Talk:Super speed

Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources	Episodes
2. Near-canon Sources	Webisodes, Graphic Novels, iStories, Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources	Episode commentary, Interviews, Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities	Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities	Descriptions
6. Possessor's name	If no non-speculative description is possible
Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine super speed's name.

Exert greater force?

• Exerting greater force wouldn't make you run faster. It would make you jump higher. At best, it could give you some kind of gigantic stride, but it's not gonna help you run up walls.--Hardvice (talk) 16:06, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

Super speed

• The power the agent exhibits is super speed. Common names come before descriptive names. Therefore we HAVE to change it. It is all in the power naming convention. Am I wrong? *eats pie to cope with Heroes withdrawl* Jason Garrick 16:30, 16 December 2007 (EST)
  • I'm not sure where they "enhanced speed" and "enhanced strength" are not common names comes from. I think it is, as "Hippolyta" and "Ant" both use "enhanced" instead of "super".--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:52, 16 December 2007 (EST)
    • It's all the same to me. And judging from the general disdain the community has towards power name changes at the moment, I'd rather not stir up anything for what I consider to be an even trade. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:54, 16 December 2007 (EST)
      • That doesn't make any sense. If Jason can show evidence that "super speed" is a common name and "enhanced speed" is not, then I think we should change it. That said, I don't think this is the case so it should stay the same.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:00, 16 December 2007 (EST)
        • Well, common or not, doesn't it make sense to change all "Enhanced"'s to "Super" to keep up with Super Strength, since Super Strength is canon?--Riddler 17:03, 16 December 2007 (EST)
        • That's my point. I don't see any evidence to prefer one name over the other, or more specifically, that one name is "more common" than the other. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:03, 16 December 2007 (EST)
          • Ok, then I've changed the level to "common names for abilities", end of story?--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:13, 16 December 2007 (EST)
            • I'm glad you said that. I shall give you proof! First off, go to any comic book store in the world, they will tell you the name is super speed. Obviously that is not my evidence. But! Grand jury if you'll turn your attention to exhibit A!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_%28comics%29 Once nicknamed the Scarlet Speedster, the Flash possesses "super-speed," which includes the ability to run and move extremely fast, use superhuman reflexes and violate certain laws of physics. Thus far, four different characters, each of whom somehow gained the power of "super-speed", have assumed the identity of the Flash: Jay Garrick (1940-), Barry Allen (1956-1986), Wally West (1986-2006, 2007-), and Bart Allen (2006-2007).

Among the other information provided on that wikipedia page there is other evidence directly leading to Super speed.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Speed

This is a link to a page on MARVEL COMICS . com. It is about a character in the Young Avengers named Speed with the power of super speed. The marvel.com people say that his power is super speed!

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Quicksilver

This is another marvel.com link to a more well known super hero also stating the word super speed.

The following links are other links that you can enjoy looking at that all explicitly state super speed.

• http://www.marvel.com/universe/Whizzer_%28Robert_Frank%29
• http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/
• http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/wally.html
• http://smallville.wikia.com/wiki/Bart_Allen
• http://smallville.wikia.com/wiki/Clark_Kent
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wally_west
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_allen

In the DC and Marvel encyclopedias they state that the speedsters have SUPER speed.

That's the proof. And there is more where that came from. Super speed is clearly the common name. Jason Garrick 18:19, 16 December 2007 (EST)

• No, super speed is clearly a common name for the power--not necessarily the common name.--Hardvice (talk) 19:24, 16 December 2007 (EST)
  • There shouldn't really be an argument though... if The Flash and even Superman have it as "Super Speed", that should classify it THE. In any case, we should keep it SUPER speed to match Super Strength and switch hearing and memory as well.--Riddler 20:07, 16 December 2007 (EST)
    • See, that's the part I object to. I don't think we need to be slavishly consistent, and that if we are, we're in for trouble when we have conflicting canon sources. What happens when we change everything to "super" and then we get a canon source for "enhanced memory"? Do we change everything back? Do we change half of them back? Do we ignore the canon mention of "enhanced memory" just to keep our names consistent? "Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." I have no explicit objection to calling this "super speed", but I do have a problem with using "making our names consistent" as the justification for doing so. Each power (each article, even) should have the best name we can give it as an individual article, without any regard whatsoever to what other articles are called. With the exception of canon source names, all of our names are, to some extent, temporary. They're our best guesses. They're not necessarily the actual name of the article. Why worry about making names which are for all intents and purposes guesses consistent? It seems likely to cause much more trouble than it's worth, particularly when the current name is every bit as good as the "consistent" name.--Hardvice (talk) 20:17, 16 December 2007 (EST)
    • I think that would be pretty pointless, seeing how "super" and "enhanced" in this case mean pretty much the exact same thing. --Hero!^(talk)_(contribs) 20:08, 16 December 2007 (EST)
      • That's what I'm thinking. Does this whole thing really matter?--Ice Vision (talk)
        • Okay, I have to say, it should be changed to super. I've never heard anyone say Spiderman has enhanced strength. Barry Bonds got enhanced strength when he took steroids. There is clearly a difference between enhanced and super. And Heroe, I totally understand what your saying but I feel there is a difference. I agree with Riddler. This one should be changed. Hardvice, yes, SUPER speed IS the common name. I can guanrantee you that much. It is absolutely the common name. I do agree that we should think of every enhanced page as an individual to prevent what you described. Jason Garrick 20:27, 16 December 2007 (EST)
          • Both enhanced speed and super speed are used in comics. Generally, "enhanced speed" refers to someone who is faster than human but slower than the frickin' Flash, who has, at various points in his history, moved fast enough to vibrate through walls, fast enough to enter an alternate "speed" dimension, and yes, even fast enough to go back in time. Characters described as possessing "enhanced speed" include Namor and Marrina from Alpha Flight (significantly faster than humans, not as fast as Flash/Superman types), Super Sabre from Freedom Force (around the speed of sound, but again, nowhere near Superman or the Flash), Wonder Woman (faster still, but nowhere near the fastest). I just don't see, based on how little we know about the agent's power, how we can categorically prefer one over the other.--Hardvice (talk) 20:44, 16 December 2007 (EST)
            • Most of the characters I've seen mentioned above so far for "Enhanced" aren't characters that are KNOWN for their speed. They're "enhanced" because it's just an extra aspect of their character, while people like The Flash are "Super" because that's their main ability.--Riddler 15:47, 17 December 2007 (EST)
              • Whether or not it's their main ability doesn't matter, it is a term that is used thus both are "common names".--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:17, 17 December 2007 (EST)
• Superhuman Speed describes it bettr though IMHO. Enhanced Speed doesn't do it quite so well; enhanced from what? If I walked really slow and then discovered I could walk a bit faster one day, have I got this superpower? --Tesphen 17:26, 17 December 2007 (EST)

