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Talk:Theories/Archive 1

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Archive.jpg WARNING: Talk:Theories/Archive 1 is an archive of past messages. New messages should be added to Talk:Theories. Archive.jpg

Who is the cause of the explosion?

I think it may be a bit premature, based on Peter's dream, to assume that Ted Sprague or Sylar might still not be the cause of the explosion in New York. As noted in several other contexts, we just don't know yet how Peter's dream power works, or how literally to take it. I'd un-strike the stricken theories and keep them in the mix (are we just striking out definite disproven theories, or any hunch that now seems iffy?) -- Xanen 11:54, 7 December 2006 (EST)

Crossed out Linderman theory

Why was a line put through the "Linderman is Sylar" theory?

  • A bit premature, yes, but I think it's confirmed now by the flashback. --ZyberGoat 01:09, 28 November 2006 (EST)

New Sylar theory

Bravo on finally offering an idea other than "brain-eating"! The physical characteristics premise seems very sound, especially after watching Gabriel repair the watch. --ZyberGoat 23:13, 27 November 2006 (EST)

Matt's timeline

Can we all come to a consensus on disproving the theory of Matt being in a separate timeline than the rest of the characters? As per Six Months Ago, we've seen him interact with Eden in the same context as The Haitian, who both in turn interacted with Mr. Bennet. Not to mention that we saw him interact with Mr. Bennet and The Haitian way back in Collision, which seems to be a strong enough link between them to put them in the same timeline. --ZyberGoat 23:51, 27 November 2006 (EST)

  • Agreed. I can't believe that was a viable theory. I know Matt hasn't had much interaction with other heroes (or at least not the good ones!), but come on! ... Ryangibsonstewart 00:27, 28 November 2006 (EST)
    • My thought as well. I think the only reason for a lack of interaction is that he's all the way in Los Angeles. Technically, very few of the characters have had all that much interaction with most of the other heroes (excluding Peter, who probably has the most connections - Nathan, Mohinder, Simone, Hiro, Ando, Claire, Isaac, Sylar - OK, practically the whole cast). --ZyberGoat 00:38, 28 November 2006 (EST)
      • Finally, this is officially disproven now that Matt has met with Peter and Claire. --ZyberGoat 13:35, 5 December 2006 (EST)

