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{{Talk:Electric manipulation/top}}
{|style="padding: 2px; background-color: #BBBBBB; border: 1px solid #FFFFFF; width: 100%;-moz-border-radius:8px; clear: both;"
{{power names|2|eos=This ability has been explicitly and expertly named by [[Elle]]'s [[Assignment Tracker]] profile}}
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__TOC__
|align="left"|[[Image:Archive.jpg|45px]]
|align="center"|<span style="font-size:14px;">This talk page is about ''the power'' Lightning, '''not its name'''. Please keep discussion to the power and not its name.
|align="right"|[[Image:Archive.jpg|45px]]<br>
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==Highly Confused==
{| border="2" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="4" class="wikitable"
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! Archives
! Archived Topics
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| align=center | [[Talk:Lightning/Archive 1|Oct/Nov 2007]] || <small>{{ArchiveLinks|Talk:Lightning/Archive 1}}</small>
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{{power names|1|eos=The name of "lightning" has been explicitly used to refer to this ability numerous times, most notably in ''[[Petrified Lightning]]'' and ''[[Four Months Ago...]]''}}


I know some people are going to sigh at this but as the title says I'm very confused for several reasons:
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__TOC__

==Absolutely, absolutely hate to do this==
1) You've listed Elle's power as Electric Manipulation. Shouldn't this be Electrokinesis (which means creating and conrtollling electricity (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychokinesis#Umbrella_term for an example) just like with Cryo, psycho, tele and pyrokinesis (amongst others).
Especially with that foreboding template on the page's top, but, just as a suggestion, Joe Pokaski and Aron Eli Coleite call Elle's power "good old electrokinesis" in response to a fan's question [http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12227 here]. The Living Lightning is in reference to a Marvel Comics character who has, in addition to other powers, electrokinesis; this is evidenced by both words being capitalised. I hope I don't get into trouble for this, I only wanted to point it out for the good of the Project and its credibility. [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 00:50, 26 November 2007 (EST)
* "Electrokinesis", as far as I understand, is a made up term, and is not a real term like "telekinesis" or "pyrokinesis". However, I'm not a language expert, so I can't be positive. Although, I what I am positive about is that Elle's [[Assignment Tracker 2.0]] explicitly lists her ability as "electric manipulation", so that's what we use. Our job here is to archive the information that's given to us, not to figure out something that sounds better or fits better. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 20:01, 31 May 2009 (EDT)
* This has been discussed at length, so I'll give you the brief answer. :) There are several canonical references to the power as "lightning" which trump the "electrokinesis" reference in the interview. For more detail, check out the archived discussions for this page. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 00:55, 26 November 2007 (EST))

**Hate to say it but i think the creators of the show have a higher say than what Peter would call it... cause Peter just saw that he could throw electric bolts, if it happened to you or me without any prior knowlege we would call it lightning too. But creators actually know what they want it to be... sorry to bring this up again but i really think Electrokinesis takes the cake.--[[User:.Vault|.Vault]] 16:59, 26 November 2007 (EST)
2) In relation to point 1, some people supported the idea of calling it lightning and cite quotes from the show as proof. I've read some of those quotes. Lightning is a noun, it refers to the product of Electric Manipulation/Electrokinesis. That would be like calling pyrokinesis "Fire".
***When information from an interview conflicts with information from an episode, the episode always wins out, no matter what. It doesn't matter what we think about it or whether we like the outcome. Anything which appears in an interview can always be changed by the time it appears in an episode. See [[Help:Sources]] and [[Help:Naming_conventions#Power_Names]]. That said, the writers and producers have ''also'' used "lightning" in interviews and episode commentaries, so even if it came down to a head-to-head conflict between secondary sources, "electrokinesis" is no more "official" than "lightning"--setting aside for the moment that the writers merely repeated the word given to them, and that "lightning" has been used in interviews multiple times.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 17:06, 26 November 2007 (EST)

* i damn right agree with electrokinesis. the same way 'plant growth' should be florakinesis, and 'induced radioactivity' Radiokinesis!
3) Surely, if Electric Manipulation is to be the name for this power then Electrokinesis shoudl redirect here rather than to the [[Electric (disambig)]]
** "Florakinesis" means "flower movement". "Induced radioactivity" appeared in an episode (it's listed in the Genesis files). The ability names listed on AE.org are made up by fans and, frankly, mostly awful.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 16:15, 2 December 2007 (EST)

4) Shouldn't electrical absortion come under Electric manipulation since you're basically manipulating electricity?

