed that the darts fell to the ground after Peter supposedly froze time. If Peter froze time, wouldn't the darts just continue to strike him after he stopped the timefreeze? Additionally, it appears that the darts were quivering in mid-air. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9xcdfJfQ6Y) Thrashmeister 21:10, 7 June 2007 (EDT)
- Yes, the darts would continue if Peter only used Hiro's power, but the consensus is that Peter froze time, then used telekinesis to drop the darts. The thing that made it obvious that Peter stopped time was that Bennet and the Haitian were frozen in time.--Ice Vision 21:14, 7 June 2007 (EDT)
Two things on the time stopping
How could it be TK with the sound effects? Also if you look, there is no blinking electrical light from the Haitian's tazer. There is on Bennet's before contact with Claude. Claude is also moving very slowly, definitely not spasming as quickly as he would with voltage moving through his body.
In response to 'Peter didn't have enough contact with Future Hiro to absorb his power', he had just about as much contact time as he did with Claire prior to healing, and he still was able to use it. OUChevelleSS 17:23, 4 May 2007 (EDT)
(Sorry I'm new, feel free to move this into the other thread where I intended, unless I figure it out first).
Multi-power Use
I'm having an issue with the whole "invisibility and TK" at the same time claim. As I said, you can't conclusively say that someone who is invisible is using telekinesis, unless he's partially visible while the cup is moving toward him. Is there an image from the episode that would settle this question? --Ted C 16:24, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
Here ya go.--Ice Vision 16:31, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
- OK, I can work with that. I'm wondering if we should use it in the article. --Ted C 16:34, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
- I've fiddled with working it into the page. It won't work as a thumb. Is this acceptable? Any other options? --Ted C 16:41, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
- An animation only works when it's at full size. It looks fine on the page. I've also put the same image into the galleries of examples of empathic mimicry, examples of invisibility and examples of telekinesis. It doesn't animate unless you click on the image, so the caption reads something like "Watch as Peter uses two powers at once." — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:19, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
- Animations are also very large files and should be used very sparingly. Personally I'd rather we didn't use them in articles at all. They're often over 10x larger than static images. (Admin 22:13, 29 May 2007 (EDT))
- An animation only works when it's at full size. It looks fine on the page. I've also put the same image into the galleries of examples of empathic mimicry, examples of invisibility and examples of telekinesis. It doesn't animate unless you click on the image, so the caption reads something like "Watch as Peter uses two powers at once." — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:19, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
- I've fiddled with working it into the page. It won't work as a thumb. Is this acceptable? Any other options? --Ted C 16:41, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
- I noticed that he starts to turn visible almost immediately after the cup begins to move. Isn't it possible that he switched to telekinesis without turning visible first, and it took a short time for the invisibility to fade? In The Fix, after Claude walks out of Peter's range (we see him fade from view from Peter's perspective), Peter stays invsible for a few seconds before fading back into view. Conduit 19:11, 22 May 2007 (EDT)
- It's possible, but I think any conclusion remains speculative and not deductively established. It's possible that he just hadn't learned to control the ability to become invisible when not in Claude's presence. It's possible to argue that Peter's invisibility faded due to the psychological compulsion/fear of seeing the source of the invisibility walk away. Because this was a future timeline, it's also possible that multiple power use is something Peter doesn't gain until after a long time of training/experience. My observation for the above image is that the cup completes most of its movement before Peter even starts to become visible. And even this is debatable with any number of complicating factors such as whether the TK is used just to give the cup an initial tug and it slides to a stop due to regular friction, or whether he uses TK all the way from start to stop, etc.. --Glue 19:53, 22 May 2007 (EDT)
From the most recent Behind the Eclipse: [1]
"Shaun asks, 'Was the fact that Nathan was needed to fly Peter away just done for dramatic effect since Peter has flight, too, or does this prove Peter only has access to one power at a time?'
It’s the latter. Peter even says, 'I can’t stop it. I can’t do anything.” Peter was helpless. There were two options. Kill Peter. Or Nathan could fly him away and try to save them all. Now, if Peter or Nathan survived and how – remains to be seen.'"
So it's quite possible that scene in Five Years Gone was a mistake. I've added this to the notes. Conduit 18:05, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
- I don't think it was a mistake, I think what the writers meant was that Peter couldn't use his other powers while he was going nuclear, not that he can never use more than one power at a time. Come to think of it, when Peter and Claude have their fight with broom handles in Unexpected, they're invisible and Peter uses psychokinesis.--Pearse 18:42, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
- Right, I believe the writers were referring to that particular moment at Kirby Plaza, not in general. However, it is unclear in the interview, so the Notes is the best place for the info. But even if the statement were taken as you're interpreting it, I'm still not sure the scene in 5YG is a mistake. Five years is a long time to learn to control and access more than one power at a time. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:02, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
- I agree, there are many ways for one to interpret an interview. He seemed to be talking about the moment at Kirby Plaza, nothing else. It would be extremely pathetic and disappointing if Peter could only use one power at a time.--Ice Vision 21:46, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
- Right, I believe the writers were referring to that particular moment at Kirby Plaza, not in general. However, it is unclear in the interview, so the Notes is the best place for the info. But even if the statement were taken as you're interpreting it, I'm still not sure the scene in 5YG is a mistake. Five years is a long time to learn to control and access more than one power at a time. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:02, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
Empathic Mimicry and just Empathy
I just watched Genesis again some days ago and didn't think of this until now. Peter said that when his father died, he felt it. I'm thinking that empathy was the first power Peter absorbed, possibly from his father because he mentions that he felt connected to him. --User:Rockyrojas88
- Claude calls Peter an "Empath"; mimicry is just one of the effects of Empathy. --Ted C 07:20, 16 May 2007 (EDT)
- ah, okay then thanks for clearing that up --User:Rockyrojas88
- Didn't Angela Petrelli say Peter had a heart just like his father (in addition to the 'depression', etc)? Maybe mimicry is Peter's power and he has just had empathy the whole time from his father as a young child, making being empathic (to people in general) something of Peter's core. Just a thought. OUChevelleSS 19:13, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
- Peter's power is empathy. It's not his father's, and I don't think Angela ever said that. Do you remember the episode?--Ice Vision 19:28, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
- Didn't Angela Petrelli say Peter had a heart just like his father (in addition to the 'depression', etc)? Maybe mimicry is Peter's power and he has just had empathy the whole time from his father as a young child, making being empathic (to people in general) something of Peter's core. Just a thought. OUChevelleSS 19:13, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
- ah, okay then thanks for clearing that up --User:Rockyrojas88
Peter's power collection
Under Limits, it states that Peter does not necessarilly have to see a power being used in order to absorb it and cites Ted's power of induced radioactivity as an example. However, the information on induced radioactivity states that he cannot consistently control his powers, particularly when agitated. I believe Peter can only pick up powers that are used in his vicinity, whether consciously (like Claude's invisibility) or naturally (like Claire's regeneration). Ted potentially covers both.
This would explain why Peter has not exhibited the powers of many of the people he has come in contact with, particularly Sylar, from whom he only seems to have gained telekinesis, which Sylar directly used on him. However, under Theories, it's indicated that creators have confirmed that Peter picked up all of Sylar's powers, but there is no citation for this. Does anyone have the link to the interview? --Nightxade 11:44, 24 May 2007 (EDT)