Centralized Theory Page

  • I for one am so glad we moved these to a single page. Some of these are really, really bad (as in completely unsupported by anything that has aired, not just merely silly). We look a lot more professional by keeping them off the actual articles. Good move!--Hardvice (talk) 23:00, 28 November 2006 (EST)
    • Yeah, I was embarassed having a lot of these theories mixed in with the legitimate information. I felt it brought down the quality of the entire wiki and would not have missed them if they were all eliminated. A lot of these seem pretty "out there"... as if people are guessing first and then trying to back up guesses with elements from the show. ...and I still don't know why people assumed that Sylar was eating brains. ;) (Admin 23:23, 28 November 2006 (EST))
      • I mostly love that I can basically ignore anything that says "Theories" in the recent changes ... Come on , guys - brains taste awesome, didn't you know? ... Ryangibsonstewart 23:30, 28 November 2006 (EST)
      • I agree that some of these are pretty much from left field, but I also think that a large part of the fun of watching the show is the theorizing, and practically every conversation I've seen about it -- on or offline -- has gravitated toward doing so. As such, I don't really get or share the dislike/distaste. --Dyne 09:38, 1 December 2006 (EST)
      • After rewatching Don't Look Back, my conclusion is that the brain-eating theory originated with an offhanded comment made by one of the cops during Hiro's trip to New York, in case you were still wondering. --Dyne 12:25, 9 December 2006 (EST)
        • I enjoy that sometimes the "theories" turn out better (more plausable) than what the writers put out on the actual show (a la Matrix movies 2 & 3 -- the fan hype was several times better than how that ended). The whole Hiro/Charlie conclusion ends with a "Surprise! You're in Japan, for no reason at all! Even though you left the present timeline from Texas, where it would have made more sense for you to do the whole 'circle' thing you were talking about a few episodes ago and end up exactly where you left, but Noooo..." Gah, it still bothers me 4 days later. --Orne 10:25, 1 December 2006 (EST)
        • I tend to be more of a "facts" guy ... I have my own theories, but they're just that: theories. I actually got hooked on Lostpedia by submitting my theories, but my interest quickly evolved to chronicling, fact checking, the realm of information. Though the thoeries are sometimes fun, many of them are quite silly and don't show much acumen. Take it or leave it, it's there for those that want, and hidden from those that don't. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:20, 1 December 2006 (EST)
        • Do we need guidelines on what rises to the level of a 'good' theory? Should they have some positive footing in the series or graphic novels as their starting point at least? For instance, the theories on Micah right now are... a bit out there. They start from a fact we've seen (his technical ability), but then go off on some tangents that aren't even vaguely supported. Maybe this clashes with my own scientific training on what a theory is, and I'm just being a grump -- Xanen 12:01, 7 December 2006 (EST)
          • Some of the theories are ... well, awful. Micah as Iron Man definitely comes to mind. However, the Theories page is for all fan theories, no matter how absurd. If somebody else wants to organize them into "good" theories and "bad" theories, that's fine with me, but prepared for it to rapidly degenerate into a protracted edit war as people rush to the defense of their pet theory. Me, I'm just glad they're off the article pages, where I can safely ignore them.--Hardvice (talk) 12:11, 7 December 2006 (EST)
          • Perhaps a better idea would be to reorganize the page a bit. Maybe a two-column table. On the left is the theory, and on the right is any evidence to support it. Maybe a three-column table, even, with a column for evidence that contradicts it (or lists when the theory was disproven). Should be less likely to degenerate into complete chaos.--Hardvice (talk) 12:35, 7 December 2006 (EST)
            • I set up a sample version of this at Theories/new.--Hardvice (talk) 12:48, 7 December 2006 (EST)
          • I think we're going to have to come up with some kind of guideline. At the minimum we need to make sure the Theories page doesn't turn into a Talk page about the theories. Lostpedia has a Theories policy, it might be worthwhile to check it out and see what good ideas they've come up with. Like Hardvice, I'm just glad to have these off the main article pages even though it turns out a lot of people really enjoy all these theories. I think as a fan site it's something we can offer versus an encyclopedia. (Admin 12:36, 7 December 2006 (EST))
            • I really like the example of the new theories page. It requires a bit more accountability. It would also discourage spontaneous theories from popping up, since the editing format is a bit difficult for novice users to follow - although, this might be a good thing. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:11, 7 December 2006 (EST)
            • I think part of the difficulty here is the distinction between theories, speculation, and wild notions that are unnecessarily convoluted in their attempts to explain subplots and character behaviors. Currently, the theories page is a get-it-all-out-of-our-hair-for-the-time-being area, rather than an organized consideration of how meritable a lot of the "theories" are. While time and effort could be spent further organizing this page for that purpose, I can't say that doing so would necessarily pay major dividends in improving the overall quality of the section or the site, which should be the primary consideration. --(Glue 23:53, 7 December 2006 (EST))
              • Personally, I tend to agree. I also don't think there's much of a way to improve the quality of the content significantly. These theories are ipso facto unable to be supported by evidence so there's no good method for qualifying theories as valid or not. However, at the same time, a large number of fans find this type of theorizing to be very interesting to them. As we're not bound by the rules of an encyclopedia we have the freedom to entertain these theories in some form. As a result I think we have to work with what we've got and try to present it as logically and cleanly as possible despite the non-factual nature of the information itself. A lot of visitors come to the Theories page so we should do our best to catalog these theories in the cleanest way possible but definitely not at the expense of the rest of the site. Fortunately (in a way) we've got a few weeks without Heroes in which I'm sure we'll be getting antsy and cleaning up various things. :) (Admin 00:24, 8 December 2006 (EST))
                • I visit and mostly contrib to Theories myself (so ashamed!). =) I mostly avoid reading anything factual until after I've seen the latest ep, and even then I just read since I can't really materially add to said facts. I can't explain what the "appeal" is of the Theories page. I personally find most of it ludicrous, but some of them are less theories and more observations that are somewhat insightful at times. --(Glue 00:53, 8 December 2006 (EST))
                  • I got hooked onto wiki sites through contributing to theories on Lostpedia - just giving my two cents; I also enjoyed reading other theories, and either taking from them, or reveling in the fact that there are people out there crazier than I. I think the theories page is essential to the site. I also think the theories page is important to be "separate" from the site, as it is right now.- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:28, 8 December 2006 (EST)
                    • I think a lot of viewers share your opinion, RyanGibsonStewart, which is why despite my personal dislike for it it's important to have here. :) (Admin 17:32, 8 December 2006 (EST))
                      • Maybe you should op somebody who's actually willing to keep on top of this page. :) I pretty much feel like you feel. Every couple weeks, I scour it for typos and factually inaccurate "evidence", but I otherwise leave it alone. Ditto spoilers.--Hardvice (talk) 16:27, 11 December 2006 (EST)