5) Lastly, why are interviews with writers considered less canonical than what's in the episodes, I'd think it would be the other way around. -- [[User:Wiccid|Wiccid]] 19:15, 31 May 2009 (EDT)
* Our goal here is not to archive what writers say, but to record what is said in the world of ''Heroes''. In fact, interviews with writers are not [[canon]]ical at all. They are good secondary and supplementary information, but episodes will always trump what a writer says in an interview, article, commentary, or elsewhere. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 20:01, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

== Sylar's immunity to tazers ==


I think this ability or regeneration is why Sylar is immune to tazers. He wasn't immune before, but it wasn't really shown if he became immune after getting regeneration or this because his only real on-screen tazerings were in Fugitives. I think having this ability makes him immune to electricty, like tazers.--[[User:WarGrowlmon18|WarGrowlmon18]] 14:24, 29 September 2009 (EDT)
==Perhaps==
*Immediately after gaining claires ability, he is walking down the street and gets tazed without effect. RCR is the source of his immunity.
Perhaps Elle needs both arms active to maintain full control over her power. She was aiming to kill Sylar and hit him dead-center but he only staggers for a second, even through she stunned Peter with much less effort. ---{{User:Seclusion/sig}}19:50, 4 December 2007 (EST)
: I assume she didn't want to kill Sylar, just incapacitate him (and she miscalculated). She used a much higher amount of "lightning" on Peter, because his powers (regeneration, strength, maybe even lightning) made him able to survive much higher voltages.--[[User:Tim Thomason|Tim Thomason]] 18:46, 13 December 2007 (EST)


== Gloves ==
==difference between Elle's lightning and Peter's==
* I noticed that Peter's lightning has more of a wavy appearance to it while Elle's actually looks like a strike of lightning. Did anyone else notice this? I think it is the same basic principle like West and NAthan's different flying. [[User:Jason Garrick|Jason Garrick]] 16:52, 13 December 2007 (EST)
**I never noticed that. It's certainly possible. Are there any screencaps in particular that highlight the difference? -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 17:07, 13 December 2007 (EST)
*** I actually don't think this is the case, Elle uses her power in a similar fashion to Peter but perhaps due her increased control, it sometimes looks different. [[:Image:Powers elle zaps peter yet again 1.jpg|This one]] she uses it in lightning form. [[:Image:Powers elle zaps peter.jpg|This one]], [[:Image:Die dam it.jpg|this one]], [[:Image:Take this.jpg|and this one]], however don't use it in that fashion. [[:Image:Quiet.jpg|This one]] doesn't have any real difference to Elle using it. I think its all power development tbh. {{User:Seclusion/sig}}17:48, 13 December 2007 (EST)
**** There is a possibility that there is a difference, but it's nothing significant. Peter, Ted, and Sylar have all glowed different colors. They're just creative differences.--[[User:Ice Vision|Ice Vision]] 19:19, 13 December 2007 (EST)
*****Yeah, I checked. Your right. Peter only has wavy lightning twice. Once at Ricky's pub and once when he shot Adam. After that it is just like Elle's. [[User:Jason Garrick|Jason Garrick]] 19:45, 14 December 2007 (EST)
******I think it may be intentional - Isn't everyone with a (visible) power supposed to manifest it in different ways? Hence West having a different style of flight from Nathan, induced radioactivity appearing differently for Pete/Ted/Sylar/Amid, Angela (assuming she has [[persuasion]]) having to touch a person whilst Eden does not etc. - [[User:Goldenboy|Goldenboy]] 16:12, 18 December 2007 (EST)
*******Angela what now? -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 18:53, 18 December 2007 (EST)
*******Angela? Angela Petrelli. - [[User:Goldenboy|Goldenboy]] 12:48, 19 December 2007 (EST)
******** Angela has no confirmed power. --{{User:Ice Vision/sig}} 13:01, 19 December 2007 (EST)
******** The "touch" aspect of it, at least, has been confirmed to be Cristine Rose's doing, and not in the script. As for "persuasion"--well, people ''actually did'' what Eden told them. People have a pretty spotty record of doing what Angela tells them. She's manipulative, but doesn't seem to be superhumanly so.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 13:28, 19 December 2007 (EST)
*There are different types of lightning in the real world, too: ball lightning, sheet lightning, ribbon lightning... There's no 'right or wrong' way to portray a lightning bolt, as long as it gets the job done. Regardless of how the lightning bolt forms, it's still a conducting of electrons along an ion path. Why do we have to assume that this power always forms the path in the same way? That doesn't even happen in nature. --[[User:Yamawhata?|Yamawhata?]] 17:10, 4 February 2008 (EST)


