Talk:Empathic mimicry

Great layout

I think this page looks really good. It's definitely a good layout for mimicry, and can be adapted easily if we decide to do any other pages. Fantastic move! - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:03, 7 December 2006 (EST)

Examples

The points made in the list of examples about Mohinder's and Claude's comments are not really examples. But they are still on-show revelations about the nature of Peter's ability. Should they be moved to notes?--E rowe 23:27, 29 January 2007 (EST)

Not his power!

There is no way that Peter's power is Empathy! If he is an empath he would have felt great pain around people in pain, etc. Empathy is the ability to sense emotions on a psychic level, not mimic powers. Please consider changing it to Power Mimcry or Mimcry.--The Empath 23:53, 29 January 2007 (EST)

• Well, where did you get that definition of the power of empathy? Because, AFAIK, super powers don't exist in the real world. So the terms and definitions heroeswiki uses for them should match the terms and definitions from the show itself as much as possible. Do you have evidence from the show that his power is not empathy?--E rowe 23:56, 29 January 2007 (EST)
  • I think Empath is more of a description of a person with Peter's power than a description of the power itself. I agree that the power should be called Power Mimicry until we know exactly how the rest of it figures in. --Fcphantom 00:02, 30 January 2007 (EST)
    • I think there's a lot more to Peter's power than just mimicking other powers. His visions indicate that he connects with other characters on other levels, as well. Power mimicry is just one consequence of Peter's empathic abilities, and I've rewritten the article to reflect what we're learning. I'm also using the only term for his power that has been used in the show (unless you'd prefer I call it "Sponging" :) --Ted C 11:57, 30 January 2007 (EST)
      • Or "mosaic". My only real concern is that it's not 100% clear that Claude was referring to Peter's power, and not to Peter's personality. That, and the fact that "empathy" already has a pretty well established non-superpower meaning (not to mention an all-together different superpower meaning ... he's not Deanna Troi!) make me think it's a less-than-complete label which tends to lead to confusion. We certainly don't have to be bound by other definitions of "empathy", but we ignore them at the peril of being confusing. Heck, I'm still not 100% comfortable with "Eidetic memory", since an eidetic memory is a very real, very non-superpowered thing. It seems to me the move is either premature or not specific enough, but I'm not sure of other options. I agree "empathic power mimicry" is too restrictive. Howabout something like "Empathic resonance"? We need something that makes enough of a distinction from plain old personality trait empathy (and traditional superhero empathy) without being too specific so as to lock us into an unexplored corner.--Hardvice (talk) 12:57, 30 January 2007 (EST)

I have done alot of research on comic book powers and the desrciption of empathy is like I said. Here is a link to a page that has all the comic book powers1. Read the one on Empathy and Power Mimicry. And yes, the evidence is that Peter himself stated that he mimics powers not that he can read emotions. FYI, Evidence of Empathy portrayed accurately on TV would be Charmed Season 3 episode "Primrose Empath" and most of Charmed Season 6.--The Empath 00:04, 30 January 2007 (EST)

