Theory:Elle Bishop: Difference between revisions
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|[[Elle]] and [[Claire]] are being set up for a lesbian relationship. || The entire episode "[[Eris Quod Sum]]". || {{plus}} I know that NBC ended up retconning Zach to be straight, but I don't think they have those same issues with Kristen Bell and Hayden Panettiere.<br /> |
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:{{minus}} There's no proof whatsoever that they don't have those same issues. Personal opinions are not evidence.<Br /> |
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{{plus}} The double-entendres in the dialog are just too unsubtle to ignore. Even if it doesn't foreshadow anything, I'm pretty sure Tim was having some fun with the idea of it.<br /> |
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:{{minus}} It's just as likely that Tim Kring was foreshadowing HRG eating poisoned [[waffles]], or [[Mr. Muggles]] obtaining the ability to breath fire, or [[Elle]] throwing a plate of [[chilaquiles]] at [[Sylar]].<br /> |
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:{{plus}} *flirtatious* "Hey Cheerleader."<br /> |
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::{{minus}} This wasn't really flirtatious. The tone was more of contemptuous mockery. |
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:{{plus}} "We did it!" *Claire and Elle smile at each other, then Elle suddenly looks nervous* "D'you mind?" *they awkwardly stop holding hands*<br /> |
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::{{minus}} How can they be lesbian if they don't want to hold hands? |
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:::{{plus}} The theory is that they are being set up for being in a lesbian relationship, not that they are already in it. Moreover, the awkwardness of the hand-holding appears as a sign of inner feelings they may try to hide to themselves. |
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::::{{minus}} The [[Theory:Waffles|theories about waffles]] are more plausible.<br /> |
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::::{{minus}} The awkwardness of the hand-holding was more likely due to their rivalry up until that point. |
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:{{plus}} "I've been nothing but a bitch and you've been nothing but sweet."<br /> |
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::{{minus}} There are such things as platonic compliments. |
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:::{{plus}} Not from Elle. |
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::::{{minus}} Elle is a human being perfectly capable of expressing platonic emotions, despite her messed-up psychology. |
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:::::{{plus}} Outside the Claire+Elle case, which is under debate here, there is no case of her complimenting someone without having any sexual attirance for this someone. |
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::::::{{minus}} This argument is an example of ''secundum quid'', a.k.a. Hasty Generalization.<br /> |
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::::::{{minus}} That doesn't mean she's not capable of doing so. Claire was the only one who was willing to help Elle in her times of trouble. Just because she complimented her does not in any way suggest that she's attracted to her. |
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:{{plus}} "I was ready to give up, stay home, deny everything that's been happening to me. I was scared." "Scared of what?" "Of what I would ''find out about who I really am''." "It's just... it's nice to know that ''you're as messed up as I am''." *awkward smiles*<br /> |
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::{{minus}} Obviously referring to their broken abilities. |
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:{{plus}} Elle's ''You're fine. You're perfect'' |
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::{{minus}} Again, contemptuous mockery. |
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{{minus}} They have more important things to do.<br /> |
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:{{plus}} The theory is that they are being set up for being in a lesbian relationship, not that they are already in it.<br /> |
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::{{minus}} No point in setting it up if it won't happen, since they apparently "have more important things to do." <br /> |
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:::{{plus}} They have more important things to do now, but the theory is that it is being set up for the future, when they won't have more important things to do. Moreover, this ''more important things to do'' assumes that neither Claire nor Elle will be set up in an heterosexual relationship since, like you said, ''they have more important things to do''.<br /> |
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::::{{minus}} It's ''[[Heroes]]''. Claire is a main character. Even if Elle doesn't, Claire will ''always'' have more important things to do. |
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{{minus}} They are more like sisters (even with the resemblance)<br /> |
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:{{plus}} But they are not sisters!<br /> |
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::{{minus}} The note is that they are more like sisters, not that they are sisters.<br /> |
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:::{{plus}} In this case, the note is not a minus, since as long as they are not sisters, they can date. Interestingly, other notes states that they aren't even that close.<br /> |
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::::{{minus}} It is a minus, because it states that they are MORE like sisters, which means that a romantic relationship isn't likely.<br /> |
