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{{Talk:Electric manipulation/top}}
{|style="padding: 2px; background-color: #BBBBBB; border: 1px solid #FFFFFF; width: 100%;-moz-border-radius:8px; clear: both;"
{{power names|2|eos=This ability has been explicitly and expertly named by [[Elle]]'s [[Assignment Tracker]] profile}}
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|align="left"|[[Image:Archive.jpg|45px]]
|align="center"|<span style="font-size:14px;">The name Lightning, has been given '''on the show''' (see side bar), and is not likely to be changed unless another name is given '''on the show'''.
|align="right"|[[Image:Archive.jpg|45px]]<br>
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{| border="2" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="4" class="wikitable"
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! Archives
! Archived Topics
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| align=center | [[Talk:Lightning/Archive 1|Oct/Nov 2007]] || <small>{{ArchiveLinks|Talk:Lightning/Archive 1}}</small>
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{{power names|1|eos=The name of "lightning" has been explicitly used to refer to this ability numerous times, most notably in ''[[Petrified Lightning]]'' and ''[[Four Months Ago...]]''}}
|}
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==Absolutely, absolutely hate to do this==
Especially with that foreboding template on the page's top, but, just as a suggestion, Joe Pokaski and Aron Eli Coleite call Elle's power "good old electrokinesis" in response to a fan's question [http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12227 here]. The Living Lightning is in reference to a Marvel Comics character who has, in addition to other powers, electrokinesis; this is evidenced by both words being capitalised. I hope I don't get into trouble for this, I only wanted to point it out for the good of the Project and its credibility. [[User:Therequiembellishere|Therequiembellishere]] 00:50, 26 November 2007 (EST)
* This has been discussed at length, so I'll give you the brief answer. :) There are several canonical references to the power as "lightning" which trump the "electrokinesis" reference in the interview. For more detail, check out the archived discussions for this page. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 00:55, 26 November 2007 (EST))
**Hate to say it but i think the creators of the show have a higher say than what Peter would call it... cause Peter just saw that he could throw electric bolts, if it happened to you or me without any prior knowlege we would call it lightning too. But creators actually know what they want it to be... sorry to bring this up again but i really think Electrokinesis takes the cake.--[[User:.Vault|.Vault]] 16:59, 26 November 2007 (EST)
***When information from an interview conflicts with information from an episode, the episode always wins out, no matter what. It doesn't matter what we think about it or whether we like the outcome. Anything which appears in an interview can always be changed by the time it appears in an episode. See [[Help:Sources]] and [[Help:Naming_conventions#Power_Names]]. That said, the writers and producers have ''also'' used "lightning" in interviews and episode commentaries, so even if it came down to a head-to-head conflict between secondary sources, "electrokinesis" is no more "official" than "lightning"--setting aside for the moment that the writers merely repeated the word given to them, and that "lightning" has been used in interviews multiple times.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 17:06, 26 November 2007 (EST)
* i damn right agree with electrokinesis. the same way 'plant growth' should be florakinesis, and 'induced radioactivity' Radiokinesis!
** "Florakinesis" means "flower movement". "Induced radioactivity" appeared in an episode (it's listed in the Genesis files). The ability names listed on AE.org are made up by fans and, frankly, mostly awful.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 16:15, 2 December 2007 (EST)
*** If the writers call it good old electrokinesis why is it still called lightning. [[User:Titan3510|Titan3510]] 17:42, 6 November 2008 (EST)
**** Cause what's used in the show trumps what the writers say according to our [[naming conventions]].--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 18:00, 6 November 2008 (EST)
***** And I'm not a big fan of using a name that is fed to the writers. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 18:46, 6 November 2008 (EST)
****** So what? They didn't have to say "good old electrokinesis". They could have said something else, preferring a different name. Plus, they made an actual reference to a comic character who had the same power. And what is his power called. Electrokinesis. So what's the big deal. I mean, I understand the naming convention for abilities but lightning doesn't accurately describe the ability. Electrokinesis does. Why does pyrokinesis get its name but electrokinesis can't get its name? [[User:Titan3510|Titan3510]] 00:43, 18 November 2008 (EST)
******* I don't know how the name for Flint's power factors into the argument for Elle's power, other than because the name you are vying for shares a suffix. However, the reason both pyrokinesis and lightning are so named is the same: both names were mentioned in episodes. Flint's [[assignment tracker profile]] appeared in ''[[The Butterfly Effect]]'' explicitly naming his power. Had it said "Fire starting", we would have gone with that. Elle's power has been called "lightning" several times on air and in graphic novels. I don't think it's ever been referred to as "electrokinesis" except in an interview where the writers were baited with the term. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 01:19, 18 November 2008 (EST)


