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Talk:Powers/Archive 1

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I think we need to designate between controllable and uncontrollable powers. For instance, Claire can't control her regeneration, and Matt's uncontrollable mind-reading has actually been the topic of one episode. Niki is possibly the best example of an uncontrollable power - and the cause of much of her consternation.

On the other hand, Nathan can very much control his flying, as can D.L. his phasing, and the Haitian's memory manipulation.

And then we have an unusual category that includes Peter Petrelli (who can't control his absorption, but can control some of the powers he absorbs), Isaac (who may only be able to control his power while under the influence), and Hiro (who is still learning to have control over his time warping).

I know this is not an exhaustive list ... Does anybody have any ideas on the best way to include this information? Ryangibsonstewart 19:06, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Maybe we should have two lists, one which is controlled powers and the other uncontrolled.Heroe 19:54, 1 December 2006 (EST)

Subpowers of Telepathy

  • Should we put Matt's, The Haitian's and Eden's powers all under "telepathy"? They are sometimes considered subpowers of telepathy, so should we classify them as such, or leave them as distinct powers?Heroe 19:54, 1 December 2006 (EST)
    • Go head and reorganize it, but keep in mind that many pages out there reference the headers using Powers#PowerName, so keep the headers of the subsections the same... --Orne 19:58, 1 December 2006 (EST)
      • I don't think there's any need to reorganize the list. I think their powers (some of which are still pretty vaguely defined), are distinct enough that we don't need to group them quite yet. It's a good note, though. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:39, 1 December 2006 (EST)
    • This list of comic book superpowers may be helpful. Another fun list of quasiscientific terms for powers can be found in the sidebar of Psychic 101. —Dreamcore 13:19, 5 December 2006 (EST)
      • I do find the current power descriptions for Eden and the Haitian unsatisfyingly canny: suggestion and mental manipulation. So...their powers are dating and sales. —Dreamcore 18:03, 5 December 2006 (EST)


Something about the formatting of this article drives me crazy. The sections are so short that, with the horizontal lines, it looks like ruled paper. The TOC is too long, but without it there's no whitespace. I'm really not sure what we can do to fix it up, though. We need the section headings for links; otherwise, I'd suggest we just bung the whole thing into a table and call it a day. Maybe a layout more like Season One, with the image next to each power, would make it a little less jarring. Anybody have any ideas?--Hardvice (talk) 05:14, 2 December 2006 (EST)

  • Yes, that's exactly what we should do. If we add the pictures next to the powers, it will look great: less "text booky", more user-friendly, and just all-around prettier. A table, my first thought also, is not a good idea for the exact reason you stated. The only other suggestion I have is to change the == heading leveling to === - that would get rid of the lines. You know, computer paper instead of ruled paper ... I say go for the pics side-by-side with the power. Not every power will have a pic, perhaps, but it'll help tons. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:04, 2 December 2006 (EST)
  • I agree that it looks weird... and maybe putting the images in there would help break things up a bit. But I tend to see this as a symptom of a bigger... I dunno if I would call it a "problem", but the thing is that we, as viewers, don't know enough about how the powers work to describe them in more detail than "can fly" or "can control technology with the power of mind." I mean, I'm working on a theory on how time travel, prophecy and the possibility of predestination work on this show, but at this point, ninety percent is speculative and belongs on the Fan Theories page. (Which is fine; that's how good science fiction operates. The audience is playing along with the characters, trying to figure out how the world works.) At the end of the season we'll presumably know more about how these things work and we might be able to put together enough material on how (say) Sylar's initial power works to give it its own page, but right now one-sentence descriptions seem to be what we're stuck with. --drl909 07:31, 2 December 2006 (EST)
    • We will eventually move towards a page per power (Prophecy was just created), but right now, they are just blurbs. I do think, however, that we can add a little more info to each power. Additionally, I feel we should put some note as to whether or not the power is able to be controlled by the hero. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:14, 2 December 2006 (EST)
  • I think it would look good with === like RyanGibsonStewart suggested. At least for now Powers is a sort of glossary of powers with straightforward descriptions of the powers. We refer to powers such as "spontaneous regeneration", but someone not familiar with the term needs a definition of that. Whether we'll ever need a single page per power I'm not sure, but until then I like to think of this page as a glossary. But a glossary with pictures is a very nice glossary indeed. :) (Admin 08:55, 2 December 2006 (EST))