Is it possible to use this ability, or any of the heat abilities, or freezing, if someone had gloves on?--{{User:Catalyst/sig}} 16:38, 25 October 2009 (EDT)
== name change ==
*Gloves were used to subdue Tracy, so I think that if they were of special materials, they could be used to restrain the use of such abilities, as long as the evolved human tries to use it via their hands. [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 16:56, 25 October 2009 (EDT)
**But remember that tracy was still able to shatter out of the gloves eventually. And I'd say, based on a lot of demonstrations, that electric manipulation isn't reliant on the hands.[[User:Gamerelite1|Gamerelite1]] 14:07, 12 November 2009 (EST)
***Only eventually, and she also had to build it up. [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 14:42, 12 November 2009 (EST)
****So, with gloves you would by at a clothing store, would someone still be able to fire lightning with them on, without burning their gloves?--{{User:Catalyst/sig}} 17:07, 12 November 2009 (EST)
*****Depending on the glove... [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 17:15, 12 November 2009 (EST)
==Why is this not "Electricity Manipulation?==


From what I understand, "Electric manipulation" is manipulation using electricity, which is not what the power is. Electricity Manipulation is more politically-correct. The ability allows its user to manipulate(and also generate) electricity. I guess this has been discussed in the archives but I didn't read it (too long, many posts are pointless). Can anyone explain the reason for naming is as such?--[[User:Realistic|Realistic]] 08:31, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
sorry but i disagree lightning is a good name for this power electric generation or electricity generation definately sounds better, besides for many people they might get confused by the power lightning , which may diffirent interpretations , i saw her power the name definately should be called electric generation or electricity generation--[[User:Zoga78|Zoga78]] 19:25, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
*If you ever want to know where ability names come from, just read the blue box in the top right hand corner of the talk page. It is noted explicitly in the assignment tracker as electric manipulation, so that's what we use. --[[User:Mc hammark|mc_hammark]] 08:35, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
* Peter calls it lightning in the show so that's the name that is used.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 19:33, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
*no --[[User:Piemanmoo|Piemanmoo]] 05:48, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
*Oh... okay, thanks. I totally forgot about the AT--[[User:Realistic|Realistic]] 08:39, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
* The name of "lightning" has been explicitly used to refer to this ability numerous times, most notably in [[Petrified Lightning]] and [[Four Months Ago]]. When the writers make up a name for an ability we can't just call it something else. We can't say [[Peter Petrelli]]'s name is John Jacobs if we don't like the name Peter Petrelli. The writers are the authority. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 10:12, 19 April 2008 (EDT))
* Of course, when we don't like [[Enhanced vision|the name]] we can call it what we want. {{User:Seclusion/sig}} 10:30, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
** Untrue and the discussion there explains the current decision on a name quite well. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 10:34, 19 April 2008 (EDT))
** But in essence you've hypocrited yourself by saying that if the writers give us a name we have to use it. {{User:Seclusion/sig}} 10:45, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
*** I believe the determination would be that they did not actually give us a name for it yet, but rather used a single term in the story which provides a contradictory description of what her power would be. Now, if it shows up in another graphic novel or the writer explicitly says it's the name of the power in an interview, then it would definitely be changed. Until then the contradiction precludes its usage. With Lightning, we have multiple sources, so while very few of us think it's the best name for the ability, it's the term they've used consistently so there's not much room for interpreting the intentions of the writers when the term was used. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 10:54, 19 April 2008 (EDT))

Latest revision as of 12:39, 18 April 2010

Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources Episodes
Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible
Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine electric manipulation's name.
Source/Explanation
This ability has been explicitly and expertly named by Elle's Assignment Tracker profile.