==Perhaps==
==Highly Confused==
Perhaps Elle needs both arms active to maintain full control over her power. She was aiming to kill Sylar and hit him dead-center but he only staggers for a second, even through she stunned Peter with much less effort. ---{{User:Seclusion/sig}}19:50, 4 December 2007 (EST)
: I assume she didn't want to kill Sylar, just incapacitate him (and she miscalculated). She used a much higher amount of "lightning" on Peter, because his powers (regeneration, strength, maybe even lightning) made him able to survive much higher voltages.--[[User:Tim Thomason|Tim Thomason]] 18:46, 13 December 2007 (EST)


I know some people are going to sigh at this but as the title says I'm very confused for several reasons:
==difference between Elle's lightning and Peter's==
* I noticed that Peter's lightning has more of a wavy appearance to it while Elle's actually looks like a strike of lightning. Did anyone else notice this? I think it is the same basic principle like West and NAthan's different flying. [[User:Jason Garrick|Jason Garrick]] 16:52, 13 December 2007 (EST)
**I never noticed that. It's certainly possible. Are there any screencaps in particular that highlight the difference? -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 17:07, 13 December 2007 (EST)
*** I actually don't think this is the case, Elle uses her power in a similar fashion to Peter but perhaps due her increased control, it sometimes looks different. [[:Image:Powers elle zaps peter yet again 1.jpg|This one]] she uses it in lightning form. [[:Image:Powers elle zaps peter.jpg|This one]], [[:Image:Die dam it.jpg|this one]], [[:Image:Take this.jpg|and this one]], however don't use it in that fashion. [[:Image:Quiet.jpg|This one]] doesn't have any real difference to Elle using it. I think its all power development tbh. {{User:Seclusion/sig}}17:48, 13 December 2007 (EST)
**** There is a possibility that there is a difference, but it's nothing significant. Peter, Ted, and Sylar have all glowed different colors. They're just creative differences.--[[User:Ice Vision|Ice Vision]] 19:19, 13 December 2007 (EST)
*****Yeah, I checked. Your right. Peter only has wavy lightning twice. Once at Ricky's pub and once when he shot Adam. After that it is just like Elle's. [[User:Jason Garrick|Jason Garrick]] 19:45, 14 December 2007 (EST)
******I think it may be intentional - Isn't everyone with a (visible) power supposed to manifest it in different ways? Hence West having a different style of flight from Nathan, induced radioactivity appearing differently for Pete/Ted/Sylar/Amid, Angela (assuming she has [[persuasion]]) having to touch a person whilst Eden does not etc. - [[User:Goldenboy|Goldenboy]] 16:12, 18 December 2007 (EST)
*******Angela what now? -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 18:53, 18 December 2007 (EST)
*******Angela? Angela Petrelli. - [[User:Goldenboy|Goldenboy]] 12:48, 19 December 2007 (EST)
******** Angela has no confirmed power. --{{User:Ice Vision/sig}} 13:01, 19 December 2007 (EST)
******** The "touch" aspect of it, at least, has been confirmed to be Cristine Rose's doing, and not in the script. As for "persuasion"--well, people ''actually did'' what Eden told them. People have a pretty spotty record of doing what Angela tells them. She's manipulative, but doesn't seem to be superhumanly so.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 13:28, 19 December 2007 (EST)
*There are different types of lightning in the real world, too: ball lightning, sheet lightning, ribbon lightning... There's no 'right or wrong' way to portray a lightning bolt, as long as it gets the job done. Regardless of how the lightning bolt forms, it's still a conducting of electrons along an ion path. Why do we have to assume that this power always forms the path in the same way? That doesn't even happen in nature. --[[User:Yamawhata?|Yamawhata?]] 17:10, 4 February 2008 (EST)
*Considering the list of the ways Peter controls his lightning, is it fair to say that he lacks the fine control Elle has? Certainly, she has more control, but it seems he has the ability under pretty good wraps himself. [[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 12:50, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
** "Peter lacks the fine control Elle has" is speculative. "Peter has not demonstrated the fine control Elle has" is not. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 16:14, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
*** Well, I'm not sure it's true, considering he's shown almost every form of control. But since it currently reads 'lacks,' which is speculative, I'll change just that. [[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 18:02, 5 October 2008 (EDT)


1) You've listed Elle's power as Electric Manipulation. Shouldn't this be Electrokinesis (which means creating and conrtollling electricity (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychokinesis#Umbrella_term for an example) just like with Cryo, psycho, tele and pyrokinesis (amongst others).
== name change ==
* "Electrokinesis", as far as I understand, is a made up term, and is not a real term like "telekinesis" or "pyrokinesis". However, I'm not a language expert, so I can't be positive. Although, I what I am positive about is that Elle's [[Assignment Tracker 2.0]] explicitly lists her ability as "electric manipulation", so that's what we use. Our job here is to archive the information that's given to us, not to figure out something that sounds better or fits better. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 20:01, 31 May 2009 (EDT)


