Fan Creation talk:Women in Refrigerators

Women not on the list

Just a side list I thought I should add (maybe for future reference?):

• Chelsea Cab Company boss
• FBI agent
• Paulette Hawkins
• Hotspur employee
• Lisa
• Lynette
• Medical examiner
• Mohinder's grandmother
• Mohinder's mother
• Janice Parkman
• Angela Petrelli
• Roulette dealer
• Miss Sakamoto
• Mira Shenoy
• Tina

It's amazing how skewed these lists are - and how many women on the list above are very very minor players. Hmm. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:29, 11 January 2007 (EST)

OK, I think we should separate the list into first-class refrigirator women, and the more fuzzy cases. Charlie is the prime example. She had absolutely no point except to die to Hiro could become a Real Man (I loved the arc, but I can't deny the sereotype it fulfills). Eden's stepmother just is a dead woman, but she doesn't nearly fulfill the criteria as well as Charlie and a few others. Cuardin 11:45, 12 January 2007 (EST)

• OK, I wrote up a Men in Refrigerators page which shows how I see the * in Refrigerators phenomenon. Unless someone objects, I want to format this page in the same way. - Cuardin 13:01, 12 January 2007 (EST)
  • I believe when Gail Simone started her list, it was very much not to be a commentary or a judgment or anything, but just "an observation, draw your own conclusions". Obviously it has implications for our society. It's dangerous if we try to analyze, categorize, or somehow make judgments based on this list, especially in our wiki. I wouldn't separate the list (keeping in line with Gail Simone's original list) - I don't want to speak for Hardvice, but I'm sure he was just cataloguing similar instances, in essence adding to Simone's list. I'd just be careful if we try to interject our thoughts or judgments too much on the list. I think it stands as a pretty good testimony of - well, of whatever people want/need to make of it. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:23, 12 January 2007 (EST)

Comparing to Men in Refrigerators

I notice that the list of Men is specifically restricted to men who are victimized as part of another character's story arc. The Women's list is not so restricted, merely listing women who suffer as a "plot device". Is that intentional? The "patient zero" for this concept is the girlfriend of Green Lantern, who was victimized as part of his story arc. Many characters, male and female, become victims as part of their own story arcs, although the nature of their suffering may be unbalanced in some fashion. I'm just wondering if we're creating the illusion of more disparity than actually exists by limiting how we put people on these lists. Given the number of men who have died or been injured in the Niki/Jessica storyline and the fairly even distribution of victims in the Sylar storyline, I'm not sure I see significant sexual discrimination in the body count. --Ted C 16:20, 12 January 2007 (EST)

• Incidentally, at the time I write this, the lists are approximately equal in length. --Ted C 16:23, 12 January 2007 (EST)
  • I agree that it's odd to say "part of another character's story arc" - it's unnecessary, unquantifiable, and probably untrue (if somebody is victimized, it's their own story arc, right?). I'll fix the wording. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:11, 12 January 2007 (EST)
    • I think it is certainly plausible to say that someone was harmed "as part of another character's story arc", the reasoning being that the event occurred as a demonstration of one character's villainous nature, or it occurred to force a change in behavior by a protagonist associated with the victim. In the Daredevil movie, for example, Elektra is a secondary character, and her death occurs for its signficance to Daredevil's character. Of course, the same could also be said of her father's death. --Ted C 17:46, 12 January 2007 (EST)
      • Yes, as a plot device, a character's sole purpose (or the death therof) may be completely to serve the purpose of a larger (read: more important) story arc. Who cares about the Walkers - they were only there to let the audience know more about Matt. But in the context of the show and our site, each character is equally important - that's why Matt gets his own page, as does James Walker - we treat them (generally) the same. Plus, Walker's death is still part of his own story arc, even if the reason behind its inclusion in the show was for a storytelling device to further Matt's arc.
• From what I got out of the articles on this, it is characters who have died or been injured as a motivating personal tragedy, or to cement the hatred between the hero and the villain responsible. In most comics there are lots of male thugs that are beat up and few female, while females are often injured as a personal attack on a hero. These List are currently most of the characters who have been injured, and not those who were personal to a Hero. (that probably doesn't sound right but I can't think of a better way to put it) -Level 17:45, 12 January 2007 (EST)
  • It is interesting to note that men and women are victimized quite equally in the show. I guess that's what happens when you have a main villain who doesn't care if his vics are male or female, and an aggressive female bully.

Discussion

The list is probably a good commentary on how our society in general views the sexes. When something bad happens to a man, he's expected to endure it and come out stronger. When something bad happens to a woman, a man is expected to go to her rescue. Audiences react more strongly to victimization of women than victimization of men. You see this disparity play out in virtually all entertainment, not just comics and comic-related shows or movies. --Ted C 11:56, 12 January 2007 (EST)