Episode talk:Angels and Monsters

← checklist for I Am Become Death Checklist for Angels and Monsters checklist for Dying of the Light →

New episode checklist

see also current graphic novel and current graphic novel checklist

jump to table of contents

Episode Updates Episode article: ___ Episode screencap ___ Monologue ___ Summary ___ Story Development _X_ Synopsis ___ Quotes Update/add other articles: ___ Episode redirect: Angels and Monsters ___ Check that links from previous episode work ___ Update Currentep ___ Update Portal:Episodes ___ Update Template:Season3 ___ Update Template:Ep ___ Update Season Three ___ New interviews and videos ___ Add Heroes Interactive:Angels and Monsters ___ Episode commentaries ___ Update director, writer, etc. pages ___ Add Category:Images from Angels and Monsters ___ Update template:imagenav ___ Update template:image-screenshot ___ Update ratings Update Main Page: ___ template:aotw and archive ___ Next on Heroes ___ Template:Index ___ Update songs ___ Archive Spoiler:Angels and Monsters (change "aired=")

Character Updates Update Main Character pages ___ Peter ___ Nathan ___ Claire ___ Matt ___ Hiro ___ Mohinder ___ Noah ___ Sylar ___ Ando ___ Maya ___ Tracy ___ Angela Update character-related pages ___ Groups ___ Appearances ___ Connections

Character/Reference/Powers Updates Update other character pages as needed ___ Update Portal:Minor Characters as appropriate ___ Maury Parkman ___ Adam Monroe ___ Meredith Gordon ___ Sandra Bennet ___ Eric Doyle Add new character pages as needed: ___ Pinehearst employee ___ Drug dealer ___ Update Portal:Guest Cast as appropriate ___ (list actors who appear here) Add new actor pages as needed: ___ (list needed actors here) "Despoil" new characters and actors who already have articles: Be sure to add appropriate non-spoiler categories! ___ Stephen Canfield ___ despoil spoiler images, update source, etc. Add references to appropriate recurring themes: ___ Suicide Add examples of Powers used: Note: if an "examples" page exists, that's where examples should be added. ___ Rapid cell regeneration ___ Telekinesis ___ Telepathy

Miscellaneous Updates Events/Items/Things/etc. ___ (list other articles to update here) ___ (list new articles here) ___ Update Portals as needed World Locations ___ (list locations to update here) ___ (list new locations here) ___ Update Portal:World Locations Places ___ (list places to update here) ___ (list new places here) ___ Update Portal:Places Timeline ___ Update timeline Update templates as needed ___ Template: Characternav ___ Template: Actornav _X_ Template: Crewnav

New Images Get screencaps: ___ Episode title (650x365) ___ Episode lead image (300x169) New characters (200x250): ___ (list new characters) New groups (450x350) ___ (list new groups) New Events/Items/Things/etc. (450x350) ___ (list new articles) New locations (450x350) ___ (list new articles) New places (450x350) ___ (list new articles) All powers used (450x350) ___ (list used powers) All Symbol appearances (450x350) ___ (list new appearances) New paintings (full size) ___ (list new paintings) New prophecies/realizations (300x200) ___ (list new/fulfilled prophecies)

This episode had me...

All over the place. It was incredibly good, but I can't help but be slightly disappointed with the result of Canfield (there was potential there!). The pipe in Peter's head made me laugh a little. I've got all sorts of hatred towards Hiro at the moment. And Maury, well, I thought he was a kickass villain as soon as I saw him in Season 2, and to see him groveling is kinda... I dunno. Interesting though. Good episode! JackOfBloodyHearts 22:04, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

I agree with you about Canfield. And Hiro. They always seem to kill off the good characters (I hate you Hiro). Most of them as soon as they're introduced. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:08, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Do we know Canfield is dead? What if the wormhole was just a doorway. Dracomaster4 22:11, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Arr, see, I've been kinda looking forward to Canfield being some sort of big bad! But then... *imitates suction sound* GONE! Maybe he'll return somehow. His power was so cool. And they can't just leave Ando's story at that! But, while those did make me gasp in some level of anger, still an incredible episode. JackOfBloodyHearts 22:12, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

They seem to maintain that Canfield killed his neighbor with his ability. Besides... it's a black hole... Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:15, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Perhaps it leads to another dimension that only Canfield can enter and leave, and maybe his neighbor was in the void for all those years. And I'll bet Ando is not dead, I'll wager that the betrayal that Future Ando talks about is Hiro stabbing him. Dracomaster4 22:39, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