2) In relation to point 1, some people supported the idea of calling it lightning and cite quotes from the show as proof. I've read some of those quotes. Lightning is a noun, it refers to the product of Electric Manipulation/Electrokinesis. That would be like calling pyrokinesis "Fire".
sorry but i disagree lightning is a good name for this power electric generation or electricity generation definately sounds better, besides for many people they might get confused by the power lightning , which may diffirent interpretations , i saw her power the name definately should be called electric generation or electricity generation--[[User:Zoga78|Zoga78]] 19:25, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
*no --[[User:Piemanmoo|Piemanmoo]] 05:48, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
* Peter calls it lightning in the show so that's the name that is used.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 19:33, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
** But when [[Peter]] calls it lightning in the [[Walls, Part 2|future]], we call it [[Electromagnetism]]? -[[User:Level|Lөv]][[User talk:Level|ө]][[Special:Contributions/Level|l]] 03:03, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
*** Well, yes, but for reason similar to the "telescopic vision" debate. The agent can hover ''and'' produce lightning; Peter's only referring to the latter aspect. "Lightning" describes an aspect, but not all, of his power, the same way "telescopic vision" describes an aspect, but not all, of Donna's power, or "teleportation" describes an aspect, but not all, of Hiro's power, or "wipe" describes an aspect, but not all, of the Haitian's power. A canon name for a part of a power is not a canon name for the whole power.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 13:15, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
**** [[Wikipedia:Ball lightning|Ball lightning]] hovers, electricity can [[Wikipedia:Electrostatic levitation|levitate]] in other ways. These are property of electricity and can be covered by "[[Wikipedia:lightning|lightning]]" as much as [[:Image:Powers elle fistful of lightning.jpg|some]] [[:Image:Powers elle zaps peter yet again 1.jpg|of]] [[:Image:I could make you.jpg|the]] [[:Image:Powers elle ball lightning.jpg|things]] [[Elle]] [[:Image:Precision.jpg|does]]. More discussion here: [[Talk:Electromagnetism]]. -[[User:Level|Lөv]][[User talk:Level|ө]][[Special:Contributions/Level|l]] 14:08, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
* The name of "lightning" has been explicitly used to refer to this ability numerous times, most notably in [[Petrified Lightning]] and [[Four Months Ago]]. When the writers make up a name for an ability we can't just call it something else. We can't say [[Peter Petrelli]]'s name is John Jacobs if we don't like the name Peter Petrelli. The writers are the authority. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 10:12, 19 April 2008 (EDT))
* Of course, when we don't like [[Enhanced vision|the name]] we can call it what we want. {{User:Seclusion/sig}} 10:30, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
** Untrue and the discussion there explains the current decision on a name quite well. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 10:34, 19 April 2008 (EDT))
** But in essence you've hypocrited yourself by saying that if the writers give us a name we have to use it. {{User:Seclusion/sig}} 10:45, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
*** I believe the determination would be that they did not actually give us a name for it yet, but rather used a single term in the story which provides a contradictory description of what her power would be. Now, if it shows up in another graphic novel or the writer explicitly says it's the name of the power in an interview, then it would definitely be changed. Until then the contradiction precludes its usage. With Lightning, we have multiple sources AND the name doesn't contradict the demonstrations of the ability we've seen thus far, so while very few of us think it's the best name for the ability, it's the term they've used consistently so there's not much room for interpreting the intentions of the writers when the term was used. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 10:54, 19 April 2008 (EDT))
**** I agree with Zoga. The release of [[the Company]]'s AT [http://www.primatechpaper.com/AT_2.0/at_map_file.php map] describes Elle's ability as "the ability to genereate electricity" not lightning. Also, lightning implies a weather based electrical shock looking at the uses of the power I think the writers just find it a cool and easy way of describing the ability. I'd go with Electricity Generation that seems to be the most direct and canon term.
***** Actually, the term used in the episodes (more than once) is lightning. Episodes are [[canon]] sources, and trump near-canon sources like the [[Assignment Tracker]] map. Good suggestions, but we'll stick with lightning unless something else is said in a canon source. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 09:03, 7 August 2008 (EDT)


3) Surely, if Electric Manipulation is to be the name for this power then Electrokinesis shoudl redirect here rather than to the [[Electric (disambig)]]


4) Shouldn't electrical absortion come under Electric manipulation since you're basically manipulating electricity?
== Is these the ability of future Ando? ==