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{{minus}} They don't talk in a flirtatious way, just a normal way, like friends do.<br /> |
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:{{plus}} Since when are Claire and Elle "friends"?<br /> |
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::{{minus}} ''[[Eris Quod Sum]]'' |
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::{{minus}}If they don't even like each other as "friends", how can they become "lovers"? |
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:::{{plus}} Because love and friendship aren't the same thing. ''Opposites attract'', this is very true about love, but least (thought, admittedly, not entirely) true about friendship. So they could jump from hate to love at some point. |
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::::{{minus}} There is ''always'' friendship behind mutual love. |
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:::::{{plus}} Often, yes, but not always. Moreover, nothing says that any friendship won't happen in between. |
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::::::{{minus}} No, all the time. There is no such thing as mutual romantic love without a basis of friendship. |
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::::{{minus}} "Opposites attract" does not hold true for every single couple that exists, whether heterosexual or homosexual. |
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:::::{{plus}} Ok, it's not true everytime, but it happens often enough to be mentioned. Moreover, this argument was used against this ''how comes there is love without friendship'' argument, being a kind of situation where a romantic relationship often happens without passing through friendship (since the relationship starts from hate between the two individuals, then they both discover they love each other). |
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::::::{{minus}} That still doesn't mean it (opposites attract) will hold true for Claire or Elle. |
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::::::{{minus}} You just can't have love blossom instantly from hate, especially not companionate love. It's impossible. |
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::::::{{minus}} There is no such thing as mutual romantic love without a basis of friendship. |
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{{plus}} It would make the fan-fiction [http://community.livejournal.com/heroes_femslash community] ''very'' happy.<br /> |
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:{{minus}} Pleasing fan-fiction writers is most likely the least of the ''[[Heroes]]'' crew's concerns. |
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::{{plus}} Actually, the writers have stated that they do listen to what fans think. So if enough fans are in for a lesbian relationship between Elle and Claire, it might happen.<br /> |
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:::{{minus}} That's an incredibly stupid way to run a show. What if the fans wanted [[Sylar]] to become a giant hedgehog named Spiny Norman? I would hope that the producers have more integrity than that. |
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:::{{minus}} The number of Heroes femslash fanfic fans wouldn't be even close enough to convince the writers to throw in a lesbian relationship.<Br /> |
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::::{{plus}} Who said the fanfiction fans where the only one looking positively at a lesbian relationship between Elle and Claire?<br /> |
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:::::{{minus}} The point was that it would make the fanfiction community happy, not Heroes fans in general. |
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{{plus}} Kristen Bell has stated that Elle and Claire share a deep relationship<Br /> |
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:{{minus}} Deep relationships don't always mean romantic relationships.<br /> |
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{{plus}} [[April]] may have been a love interest for Claire.<br /> |
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:{{minus}} There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that is true.<br /> |
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{{plus}} According to the original casting information, April was meant to be a lesbian. [http://www.buddytv.com/articles/heroes/more-heroes-season-two-spoiler-7008.aspx]<br /> |
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:{{minus}} That really has nothing to do with Elle or Claire.<br /> |
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:{{minus}} Just because one character is a lesbian doesn't mean another character is.<br /> |
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{{plus}}Lust could come before love.<br /> |
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{{plus}} In all fairness ''MOST'' of the male fan base would like this...<br /> |
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:{{minus}} ''Heroes'' was not made to cater to the perverted desires of prepubescent teenagers.<br /> |
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{{minus}} Neither Claire nor Elle are lesbian.<br /> |
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:{{plus}} To be fair, it has merely been proven that they both like men, not that they don't like women. <br /> |
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{{minus}} This storyline would add nothing to the show. It reminds one of what David Mamet calls the "Death of my Kitten" speech.<br /> |
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{{minus}} Hopefully, the producers have more respect for ''actual'' lesbians than to concoct this gratuitous subplot.</br> |