What the heck is the AWOI?

  • I've seen this mentioned a few times in fan forums. What is it? Heroe 20:06, 1 December 2006 (EST)
    • "Can you use it in a sentence?" :) Not sure what context you've seen it in, but might they be saying "Away/Absent With Out Internet?" (Admin 20:18, 1 December 2006 (EST))
      • Are you thinking of OWI (organization without initials)? That's what people call Mr. Bennet's group. The only AWOI I've seen is here -- Articles Without Images.--Hardvice (talk) 21:25, 1 December 2006 (EST)
  • It's "Agency Without Initials", meaning HRG, meaning Mr. Bennet's organization. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:31, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Theory Chart

  • The new format for the theories look really good - I think it's very clean, easy to read, and better-organized (there's actually some theories that aren't half-bad). It makes it a bit harder to edit/add, but I think that might turn out to be somewhat of an advantage? Most importantly, it lends us more credibility, even on the theories page. I'm all for it. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:28, 7 December 2006 (EST)

Sylar murdered Sanjog?

  • How is there a theory that Sylar killed Sanjog? Didn't we see Sanjog alive while Sylar was pursuing Claire and ultimately got captured? (Admin 20:10, 7 December 2006 (EST))
    • Yeah, well, on a page that claims that Sanjog is Shanti and Micah is Iron Man, anything goes, right? PS: I saw that.--Hardvice (talk) 20:23, 7 December 2006 (EST)
    • ETA: See the new versions. Now that the pronouns have antecedents, it makes a bit more sense. I still don't know why everyone's obsessed with figuring out how Sylar made it into Peter's dream ... I know if I'd just met a deranged psychopath, he'd be in my nightmares. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.--Hardvice (talk) 20:41, 7 December 2006 (EST)

Empty categories

  • I see we have all the powers listed in the theories page without any actual theories. Isn't this page big enough without these? Can we please ditch them? --Fcphantom 21:36, 8 December 2006 (EST)
    • I added them in because we have links to them on each power page. I don't really keep up with the theories page, so I don't mind if you want to remove them. I was just making sure the jumps led somewhere. :) - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:14, 9 December 2006 (EST)
      • If you remove the section here, please go to the referring page and remove the Fan Theories from that page too. Thanks, --Orne 17:28, 15 December 2006 (EST)
        • Yup. Already started. --Fcphantom 17:32, 15 December 2006 (EST)
          • Since the theories sections in the individual articles were also removed, we need to be sure we stay on top of each article to make sure theories aren't accidentally posted on the originating article, but on the theories page. (We're usually pretty good about this anyway, so it's not that big of a deal)... - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:07, 15 December 2006 (EST)
            • Good point. I added a Help:Theories page to explain how to work the Theories article, and made sure to include updating the originating page with the template. Hopefully, that will help n00bs do it properly.--Hardvice (talk) 01:14, 16 December 2006 (EST)
              • Great. And on the theories page, I added a link to your awesome theories help page (by the way, great example, "Peter is Sylar", evidence "None whatsoever" -- that's almost as good as your "Tim's Quest" template!) The help page is great, but I'll take bets on the number of poor SOBs that don't post because it's too confusing to add to a table... - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:44, 16 December 2006 (EST)