Highly Confused

I know some people are going to sigh at this but as the title says I'm very confused for several reasons:

1) You've listed Elle's power as Electric Manipulation. Shouldn't this be Electrokinesis (which means creating and conrtollling electricity (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychokinesis#Umbrella_term for an example) just like with Cryo, psycho, tele and pyrokinesis (amongst others).

  • "Electrokinesis", as far as I understand, is a made up term, and is not a real term like "telekinesis" or "pyrokinesis". However, I'm not a language expert, so I can't be positive. Although, I what I am positive about is that Elle's Assignment Tracker 2.0 explicitly lists her ability as "electric manipulation", so that's what we use. Our job here is to archive the information that's given to us, not to figure out something that sounds better or fits better. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:01, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

2) In relation to point 1, some people supported the idea of calling it lightning and cite quotes from the show as proof. I've read some of those quotes. Lightning is a noun, it refers to the product of Electric Manipulation/Electrokinesis. That would be like calling pyrokinesis "Fire".

3) Surely, if Electric Manipulation is to be the name for this power then Electrokinesis shoudl redirect here rather than to the Electric (disambig)

4) Shouldn't electrical absortion come under Electric manipulation since you're basically manipulating electricity?

5) Lastly, why are interviews with writers considered less canonical than what's in the episodes, I'd think it would be the other way around. -- Wiccid 19:15, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

  • Our goal here is not to archive what writers say, but to record what is said in the world of Heroes. In fact, interviews with writers are not canonical at all. They are good secondary and supplementary information, but episodes will always trump what a writer says in an interview, article, commentary, or elsewhere. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:01, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Sylar's immunity to tazers

I think this ability or regeneration is why Sylar is immune to tazers. He wasn't immune before, but it wasn't really shown if he became immune after getting regeneration or this because his only real on-screen tazerings were in Fugitives. I think having this ability makes him immune to electricty, like tazers.--WarGrowlmon18 14:24, 29 September 2009 (EDT)

  • Immediately after gaining claires ability, he is walking down the street and gets tazed without effect. RCR is the source of his immunity.

Gloves

Is it possible to use this ability, or any of the heat abilities, or freezing, if someone had gloves on?--Catalyst · Talk · HL 16:38, 25 October 2009 (EDT)

  • Gloves were used to subdue Tracy, so I think that if they were of special materials, they could be used to restrain the use of such abilities, as long as the evolved human tries to use it via their hands. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:56, 25 October 2009 (EDT)
    • But remember that tracy was still able to shatter out of the gloves eventually. And I'd say, based on a lot of demonstrations, that electric manipulation isn't reliant on the hands.Gamerelite1 14:07, 12 November 2009 (EST)
      • Only eventually, and she also had to build it up. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 14:42, 12 November 2009 (EST)
        • So, with gloves you would by at a clothing store, would someone still be able to fire lightning with them on, without burning their gloves?--Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:07, 12 November 2009 (EST)

Why is this not "Electricity Manipulation?

From what I understand, "Electric manipulation" is manipulation using electricity, which is not what the power is. Electricity Manipulation is more politically-correct. The ability allows its user to manipulate(and also generate) electricity. I guess this has been discussed in the archives but I didn't read it (too long, many posts are pointless). Can anyone explain the reason for naming is as such?--Realistic 08:31, 18 April 2010 (EDT)

  • If you ever want to know where ability names come from, just read the blue box in the top right hand corner of the talk page. It is noted explicitly in the assignment tracker as electric manipulation, so that's what we use. --mc_hammark 08:35, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
  • Oh... okay, thanks. I totally forgot about the AT--Realistic 08:39, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
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