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:{{plus}} [[Eclaire]].<br /> |
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:::{{note}} Oh, Good Lord.<br /> |
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:{{minus}} Besides, it already looks like Elle and Sylar are beginning to have a relationship..<br /> |
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{{minus}} Elle shot Claire, hardly a romantic overture.<br /> |
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{{minus}} Elle is dead.<br /> |
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:{{plus}} Elle was not shown dead yet (as of the end of [[The Eclipse, Part 2]]).<br /> |
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::{{minus}} Now she was, as of the episode [[Our Father]].<br /> |
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|[[Elle]] is the daughter of [[Meredith]]. ||None. || {{plus}} Meredith, Elle, and [[Claire]] resemble each other.<br /> |
|[[Elle]] is the daughter of [[Meredith]]. ||None. || {{plus}} Meredith, Elle, and [[Claire]] resemble each other.<br /> |
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:::{{minus}} Even if Elle survived, she would be unlikely to bear the child of a man who a) killed her [[Bob Bishop|father]]; b) tried to kill her twice.<br /> |
:::{{minus}} Even if Elle survived, she would be unlikely to bear the child of a man who a) killed her [[Bob Bishop|father]]; b) tried to kill her twice.<br /> |
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:::{{minus}} Elle was now shown dead and Sylar was cremating her at the beginning of the episode [[Our Father]]. |
:::{{minus}} Elle was now shown dead and Sylar was cremating her at the beginning of the episode [[Our Father]]. |
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|Elle will become [[Claire]]'s main enemy. || None. || {{plus}} They already have a strong dislike for each other.<br /> |
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{{plus}} Other heroes have nemeses such as [[Hiro]] vs [[Daphne]], [[Peter]] vs [[Sylar]].<br /> |
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{{plus}} In many ways, their personalities and lifestyles have been polar opposites.<br /> |
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{{minus}} In the episode [[Eris Quod Sum]], Elle and Claire seem to be developing at least a little bit of mutual respect.<br /> |
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{{plus}} Elle tried to kidnap Claire, then tried to shoot HRG; Claire, of course, took the bullet.<br /> |
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{{minus}} Elle is now dead (verified in [[Our Father]]). |
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| Elle is currently pregnant. ||None. || {{plus}} Being pregnant may be what is causing her to lose control over her powers.<br /> |
| Elle is currently pregnant. ||None. || {{plus}} Being pregnant may be what is causing her to lose control over her powers.<br /> |
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| Elle's loss of control of her power is related to the electrical blast that came from her body when Sylar tried to take her power. || None. || {{plus}} As far as we know, Elle has not performed a blast that big since she developed her ability.<br /> |
| Elle's loss of control of her power is related to the electrical blast that came from her body when Sylar tried to take her power. || None. || {{plus}} As far as we know, Elle has not performed a blast that big since she developed her ability.<br /> |
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{{note}} Elle stated she caused a blackout in four counties in Ohio when she was eight. (''[[Four Months Ago]]'') |
{{note}} Elle stated she caused a blackout in four counties in Ohio when she was eight. (''[[Four Months Ago]]'') |
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| [[Arthur Petrelli]] will revive [[Elle]] with his [[Rapid cell regeneration|regenerative blood]]. || None. || {{plus}} Elle is the most apparent candidate for [[Noah Gray]]'s mother in the exposed future. It would be remiss to leave that storyline unresolved.<br /> |
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:{{minus}} Elle is unlikely to bear the child of a man who a) killed her [[Bob Bishop|father]]; b) tried to kill her twice.<br /> |
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::{{minus}} She may not have a choice. She may have been impregnated by Sylar when they slept together. Also, Arthur has many powers at his command, including [[mental manipulation]]. He'd be able to make Sylar and Elle forget what happened after the eclipse. |
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:::{{minus}} Assuming Elle is still alive, she certainly does have a choice: she can terminate the pregnancy. And you can't assume Arthur would know if Elle was pregnant.<br /> |
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{{plus}} Arthur encouraged the pairing of Elle and Sylar. Perhaps he still wants them to work together, and thinks they would be even more effective, with Sylar relenting to the hunger again and Elle having a vendetta on Sylar for killing her.<br /> |
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{{minus}} Regenerative blood seems to be common only to those who were born with [[rapid cell regeneration]]; for instance, Claire did not bother to suggest that [[Future Peter]] should use his blood to cure a gunshot-wounded Nathan in [[The Second Coming]], and [[Future Sylar]] did not use his blood to cure [[Noah Gray]] following the attack by [[Knox]].<br /> |
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:{{plus}} Future Peter interrupted her, she clearly wanted to go help him.<br /> |