I think it would be interesting if Hiro ended up traveling into wherever Canfield ended up. I doubt it will happen, as that seems almost too science fiction for Heroes but it would be an interesting concept nonetheless. The writers probably left the vortex thing vague to allow for a weird plot twist like that. Regarding Ando, I hope he's not dead. You can be stabbed in the heart and not die, right? Grr. Hopefully we won't have to go through a "Hi I'm Hiro and I'm going to go back in time and try and save my best friend even though I can't change the past BAWWW I couldn't save Charlie but maybe I can save Ando" plotline. User:Paradoxical 23:28, 13 October 2008 (PDT)

I agree that it was a good episode. Hopefully Stephen's storyline gets continued. I also hope Hiro knew in advance what he was doing when he killed his best friend...Angela knowing what would be required to join Pinehearst and telling Hiro to take some of Adam's healing blood is my first thought.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:44, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

No one knows what happens in a blackhole. It could be a gateway to another dimension or parallel universe for all we know. Canfield can control it, maybe he can bring himself out too. I wouldn't say Canfield is dead, his condition and whereabouts are unknown. --Denali 10:13, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

We know enough about black holes to say that regardless of whether they turn out to be gateways to parallel universes or not, by the time you get close enough to find out you certainly won't be alive anymore. ;) (Admin 10:18, 14 October 2008 (EDT))

I find it hard to believe that they would kill off Ando since he is a fan favorite. Frankly, Heroes is turning into a soap opera with crazy plot twists. I wish the writers would look back at season one and relearn what made the show so popular. --Pinkkeith 12:48, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

The laws of physics do not apply in a black hole. The theory is that one can be assimilated reaching the point of singularity as you elluded to. The fact of the matter, there is no one to definitively answer the question as to what happens approaching singularity and what happens afterwards. It's an open debate as to what may happen in black hole but you cannot discount the fact that we just don't know, no one does and it's not contested in the world of science because there is no real way to test or prove any one's theory, yet. Heck, there is a theory out there than an object is broken up into billions of pieces approaching singularity and on the other end the reverse may happen and the object is seemlessly put back together. Another point, some evolved humans are immune to their own power. We do not know if Canfield is immune to the effects of the vortex. Maybe Canfield and his neighbor are long dead, or maybe Canfield is immune to his own power and still out there somewhere trying to find his way out. My point is, we just don't know Canfield's fate. I dont know, any other thoughts? Good discussion tho. --Denali 14:28, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

I missed the last ten minutes

Someone please tell me Ando isn't dead Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:04, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

• They don't say, but Daphne says to Linderman that she didn't like what happened, that she wasn't a killer.--Riddler 22:09, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
  • As of the end of the episode, he's dead. Knowing Hiro, though, he certainly has a plan like reversing time once they're gone. He's no killer. (Admin 22:11, 13 October 2008 (EDT))
  • Ohh.... please Lord don't let Ando be dead. :[ Adam Monroe. Adam Monroe will totally bring him back to life. Totally. That's the little scrap of hope I'm gonna hang onto for the rest of the season. Or what you said, Admin. But then wouldn't that defeat the purpose of killing him in the first place? Seems kind of pointless... but anything is better than dead Ando. ._.Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:14, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
    • I think he killed him so quickly to try to prove that he sincerely had turned bad. If he hadn't then they would have known he was bluffing. Just a guess, though. (Admin 22:16, 13 October 2008 (EDT))

What is Petrelli's Ability?!?!?

If Maury is squirming and submissive to him, then ol' Art must be pretty powerful!(Jrrenola 22:19, 13 October 2008 (EDT))

I'm thinking it could either be the ability of persuasion, or the ability to paralyze people, and his power backfired somehow. Dracomaster4 22:41, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

He may turn out to have a strong ability... or it may turn out he's just an influential man that Maury is willing to follow. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. (Admin 22:44, 13 October 2008 (EDT))

I think War Buddies hinted that he may have probability manipulation, but that's just a theory for now. Arthur's ability could have helped Linderman build his fortune, and I think even Maury could be frightened of someone who could raise someone else's probability of a slip and fall, or getting hit by a Mack truck at will.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:56, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

One way to interpret the episode is that he's a powerful telepath as he somehow spoke to Maury without saying anything and he invaded Angela's dream, but there are other solutions to those. Maury could of just been reading his mind, and Maury could of done that to Angela instead of Arthur. I'd say the jury is out on that one until at least the next episode. --PeterDawson 01:50, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

I'm more in line to say the invasion of Angela's dream was Maury's doing... Matt probably is too far away to help Angela, but perhaps Sanjog could lend a hand?--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:35, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