• That wikipedia article on comic book powers and the Charmed episode both have nothing to do with Heroes. And we don't just have the label Claude used, we also have comments from people associated with the show off screen. I don't see anything wrong with using either label for now and having a redirect from the other one. But letting non-Heroes sources trump Heroes sources for defining elements of Heroes won't work.--E rowe 10:04, 30 January 2007 (EST)
  • And you're the official word on this because why? As a more "real world" definition, try the Webster's Dictionary: "meta" = beyond, ie "metahuman" = beyond human. --Yoshie 17:24, 30 January 2007 (EST)
    • I get the impression E rowe wasn't referring to the WP article on "metahuman", but the WP article that's a list of superpowers. Let's try to keep it civil.--Hardvice (talk) 17:29, 30 January 2007 (EST)
  • I have a real problem calling Peter's power "empathy". Empathy is a character trait, not a superpower. If we want to include empathy in the title of his power, that's fine (maybe something like "emapathetic power mimicry"), but just calling it "empathy" is really misusing the term, in my opinion. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:03, 30 January 2007 (EST)
• Is there a reson why we can't assume that Claude was refering to Peter's wanting to save everyone as his "empathy" rather than his ability, of which Claude knows almost nothing (and thus would likely not try to define just yet)?- Yoshie (talk) 11:08, 30 January 2007 (EST)
  • I gathered that Claude already knows more about Peter's power than Peter does. His empath line wasn't the only clue to that. I agree that the word "empathy" by itself has a normal meaning that does not connote any kind of super power. But I think the normal canons of data should dictate how each of the powers is defined. One of the ways his power resembles the character trait of empathy is that, thus far it has been passively stimulated by those around him. This is something that the word "empathy" entails and the word "mimicry" does not. I do think a more precise term like "empathetic power mimicry" is a really good way to cover the bases too.
    • Good ideas for names ... but I think we should just go back to "Power mimicry" until we find out more about how empathy plays into his power. Claude is bound to teach him, and we're bound to learn more about it - let's just wait. In the meantime, let's go back to micicry - that's still, technically, what it is. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:02, 30 January 2007 (EST)

Ok, I know that Charmed has nothing do to with Heroes but those episodes are acurrate portayals of Empathy. Also, the power in this show are based on comic book type powers. Claude was probably refering to the regualar meaning of Empathy not the super powered meaning. I suggest that, let's have a vote to change the name back to Mimicry or to keep it the same.--The Empath 15:47, 30 January 2007 (EST)

Whoa - we need to realize that there's no such thing as an accurate portayals of a power, since, well, they don't exist in real life. Plus, we need to remember that Tim Kring has stated he's never really read comic books, and doesn't know much about the world of comics. Referencing other comics and shows about the supernatural is really quite a pointless argument. ... Okay, sorry for the rant, I just want to keep us grounded. That said, I vote to change it back to power mimicry until we find out more about how empathy factors in. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:51, 30 January 2007 (EST)

• I tend to agree. We're not bound by how any show or source but Heroes does things (look at Matt's telepathy versus most other depictions of telepathy). That said, I also think that while it's clear that empathy factors in to Peter's power, it's not a very good name for his power.--Hardvice (talk) 15:57, 30 January 2007 (EST)

I won't fight to keep it right now, but I seriously think that mimicry is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg, here. --Ted C 15:55, 30 January 2007 (EST)

• I totally agree: more is going on. But more is going on than "normal" empathy. Too soon to say with any certainty.--Hardvice (talk) 15:57, 30 January 2007 (EST)

• Empathy covers part of it and mimicry covers part of it, but neither covers it all. At least one definition of telepathy would cover both, but then Matt and Peter would have the same power, which they defiantly don't. Matt's could be telepathic communication and Peter's telepathic connection, but that would be confusing. -Level 16:35, 30 January 2007 (EST)
  • I wasn't suggesting we change his power to telepathy. I was pointing out an example of where Heroes powers deviate significantly from other source's powers.--Hardvice (talk) 16:50, 30 January 2007 (EST)
    • I know you weren't, I kind of was, but not really. I meant Peter's powers fit some definitions of telepathy, and Matt's fits the current most common definition, but not the original (we probably don't want to change his power though, unless it was something like Telecommunication ;) -joke). I was also trying to come up with a better name. Maybe "Remote adaptation" or something like that? -Level 17:14, 30 January 2007 (EST)

Proximity

Anyone catch how far Peter was from Claude when he reappeared? Seems we now know the "range" of Peter's sponging ability (at least the automatic side).--Yoshie 12:54, 30 January 2007 (EST)

Votes

Change to Mimicry

1. The Empath 15:58, 30 January 2007 (EST)
2. Hardvice (talk) 16:14, 30 January 2007 (EST)

Keep it Empathy

1. Ted C 16:04, 30 January 2007 (EST)

Comments

• unless we can come up with a better option ... both are underinclusive--Hardvice (talk) 16:14, 30 January 2007 (EST)