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:{{note}} It is possible that Arthur could use ''Claire'''s blood to revive Elle, as Claire was born with her ability.<br /> |
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:{{minus}} Future Peter used [[healing]] and not spontaneous regeneration to heal Nathan.<br /> |
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{{plus}} In ''[[Cautionary Tales]]'' Noah is shot in the face and presumably revived by Claire's blood, so it can be assumed that Arthur Petrelli's [[Rapid cell regeneration|regenerative blood]] he acquired from Adam Monroe will have similar utility. <br /> |
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{{minus}} Both Elle and Arthur are deceased.<br /> |
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| We did not see the real [[Elle]] at the end of ''[[The Eclipse, Part 2]]''. || None. || {{plus}} Elle was acting extremely out of character in the last scene. She flinched. She slept with the man earlier in that day, flipped out when she thought he died, but then she flinches when he touches her? And, last time he tried to kill her, she exploded. This time, not even a zap? Something doesn't add up here.<br /> |
| We did not see the real [[Elle]] at the end of ''[[The Eclipse, Part 2]]''. || None. || {{plus}} Elle was acting extremely out of character in the last scene. She flinched. She slept with the man earlier in that day, flipped out when she thought he died, but then she flinches when he touches her? And, last time he tried to kill her, she exploded. This time, not even a zap? Something doesn't add up here.<br /> |
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{{plus}} How did Elle get to the beach? We didn't see Hiro transport her there. As far as we know, he has to go with someone when he transports them. Plus, he still thinks he's ten.<br /> |
{{plus}} How did Elle get to the beach? We didn't see Hiro transport her there. As far as we know, he has to go with someone when he transports them. Plus, he still thinks he's ten.<br /> |
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:{{minus}} We did see Hiro transport her, from the Bennet house. We didn't actually see him appear at the beach end of the transport, but he most likely did it so quickly that we just didn't see him.<br /> |
:{{minus}} We did see Hiro transport her, from the Bennet house. We didn't actually see him appear at the beach end of the transport, but he most likely did it so quickly that we just didn't see him.<br /> |
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| [[Sylar]] didn't really kill [[Elle]]. || None. || {{plus}} We didn't see him complete the act. He had no reason to want to get into her head anyway. He already had her power.<br /> |
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:{{minus}} Sylar wanted to know the truth about his parents and believed that Elle was hiding something after Noah told him that Angela and Arthur were not his real parents.<br /> |
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::{{note}} Can Sylar find thoughts in someone's brain using intuitive aptitude, in order to find the truth?<br /> |
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:::{{note}} Although it has never been officially said, it seems like Peter was trying to do the same thing to Future Nathan when he had just recently acquired intuitive comprehension. He had no reason to cut open Nathan's head, since he already has Nathan's ability, but he talked about how he wanted to know what Nathan was thinking. It also seems like he is about to do this to his mother back at Primatech before he is stopped by Sylar. <br /> |
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{{plus}} There was a scene on a NBC promotional video of a scene with Sylar and Elle, with Sylar saying he's a psychopathic killer and Elle telling him it takes one to know one, and I believe I've heard there are no more flashback episodes.<br /> |
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:{{minus}} That was likely unused footage, like the "unaired scenes" on the DVD - possibly a different version of the scene when Elle overloads the grid in Level 5. That exchange is unlikely to occur now, given what the characters have been through together.<br /> |
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{{minus}} Sylar incinerated Elle's corpse in [[Our Father]].</br> |
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| [[Elle]] came back to life. || None || {{plus}} Elle could be pregnant and her baby has the ability to survive, so Elle has the ability while she's pregnant, and she came back to life after being incinerated by [[Sylar]].<br /> |
| [[Elle]] came back to life. || None || {{plus}} Elle could be pregnant and her baby has the ability to survive, so Elle has the ability while she's pregnant, and she came back to life after being incinerated by [[Sylar]].<br /> |
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Revision as of 16:11, 16 December 2008
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The following fan theories are about Elle Bishop.
For help on adding theories, see the help section.
Theories
| Theory | Citations | Notes |
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| Elle is the daughter of Meredith. | None. | + Meredith, Elle, and Claire resemble each other. - It is noted here that Elle was originally meant to be Meredith's daughter. However, the writers dropped it due to plot holes.
+ Elle is 24 (she told Peter in Four Months Ago) so he's older than Claire by five or so years. She may have been off visiting relatives or was with Bob (who may or may not be her real father) or Meridith may have gotten her out. There's no indication whether or not Claire had powers back then, Noah and Claude probably just got her out in time that's all.
• Her power is similar to pyrokinesis, but so far evolved human families rarely share powers.
