Talk:Saving Charlie/summary
Deletion discussion
I think this will also apply to the other for-pay novels (I'm talking about any for-pay book novels--electronic, hardbound, or paperback) that are upcoming. I think the question is whether we should include chapter-by-chapter summaries of these for-pay novels on Heroes Wiki. I am really torn as I think it may really help the newcomers to the Heroes "Universe" (if you will) right now to have these summaries (and perhaps the writers of the new episodes too), but I am also concerned to make sure we have permissions from NBC (I value the Heroes Wiki relationship with NBC), the author(s) of said work(s), and the publishing companies, if need be, as I see this as a gray area in terms of whether it is or not fair use, and in that respect I think it may be on a case by case basis whether we include them. I'm asking this now as I think it's an important discussion to be having, and I think input from other wiki users, especially Admin could be beneficial.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:12, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
- I also pay for Heroes episodes since I don't have a TV and have to pay for the episodes individually. I'm sure I'm not alone with this. But I don't see an issue with the summary -- this summary, although long, is definitely not in depth. I don't think it's ever more than one paragraph to summary an entire chapter, which sometimes lasts 7 or 8 pages. But ultimately, since we are talking about a possible permission issue, or our relationship with NBC, you're right, we should probably pose this to Admin. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:56, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
- If you have access to Hulu, the episodes are there too for a short period of time... I already left a message on Admin's talk page about this, since he posted online earlier today.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:06, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
- Regarding the depth for this article, I think it important to note that this is still a stub, and that the plan appears to be to give chapter by chapter summaries for 55 chapters of the Saving Charlie novel.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:38, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
- I think that I could essentially post word for word the book on Facebook or a blog or this site even and then people are still reading it without having bought the book. So I think that what we are doing with summaries is not illegal by any means. I agree with RGS that the summaries are basically the same as the summary for the episodes. It does not give the full effect that the book does. But yet you can still get the gist of it. Without having paid for the episodes. ~~IHH—Talk 17:47, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
- I don't know about the legalities here, so I'll let Admin handle that. But I can't see a summary being a rights issue. There are hundreds of wikis out there that summarize for-pay books and for-pay movies. Wiki summaries are not just for "free" televised content. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:00, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
- I think that I could essentially post word for word the book on Facebook or a blog or this site even and then people are still reading it without having bought the book. So I think that what we are doing with summaries is not illegal by any means. I agree with RGS that the summaries are basically the same as the summary for the episodes. It does not give the full effect that the book does. But yet you can still get the gist of it. Without having paid for the episodes. ~~IHH—Talk 17:47, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
- Regarding the depth for this article, I think it important to note that this is still a stub, and that the plan appears to be to give chapter by chapter summaries for 55 chapters of the Saving Charlie novel.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:38, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
- If you have access to Hulu, the episodes are there too for a short period of time... I already left a message on Admin's talk page about this, since he posted online earlier today.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:06, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
- I've thought about this quite a bit and after doing research I don't believe these summaries violate copyright. As long as they continue to not take any text directly from the material and instead summarize the story itself I believe it's fine. The most material that is directly taken would be names of characters which, I believe, are owned by NBC and we're basically covered there on a few grounds already. Most copyright issues come into play when you're copying verbatim from another work. At that point the use of that content undergoes a few legal tests to determine whether it's infringing. Since these are simply summaries my understanding is those tests don't even come into play. So while none of us are lawyers (to my knowledge), I believe our goal has always been to comply with all laws to the best of our understanding which at the very least indicates that we're not willfully breaking any of them. If any of our content causes a legal issue in the future for any reason we'll promptly make changes as our copyright owners are members of the Heroes universe and we've always been here out of respect and appreciation for the wonderful work they've done. (Admin (talk) 18:17, 22 October 2015 (EDT))
- Thanks for the explanation. That sounds reasonable. And Hardvice would have been proud of your legal knowledge. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:35, 22 October 2015 (EDT)