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Talk:Faith and religion

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Rename

  • "God and religion" seems redundant. Perhaps "Faith and religion" or just "Faith?" (Admin 12:42, 18 March 2007 (EDT))
    • I don't mind "God and religion", since they're not necessarily the same. Take the references to Kali in Monsters, for instance. But "faith" is fine, too. Doesn't really matter to me.... — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:27, 18 March 2007 (EDT)
      • I dunno. I can kind of see Admin's point. I mean, Kali is both a god and the subject of a religion, right? I just like "God and religion" because it abbreviates to Gn'R, but that's admittedly not really a reason to keep it where it is.--Hardvice (talk) 14:38, 18 March 2007 (EDT)
        • God is a part of some religions, but not necessarily all. Plus a religion is mostly a specific institution whereas faith is more abstract. I think the article could cover more material changed to "Faith and religion." For instance if one of the characters mentions a "higher power" without actually calling that power God then it wouldn't be accurate to assume that's what they're referring to. (Admin 14:41, 18 March 2007 (EDT))
          • Good point. Yeah, "faith" is fine with me ... unless Candace's nickname ever pops up. :) — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:43, 18 March 2007 (EDT)
            • Yeah, that's why afterwards I didn't want to just go with Faith. Instant disambig right there. heh. But I do believe "Faith and religion" covers nicely the intention of the article and is not too unintentionally specific in its title. (Admin 14:45, 18 March 2007 (EDT))
  • I would suggest a name change of Christianity --Pinkkeith 13:26, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Corinthian Casino

  • This is a good note, but the way it's worded right now makes it sound like the use of "Corinthian" instead of "Corinth" is necessarily meaningful, which it isn't. "Corinthian" is just an adjective meaning "from Corinth". In fact, my guess is that the whole casino is meant to be a nod to the "Venetian" (not "Venice") Casino in real-world Las Vegas, a similarly gawdawful casino which does to poor Venice what the Corinthian appears from its website to do to Corinth. I'm not sure exactly how to reword it to be less speculative, but we should be noting the coincidence, not implying a connection.--Hardvice (talk) 17:23, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
    • That's why I put it shares a name, and at the end the relationship is noted. I never stated it was a factual relationship.--Bob 17:41, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
      • That's just it: the wording (the relationship is noted) makes it sound like it Means Something.--Hardvice (talk) 17:59, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
        • Much better phrasing than mine. Thanks.--Bob 19:10, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
          • No problem. It's a great note; they could have gone with something without a Biblical connotation, after all, and given Tim Kring's background, I doubt they chose it haphazardly--Hardvice (talk) 19:30, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

Lead image

Any one have any ideas for a good lead image? Heroe(talk) 00:21, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

  • Right now, no, nothing. I suppose you could put a picture of Claire talking to the Haitian, or something, but nothing stands out. After .07% airs, I think something like this Jesus imagery would work well. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:43, 24 March 2007 (EDT)
    • Jesus imagery? I though he was just filming a Creed video.--Hardvice (talk) 13:46, 24 March 2007 (EDT)
      • That's one messed up Creed video ... Looks like Salvador Dali gone bad. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:40, 24 March 2007 (EDT)
    • The one of Sylar's apartment (I'd completely forgotten all about it!) is a much better image than Isaac "with arms wide open". Less subtle, and quite disturbing. Disturbing is always good. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:01, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Names of Biblical Reference

I really like this section. The writers have said they purposely chose Biblical names, and this is the best place to list them. I'm not sure I'm buying the Thomas→Thompson or Benjamin→Bennet references, but I like the rest. Well done, Ice Vision. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:51, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

  • Thanks. I don't know about those two either, it seems kind of far-fetched. I just added because they have their similarities. It's probably just a coincidence though. -- Ice Vision

Are links to Wikipedia entries satisfying enough? Or should the meanings of the names be included on this page, too? Might be important, or at least significant. -- FissionChips 08:03, 5 October 2007 (EDT)

Virginia

I thought it was a reference to the Virgin Mary because Virginia's sons name is Gabriel. Those two characters in the Bible are definitely connected. I just wanted to let you know, but you can leave it at that if you want.--Ice Vision 15:55, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

  • I didn't take out the reference, I only softened the speculation. Saying the name probably refers to something without any specific citation is ... a stretch. All I did was change "probably" to "may". — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:12, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
    • Oh, I noticed that part. I was just giving the reason why I thought it was a reference, but you can leave it at what it is now.--Ice Vision 20:19, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

Purpose of article

Before the start of Season Three, I didn't think that any characters really thought that their powers came from a super natural being. Most of the references to religion and faith was more of a way to say "I don't know" or "something I don't understand" more then "my faith in God". I think the opening sentence needs to be structured better then it is now "higher power" is a little too broad (that could mean a parent, a boss or someone else in authority). I suggest changing it to super natual. --Pinkkeith 16:17, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

