Interview:Robert Atkins
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On March 28, 2008, Ryan Gibson Stewart conducted a phone interview with graphic novel artist Robert Atkins. Robert illustrated Pieces of Me and Bounty Hunter.
Ryan Stewart: So how did you get into comic book art?
Robert Atkins: I went to school for it. I'd say it's not necessary to have a degree to work in comics. But I tended to learn quicker and easier that way. I got my undergrad degree at Illinois State University in fine art, and then I went to the Savannah College of Art and Design and got my masters there in sequential art. It was a great opportunity because there, they teach the techniques of storytelling and storyboarding for comics. Concept and character design for any kind of entertainment, video games, etc. It was really cool--I got to go down there, and my homework all of a sudden became drawing three pictures of Spider-Man.
That's pretty great!
Yeah, that's great homework! I was really digging that! [laughs] It was really great, too, because all the professors down there were seasoned professionals. The quality of the faculty down there was just amazing.
Sounds pretty ideal.
Yeah. The department chair at the time was John Lowe. He was an inker for DC for over fifteen years. Toward the end, I had interned with him. About three months before I graduated, he had a good friend--Randy Green--who was working on X-Men at the time. He'd been working in comics for years and years, too. He was a bit behind on some deadlines and needed somebody to come in and help him out on some backgrounds. He would draw the main characters, then he'd hand the page off to me and I would put in anything that was setting-oriented, props, etc. He lived in North Carolina and I lived in Georgia at the time. So I would go up there on the weekend and travel about five hours, just for the opportunity to work with this guy. It was a great opportunity for me. I'd drive up there and we would crank out like ten pages in a weekend! I'd have to be pretty quick with drawing buildings and backgrounds, and he had it down where he could easily draw characters over a number of pages. So I was helping him get deadlines done. That was my first work, but I wasn't credited for it because I was kind of doing the production and just helping out.
After I graduated, I moved up to North Carolina and I joined the art studio that he was a part of, called Tsunami Studios. It was awesome, it was so great! I moved up there with my wife. They all shared an office space in downtown Greensboro, and they just kind of let me move in. I remember I had my own little art space. There were four other artists, and every day I would go in, and everyone was just drawing comics and working on this project or that. There was another guy who had a comic coloring studio just a few offices down. We all hung out and it was a lot of fun. I was there for a couple of years.
It sounds like a great environment.
Oh yeah, it was a really creative environment. Lots of fun! All the people I worked with had similar interests. We all kept our own hours--some days we'd be up there first thing in the morning and leave around dinnertime, sometimes we'd be up there drawing things at night. It was a blast. I really enjoyed it. About a year and a half ago I moved back to Illinois. I've got a lot of family in the area.
That's where you're from originally?
Yeah, I grew up in Illinois. We had a son, and he's coming up on two years old now. It was right after he was born that we decided to move back and be closer to family.
That's nice that you were able to do that. And you told me you're expecting another baby?
Yeah! We don't know yet if it's a boy or a girl. We just can't come up with any girl names! But we've totally got the boy name picked out. If it's a boy, I completely talked my wife into naming him after a comic book character. She had no idea! We picked out the name Norrin, the name of the Silver Surfer. So I said, "Hey, how about Norrin?" She said, "Yeah, that's kind of different." Well, then we went and saw the second Fantastic Four movie and she said, "Wait a minute, I've heard that name before. Hey, that's the name you suggested!" I said, "Oh, uh, yeah, yeah!" She said, "That's the name of the Silver Surfer! I can't believe it!" [both laugh]
Very sneaky!
I'm kind of hoping it's a boy just so I can keep the name!
So after you moved back to Illinois...
Well, we've just been here for a couple years. Since the time I moved to North Carolina, which was about four years ago, is when I really started working. It was right after I graduated. At first, I started just helping the other artists in the studio with their deadlines. I worked very much behind the scenes doing what is called "ghosting". In comics, that's when you have a ghost artist who comes in and helps the regular artist who is credited. But it helps get the book done. I never got any credit in those books, but it was a great opportunity for me to learn from these guys.
I would say my first solo published work was for G.I. Joe, working for Devil's Due Publishing. At the time, they had the rights for the G.I. Joe property. So the first thing I did for them was the Snake-Eyes: Declassified, which was the origin story for Snake-Eyes and G.I. Joe. That was about three and a half years ago.
And you did two issues of Snake-Eyes?
Yeah, two issues. Since then, I kind of hopped around on different projects for them--inking, coloring, and penciling various titles. Last summer, I did some work for Marvel--my first Marvel work. It was what they call a special project. It wasn't a regular book that hit the shelves, it was for a third party company who hires Marvel Comics to do a comic for them. So I got to work with them on that.