New Format

Okay, I made the changes, and I think it looks a ton better, and much more user-friendly. However, now it's glaring clear that we need some more pictures:

  • Dream manipulation (can we get a screencap of Sanjog holding the ball, or beckoning to Mohinder?)
    • One with Mohinder watching himself and Chandra would maybe make it clearer that it's a dream.--Hardvice (talk) 16:21, 2 December 2006 (EST)
      • Duh, stupid me - yes, of course, that would be the perfect pic. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:45, 2 December 2006 (EST)
  • Eidetic memory (I have no idea - maybe a picture of Charlie reading a book or speaking Japanese - maybe a screencap with captions?)
    • Done. --Fcphantom 15:30, 2 December 2006 (EST)
      • Thanks for getting the pic, Fcphantom. I wish we could get one that more clearly illustrates her power (I know - how do you visually portray a freakin' awesome memory?). Are there any caps of her reading, or of her speaking Japanese with English subtitles? - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:46, 2 December 2006 (EST)
        • Sure, there are pics of her speaking Japanese, but anyone can really do that. I like this pic because Charlie is looking up like she's accessing a memory. It's the only real visual cue people give about memory. --Fcphantom 16:58, 2 December 2006 (EST)
          • Okey-dokey. The quality of the pic is a little poor, so it's hard to tell she's looking up. But you're right - that's a pretty visual example of memory access. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:05, 2 December 2006 (EST)
  • Enhanced reflexes (I personally don't think this is really confirmed as a legit power, and I can't think of any examples from the show. Any suggestions?)
    • The enhanced reflexes part always bugged me too since there's never been a clear instance of it. It's even more speculative than Sylar's identifying-flaws-in-complex-systems power that we don't have up. It's gone. --Fcphantom 12:18, 2 December 2006 (EST)
  • Enhanced strength (anything with Jessica bullying - maybe the shot of her heel on the hotel thug's temple, or anything from the fight with D.L.?)
    • How about throwing her father against the wall? - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:45, 2 December 2006 (EST)
      • The only visual that shows her strength that I remember is when she tossed DL in their bedroom. I don't have that ep downloaded though. --Fcphantom 16:58, 2 December 2006 (EST)
  • Mental Power Suppression (Another tough one - um, a picture of the Haitian just standing there?)
  • We should resize this one, or get one of the Haitian, Bennet, and Eden from 6MA--Hardvice (talk) 16:21, 2 December 2006 (EST)
    • Yeah, I guess the 3 of them standing together is the clearest illustration of this - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:45, 2 December 2006 (EST)
      • On it. --Fcphantom 16:58, 2 December 2006 (EST)
  • Suggestion (Geez, I don't know, maybe the shot of Eden whispering to Isaac? Can we imbed an audio clip (or YouTube clip like Lostpedia does) with that cool vocal thing she does)
    • I tried for the whispering in Isaac's ear screen cap, but it was an extreme closeup. I could get the shot of her suggesting to Matt in Six Months Ago.
      • That'd be alright, I guess. As long as it's clear that she's influencing Matt, or that she has the upper hand in their conversation... I don't know - let's see what you get. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:46, 2 December 2006 (EST)
  • And finally, all of Hiro's powers. Do we have a shot of all of them? I'm not sure I like them in subcategories, but so be it. Let's at least start with the other pictures.

- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 10:01, 2 December 2006 (EST) One more note: I don't like the picture of Matt's telepathy. Maybe it's good because it's just something different, but maybe that's why I don't like it. I don't know - I would love something from the convenience store when he was feeling overwhelmed, or maybe a shot of him kind of touching/cupping his ear. Okay, and one final note: I love that Power mimicry and Precognition are so close alphabetically because Peter Painting and Isaac Painting right above each other look great - and makes power mimicry all that more clear. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 10:04, 2 December 2006 (EST)

  • I'd suggest making sure all powers line up vertically regardless of whether we have an image for them already or not. Using a table maybe? If this is already a problem solved elsewhere on the wiki, then great we can just incorporate it. (Admin 11:04, 2 December 2006 (EST))
    • Alrighty, I added some extra pics, just so the layout was consistent, and all the powers were flush with each other. I just used pics that were already uploaded, so they're not the best. If someone could still grab the screencaps listed above (in all your free time, of course), those would work best I think... - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:09, 2 December 2006 (EST)
  • Can anyone grab a screenshot of when D.L. was passing his arm through the car window when he/Micah and Hiro/Ando came upon the car crash? There is a personal preference of mine in that, but I think it also better illustrates what he can do (especially if the screenshot shows the rippling of the glass around his arm). (Jared 1536, 2 December 2006)


Is anyone opposed to getting rid of the "Space/time manipulation" category, and just making its three subcategories main categories? I don't like the way it looks - kind of pointless. It's much better when organized with every power a regular category (like in Powers/Test). - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:45, 2 December 2006 (EST)

  • The only reason I'd like to keep them together (or combine them) is that Hiro has one power, not three. Based on the previews for Monday's show, I think we should be careful to stick to the one hero=one power rule as much as possible.--Hardvice (talk) 17:38, 2 December 2006 (EST)
    • Good point, duly noted... If we go with the powers/Test|new powers page, should we (could we) add in the "Space/time manipulation" to the subcategories? - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:10, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Hiding Contents Bar

  • Is there a way to hide the contents bar by default? All that white space at the top of the page is really bugging me. --Fcphantom 12:35, 2 December 2006 (EST)
    • There is: __NOTOC__ will do it ... but I think if we're keeping this as a glossary-style page, we need a TOC. But I agree with the annoying space - maybe we could have the powers start right away, or fill in the white space with text or images? I don't have any concrete ideas. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:08, 2 December 2006 (EST)
      • I think there's all that white space because of the break-clear-all tags, which is counteracting the table-of-contents-right wiki command. They are not normally required. --Orne 13:30, 2 December 2006 (EST)
        • All better. Used clear="left" instead of clear="all". That way, the text flows around the TOC, but the left-aligned images stack.--Hardvice (talk) 13:54, 2 December 2006 (EST)


I can grab a couple screencaps when I finish the prophecy images. We should probably standardize the image size ... it just looks better when we have a series of images regularly arranged on the screen to have them all match. Or at least it does to my type-A eyes.--Hardvice (talk) 16:14, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Teleportation Pic

I'm still of the opinion that the pic of Hiro in NY is a better choice for showing teleportation - it's more cinematic. It would need to be resized, though. It would actually be cool to see the pic of Hiro on the subway as "icon" for the timeline. Any thoughts? - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:49, 2 December 2006 (EST)

  • The funny thing is - the subway is actually a better pic for time travel because of the clock, even though the scene is more about teleporting to NY. I guess my overall opinion is to combine them into space-time manipulation and use the pic of him disappearing in the diner. --Fcphantom 01:53, 3 December 2006 (EST)


Two possible images for Eden:

Better picture, looks creepy, but no indication what she's doing.
Clearly shows the effect, but not the cause, and not a good picture.
  • Thanks for the choices! I vote for the first - unless you know the story, looks like a normal street scene. The first is a better pic, and shows Eden obviously up to something. I say the first is the better pic. (Was the closeup of Eden whispering to Isaac too close? ... Also, I'd still love to have an audio clip of that vocal thing the producers give her when she uses her powers.) - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:26, 2 December 2006 (EST)
    • Re Eden whispering in Isaac's ear: yes. You can barely distinguish her face from his and her mouth is turned almost out of view.--Hardvice (talk) 23:36, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Anchor links

Hmmm. Looking at the page source, wiki automatically strips out the anchor tags. Sad.--Hardvice (talk) 23:36, 2 December 2006 (EST)

  • VICTORY OVER WIKI IS MINE!--Hardvice (talk) 23:54, 2 December 2006 (EST)

New(est) Format

Wow, this page has gone through a lot of edits recently! I really like the table format - it surpassed my expectations. And bravo for making the links jump right to the power - well done! A few comments:

  • Does anybody mind if we change "controlled" to "controllable"? (Poor Hiro doesn't always have control, yet it says he does...)
  • I'm still not digging the Space/time manipulation category - okay, I've accepted its existence, but it's not clear that Chronokinesis, Teleportation, and Time travel subcategories. I don't have any suggestions, just bringing up an issue.
    • I like the changes made - I think it looks much cleaner, and is more consistent with everything else. Putting the powers in the definition of Space/time manipulation was a good move. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:47, 3 December 2006 (EST)

Again, I think it looks fantastic! - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:07, 3 December 2006 (EST)

Activation Categories

I actually have an issue with the way the powers are labeled right now. If Ted's power is 'emotional,' does that mean Flight went from an 'emotional' (Nathan's car crash made him afraid, which triggered the power) to a 'controlled' power? The same goes for Precognition. As Peter showed, the power itself is not induced, it is only Isaac that needs help to bring his power out. These things are subjective labels based upon the person's ability to use their power, not accurate labels of the power itself. The bar scene where Matt sees the Haitian suggested to me that Matt had some ability to focus his ability (where he stared at people and their thoughts came in).

I would suggest a separate set of labels. Innate (as in does not need to be learned or consciously controlled and affects only the possessor): Ranges from Claire's healing (it happens when it can, can not be stopped) to Niki/Jessica's physical prowess to Charlie's memory. Reactive: Peter's power mimicry, perhaps, as it triggers when he's near a Hero and decays away afterwards. Controllable: Most abilities seen. Uncontrollable: Not sure we've seen any powers that are uncontrollable yet, but I'm just putting it up here.

These labels describe how the power functions, not the level of mastery each Hero has over their power. That's why I would prefer them. [ Jared 1300, 3 December 2006 (EST) ]

Personally, I'd recommend eliminating the activations entirely. They seem to me to be more indicative of how a particular character deals with or "activates" the power rather than a property of the power itself. Easy example is that Isaac's precognition is induced, however Peter's precognition wasn't. (Admin 23:00, 3 December 2006 (EST))
I'm not a big fan, either. They seem somewhat arbitrary ... Nathan can control his flight, but he's also flown against his will. Hiro has teleported intentionally and accidentally. Ted boiled water intentionally and gave his wife cancer unintentionally. We can take it out of the template and leave the variables in the template calls in case we decide to bring 'em back.--Hardvice (talk) 23:08, 3 December 2006 (EST)
Agree - they aren't quite clear. I do think we should have them noted somewhere, though - maybe the talk page is enough? It will look much better removed.
Since they vary by character (and circumstances), and not really by power, the best place is probably the "Powers" section of each individual character.--Hardvice (talk) 00:10, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Dealing with Sylar

For powers Sylar has, should we label possessors like "Sylar (from Brian Davis)" instead of "Sylar, Brian Davis"? This kind of format would be clearer and more flexible for any future curveballs thrown by the writers where multiple people have the same power.

  • If "Sylar, Brian Davis" is confusing, you can list that the power is possessed by "Sylar, and Brian Davis" - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:45, 3 December 2006 (EST)

Mental Power Suppression

Is anybody opposed to changing the name of the Haitian's power from "mental power suppression" to just "power suppression"? The mental part seems kind of superfluous to me. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:27, 3 December 2006 (EST)