5) Lastly, why are interviews with writers considered less canonical than what's in the episodes, I'd think it would be the other way around. -- [[User:Wiccid|Wiccid]] 19:15, 31 May 2009 (EDT)
I don't think that lightning is the ability of Ando. First, the ability of ando is red, and it isn't like Elle's sparks. what do you think?
* Our goal here is not to archive what writers say, but to record what is said in the world of ''Heroes''. In fact, interviews with writers are not [[canon]]ical at all. They are good secondary and supplementary information, but episodes will always trump what a writer says in an interview, article, commentary, or elsewhere. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 20:01, 31 May 2009 (EDT)
* [[Flint]] has a different color of [[pyrokinesis]], so it's not that far-fetched. As for the way it sparked, it could be just a different evolution of lightning. --[[User:NellaBishop|NellaBishop]] 15:40, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
** It's common knowledge that fire can change colors based on heat or chemicals. But as far as I know, there's nothing that can turn lightning red so I don't think we can be sure that Ando's ability is the same as Elle's. It seems too speculative to me. --[[User:Watchmaker|Watchmaker]] 21:55, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
*** You're forgetting that sometimes Heroes does things to look cool, rather than make sense. (Remember the voice effects in season one?) I think that Future Ando definitely has a form of lightning.
**** It hasn't been confirmed that Ando's ability is the same as Elle's (or perhaps that [[agent (electromagnetism)|future agent's]] or that [[teenage patient]]'s). Until we learn more about the ability, let's not add it to this page. I don't think there's anything wrong with making a page for [[Ando's ability]], though. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 17:11, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
***** Honestly, I'm good with calling it Lightning until we have evidence that it's something else. Apart from the color, it looks like lightning, and I don't think a simple color difference is enought to warrant a new power page. --[[User:Ted C|Ted C]] 17:45, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
****** I think its just a different colored lighting too, but lightning none the less (is there an special page for Flints power vs. Merediths power)....if you look at the image close up you can see bolt shapes around his hands...maybe we should take a poll?--[[User:Anthony Gooch|Anthony Gooch]] 21:44, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
******* There's no Flint vs. Meredith debate because both of their abilities have been officially called [[pyrokinesis]]--[[User:Aburu|Aburu]] 22:31, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
*******plus if we are wrong, then we could simply change it, but i doubt that the writers are going back into the future just to explain Ando's power for viewers
<center>[[image:Ando's power.jpg]]</center>


== Sylar's immunity to tazers ==
==I understand that Lightning is canon...==
But "Lightning" is far too general. Lightning...what? Manipulation? Generation? Absorption? I think we should change the name to '''"Lightning Generation"''', since it accurately describes the power, follows the canon description, and is far more specific than just "Lightning". What do you guys think? ~~ [[User:Darmenos|Darmenos]] 21:25, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
*I know what you mean, but the reasons for it just outweigh fan ideas. I mean, if we could change [[Puppet master]] I'm sure we would in a heartbeat. --[[User:Aburu|Aburu]] 22:28, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
*Yes, but that's explicitly named canon, so we're stuck with it. "Lightning" was a canon description, iirc. I just don't think it fully describes or defines the ability. ~~ [[User:Darmenos|Darmenos]] 10:23, 23 October 2008 (EDT)


I think this ability or regeneration is why Sylar is immune to tazers. He wasn't immune before, but it wasn't really shown if he became immune after getting regeneration or this because his only real on-screen tazerings were in Fugitives. I think having this ability makes him immune to electricty, like tazers.--[[User:WarGrowlmon18|WarGrowlmon18]] 14:24, 29 September 2009 (EDT)
== Electric manipulation ==
*Immediately after gaining claires ability, he is walking down the street and gets tazed without effect. RCR is the source of his immunity.