Peter's Dream

Added my 2 cents on interpreting Peter's dream. I think we need a new article on that, or at least a subsection in his main article.--Kaymeera 05:18, 9 December 2006 (EST)

Micah

Isn't Sanjog about the same age? Do we know for a fact that he isn't younger, even?--Hardvice (talk) 14:58, 11 December 2006 (EST)

Sanjog is 11, I don't know how old Micah is. Sanjog is definitely younger than Claire, though. Sanjog should definitely be included, though. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:04, 11 December 2006 (EST)
Both actors are 11. I'm not sure they say Sanjog's age, but Hal says he's making up for (x) birthdays with the laptop, and I'm pretty sure he said "11".--Hardvice (talk) 15:11, 11 December 2006 (EST)

On a related note, I seem to recall Mr. Bennet saying in Seven Minutes to Midnight that both of Claire's real parents had powers. Am I remembering that right? --Ted C 16:11, 11 December 2006 (EST)

  • I know he mentions her mother, but I don't recall him mentioning a father. I'll have to rewatch it.--Hardvice (talk) 16:22, 11 December 2006 (EST)

Sylar's victims

Eden was able to prevent Sylar from absorbing her powers by killing herself (Cite Episode Fallout) (Cite Graphic Novel). Can this fact be incorporated into what we know about Sylar's powers or victims? I think the theories on how Sylar absorbs powers can be broadened by this fact, I'm just not certain how. If the victim must be alive for Sylar to absorb the power, then how did Sylar absorb James_Walker's powers when he was frozen before being scalped? Maybe Eden shot herself in the brain, and Sylar must view the intact brain to extract the power.--AverageMan 15:07, 13 December 2006 (EST)
I'm guessing it had less to do with Eden needing to be alive and more to do with needing her brain intact. If she shot herself in the head, he wouldn't have a brain left to remove/eat/copy/study/make into a Christmas ornament/whatever he does with them.--Hardvice (talk) 16:01, 13 December 2006 (EST)
I'm sorry, I'm just picturing an Eden brain ornament hanging from what has to be the most demented tree ever. LOL! - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:28, 13 December 2006 (EST)

True Theories

If I theory turns out to be true, what do we do? I suggest removing it from the table, since it is likely the material will be covered in that subject's article. ---- Ohmyn0.jpgOhmyn0talk.jpg 15:57, 14 December 2006 (EST)

That seems like the most logical plan. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:19, 14 December 2006 (EST)
I suggest theories proven false should be removed. False theories would still exist in the article history, and this would clean up the page. I suggest a rule of thumb such as "enter evidence that proves the theory false and change the text to strike out and date it. Any theory struck out for 2 weeks can be deleted." This might clean up the theory page to show only the newest, most interesting, and still relevant fan theories. --AverageMan 09:30, 15 December 2006 (EST)
That's OK, but part of the reason we leave them up there is so dis-proven theories don't resurface again. Two weeks might not be enough time for people to realize their pet theory can't be true. We have to be sure only to remove totally dis-proven theories that even a cursory review of recent episodes would show. For example, that Linderman == Sylar. It may have to raise to that level of obvious before we can strike things. - Xanen 17:21, 15 December 2006 (EST)
Also, history has shown that there's about 0% chance that people will agree on what constitutes a disproved theory. In the past, people just went through and struck out theories they didn't like or that seemed implausible but which where still technically possible. I think we may as well leave them, if for no other reason than to cut down on the back-and-forth.--Hardvice (talk) 18:14, 15 December 2006 (EST)

Niki Sanders

  • I don't seen any reason why having an Identity disorder would necessitate Niki also having schizophrenia. I actually dated someone diagnosed with multiple personalities for a while (very scary, I assure you), and there does seem to be a sort of interaction that goes on inside the head between the personalities. I'm sure it's rather subjective: the girl I dated described a hall off which each personality had her own room, and whoever could get out in the hall was in charge. Niki's personalities interact through reflections, but I really don't see it as a form of schizophrenia. --Ted C 13:42, 21 December 2006 (EST)