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Talk:Villains future

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Name

Villains Future? I would of called it Formula Future or P.O.D. --Skywalkerrbf 08:10, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Angela's dream

Regarding the Ali Larter character; how do we know it's Jessica? Given the recent events, I'd guess ('cause guessing it is) that it is Tracy. Pierre 10:07, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

  • Since this is a deleted scene from season 2, I'd say that she was supposed to be Jessica. But you're right, I'm gonna change it now. Chrisyu357 10:46, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Alternate Future?

I don't really get, why this is an alternate Future. I know Peter changed it when he travelled back in time but since this won't be undone I think this is the actual present time of the story and will continue to be the main timeline.--Spielor 22:30, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

  • This is the future that was created when Peter came back. The formula was never stolen nor did level 5 have a jailbreak in his future. Since this is the future that is trying to be prevented, it is a possible future. --  Seclusion  talk / contribs 22:38, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
  • But I don't think they are trying to reverse the events of the formula being stolen or the Level 5 bad guys breaking out. I think they will just deal with these problems instead of going back again and change it all over again. I admit that Tokyo being destroyed and Hiro being killed by Ando is a possible future they are trying to prevent but these other more recent events will still stay as they are.--Spielor 23:03, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
  • How did Peter returning from the future allow the formula to become stolen? I'm pretty sure that still happened in his future. What was different was that the formula became useless in his future as those with abilities became looked upon as freaks, and were tracked, hunted down and imprisoned regardless of whether they were heroes or villians.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:08, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
  • Even though I still stand by my earlier argument, I disagree with you on that one. If Peter hadn't shot Nathan, Hiro would have been one of the hunted people and couldn't have opened his fathers safe, thus never allowing Daphne to steal the formula.-- Spielor 23:24, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
  • Hiro is in Japan now. How would they know about Hiro and how would word spread to Japan fast enough to stop him from opening the safe? It seems to me a bigger leap that the formula wouldn't get it. However, we don't know either way what did happen so all we need to do is say that on the page to be correct.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:30, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
  • I assume you're talking about the "The Butterfly Effect" section? I think it's there because those dreams and paintings are of the future, but those really belong in Angela's dreams, Examples of precognition, etc, not an article about a time travel timeline. Josh 23:42, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
  • If Peter hadn't shot Nathan, Hiro could have still opened his safe because the situation where evolved humans are hunted takes place 4 years in the future. We don't know when that began (nor do we know if there is a difference between the formulas yet...so it's possible that the formula from Kaito's safe is the one responsible for the mass ability distribution and thus the hunting of evolved humans). How do we know that Tokyo wasn't destroyed in the Evolved Future timeline, and that both are the same timeline, just currently altered? As it stands right now, this reads as two timelines going on at the same time, when it should probably be one timeline and a rift. In previous seasons, things were changed in the past without splitting it into a possible timeline (which implies that the future was altered, even if we were unaware of it...eg - Future Hiro tells Present Peter to save Claire, which he does, which would have changed Future Hiro's future, even though it didn't change thing sto be how Future Hiro intended, but theyre listed as one), so I think this and the Exposed Future should probably be merged.Stevehim 10:57, 3 October 2008 (EDT)
  • How do we know this is a separate possible future and not just events that now took place in the exposed future due to Peter's changes, or several different possible futures (EDIT: BTE confirmed it is the same future as the exposed future)? Or is it a temporary page to keep track of things that will all be eventually combined at the end of the storyline (as I assume it was with Season 1)? Stevehim 20:18, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

Exposed Future vs Villains Future

  • I strongly get the feeling that it's the same future, has anyone got any idea -- Futurepeter 02:09, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
    • I think it was confirmed that it is the same future by Behind the Eclipse.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:48, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
    • I don't think it's quite the same. Future Peter has messed with the timeline, preventing the exposure from happening in the same way. I would be inclined to call it the "Formula future", actually, since that's the defining characteristic. Angela's dream is so cryptic that it's difficult to tell how it relates. --Ted C 10:20, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
      • If this was the case, then Peter would not be able to go back to his timeline, meaning Peter travelled back first, then Hiro (alternate future) and in (I Am Become Death) Peter travels back to his time, so that would not be possible, cause then he would travel to the same time as Hiro because of the Butterfly Effect Peter already changed things. -- Futurepeter 11:22, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

Quote from the article: Karen Miller asked: “In last week's BEHIND THE ECLIPSE, you said that the three timelines we've seen so far -- the one Future Peter came from, the one Hiro went to, and the one that lies ahead now -- are all the same. How is that consistent with what Angela and Future Peter said about everything being different now that Peter has come back and changed things?”

You will see tonight exactly what we mean — small changes have occurred but one fundamental problem remains the same in the future no matter which way you cut it.