I am opposed to it. :) I may have been the one who originally changed it to "mental power suppression" since there's no evidence yet that The Haitian is able to suppress powers other than those that affect the mind (e.g. telepathy, suggestion, etc.). I think I know where you're going with it, though, in that the powers in Heroes all originate from the mind so they're all "mental powers" in a way. If someone can suggest a better description than "mental" I'd be all for changing it, but I think it's important at this point not to assume he can suppress all powers. Can he stop Claire from regenerating or Nathan from flying? Nathan did fly away from Mr. Bennet and The Haitian before so it's possible he cant stop that kind of power, but can interfere with any power that attempts to access the brains of others. (Admin 22:55, 3 December 2006 (EST))
Gotcha - I think I was misinterpreting the mental as being the Haitian's mental power to suppress the powers of others, rather than his ability to suppress the mental powers of others. I see. I do wish it were a little more clear, but so be it. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:02, 3 December 2006 (EST)
I'd like to find some way to combine his powers like we did with Hiro ... based on what Mr. Bennet says to Sylar in the extended previews for this week's episode, it's clear that the Haitian has only one power, but I'll be darned if I can name it (Mental manipulation?)--Hardvice (talk) 23:04, 3 December 2006 (EST)
"Mental manipulation" is, actually, exactly what I was thinking. (I was so excited to suggest it - Damn you, Hardvice!) Other suggestions: "Mental control"? "Mind control" (though I think this has the wrong connotion, and doesn't clearly address power suppression)? Or we could just call it "Power and memory modification" - blunt, but it's descriptive... - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:23, 3 December 2006 (EST)
Mr. Bennet definitely said that all the other evolved humans they found had only one power. I assume that means The Haitian, as well. Shall we combine his powers? Did we decide on a name? Any thoughts? - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:39, 5 December 2006 (EST)
Let's do it. The Matt picture bugs me anyway (and I'm the one who uploaded it!)--Hardvice (talk) 01:54, 5 December 2006 (EST)

New Sylar Power

I'm happy with the description and image of Sylar's power. You have a way with words, Hardvice! - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:36, 5 December 2006 (EST)

Loving the new layout

Just wanted to say that I really like the new structure of this page. The images and table are a great touch. Bravo, fellow Heroes! --ZyberGoat 13:08, 5 December 2006 (EST)

First Demonstrated

Would it be worthwhile to cite the first episode in which we saw a particular power used (or at least the results of its use)? --Ted C 16:14, 5 December 2006 (EST)

Personally I'd say no it doesn't need to be cited separately. I think that info could just be included in the character history if it's not already there for most characters. The first time a power is seen is usually noteworthy enough that it gets included in the history for that episode. (Admin 16:44, 5 December 2006 (EST))

Power Names

I just noticed in Genesis, Mohinder says "Teleportation, levitation, tissue regeneration, is this outside the realm of possibility?" Does this mean that the technical term for Nathan's power should be Levitation? This would be consistent with what we saw in Six Months Ago when he floated above the car, but I consider Flight having forward motion, like he did in Hiros... Comments? --Orne 16:56, 5 December 2006 (EST)

I'd say leave it be for now unless they explicitly call his power levitation or unless we see Nathan in a folder labeled levitation for example. Levitation could yet be a separate power and what Nathan does seems more like flight than levitation to me. Plus everytime Nathan and Peter talk about it they call it "flying". (Admin 17:02, 5 December 2006 (EST))
"Levitation" may better describe the power that Sylar used to escape in --Ted C 17:07, 5 December 2006 (EST).
Perhaps we should change Claire's power to "Tissue Regeneration" to more closely match the show's own terminology? --Ted C 17:07, 5 December 2006 (EST)
That's a possibility. They call it different things in different episodes. In Homecoming Zach tells her that there's a chapter in Activating Evolution about spontaneous regeneration. Let's solict feedback and see what people think before changing it. I dont know if it's ever been referred to as rapid cell regeneration (as we have it labeled currently) within the show or in Claire's official bio. We could possibly change it to spontaneous tissue regeneration. (Admin 17:15, 5 December 2006 (EST))
The Genesis files have folders labeled, IIRC, "Human flight potential" and "Rapid cellular regeneration". Considering Chandra was studying evolved humans while Mohinder was merely describing them to his class, I'd go with Chandra's labels.--Hardvice (talk) 17:37, 5 December 2006 (EST)
I'm all for simplicity in the power names, so as to be more "catchy", yet still being sufficiently descriptive. Normally, I would quickly jump on a chance to call Claire's power something a bit more concise (I think just plain ol' "Regeneration" fits the bill). However, there are a lot of jumps throughout the site that would have to be changed. I think we're far enough into it, (and it is part of the show's expansive jargon) that we should just keep it as it is. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:17, 5 December 2006 (EST)

