Talk:Enhanced strength

Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources	Episodes
2. Near-canon Sources	Webisodes, Graphic Novels, iStories, Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources	Episode commentary, Interviews, Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities	Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities	Descriptions
6. Possessor's name	If no non-speculative description is possible
Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine enhanced strength's name.

Examples

• I don't think Niki broke the guard's baton in Godsend. I think Jessica took over briefly to keep from getting hit; her expression changed, and Niki didn't seem to understand how she ended up with a broken baton in her hands. They flipped back and forth rapidly in that episode, all apparently at Jessica's discretion. --Ted C 09:43, 23 January 2007 (EST)
  • I really am a bit frustrated that we're saying Niki broke the baton, since my viewing of the seen has Jessica breaking it and leaving Niki holding the pieces. Anyone else have an opinion on this? --Ted C 12:20, 23 January 2007 (EST)
    • I agree, but I get the impression we're a distinct minority. To me, it looks like Jessica's face when she grabs it, and Niki's face when she realizes it's broken.--Hardvice (talk) 12:22, 23 January 2007 (EST)
      • I agree with both of you, actually. That was exactly what I assumed it was when I watched the episode. (Admin 12:30, 23 January 2007 (EST))
    • My impression exactly. I've basically toned down the language in the article without completely discounting the assertion that it was Niki. --Ted C 12:29, 23 January 2007 (EST)
    • The reason I was so convinced that it was Niki is that it seemed she was very surprised that she could do that and there was never that switch-to-Jessica moment. I watched that moment about eight times to make sure. As an actor, it looked looked like Ari was trying not to look too intense when she caught the baton. Finally, the only reason to include the scene is that it's a significant moment - Niki discovering her strength. --Fcphantom 13:42, 23 January 2007 (EST)
    • When watching, I saw what I considered to be a rather telling change in expression on Niki's face just before she grabbed the baton. Niki was simply surprised to find herself holding two pieces of baton instead of lying on the floor with a new bruise. I just don't seen any compelling evidence that Niki accessed the power. --Ted C 13:44, 23 January 2007 (EST)
      • In any case, I'm fine with it being ambiguous, but I'd be willing to bet I'm right :-) --Fcphantom 13:52, 23 January 2007 (EST)
        • I'm always willing to be convinced by the evidence. --Ted C 14:10, 23 January 2007 (EST)
          • I might be putting my foot in my mouth if I'm proved wrong next week, but I really believe that it was Niki who broke the baton. It was Niki who was getting emotional, not Jessica - and Jessica has really only appeared to serve a purpose - breaking the baton seemed to be purely emotional, no purpose involved. Watching it again, it looks to me like Niki is only shocked that she was able to access the power, not that she blacked out for a moment. (Further, I think that Niki accessing her power would be a really good direction for her character, but that's neither here nor there.)

            That said, we obviously have some differing opinions, and the episode was not very clear. To say it's definitely Niki or Jessica is speculative, I guess. I like the language that's in the article space now. It's ambiguous in the caption, and it's clear in the example that we just don't know. I say we leave it at that until we learn that Niki is either Hulk Hogan or just a dud. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:09, 23 January 2007 (EST)