- Elle stated that she is 24. Meredith is known to be 35. For Elle to be Meredith's daughter she would have been conceived when Meredith was 11, which is highly unlikely and probably too unsavory for a TV show. |
| Elle is Matt Parkman's sister. | None. | + Matt's father has powers and abandoned him. + Matt's father is/was in the company. |
| Elle is related to Niki somehow. | None. | + Just like Claire and Meredith, they all share some resemblance.
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| Elle is the sister of another evolved human with the same ability. | None. | + Many characters with electromagnetic powers are twins, sisters, or something else, representing a positive or a negative energy charge.
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| Elle is the sister of the future agent with a similar ability. | None. | + He would fit as the polar opposite for Elle personality. + Both work for an organization that deals with evolved humans. |
| Elle is the sister of the teenage patient with a similar ability. | None. | + The patient had the power to absorb electricity, while Elle seems to create it. Making their powers fit if they are twins/siblings. |
| Elle started the fire that Meredith and Claire supposedly died in. | None. | + In Four Months Ago..., Elle told Peter that she started a fire at her grandmother's house when she was 6. Elle also said that she was 24, making the incident 18 years ago. This comes within a year of Claire's birth timeline, possible overlapping it if facts are slightly inaccurate. Meredith would have been a reasonably young mother (around 20), and as stated in the graphic novel Hell's Angel she was living in an apartment complex, where many members of the same family can live. If this was Elle's grandmother's residence, Claire and Elle would at least be cousins, if not sisters.
+ Kristen Bell has stated that Elle and Claire share a deep relationship.
- Elle says that she set her grandmother's house on fire (Four Months Ago...). Meredith was Claire's mother, but Elle is older than Claire is. |
| Elle has the ability to emit electromagnetic pulses. | None. | + Noah Bennet was able to describe to Ted Sprague the way to emit an EMP from the perspective of an evolved human.
- Elle has never exhibited this ability. |
| Elle Bishop is the mother of Sylar's son from the future. | None. | - No mention of the identity of Noah's mother was made. Also, Sylar killed Elle's father, so it is unlikely she'd forgive him enough to have sex with him, much less give birth to his son.
- It's likely that Sylar's son will play no further role in the show. As that possible future will be prevented in some way.
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| Elle is currently pregnant. | None. | + Being pregnant may be what is causing her to lose control over her powers.
- As far as we know, Elle hasn't had sexual relations with anyone within the past three months. Though she may have had sexual contact with Peter, it's highly unlikely that he would actually have sex with her, given that he was just using her to escape.
- Elle is currently dead (verified in Our Father). |
| Elle's loss of control over her own powers could be related to Peter's loss of his powers. | None. | + Elle's infatuation with Peter and his ability to use her powers (which appears to be his favorite for fighting) could have caused her to inadvertently sync her electrical abilities with his making him the plus to her minus. When he lost his powers, hers went haywire.
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| Elle's loss of control over her own powers could be related to Sylar's attack on her. | None. | + Elle's didn't start to lose her powers until after the fight. Maybe Sylar trying to remove her skull caused her ability to somehow leak out of her. + Claire's powers also began to malfunction immediately after Sylar attacked her.
+ Elle has been through many emotional experiences, this could cause her to lose control of her ability. |
| Elle's power is synthetic and her sudden loss of control is due to the fact that she was injected with an imperfect version of the formula. | None. | + Elle said they did testing on her, also HRG said when she was brought in she was a just a normal girl.
- Elle's ability manifested during her childhood, all characters confirmed to have synthetic abilities manifested only in adulthood.
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| Elle's loss of control of her power is related to the electrical blast that came from her body when Sylar tried to take her power. | None. | + As far as we know, Elle has not performed a blast that big since she developed her ability. • Elle stated she caused a blackout in four counties in Ohio when she was eight. (Four Months Ago) |
| We did not see the real Elle at the end of The Eclipse, Part 2. | None. | + Elle was acting extremely out of character in the last scene. She flinched. She slept with the man earlier in that day, flipped out when she thought he died, but then she flinches when he touches her? And, last time he tried to kill her, she exploded. This time, not even a zap? Something doesn't add up here.
+ How did Elle get to the beach? We didn't see Hiro transport her there. As far as we know, he has to go with someone when he transports them. Plus, he still thinks he's ten.
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| Elle came back to life. | None | + Elle could be pregnant and her baby has the ability to survive, so Elle has the ability while she's pregnant, and she came back to life after being incinerated by Sylar.
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| See Also: 9 • Red • Time travel • Elle Bishop | |||||||||