  • I have made a rough timeline of the exposed future - before and after:

S3 Timeline.JPG
Chrisyu357 08:21, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

  • Exactly. And the way it's listed now, we have Hiro being killed twice in the same future (once by Ando, once by a sword through the chest). Stevehim 09:47, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
    • I vote for one future instead of "Villains Future" or "Exposed Future", we should call it "Villains Future" (because that's what the volume is named) or "Formula Future" because of the Formula. --Futurepeter 10:25, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
  • this is the same future but the "villains future" is a bit further into the future than "exposed future"
    • Where was that stated? Stevehim 12:44, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
    • I completely agree with u that it's the same future. Further or not further, it should be called the same in my opinion. --Futurepeter 13:27, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
  • Could we get a consensus check on this? Stevehim 12:44, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
  • I kind of disagree, what I know of Alternate Realities disagrees with the writers. Assume there are infinite realities for a moment. Even if you dyed your hair blonde in one reality but not in another reality but it fundamentally remains the same they are still different realities. I honestly don't see why the timeline where Nathan revealed powers is the same as Nathan getting shot instead. Let's also look at it this way, the timeline Future Peter was from, it seemed that Evolved humans were being hunted (Like Future Peter said to Claire, "Let me fix this, let me go back in time to stop "Nathan" from telling everyone about us.") but when Future Peter brought Present Peter to the future People with powers seemed as common as common can be. There's also the odd fact that Peter would think stopping Nathan would prevent the nasty dark future he's from. From that point I don't see how they are even remotely similar. --Dman dustin 13:46, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
    • I think the similarity is that the formula 'got out,' and now there are lots of evolved humans. Initially, they were hunted and put in camps, or forced to hide 'underground.' After Peter travelled to the past and made changes (eg - shooting Nathan), the future was altered. This would mean that the future he left from no longer exists (similar to how the future where that Caitlin is trapped in, or the one where NY explodes is non-existent...or rather changed). If you don't like the term non-existent/changed, we could say it is no longer 'connected' to the present we are witnessing instead, and just exists as an alternate reality somewhere. The main bit of this alteration would be that, while the formula still got out, the evolved humans are not hunted, and just go about their daily business (eg - flying through the air, running through the streets, causing massive earthquakes, etc). If we suppose that this new future (from I Am Become Death) is not the same as the one fron the first episode, then we'd have to ask where is the Peter from this new future, since the one Claire shot is from the initial future, and the one without the scar is from the present. Now, you're correct that shooting Nathan didn't prevent evolved humans from being common, but it made other changes (eg - they're not hunted), which is why Peter got Gabriel's ability...to understand the effects on the future that specific changes in the past will cause. Angela's dream future will likely not "happen" now, due to Future Peter making changes (he did other stuff besides shoot Nathan...he teleported Matt to Africa, he told Claire to stay home, causing Sylar to get her powers, etc). As for the Tokyo (and possibly world) destruction future, we don't know how that's going to play out yet. The only thing we can say is that it wasn't the same as Angela's dream future, because, if it was, Hiro would have to die twice. ;) Stevehim 14:20, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

Consensus check

I wanted to get a consensus check on this since there are an increasing number of inconsistencies, and it's likely to get worse with each episode. The arguments are above, if anyone wants to discuss it further before voting.  :)

  • bump Stevehim 14:24, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

Merge the exposed & villains futures (include notes on possible timelines)

  1. --Darmenos 20:46, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
  2. --Stevehim 16:19, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
  3. --MiamiVolts (talk) 16:41, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
  4. --Referos 16:43, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
  5. --Pierre 17:48, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
  6. -- Josh (talk/contribs) 18:07, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
  7. --Futurepeter 01:32, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
  8. --Obi-Dan Kenobi 20:04, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

Keep the futures split

If consensus, then?

  • If we do get a consensus to merge the villains and exposed futures, what should te general format of the page look like? I tried to piece together one (very rough) possible idea here. Any thoughts or suggestions on better ways to deal with the information? Stevehim 19:09, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
    • The multiple infoboxes make things a mess, and separating into A, B, C, and D timelines just adds confusion. Separating the info, does make sense, just each timeline/batch of info needs to have a name and not just letters. The flowchart is confusing too and just gets in the way of the page. Also the latest version of the future, the I Am Become Death one, needs to be at the bottom. I'll make some modifications to your page. --SacValleyDweller (talk) 00:20, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
      • Looks good. The only things I see that would still need altering would be the infobox extending too far down, since it goes into the section of the first future (which I don't know how to fix) and the inconsistency with usng 'About' (should we add 3 more or delete the one that remains?). I also wonder whether the Marketed abilities future should be at the bottom...it was the latest one mentioned, but it appears to be ore closely related to the exposed future, and so maybe should be placed next (beneath) to it.

I also wanted to try and get a list going of pages that need to be changed. So far, I can come up with:

  1. The actual villains/exposed future pages need to be merged
  2. The future characters pages need to be merged on the portal and fixed individually
  3. The possible timelines page will need to be altered

Are there other pages that would be affected by this change? If we proceed, we should probably try to get most of the changes completed before the next episode, to save the extra work and confusion of not knowing where to add the new info. Stevehim 08:06, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

nominated for deletion

  • We've got a good portion of the merge done now and all of the information on this page is already on the new one, so I'm gonna go ahead and nominate this one for deletion. Please note that this actual page (ie - Talk:Villains future) has yet to be moved or backed up, so that would also have to be done before sending them both to the Void. Any objections? Stevehim 19:54, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
    • Good plan, page now seems rather superfluous. --Matchu 19:55, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
      • D>E>L>E>T>E --Futurepeter 11:59, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
        • Well, I won't delete it because it may be linked here and there...and since it's very much a fan-coined term, it's just as valid as "exposed future". But I will redirect it. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:30, 25 October 2008 (EDT)