            • That's just where I wanted to go. I'm not dreadfully attached to my interpretation of the scene, but I think it's just as valid as the "Niki did it" interpretation, so the write-up needs to be ambiguous until we have more information. --Ted C 16:51, 23 January 2007 (EST)
            • I dunno, dude. Looks like a pretty Jessicaesque expression to me: --Hardvice (talk) 03:19, 24 January 2007 (EST)
              • I watched it again frame-by-frame. I think our problem stems from a bad edit from the shot where she grabs the baton (very Jessica-like expression, pictured above), to where she breaks the baton (more Niki-like). When she's holding the baton level and actually snapping it she looks more like Niki. --Fcphantom 11:16, 24 January 2007 (EST)
              • I doubt we'll get any confirmation of this particular incident. We'll just have to look to future episodes to see if Niki displays super strength again. --Ted C 11:26, 24 January 2007 (EST)
                • I read somewhere (it was an official source, too) that it was confirmed that Niki did infact manifest the power, although I'm not sure where... - Are you on the list? Kaiser 13:50, 3 February 2007 (EST)
                  • I happen to agree with you that it was Niki, not Jessica. Can you find that official source? The only official sources I know of are the episodes themselves and possibly the graphic novels. If somebody said it in an interview, it wouldn't necessarily be taken as "an official source", but should definitely be noted. But since I happen to personally agree with you on this ambiguous point, I'd love to read the comments made by somebody involved in production, or whereever you found the confirmation. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:05, 3 February 2007 (EST)
                  • It's Leonard Roberts and Jack Coleman in the video commentary. I'd say that it makes it probably true, but considering how little they tell these actors about what's really going on, you never can tell. Still not a canon source, though.--Hardvice (talk) 14:46, 3 February 2007 (EST)
                  • I'm going with Niki. Because there is no way Jessica would lose control over Niki that fast. If it was Jessica, then Niki appearing afterwards doesn't make sense from what we know of Jessica (at that time), Jessica would most likely attack the guard, and then maybe relinquish control of Niki. Dman dustin

Enhanced Toughness

As noted already, a certain amount of superhuman durability is inherently required to apply enhanced strength: if you're muscles can apply enough force to bend a steel bar, but your bones can't withstand that force, you'll break your own limbs. Jessica is obviously tough enough to withstand her own uses of her strength, but Fallout showed that her toughness extends to resisting certain kinds of attacks: when DL hit her hard in the body with the flat of a shovel blade, she got back up immediately, and neither she nor Niki showed any sign of injury. --Ted C 13:11, 13 December 2006 (EST)

I pulled the following example as a follow up to changing the Limits description.

• Jessica takes a hard blow to the belly from a swung shovel without apparent injury. (Fallout)

We can put it back if we get more evidence of superhuman toughness. --Ted C 15:30, 4 January 2007 (EST)

No, I think it's fine to leave it out. It doesn't really show her "strength", just her toughness. (PS - I've taken a shovel hit before and survived - and "enhanced strength" is not my superpower.) - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:55, 4 January 2007 (EST)

Yes, but did you walk around afterward as if nothing happened? --Ted C 00:00, 5 January 2007 (EST)

Oh, sure - and I ran a marathon right after. Exhilarating! :) - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:14, 5 January 2007 (EST)

Enhanced Reflexes

I'm tempted to take out the "enhanced reflexes" note and move it to Theories, since there's no real evidence that Jessica has superhuman speed or reflexes. --Ted C 17:07, 14 December 2006 (EST)