== Gloves ==
[[Image:AT diagram Elle.jpg|thumb|right]]
According to the [[:Image:AT diagram Elle.jpg|diagram]] found on [[Elle]]'s [[assignment tracker profile]], her ability's name is "electric manipulation". Even though they've referred to the power several times as "lightning" in canon and near-canon sources, I think the assignment tracker profile is more explicit. I'm all for the rename from "lightning" to "electric manipulation". -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 13:14, 26 November 2008 (EST)
*Me too. God we're gonna replace so many links... [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 13:30, 26 November 2008 (EST)
** Links wouldn't need to be replaced since both names have been used. [[Lightning]] would still be a valid name for the ability, much like [[super strength]] and [[enhanced strength]] have both been used to describe the same power. Only explicit links (like on [[Portal:Abilities]], [[List of abilities]], or in [[Elle]]'s infobox) would have to be updated. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 13:37, 26 November 2008 (EST)
** Why would we take a lower canon source over a higher one? Isn't that a dangerous precedent to set? --[[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 13:34, 26 November 2008 (EST)
*** I only remembered the term lightning being used in [[Petrified Lightning]], when was it used in Four Months Ago? [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 13:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)
**** See [http://heroes-transcripts.blogspot.com/search/label/Four%20Months%20Ago... the transcript]--Peter says, "Maybe there's more to you than the whole sadistic lightning thing". Full disclosure: In ''[[Fight or Flight]]'', Caitlin says, "How do you shoot lightning from your hands?" In ''[[Kindred]]'', Peter tries to activate the power by saying "Lightning" repeatedly and Caitlin says, "It's a shame you can't order lightning up like a plate of chips." The question is, are these descriptions or the name of the power? Either way, do we use "lightning" (from a canon source, but not necessarily explicit, and not from people who understand the powers) or do we use "electric manipulation" (explicitly and authoritatively named by the Company, but not from a near canon source)? -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 13:58, 26 November 2008 (EST)
**** It's been used on the show a few times. That's really the debate...Do we use a canon name that's been applied to the ability, or do we use a near-canon source that is more explicit? -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 13:38, 26 November 2008 (EST)
***** I would be happy to see it renamed that way, '''AND''' even more happy to see this power's cousins ([[electrical absorption]], and [[electromagnetism]]) all three merged into the new name '''Electrical Manipulation'''; for that is what they all do, just in different ways of manipulating electricity. <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 11/26/2008 13:42 (EST)</small>
** I would rather keep the show name than switch to a near-canon source. The show did refer to the ability as "lightning". I don't see the assignment tracker as being more explicit in this case.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 13:50, 26 November 2008 (EST)
*I agree with Miamivolts. On the one hand, the assignment trackers are valuable sources for things we won't see in the show. On the other, they're not exactly kept up to date, so I'm not sure how much we can trust them (eg - I doubt Parkman's control index is still at 25%, and I don't think it updates when people are deceased). I can't get into Elle's A.T. to see what it says, but electrical manipulation implies ''far more'' (to me) than simply firing lightning (or electricity) out of one's hands. All we've seen Elle do is shoot things with bolts of electricity...we haven't seen her manuipulate electrical signals, turn machines that require electricity on or off, etc. And what are the criteria for specific naming as opposed to 'applying' (ie - why wouldn't her ability being referred to as lightning not qualify as an explicit naming)? I think we should stick to the naming conventions and say that canon trumps all, though I'm certainly ready to be swayed as to why this should not be so. :) --[[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 13:59, 26 November 2008 (EST)
* Now that I think about it, regardless of what we decide, both names should be referenced somewhere on the page, as both are pertinent. I'll throw out the suggestion of using the canon name as the name of the ability, but adding electrical manipulation (or whatever else in other similar cases) in the initial description of the power as an 'also known as.' --[[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 14:11, 26 November 2008 (EST)
* Well, the argument of people who don't exactly know about the ability (Peter, Caitlin) and people who do (AT) does push me towards electric manipulation. About Elle not using her abilities in another way, think about it, all the times we heard someone talking about the trials Bob did on her, there was always a mention to "see how much" she could put out, this leads me to believe that due to those, Elle just worked on the offensive aspect of her ability, if she was as unstable as she told Peter in Four Months Ago, building up non offensive use of her ability doesn't sound like something she'd do. [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 15:27, 26 November 2008 (EST)
**I am thinking Electrokinesis, it is a eaiser way to say Electic Manipulation. [[User:Raiku|Raiku]] 16:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)
***Oh God, not the -kinesis powers... *shudders* [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 16:43, 26 November 2008 (EST)
*I think it should be changed to Electric Manipulation, because we changed super strength based on Knox's profile name. [[User:Samstorey]] 22:51, 26 November 2008
** Knox's assignment tracker was shown in the show, and so is actually canon, whereas those that are posted on the Internet are only near-canon. --[[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 22:26, 26 November 2008 (EST)
*** It wasn't fair that we changed Super Strength, when that has been named multiple times on the show, so I vote for Electric Manipulation! Peter and Caitlin are not reliable sources for naming abilities or Peter's should be called Ability Absorption. --[[User:Powermimic|Powermimic]] 03:50, 27 November 2008 (EST)
*Electric manipulation FTW! (NOT ELECTROKINESIS!) [[User:Psilaq Remake|Psilaq Remake]] 19:45, 26 November 2008 (EST)
*Aww, I've kinda grown fond of lightning. It was nice to be different amongst all the other ''Heroes'' fans that used "electrokinesis" or something like that. But I wouldn't mind the rename. :P <small>'''Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ [[User:Thrashmeister|U]] | [[User_talk:Thrashmeister|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Thrashmeister|C]] ]'''</small> 19:50, 26 November 2008 (EST)
*I am desperate for a rename with this. The AT, even though it is a lower canon source, is still largely canon, i.e. the show's creators wanted us to see it and use their ability names. Why would they put 'Electric Manipulation' on an assignment tracker if they still wanted us using 'lightning?' It seems reduntant. -- [[User:FlamingTomDude|FlamingTomDude]] 20:15, 26 November 2008 (EST)
*Here are some reason why we should change it:
: Gravitational manipulation, named "create vortexes" on the show - but we changed it.
: Puppet master, never named only described on the show - yet we can't add a 'y' to the end of it.
: Enhanced Strength, super strength has been said many times - but we changed it.
: Power absorption, he steals powers - but we called it what the assignment map wrote.
If we're going to follow the assignment tracker for those, we should change it. --[[User:Powermimic|Powermimic]] 04:15, 27 November 2008 (EST)
* It depends on whether you consider 'lightning' a description or a name.
# 'Creating vortexes' seems more of a description than a name (at least to me).
# No name was given on the show for Eric's ability, so we go with the next best source that does name it, namely the A.T.
# Enhanced strength was used on the show as well, namely on Knox's assignment tracker. As long as he and Niki are grouped as having the same ability, we can apply it to her too. In this case, we have a conflict of equal canon sources (the show), and so have to determine which is more valid. It's Micah vs the Company, so we go with the Company, since they likely know more about the ability.
# We were never told what Arthur's ability was called on the show, so we have no canon name for it. --[[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 10:01, 27 November 2008 (EST)
*People aren't posting. Time to vote, then? [[User:Psilaq Remake|Psilaq Remake]] 12:55, 29 November 2008 (EST)


