Talk:Explosion future
Careful!
There are at least 2 dark futures, the one at the beginning of String Theory where Future Hiro didn't go back at all, and the one shown in the episode, where Future Hiro went back but Present Hiro didn't stop the explosion (presuming he does so). They are arguably different enough to matter. In one, Sylar was the bomb, in the other, it was Peter. In one, Claire died in 2007 2006 (edit by Alexwill 10:26, 1 May 2007 (EDT)), in the other, Claire died in 2011. Gregorus 09:40, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- We might need to split it to clarify, then. --Ted C 09:48, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- I think a good method would be refering to the timeline before Hiro travels back to warn Peter as Dark Future A or 1, and after as Dark Future B or 2, and any subsequent Dark Futures named as such.... Alexwill 10:26, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Numbering is too complex. Listing it sequentially and as a different future is enough. I like how it is. It gets too confusing when you start calling something A and B or 1 and 2. --Bob 10:28, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- So far, there's only one. In both String Theory and Five Years Gone, Sylar used Candace's power to disguise Peter as Sylar. At least, that's what I assume. Heroe!(talk) 17:08, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Correct, you're assuming. If it were one timeline, there's also the causality paradox. Why would FHiro travel back? This implies that Peter always had regeneration, Sylar stole illusion, and it's a repeating loop. It's paradoxial, which is why it's not safe to assume in time travel situations.--Bob 18:02, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- There are absolutely two. At the beginning of String Theory, Claire had died in 2006. By the end of the comic, Claire was alive, while Future Hiro still believed her dead because he had his memories from the previous timeline. Changes did take place. Gregorus 23:54, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Correct, you're assuming. If it were one timeline, there's also the causality paradox. Why would FHiro travel back? This implies that Peter always had regeneration, Sylar stole illusion, and it's a repeating loop. It's paradoxial, which is why it's not safe to assume in time travel situations.--Bob 18:02, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- So far, there's only one. In both String Theory and Five Years Gone, Sylar used Candace's power to disguise Peter as Sylar. At least, that's what I assume. Heroe!(talk) 17:08, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Numbering is too complex. Listing it sequentially and as a different future is enough. I like how it is. It gets too confusing when you start calling something A and B or 1 and 2. --Bob 10:28, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
The Message
I don't want to get into an editing conflict over whether to include Hiro's actions in String Theory here. My personal opinion, however, is that events that actually occur in the GN should be on the GN's page, and events that occur "around" String Theory and Five Years Gone should be on this page. --Ted C 14:33, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Then why have this article? The point of the article is to illustrate what lead to the dark future. Since there are multiple futures, it needs to be explained as to how that occurred. It's for the purpose of clarity to the reader, not an attempt to somewhat alter formatting.--Bob 18:04, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- As noted below, my intent was to "fill the gaps" around the episodes and graphic novels. However, I've been convinced that repeating some of the information here is not a bad thing. --Ted C 18:06, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
Walls, Part 1
Shouldn't the events of the Walls graphic novel be included in this article, somehow? Afterall, it does provide some information on the history of the "Dark Future". Joser Kyind 16:06, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- I would include events leading up to it, but leave the actual events described in the GN's own page. --Ted C 16:53, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- I'm not sure I understand your insistance on keeping the events of the GN's and episodes out of this article. Especially since the Walls comic is an important piece of the history behind Five Years Gone. It's not like anyone is calling for an in depth description of everything that happens in it, just a couple of main bullet points, like this:
- I just think it's redundant. Those events are discussed on their own pages; I created this one to fill in the gaps. I'm not seriously objecting, anymore; I just have a preference. --Ted C 17:16, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- While I can understand that logic, and even agree with it to a point, I feel that the nature of a wiki leads to the necessity of some redundancy. For example, the character history sections of the character pages are "redundant" in the fact that the events described in them are included in the corresponding episode and GN pages, but I don't think anyone would argue that those sections should be removed. As for this particular page, I feel that, if it is intended to describe the Dark Future that Hiro comes from, some mention should be made of the major events that are actually shown in the articles and GN's. Joser Kyind 17:49, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- OK, I'm sold. --Ted C 17:58, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- While I can understand that logic, and even agree with it to a point, I feel that the nature of a wiki leads to the necessity of some redundancy. For example, the character history sections of the character pages are "redundant" in the fact that the events described in them are included in the corresponding episode and GN pages, but I don't think anyone would argue that those sections should be removed. As for this particular page, I feel that, if it is intended to describe the Dark Future that Hiro comes from, some mention should be made of the major events that are actually shown in the articles and GN's. Joser Kyind 17:49, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- I just think it's redundant. Those events are discussed on their own pages; I created this one to fill in the gaps. I'm not seriously objecting, anymore; I just have a preference. --Ted C 17:16, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- I'm not sure I understand your insistance on keeping the events of the GN's and episodes out of this article. Especially since the Walls comic is an important piece of the history behind Five Years Gone. It's not like anyone is calling for an in depth description of everything that happens in it, just a couple of main bullet points, like this:
The Name
I recall Future Hiro using the exact phrase "Dark Future" early in Five Years Gone. Is that just my imagination? I ask, because I see no reason to go around referring to "one possible future" in other articles. Eventually, this future will presumably become impossible. If "Dark Future" is a term established in the show, I see no reason not to use it in the Wiki as a specific reference to the dystopian future of Five Years Gone. --Ted C 16:58, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- It's still a possible future. Hiro has the ability to change the future, which is what he plans on doing. So the "dark future", whichever one it is, is still just a possibility. Implying it as a proper noun means that it exists, which is not the case. No future is set in stone, unless predestination is established, which the writers have stated against.--Bob 17:54, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Before long, though, the events we've seen will become a part of Hiro's past. At that point, the paradox problem will make it much more difficult to fix. Further, if there are other possibilities for the future, then being able to refer to this timeline by a specific name may be useful as a way for us to distinguish timelines. --Ted C 18:01, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Is "Dark Future" used to refer solely to the timeline period shown in Five Years Gone where Hiro has gone back to warn Peter, so that Claire doesn't die at Homecoming in 2006, but Sylar still survives and Peter still explodes. Or, does it also refer to the original timeline that Future Hiro came from, which existed in his worldline, where Claire was killed by Sylar? If the former, then there would need to be another name or indicator to talk about the original timelime where Future Hiro from Hiros came from, so the summary provided in the graphic novel String Theory of what happened before Hiro left to deliver The Message. --Alexwill 22:58, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
Is the term actually "Dark Future," or did Hiro just refer to it as a "dark future"?--Cylon 23:40, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
- If someone's got the exact phrase he used to describe his history, it would make a good Memorable Quote for this page. --Ted C 10:33, 3 May 2007 (EDT)