Full Articles

Will we want to expand these short descriptions into full articles at some point? I can see people developing in-depth analyses of how various powers work as we learn more about them over time. For example: Niki/Jessica has superhuman strength - does this imply superhuman durability as well, since any force she applies is also applied to her (i.e., she needs to be able to resist her own strength to use it)? --Ted C 12:53, 7 December 2006 (EST)

  • Personally, I'd like to eventually see a page comprehensively listing each power (as this page does), and then a separate page for each power (though I know not everybody agrees with that). We already have a page for prophecy, which is just another name for "Precognition". Somebody just created a page for rift, which could easily be transitioned into a "Space-time manipulation" page. Peter's page lists the powers he has mimicked, so why not have a page devoted just to "Power mimicry"? On top of that, there's been a lot of discussion about certain powers (Eden's Suggestion power, The Haitian's *whatever* power, and, most famously, Sylar's "The ability to know when things are broken and fix them and knowing how exactly things work", um, I mean "Intuitive aptitude"), and all that discussion would be better suited to individual pages. I think many of those powers can really be fleshed out...eventually. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:46, 7 December 2006 (EST)
    • I've thought all along that we'll eventually need a category for powers and a page for each. We can try it now, but I'm not sure we really have enough information to make most of the articles longer than a couple lines.--Hardvice (talk) 12:52, 7 December 2006 (EST)
    • I see Prophecy and Rift differently. I dont think Prophecy is a page discussing Isaac's powers as much as it's designed solely to compare his paintings with events as they actually occurred. It has a side-effect of mentioning his powers, but it doesn't go in depth on the power itself. The Rift page I believe is just a page discussing a specific plot device. I could see there potentially being a whole page in the future for each power if there's a lot of information that needs to be presented to explain the power itself, but I don't know if that will be the case. I think most powers will be explainable in perhaps one paragraph. What might require more effort is explaining different characters' experiences with those powers, but those explanations are inherent to the characters, not necessarily the power. (Admin 12:53, 7 December 2006 (EST))
    • My suggestion, then, would be to leave the Powers page as a summary, linke the power names to individual pages, and create a Powers category for them, as well. --Ted C 12:53, 7 December 2006 (EST)
      • Wouldn't hurt to create a few pages for the individual powers and see how they come out. Once we have the pages we can always decide the best way to put them to use... whether it be linking through the Powers page or by direct links right to them. (Admin 12:59, 7 December 2006 (EST))
        • Making "Power mimicry" into a link caused control code (rowspan="2" id="Power mimicry" | ) to become visible in the page. I don't know enough about Wiki's underlying mechanisms to know how to fix that issue. --Ted C 14:28, 7 December 2006 (EST)
        • Sample created for Power mimicry. --Ted C 14:48, 7 December 2006 (EST)
          • It uses the power name both as the label and as the page anchor link. We need to create the link in the template, not the article. This will make all of the powers into red links, though. For now, I'd put the link in the Description.--Hardvice (talk) 15:13, 7 December 2006 (EST)
            • Someone made the change already. I don't see the red links as a problem: they just encourage people to write the articles. The Precognition link is blue, though, and that's a problem, because it goes to a redirect page instead of a detailed Power page. --Ted C 17:30, 7 December 2006 (EST)
      • Okay, I agree with you on the pages listed, Admin - I was just giving examples of existing articles and how they relate to powers that could have their own pages. I'm just thinking abstractly of the future, I don't think we're anywhere near ready for a full page on each article quite yet. Maybe a test on just a few, like Power mimicry, or Intuitive aptitude to start. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:20, 7 December 2006 (EST)

Limited Examples

I'd like to suggest we put a limit on the number of items in the Examples section. These lists could get quite long if we keep adding more examples from every episode for years to come. I think we should limit the list to the ten "best" examples of the power in use. These will be the examples that best help us define the how the powers work and what their limits are. --Ted C 12:21, 12 December 2006 (EST)

That sounds like a good idea. Right now we have 4 articles (space-time manipulation, regeneration, telekinesis, and telepathy) that have more than 10. I think they look fine, but you're right - when we get to the end of the season, they will start to look pretty unruly. I don't mind having a lot of examples, but let's pare them down when we get further into the season. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:56, 12 December 2006 (EST)