Is it possible to use this ability, or any of the heat abilities, or freezing, if someone had gloves on?--{{User:Catalyst/sig}} 16:38, 25 October 2009 (EDT)
== Suggested rename. ==
*Gloves were used to subdue Tracy, so I think that if they were of special materials, they could be used to restrain the use of such abilities, as long as the evolved human tries to use it via their hands. [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 16:56, 25 October 2009 (EDT)
**But remember that tracy was still able to shatter out of the gloves eventually. And I'd say, based on a lot of demonstrations, that electric manipulation isn't reliant on the hands.[[User:Gamerelite1|Gamerelite1]] 14:07, 12 November 2009 (EST)
***Only eventually, and she also had to build it up. [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 14:42, 12 November 2009 (EST)
****So, with gloves you would by at a clothing store, would someone still be able to fire lightning with them on, without burning their gloves?--{{User:Catalyst/sig}} 17:07, 12 November 2009 (EST)
*****Depending on the glove... [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 17:15, 12 November 2009 (EST)
==Why is this not "Electricity Manipulation?==


From what I understand, "Electric manipulation" is manipulation using electricity, which is not what the power is. Electricity Manipulation is more politically-correct. The ability allows its user to manipulate(and also generate) electricity. I guess this has been discussed in the archives but I didn't read it (too long, many posts are pointless). Can anyone explain the reason for naming is as such?--[[User:Realistic|Realistic]] 08:31, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
Only making a new section for this because it's important. It's a waste to change the page until the Assignment Tracker is released. The diagram has not always used the actual name (See Stephen Canfield's for an example. His ability is Gravitational Manipulation, whereas his diagram says Gravitational Field Manipulation, amongst others.)--[[User:Riddler|Riddler]] 23:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)
*If you ever want to know where ability names come from, just read the blue box in the top right hand corner of the talk page. It is noted explicitly in the assignment tracker as electric manipulation, so that's what we use. --[[User:Mc hammark|mc_hammark]] 08:35, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
:The name debate will probably be lost and forgotten during the Thanksgiving frenzy, so I have no problem with this. <small>'''Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ [[User:Thrashmeister|U]] | [[User_talk:Thrashmeister|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Thrashmeister|C]] ]'''</small> 23:42, 26 November 2008 (EST)
*Oh... okay, thanks. I totally forgot about the AT--[[User:Realistic|Realistic]] 08:39, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
I also wanted to state that we should not be moving ''down'' levels of canon without '''very''' good reason. The requirements stated in the note at the top of the page have not been met by the A.T., and won't be when it comes out, unless it's presented in an episode. --[[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 11:11, 27 November 2008 (EST)
*I would suggest people read [[Help talk:Naming conventions#Conflicting sources|a discussion]] myself and Ryan had about this. In it, both of us flesh out why the assignment trackers should be valued over canon sources. Mainly, the Company and Mohinder scientifically name abilities, whereas someone like Peter naming an ability may not be the most expert opinion. I'd prefer going with canon sources, but since the name is derived by Peter, whereas the AT name is from the Company, I'd go with the AT name. --{{User:Baldbobbo/sig}} 19:30, 27 November 2008 (EST)
** ... especially because Peter called it "lightning" when he first had it and didn't understand it. In fact, he only referred to it as "lightning" when he was specifically talking about his frustrations in understanding and using it. I think it's been a great name up to now, but when we're given something as specific as "electric manipulation" from an expert in the field (like the Company), we should respect that. In the end, I don't care too much and I won't have too much to say on the matter, but I think it's a bigger issue we need to address--that explicit names in near-canon sources should take precedence over descriptions given in canon sources. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 20:09, 27 November 2008 (EST)
*** Regarding a new name for 'lightning', I see this as a different situation than what Ryan just claimed. Lightning exists as an ongoing phenomenon in nature, and it has been used as an explicit term in the show for the ability's name on more than one occasion. Thus, I don't see it as an explicit vs. descriptive name case, and think this is a case of explicit vs. explicit name so I support continuing to use 'lightning' for this ability's name.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 00:46, 28 November 2008 (EST)
*** Regarding Bob's comment, he left out that I also participated in that [[Help talk:Naming conventions#Conflicting sources|discussion]] and strongly opposed overruling sources of higher canonicity. Please continue reading into the [[Help_talk:Naming_conventions#Hierarchy_redux|next section]] where I clarified Ryan's and Bob's position and then gave my reasons against it. Thanks.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 00:46, 28 November 2008 (EST)
**** Agreed. With regards to lightning specifically, it was actually referenced in that discussion, and was agreed upon by all parties involved to that point that [[Peter]] was naming it, not describing it, which is why it trumped the [[assignment tracker map]] to begin with, so I'm not sure why a specific [[assignment tracker]] would change things (side note: are individual assignment trackers more canonical than the assignment tracker map?). With regards to the overall discussion of canonicity, my opinion is [[Help talk:Naming conventions#Canonicity revisited|here]]. :) --[[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 01:42, 28 November 2008 (EST)
***** Regarding the side note question: As it stands now, the AT and the AT map are both part of Heroes Evolutions, so are both considered near-canon.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 02:08, 28 November 2008 (EST)