That must have been great working for a much bigger name like Marvel.
Oh gosh, it was wonderful! Especially Marvel--I grew up loving Marvel comics! It was a blast! I mean, the first project I did was only a twelve-page story, but it had the Incredible Hulk, the Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, and Iron Man, all in the same story.
What a lineup!
[in little kid's voice] "Woo hoo, this is the best!" It was so cool.
When you're drawing established characters who have been so beloved even since before we were born, is there more pressure to get them "just right"?
I would say yeah, you get a little anxious to hear the feedback, if somebody hates it or if they really enjoy it. But the project I did really wasn't put out there for the mainstream. There wasn't a huge amount of backlash or anything. [laughs]
Well, I've seen what you've done in the past, and I think the quality of the art all but guarantees that there wouldn't be a backlash anyway.
[laughs] As you break into comics, you really have to pay your dues, meaning that you're going to get all the projects that are just totally dumped on you. Like with that project, I had fourteen days to do twelve pages, and it had to be done. I wish I had more time to really do pre-concept character designs to really get a feel for the way I wanted the characters to look. But as it was, I was just lucky to get it done in time. You do the best you can with the time you have. There are certainly hundreds and thousands of artists out there who are way better than I am. So I think the only reason I'm getting work in comics is because an artist has to be proficient enough, but you also have to meet that deadline. You really have to know when it just looks good enough; as long as that storytelling is clear, what elements are necessary to get that across? So yeah, especially with characters like the Fantastic Four or these bigger name, higher profile characters, you want it to look great, but the schedule doesn't always allow for it.
So you have done penciling, inking, and coloring? Can you tell me a bit about the process?
As far as process goes, I would say my most experience is with penciling. What will happen is I will get an email, usually from an editor offering me a job. Or I'll get a phone call, just to see if I'm available, if I can fit it within my deadlines. If I agree to do it, I'll get emailed the script. All this is usually orchestrated through the editor. So you have a writer who has to put together a script. For comics, it's typically twenty to twenty-four pages long, but for Heroes, it's just a six-page sequence. So I get that script in an email. Then the way I do it, I print it out and I read through it. As you read it, you kind of visualize the different shots and camera angles. I'll do little thumbnail drawings and sketches.
Like a layout?
Yeah, a real basic layout in the margins of the script. It's real impulsive, just what I'm thinking of at the time.
Most of the comic book scripts I've seen are laid out by page, and then by panel, correct?
Yeah, but it varies. Typically there's a format that's pretty much followed throughout the industry where it's broken down, like you said, by page and then by panel. Pretty much like a screenplay. This person says this, this is his dialogue, this is the description of the scene. Now, that can be incredibly tight, where they will give you camera angles, suggestions, or even links to specific references you can find on the internet. Sometimes it can get very, very detailed, and very informative. But on the other hand, I once had a G.I. Joe book that was like, "For the next three pages, people fight." I was like, "Um, okay!" So it was totally up to me to choreograph it.
That has its benefits and its drawbacks, of course.
Exactly. It gives you a lot of freedom, and it's a really fun, creative way to expand yourself. It becomes a great challenge. But at the same time... [laughs] ... ya gotta come up with it all!
Yeah, you're basically the writer at that point.
Yeah. And if you're under a deadline, that can be real tough. When I was starting out, I really liked the tight scripts because it just took that part out of the process. I could just stick to the script, do the job the way they wanted it, and get it done. As I've gotten a little more experience, I'll deviate from the script when I think there's a better solution than what's suggested. And I've never had an editor come back and say, "That was a mistake." For the most part, writers are very respectful of the artists and vice versa. Writers really leave it open for the artists to do their job--to pick the camera angles, to choose how best to pace it, or to work that particular page. There are some times where you might really want to focus on a panel and you want to make it bigger, or you might want to bump a panel to the next page, or something like that (thought that's a little more extreme). But for the most part, you don't really mess with the script. You just kind of take the scripts and by page, you lay it out and compose it in the best way to tell that story. So that's the penciler's job: you take the script and you translate it on to the page.
The page we work on is 11×17: 11 inches across, 17 inches tall. It's a pretty big sheet of paper. For comics, it will be reduced to a page that is just under seven inches by ten inches. The purpose of that is just to get all that detail in there and not be a minuscule drawing. So you break it down into the panels. The thing about penciling, especially comics, is that it's challenging in that you really have to be able to draw everything. You have to be able to draw these fantastical things that are happening, but it has to be based physically in a real-world environment for those things to look so fantastic. If that's the case, you have to represent the real world in a believable enough way so that people can accept that. If they can accept the real-world setting, it becomes easier or more exciting to see in the superhero comics. Or even with the Heroes online stuff, when somebody uses a power, it really pops out because typically it's surrounded by such realism. Everyday situations or things you can relate to. Because you can relate to that, when somebody does use a power or when something extraordinary happens, it's really going to stand out.
