Theory talk:Abilities by Dr. Suresh's category

Hmm, I had hoped this would be more balanced in terms of categories. It would be better if I combined the 'atoms and matter' and 'waves' categories, but that would differ from Dr. Suresh's categories.--MiamiVolts (talk) 21:57, 12 August 2007 (EDT)

• This is a nice page. I like it. I do have a few suggestions, however. Wouldn't intuitive aptitude go under mental? Sylar's gifted understanding of "how thinks work" is a mental thing. And, illusion, would it go under manipulation of waves? Micah theorizes that Candice's ability stems from bending light (Landslide), and light exhibits properties of waves. I guess you could classify telekinesis as manipulation of atoms and matter, but I've always thought of it as a mental power, and it is commonly referred to as one. I think it's fine as it is, though. Here are some ideas for additions:

1. Physical- adoptive muscle memory, perhaps replication?
2. Atoms and matter- alchemy
3. Elements- the classical element of water, water mimicry

Altogether, well done. :)--Ice Vision 23:59, 6 December 2007 (EST)

• It seems you got there before me.--Ice Vision 00:02, 7 December 2007 (EST)
  • Yeah, I was updating as you were writing your comment, I guess.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:00, 7 December 2007 (EST)
  • Regarding illusion, my opinion is that Candice refuted Micah's theory after he asked her about it point blank. So I left illusion as mental as I trust Candice's description more than Micah's. Candice replied that she could make Micah see whatever she wanted. If she meant that literally, then even if Micah closed his eyes I think Candice would be able to force images into his head. That would make it more of a visual telepathy power with the restriction that all of the images need to come from her head (not the subject's). As further proof, I note that the illusion power was not captured on film until Five Years Gone, and even then it is conceivable that Sylar (as President), ordered the media to use a special camera filter that altered his appearance.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:00, 7 December 2007 (EST)
  • Regarding telekinesis, almost any power can be considered mental, though Sylar describes it as "moving things[matter] with his mind".--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:00, 7 December 2007 (EST)
    • Good point with Candice, I'm going to have to agree with that. True, almost any power can be considered mental, but the reason I thought telekinesis should be was because Sylar says that he can "move things with his mind." Your reasons are valid, and it isn't that big of a deal, so either way is fine with me.--Ice Vision 01:11, 7 December 2007 (EST)
      • For what it's worth, Joe Pokaski and Aron Coleite grouped telepathy and illusion together as sort of cousins of one another, with the opportunity to actually evolve into the same power. See here. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:24, 7 December 2007 (EST)
        • Thanks, that's a cool reference, Ryan! As for telekinesis being in the matter category, something else that may be of note is that when he is cutting victim's heads open, Sylar appears to be using his telekinesis on a molecular scale.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:31, 7 December 2007 (EST)

Molecular tk?

Although Sylar might be doing that, I don't think a molecular scale is necessary. It seems reasonable for Sylar to use telekinesis to rip the skin like how I would rip a sheet of paper in half. I don't need to work at a molecular level to make one sheet of paper two, and I don't think Sylar needs to either. Thoughts?--Ice Vision 15:14, 7 December 2007 (EST)

• I don't see it as ripping. It's more of a molecular slicing, imho, because he is penetrating the skull and that is bone, not just skin. I think that point was made rather clear when Sylar sliced off the top of James Walker's head, in which Sylar had to deal not only with cutting through James's skull all the way through, but to do it on a frozen body. Also, when Sylar is cutting into the skin, it doesn't sag or stretch, as you would expect from a rip and tear... Sylar's cuts into Peter and Ted are good examples of this.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:58, 7 December 2007 (EST)
  • Well, even if Sylar does penetrate the skull, it doesn't mean that he does so at a molecular level. If Sylar has enough control over his power, which he does, he should be able to cleanly cut almost any object. I compare it to slicing a watermelon (I know that watermelons are not the same as human heads). You can take a knife and cut a watermelon without making a big mess. One thing you have to do is to cut slowly, and Sylar does that. Also, when Sylar cuts Peter, a piece of Peter's hair falls to the ground. It's as if Sylar used an invisible knife. Such a cut would indeed require working at a very small level, but would not require molecular level. In my opinion, molecular is just "way too small".--Ice Vision 16:24, 7 December 2007 (EST)
    • Like you said, watermelons are not the same as human heads. It's a lot tougher to cut through bone, thus my thought is that Sylar should make a much bigger mess than he does if he's not using tk on an ultra-small level, and you seem to agree about that, and that's why I consider it a form of matter manipulation. Whether it operates on the molecular/atomic level or just the microscopic level is not relevant; they are both really *really* small.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:40, 7 December 2007 (EST)
      • Right, I understand what you're saying, and I agree with that. It's just that Sylar seems to have a lot of control over his telekinesis. Telekinesis is Sylar's most used power, and it's basically what makes him so powerful. Not to mention, in Powerless, Peter breaks open the unbreakable the vault door with his mind. What I'm saying is, so much skill and mastery over an already powerful power should allow Sylar work at any "level" with ease, even if it is at a "non-molecular", yet small, scope. Anyways, I want to thank you for participating in this small discussion. Sharing ideas with one another is awesome. Thanks again! :)--Ice Vision 20:43, 7 December 2007 (EST)
        • You're welcome. It's an interesting topic. When Sylar slices people open I think he's using his power on matter at a ultra-small level. When he moves the spinach can, he's working on a medium scale. And when he flipped the FBI truck transporting Ted, he was using it on a large scale. I wonder, though, just how strong his power is. Could he move the moon if he tried?--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:45, 7 December 2007 (EST)
          • Maybe he can, but he would have to fight against the Earth's gravity.--Ice Vision 23:20, 7 December 2007 (EST)
            • Yeah, he would have to fight the Earth's gravity, but he might be strong enough now. That would definately make for an interesting storyline.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:33, 7 December 2007 (EST)

Molecular vs. atomic

That said, a human skin cell is at most 30um in diameter, and I think Sylar's tk needs to be at least that sharp to cut bone like he does. A bone cell is larger (1mm) but is much much denser. Nowadays, we have laser-sharpened knife blades, but there are obsidian blades used for surgery with edges only 3 nm wide. According to this source, an obsidian knife can cut between cells rather than tear the cells as a steel knife will do. Just some food for thought, and some interesting reading. :)--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:40, 7 December 2007 (EST)

Illusion as mental

• It's worth noting that Future Sylar appears on television as President Nathan. Either his ability produces visual illusions (which can be recorded by a camera), or he can produce mental illusions across the entire planet.--Hardvice (talk) 13:44, 9 December 2007 (EST)
  • You are welcome to make that note in the arguments. My counter is that as President it is possible that Sylar was able to order the media to use a digital filter that changed his appearance.--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:53, 9 December 2007 (EST)

Title

Shouldn't this article be "Theory:Abilities by Dr. Suresh's categories"? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:51, 10 December 2007 (EST)

• I think either would be okay, but if you take out the 'Dr. Suresh' and add 'sorted' when you say it, it makes more sense (Theory:Abilities [sorted] by...category). We also use the singular format for Theory:Abilities by classical element (i.e. Theory:Abilities [sorted] by classical element).--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:11, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Sound Manipulation and Constrition

I went through the list and didn't saw Echo nor the Constritor's abilities under any of the headings.Can any one try to put them down under the heading(s) that might fit them?Can someone also do the same for their abilities for the element and Company theory pages?Note: You only need to add the Constrition for the element page since Sound Manipulation is already there.SPARTAN-077 08:52, 3 September 2008 (EDT)