== Rename Consensus ==
We should probably wait for a consensus until, you know, the assignment tracker page is actually released. Discussion is one thing, a consensus check is another. :) -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 16:05, 29 November 2008 (EST)
* Sorry, I've never been the one to start consensus checks before, so I really wasn't sure if this was the appropriate time or not. <small>'''Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ [[User:Thrashmeister|U]] | [[User_talk:Thrashmeister|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Thrashmeister|C]] ]'''</small> 16:13, 29 November 2008 (EST)
** I added a new voting section that should rectify the gun-jumping a little bit... <small>'''Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ [[User:Thrashmeister|U]] | [[User_talk:Thrashmeister|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Thrashmeister|C]] ]'''</small> 16:15, 29 November 2008 (EST)
** No worries. [[#Electric manipulation|I kinda did the same thing]]. :) -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 16:18, 29 November 2008 (EST)

<u>'''Lightning'''</u> (keep the name as it is)<Br />
#<strike>--[[User:Riddler|Riddler]] 16:00, 29 November 2008 (EST) - Wait until Elle's tracker is released, or else we'll have to change everything again. See my above post.</strike>
# I'm not convinced that the name given in the show is a description and not an actual name, and the only reason (imo) we should ''ever'' move down a level of canon should be based on absolutely definitive information. I'll still be glad to listen to reasoning otherwise (or examples of when we've done that before), but for now I say we stick with what we have from the show itself. --[[User:Stevehim|Stevehim]] 18:54, 29 November 2008 (EST)
# Agree with Stevehim's reasons as I previously explained. I also think this consensus check is premature and ill-advised as others have stated/implied.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 01:25, 30 November 2008 (EST)

<u>'''Electric manipulation'''</u> (change the name '''now''')
#<s><small>'''Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ [[User:Thrashmeister|U]] | [[User_talk:Thrashmeister|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Thrashmeister|C]] ]'''</small> 16:03, 29 November 2008 (EST) Whether or not it's changed now or changed when the profile is actually released (I'm fine either way), it should be changed.</s>
#:When I say wait, I say that because we don't know if "Electric manipulation" will be the name. It will just be a waste of time and effort.--[[User:Riddler|Riddler]] 16:04, 29 November 2008 (EST)
#::Well, they've released that power diagram already. I don't really see any reason why they should change it if they already have that. <small>'''Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ [[User:Thrashmeister|U]] | [[User_talk:Thrashmeister|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Thrashmeister|C]] ]'''</small> 16:05, 29 November 2008 (EST)
#:::::[[Gravitational manipulation|Gravitational field manipulation]] (this is my main point), [[Acid secretion|Corrosive fluid generation]], [[Electronic communication|Cyberpathy/Technokinesis]] (Also known as), [[Telescopic vision|Enhanced visual cortex]] (Enhanced vision), [[Intuitive aptitude|Acquisition]], [[Plant manipulation|Regeneration]] (listed as By product), [[Appearance alteration|Adaptive Appearance Manifestation]] (another good one), [[Enhanced memory|Eidetic memory]], [[Telepathy|Extra sensory perception]]. Some of these aren't the best examples, but you get the idea. Connie and Stephen specifically have different names in the diagram then they do explicitly named.--[[User:Riddler|Riddler]] 16:19, 29 November 2008 (EST)
#::: Actually, they haven't released the diagram. That image was obtained as a result of hacking. Plus, there have been times (very few, but they still exist) when the name on the diagram does not match the name on the assignment tracker. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 16:07, 29 November 2008 (EST)