  • Ando has called Hiro's ability a "god send". The Haitian has stated that his and Claire's abilities are gifts from God. Theres are from Season One.--Bob (talk) 16:25, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
    • Those references are more like saying "I don't know where you got it from, must have come from something I don't understand." Yet, I don't see any of the characters going around and preaching saying how they are chosen ones from a super natural being. In other words, it is not a theme, but a passing reference. It wasn't until Peter starting talking about faith in this season that it started to show as a them. Just my opinon. --Pinkkeith 16:34, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
      • The Haitian is deeply religious, as is Sandra. The Haitian directly states that God (not a god, GOD) gave him and Claire their abilities. Later, when he has the virus, he states that it's punishment from God. Sandra goes into a tirade with Claire and Ted during the end of Season One about God making everyone special when Claire and Ted wonder if God gave them their abilities. Maya becomes a nun because she feels she has to redeem herself to God for killing people. You make it seem like there is no higher belief in God, so they use the word sparingly, when there are deeply religious undertones for characters. A lot of this page is references, I agree. But there are deep religious themes in this show, and that's the point of this article. Also, I think you mean Nathan is preaching this season, not Peter.--Bob (talk) 16:40, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
        • Yes, I meant Nathan, not Peter. I still see all the examples you used as references rather then themes. Yet, I can see the Haitian as being one who is deeply religious. I also see Maya thinking that it is a curse, but she doesn't think that God gave it to her, in my opinon. In fact, in the show she's looking for a scientific cure for her ills rather then devotion and prayer. I don't see Claire or Sandra as being very religious. In fact, I think that Claire is confused why she has her power and uses the "god" explaination as something easy to fall back on rather then one of faith. I'm not saying that this article doesn't have a purpose - it certainly does, especially this season - I just wanted to see some clarification "higher being" is a very broad term. I changed it to "supernatural". --Pinkkeith 16:52, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
          • Maya was a nun! How is she not religious? Yes, she seeks out a cure from Mohinder, but her trials in trying to get to New York, she consistently talks about God challenging her. Sandra is definitely religious, rewatch Company Man. I never said Claire was, I said that she questioned whether or not God gave her her ability, and it lead to an argument between Sandra and Ted. I don't understand your logic behind this "god explanation" as a fall back. This trivializes a lot of people's religion! I think that just because someone isn't overtly religious doesn't mean that they outwardly wonder about their faith often. This is why this is a theme, because there are many characters whose faith and understanding are deeply affected by these abilities. I think the word "supernatural" is lending too heavily to your theory of extraterrestrials, and it has bias, so that's why I reverted it.--Bob (talk) 17:08, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
        • Okay, I noticed you changed it back to "higher power" again. There is reference to "supernatural" when people talk about "god". Perhaps you're more comfortable if we just use the word god then? They certianly reference that. --Pinkkeith 16:54, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
  • Just as some pre-Season Three examples--Guillame felt his power came from the Loa. Maya believes her power comes from the Devil. Both are higher powers. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:11, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
    • I really don't think it is a theme of the show up until this season, in my opinoin. Again, I don't think that this article should be removed at all (I didn't ask for it to be done so), I just think that the point of the article needs to be clarified. I think that some believe that it is about the reference of the Christian God, but I thought it was about religious references in the show (or theme in the show depending on your point of view). As far as Maya is concerned, yes she did believe that her power was a curse of the devil. Yet, once her brother showed her a book showing there was a scientific reasoning behind why she has the ability that she does, her faith was broken. The entire theme of Maya during season 2 was her searching for this cure. It was not her devotion and prayer to some higher power asking for it to be taken away from her. --Pinkkeith 11:28, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

Web episodes

Is there a section for the web episodes? There are some mentions in Destiny. Intuitive Empath 05:38, 12 November 2008 (EST)

Christianity

Shouldn't there be a page for Christianity? (The Haitian, Maya, the Petrellis, etc.) --Boycool42 18:38, 22 February 2010 (EST)

"Supreme Beings"

The edit (from about a year ago) seems awkward to me. Does anyone in Heroes even refer to a "Supreme Being" as such? It's been a while, but I don't remember anything like that. -- Caswin 21:11, 14 November 2010 (EST)

  • Which edit are you talking about? Characters often talk about God in some form or another. In fact, one of the episodes was even called Godsend. Off the top of my head, I remember scenes in which Kaito and Hiro were talking about having the power of gods, but that power does not entitle them to play God. I remember Claire and the Haitian talking about their abilities being from God. I'm pretty sure there were some Mohinderlogues that talked about God. I'd have to dig to find specific references, though. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:00, 21 November 2010 (EST)
  • Oh, I know that. The edit I meant was, at some point the opening paragraph came to read, "Some characters believe that there is/are a Supreme Being or Beings from which they get their powers." It sounds like a conscious effort to avoid mentioning God, despite, as you said, God being brought up on a semi-regular basis. -- Caswin 10:24, 25 November 2010 (EST)
  • I would say it's worth changing back... except for one other thing: I can't call any specific references to characters believing they received their powers "from a god" or "a Supreme Being", and only a small handful of references are listed on this page. It sounds like an oversimplification of the subject, and an awkward one at that. Any thoughts? - Caswin 13:42, 11 February 2011 (EST)
    • In Godsend, the Haitian says, "What you can do, what I can do, that is God." In Company Man, Ted, Claire, and Sandra discuss whether or not "God made me this way." In Kindred, Hiro and Adam (who is Kensei at the time) discuss the idea that some people believe their powers are "a gift from God." In Dying of the Light, Nathan says that he believed his ability was a gift from God. I don't know anywhere in the Heroes universe that the term "Supreme Being" is used. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 03:34, 13 February 2011 (EST)