That's one of the hallmarks of the Heroes universe: everything is based in a realistic world. Tim Kring has said numerous times that the show should always be an extension of reality. What would happen if real people evolved in a way we haven't seen before?
Yeah, yeah. I think that that premise of the show is what really sells. It's the idea that it could be anybody on the street, and you just don't know what they're capable of. When you do see it, it becomes that much more intriguing.
So back to process...
Yes. After I finish penciling this, typically I would send it off to an inker, usually by FedEx. You don't have to work in a studio--I can work anywhere! Everything is mostly done by email. You can scan it in or FedEx it. So I would send my pages to an inker and he goes over all the pencil lines with ink. Usually he uses a brush or a technical pen or a charcoal pen. The job of the inker is really to separate the pencils, to give depth to the line work, to give textures which will help solidify the environment, and to do certain special effects. What it does is make the art black and white so it becomes reproducible and a lot cleaner.
Now your pencil pages for Heroes were not inked, right?
That's correct. Now I would say that that's something that's only become available in the last three or four years or more. It's a fairly recent development that you can scan in your pencils with a high enough quality that they can take those pencils if they're clean enough. You have to pencil it tight enough, meaning you can't have a lot of sketchy stray lines, you have to be very meticulous as far as keeping your page from smudging (otherwise it would gray out everything). But even after I scan it in I have to touch it up a bit in PhotoShop. I mess with the levels and the contrast. I get it as dark as I can without getting it too muddy. It becomes a lot of work on the penciler's stage because you're skipping another stage. But then I would scan in my pencils and send the file to my editor who then sends them to the colorist, and they just color directly on the pencils.
Is that done by hand or by computer, or--
Basically, if something is inked or if it's coming straight from pencil, it gets scanned in, sent straight to the colorist, and it becomes a digital file from here on out. Everything is done on the computer from that stage on. So the colorist will take it and typically use PhotoShop (sometimes Corel Painter) and separate it, all the colors are applied, the special effects. The purpose of coloring is to set a mood and to establish how things ?look in a realistic environment. Very much like a painter, a colorist can set the mood, set the composition, emphasize certain things, push other things to the background.
Right. Looking at the scenes that took place in Rondo Ferguson's office, there are a lot of oranges and browns used. Then outside, the colors are a lot more lifelike. But then in the two scenes where Linda uses her power, there's that really ethereal blue glow. Everything is blue and there's a very otherworldly feel to it. It's neat to compare the colored pages with your penciled pages, because that supernatural feel is simply not evident (nor should it be). The coloring adds so much.
Oh, absolutely. That's part of the process. The comic book process is very much an assembly line process. I think I had a great opportunity in that I've been able to do each step in the process. I certainly respect the artists who do come in that I collaborate with. Just because I'm the one who initially translates the script doesn't make my job any more important than the people who ink it, do all the separations, color it, or give life to that drawing. The pencils are what they are; it's not the whole package.
An example of the flip side of that comes from Jason Badower. He recently talked on his blog about this wonderful line drawing he did of George Takei as Kaito Nakamura, and it was spot on. But then he blames himself for really screwing it up when he added color to the portrait, and it just lost its integrity. He got quite a bit of flack for it on the message boards. It's amazing how much one part of the process, like coloring, can really make or break a piece of art.
Definitely, it really does. Part of it is that the coloring stage is the last stage of the process. I mean, when you hand your work over to another artist, you really put your neck on the line. You really want them to do the best job they can and you really hope it comes together. But in that situation, just due to the nature of colors, it's going to emphasize certain things that you normally wouldn't look at. If you're looking at a greytone drawing, you're going to see the whole thing. When it's colored, you're automatically going to be drawn to certain aspects of it. With the pencil drawing, you're focusing on the facial characteristics and the emotions. When the colors are put in, it draws your eyes to different places and you lose that impact.
That's one reason I'm so glad you share your pencil drawings because it lets fans see that stage of the process, unfettered by anything else.
Yeah. When I was really getting in to art and really excited about it, I remember the first time I saw just the line art for a comic book. It blew me away because I had only seen the finished product. There is a lot of detail that you don't see otherwise. When you go from pencils to colors, things can get kind of washed out, and that's just due to the nature of the process. That's why you would preferably ink everything--it makes all your blacks solid black. And that can help set the mood. In Pieces of Me, on the second page, in the last panel, where Ryan Covington is walking toward the light