<u>'''Electric manipulation (or otherwise)'''</u> (change the name, regardless of what it is, '''when the tracker is actually released''')
#<small>'''Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ [[User:Thrashmeister|U]] | [[User_talk:Thrashmeister|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Thrashmeister|C]] ]'''</small> 16:13, 29 November 2008 (EST) - RGS and Riddler bring up good points; we should wait until the tracker is released. But I do think that whatever name is listed on the tracker should be the new name of lightning once the time comes.
#[[User:Psilaq Remake|Psilaq Remake]] 16:16, 29 November 2008 (EST) I agree.
# Totally agree. Explicit names in near canon sources should take precedence over descriptive names in canon sources. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 16:18, 29 November 2008 (EST)
#--[[User:Riddler|Riddler]] 16:20, 29 November 2008 (EST) Though, not to sound offensive, this consensus is useless right now.
# Lightning generation seems like a good name because just saying i have the power of lightning doesnt entirely seem correct. Isnt the laser man in doyles graphic novel name laser generation? Why couldnt this be lightning generation[[User:345tom|345tom]] 17:07, 29 November 2008 (EST)
#:I fail to see how that's relevant... that's not what we're discussing here. <small>'''Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ [[User:Thrashmeister|U]] | [[User_talk:Thrashmeister|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Thrashmeister|C]] ]'''</small> 17:11, 29 November 2008 (EST)
# Assignment Tracker made our jobs easier, let's seize what it can give us. --[[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 17:31, 29 November 2008 (EST)
# The AT trumps all, in my opinion. It should get a special 0th status on the naming conventions above everything else.--[[User:Piemanmoo|Piemanmoo]] 22:47, 29 November 2008 (EST)
# [[User:FlamingTomDude|FlamingTomDude]] -- I'm up for waiting until the AT is released. At least then we can be 100% sure about it.

Latest revision as of 12:39, 18 April 2010

Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources Episodes
Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible
Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine electric manipulation's name.
Source/Explanation
This ability has been explicitly and expertly named by Elle's Assignment Tracker profile.

Highly Confused

I know some people are going to sigh at this but as the title says I'm very confused for several reasons:

1) You've listed Elle's power as Electric Manipulation. Shouldn't this be Electrokinesis (which means creating and conrtollling electricity (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychokinesis#Umbrella_term for an example) just like with Cryo, psycho, tele and pyrokinesis (amongst others).

  • "Electrokinesis", as far as I understand, is a made up term, and is not a real term like "telekinesis" or "pyrokinesis". However, I'm not a language expert, so I can't be positive. Although, I what I am positive about is that Elle's Assignment Tracker 2.0 explicitly lists her ability as "electric manipulation", so that's what we use. Our job here is to archive the information that's given to us, not to figure out something that sounds better or fits better. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:01, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

2) In relation to point 1, some people supported the idea of calling it lightning and cite quotes from the show as proof. I've read some of those quotes. Lightning is a noun, it refers to the product of Electric Manipulation/Electrokinesis. That would be like calling pyrokinesis "Fire".

3) Surely, if Electric Manipulation is to be the name for this power then Electrokinesis shoudl redirect here rather than to the Electric (disambig)

4) Shouldn't electrical absortion come under Electric manipulation since you're basically manipulating electricity?

5) Lastly, why are interviews with writers considered less canonical than what's in the episodes, I'd think it would be the other way around. -- Wiccid 19:15, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

  • Our goal here is not to archive what writers say, but to record what is said in the world of Heroes. In fact, interviews with writers are not canonical at all. They are good secondary and supplementary information, but episodes will always trump what a writer says in an interview, article, commentary, or elsewhere. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:01, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Sylar's immunity to tazers

I think this ability or regeneration is why Sylar is immune to tazers. He wasn't immune before, but it wasn't really shown if he became immune after getting regeneration or this because his only real on-screen tazerings were in Fugitives. I think having this ability makes him immune to electricty, like tazers.--WarGrowlmon18 14:24, 29 September 2009 (EDT)

  • Immediately after gaining claires ability, he is walking down the street and gets tazed without effect. RCR is the source of his immunity.

Gloves

Is it possible to use this ability, or any of the heat abilities, or freezing, if someone had gloves on?--Catalyst · Talk · HL 16:38, 25 October 2009 (EDT)

  • Gloves were used to subdue Tracy, so I think that if they were of special materials, they could be used to restrain the use of such abilities, as long as the evolved human tries to use it via their hands. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:56, 25 October 2009 (EDT)
    • But remember that tracy was still able to shatter out of the gloves eventually. And I'd say, based on a lot of demonstrations, that electric manipulation isn't reliant on the hands.Gamerelite1 14:07, 12 November 2009 (EST)
      • Only eventually, and she also had to build it up. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 14:42, 12 November 2009 (EST)
        • So, with gloves you would by at a clothing store, would someone still be able to fire lightning with them on, without burning their gloves?--Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:07, 12 November 2009 (EST)

Why is this not "Electricity Manipulation?

From what I understand, "Electric manipulation" is manipulation using electricity, which is not what the power is. Electricity Manipulation is more politically-correct. The ability allows its user to manipulate(and also generate) electricity. I guess this has been discussed in the archives but I didn't read it (too long, many posts are pointless). Can anyone explain the reason for naming is as such?--Realistic 08:31, 18 April 2010 (EDT)

  • If you ever want to know where ability names come from, just read the blue box in the top right hand corner of the talk page. It is noted explicitly in the assignment tracker as electric manipulation, so that's what we use. --mc_hammark 08:35, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
  • Oh... okay, thanks. I totally forgot about the AT--Realistic 08:39, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
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