• I'd say so, too. There's also a lot of discussion regarding consequential powers. Like Jessica needing enhanced durability because super strength requires she not injure herself or Nathan needing durability, too, to withstand supersonic flight. I think we'll find Nathan can be injured just as easily as someone else, but whether it's true or not is just a theory. I dont think we should speculate in the main articles on these consequential powers and just discuss their proven powers for the time being. (Admin 17:13, 14 December 2006 (EST))
  • Well, since I wrote the claims, I'll note that Jessica would injure her own arm trying to pull the door off a safe if her bones, joints, and muscles couldn't withstand the force. We also have the related evidence of DL smacking her with a shovel and doing nothing more than knock her down by sheer momentum. Enhanced reflexes aren't inherently required to use enhanced strength, and she hasn't done anything to demonstrate superior reflexes. --Ted C 17:39, 14 December 2006 (EST)
    • It's true that her super strength requires the durability as a natural consequence, but it's unclear currently whether it's a power that merits specific mention or whether we're expected to just suspend disbelief. If we accept the consequential powers then with the strength she has she might technically be able to stop bullets with her hand, but then she becomes virtually invulnerable and I suspect that wasn't their intention. My view is that as a result it's still speculation since they haven't addressed these consequential powers. How does everyone else feel? (Admin 17:50, 14 December 2006 (EST))
      • We have to remember that we're just giving a name to each power. The power Nathan has (which we have named "flight"), for instance, might be more than just the act of levitating and flying - there might be something inherently built in to help him resist injury while he's flying — but all that's speculation. We just call it what we call it, and make notes about it. We do know (based on what Mr. Bennet told Sylar) that Jessica only has one power. We call it "enhanced strength". But that doesn't mean her power can't include some other attributes along with being really strong. But again - speculation. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:22, 14 December 2006 (EST)
• I think I tossed in that note about the reflexes. I had tried to support it with evidence -- the fact being that she killed a room full of people within a very short period of time that Ando and Hiro were out of the money launderer's main room. The D.L./Jessica fights (particular the one at their house) also seemed to show Jessica "sped-up", she was moving pretty swiftly and caught D.L. quite off guard until he had time to react to what was happening. So, I don't think it's a theory, I think it's an observation. I'm not attached to this POV, though; I guess the line between theory and proof is thin -- Xanen 20:10, 14 December 2006 (EST)
  • I'm just not seeing that her reflexes are enhanced. She usually has the element of surprise, since people don't expect meek little Niki to suddenly rip their arms off. Furthermore, she's not afraid to use guns, which would help in the mass combats. If we see a real indication of superhuman reflexes, then I'm all for adding them in, but I haven't seen her do anything superhuman in that regard, yet. --Ted C 22:51, 14 December 2006 (EST)

Niki and the Baton, round 17

• Looks like the writers think the question of Niki's super strength is unresolved. It's odd that the cast thinks otherwise, but it looks like we made the right call in leaving it open.--Hardvice (talk) 22:13, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

Peter?

In Five Years Gone, when Peter was making his way towards the interrogation room, did he use super-strength on that one Homeland Security agent? I'm not exactly sure. DannyP 00:30, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

• Possibly. May have also been telekinesis. I don't remember if he even touched the guy or not. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:50, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
  • I just watched the scene and Peter was touching him. He grabbed him, spun around, and threw him against the wall. Peter probably did use enhanced strength. He is always around Niki, being his girlfriend.--Ice Vision 00:57, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
    • I think he used space-time manipulation, since that looked like a super-speed spin. Doesn't necessarily mean he didn't use enhanced strength, too, though. --Ted C 10:35, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
      • Space-time manipulation has never been used like that. Besides, the audio and visual cues would've been used if it were space-time manipulation. And the spin wasn't that fast. DannyP 20:21, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

Would it be reasonable to conclude that Peter absorbed this power from Niki in How to Stop an Exploding Man (and then used it to pound Sylar a bit)? --Ted C 09:26, 22 May 2007 (EDT)

Unaired scene from The Hard Part

Did you guys see the unaired scene from The Hard Part where Jessica goes all ape-s••• on Linderman's archives? She pushes over a display, and D.L. gets into an argument with some dude. Crazy. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:32, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

How To Stop An Exploding Peter

• I swear that Peter was using enhanced strength while he was punching Sylar right after Niki totally PWNED Sylar with a parking meter. Jason Garrick 22:05, 22 May 2007 (EDT)

Image Request

Could someone please upload a clean image of Niki holding the parking meter? --Ted C 14:51, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Super Strength.

Canonical name stated by Micah in Powerless, wink wink nudge nudge say no more!--Riddler 00:26, 4 December 2007 (EST)

• Snap-snap, grin-grin, wink-wink, say no more?--Riddler 02:11, 4 December 2007 (EST)
• Enhanced and Super means the same thing. I don't think this one warrants such a major rehaul in the name. --Piemanmoo 02:17, 4 December 2007 (EST)
  • Hey, it's what they said. We have to go with the canonical source, according to the naming conventions, ala Lightning and Replication (which, by the way, means the same thing as Duplication WHICH is the common comic book name). The way I see it, we keep replication, we have to retitle this page.--Riddler 02:20, 4 December 2007 (EST)
    • I concur for the these reasons, the other word being used by canon requires the change SacValleyDweller (talk) 02:23, 4 December 2007 (EST)