Sources

Hardvice is right, both "enhanced" and "super" are used in the comics; I checked out Jason's sources, found this:

"Flash" in the NBC tv series had the ability of enhanced speed.

Speed has "super speed", but it is the power to increase the speed of atomic matter.

Quicksilver's and Whizzer abilities are actually called "superhuman speed" by Marvel.

In Smallville/Superman, almost every power is "Super", cause it's about "super"-man.

Now check mine:

I already gave Ant and Hyppolta from Wikipedia. Here's some more examples of "enhanced":

Marvel itself describes Shathra's powers as including "enhanced speed" and "enhanced strength; see here

Marvel also describes Captain America's powers as "enhanced speed" and "enhanced strength" here.

Since you are using wikia for Smallville, I also note that Wikia's marvel uses "enhanced speed" for several characters including Spider-Man and Crystalia Amaquelin, and it actually references DC Comics name for the Flash's ability: The Speed Force, heh.

• So, imho, both enhanced and super are common, and since enhanced was preferred before, it should stay.--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:50, 16 December 2007 (EST)
  • Good point. Another good point is that they're frequently used interchangeably to describe the same individual's power, depending largely on the phase of the moon and who is writing.--Hardvice (talk) 21:06, 16 December 2007 (EST)
    • So, we should pick one (perhaps take a vote to find which is more popular) and be consistent with all "Enhanced"s and "Supers"s. -- Lulu .:talk:. 21:08, 16 December 2007 (EST)
      • I'm not convinced we need to be consistent in changing powers with "super" to "enhanced" or vice versa. They're names which might change anyway, since they're not canon names. What if Hiro says, "Man, that Charlie, she sure had an enhanced memory!"...then we've got two canon sources, one which says "super" (Micah said it to Niki), and one which says "enhanced". Since there is no canon source for this particular power, either "enhanced" or "super" works. I'm not at all opposed to "super speed", but I'd hate to change it to "super speed" simply because we want to change all our power names to look the same. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:15, 16 December 2007 (EST)
        • I'm not saying that we should treat all enhanced pages the same. I agree with you guys. But I think we just need to do a little bit more editing on the power naming convention. I love it but I feel that it has certain flaws. Besides lots of the wikia's, I found The Marvel Encyclopedia which says superhuman speeds. I've always personally favored super speed because it is what I've heard all my life. In an everyday conversation would you say "enhanced" or "SUPER". :) And I must say, in every instance the Flash is ever mentioned SUPER speed is used, was used and will always be used. Jason Garrick 23:05, 16 December 2007 (EST)
          • Did you check my sources, Jason? Even The Marvel Encyclopedia uses "enhanced speed" for some characters.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:45, 17 December 2007 (EST)
            • Really? Oh. Which characters:? Jason Garrick 13:21, 17 December 2007 (EST)
              • Shathra and Captain America are two examples.--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:40, 17 December 2007 (EST)

Alternatively wikipedia has this really good list. [1] --Tesphen 16:05, 17 December 2007 (EST)

• Yeah, wikipedia calls it "superhuman strength" and "superhuman speed", but we don't always go the same as wikipedia.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:17, 17 December 2007 (EST)

Just a comment

NBC´s "Create your Hero" asked to choose an ability for the new character. One of the options was "Superior Physical Speed", and the option was accompanied by a small picture showing a leg running very fast. I don´t know if it was referring to this specific power (the running leg strongly suggests it, but I´m not certain), and I don´t know if whoever organizes "Create your Hero" is a reliable source. I have no idea if "Superior Physical Speed" would be an appropriate name, so I´m just noting it here. What do you guys think?--Referos 14:35, 22 January 2008 (EST)

• Although it is made by NBC, I doubt that they are using that phrase as the cannon name for the power. If they were, all poor characters should be refered to as "hippies". --Piemanmoo 17:59, 22 January 2008 (EST)

Reminder

This should be moved to the regular abilities section for Portal:Abilities and Template:Power, and have the GN tag disabled in the infobox after tonight.--Bob (talk) 18:15, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

• Thanks for the reminder. What's nice is that template:power self-updates once the category on this page changes--and that happens once the GN tag is changed. Yea, automaticity! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:01, 22 September 2008 (EDT)