...or she could've just dreamed what he is going to say in the future.--Unfalln 06:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

I'm thinking his ability is more along the lines of empathic mimicry. Paralyzation, persuasion, telepathy, etc. could have all been abilities that Arthur absorbed. It could be another case of power heredity. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 07:55, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

Oh yeah, Maybe Maury was just reading Arthur's thoughts? And that's how they communicated? I can't believe I didn't think of that earlier, but there you go. I'm wagering to guess that his ability is something along the lines of persuasion, then. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 11:51, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

I was originally thinking along the lines you stated about his power being more like empathic mimicry. However, he should have been around Adam Monroe and would have absorbed his regeneration ability by now you would think. At least he would have Linderman's healing ability. But his current condition doesn't seem 100% right now. I even went as far to think that maybe he needs to be in the vicinity of the evolved human to use their power. Time will tell. --Denali 14:36, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

Claire

Could someone tell me what happened to Claire? I missed the last ten minutes and all of my friends are like "OMGZ NO CLAIRE" and I honestly can't wait until the episode is online to find out. D: Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:28, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

• After Canfield sucked himself up, Claire was driven home by Noah. She seems to hate him, and Sylar was egging that idea on. Noah said he was only doing it to protect her... hugged, she went home. Found out from Sandra that Meredith was gone, still going after Eric Doyle. JackOfBloodyHearts 22:40, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
  • Yeah, I saw the Eric Doyle part. Lol, his power seems like an inverse of Monica's... and that's good about Claire. I thought something bad happened to her because everyone was so distressed. :[ Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:41, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
    • Yeah, if you saw the preview then you know something did happen to her in the promo. She didn't die, but was put in an awful situation.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:00, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

What did Arthur say...

At the end of Angela's dream? Someone started to talk to me just then, and I missed it. JackOfBloodyHearts 22:36, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

He told her that she wouldnt be able to move, and alas, she couldn't. Dracomaster4 22:40, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

She's paralyzed? Oh my... JackOfBloodyHearts 02:27, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

I think it may just be temporary paralysis from shock, but it could also be Maury's doing or an aspect of Arthur's ability.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

New actors and characters

Matthew R. Wiese (image)

Milosh (image)

Andre Royo (image)

Stephen Canfield (image)

Robert Forster (image)

Arthur Petrelli (image)

BJ Clinkscales     BJ Clinkscales (upload)

drug dealer (image)

Ron Perkins (image)

Arthur's doctor     Arthur's doctor (upload)

-- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:49, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

"previously on heroes" + sylar's ability.

As it me or did that bit contain more footage from last week than was shown last week? Also, "I can feel your hate through your hand", a hint at an ability? --Matchu 23:47, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

• It wasn't just you. They've added things to the previously segments on multiple occasions. This time, I think they added Angela being there at the end. I liked that twist. Regarding the quote, I think Sylar said "I could feel your pain through your hand"... can someone check that? I think he was just trying to express empathy for Claire, and was a nice tie-in to the "operation" he performed on her head.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:13, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
  • I was actually reading that as being Bridget's power at work. --PeterDawson 01:52, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
    • Good catch. It might have been her power at work. Too bad they didn't give us some solid evidence like Sylar stating some new knowledge he gleamed.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:29, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
      • I heard that and straight away I was sure the writers were saying that Sylar accidently took all of Claire's pain away! --Unfalln 06:39, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

Images

I'll be spending part of the day tomorrow gathering HD pix from the episode. I'll of course get the requisite new characters, power examples, etc. Any special requests? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:46, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

• Daphne putting one of her folders into Mr. Linderman for use as an example of the limits of Maury's telepathy.--MiamiVolts (talk) 03:25, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
  • Mohinder dragging the dead drug dealer and Hiro stabbing Ando come to mind, as well as the obvious image of Arthur in bed. --PeterDawson 11:11, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

Checklist

Are we no longer updating the checklist? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:17, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

problem with maury...

how is he able to use his ability with nathan and daphne if he is locked at level 5... that's not convincent to me. if you keep track of the timeline nathan sees linderman BEFORE the breakout at level 5... future peter says to angela he put actual peter in a safe place and they are still in level 5 not able to use their abilities --cookie 14:25, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

• Perhaps Maury escape from Level 5 happened BEFORE the breakout. We never saw Maury leave during the breakout, so it's possible he left earlier. The biggest question I have about Maury is who helped him escape his own mental imprisonment.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:26, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

Who Saved Nathan?

In this episode, we learned that Maury Parkman was using his ability to render Linderman in Nathan's mind. Before this episode, I was under the impression that Linderman somehow used his ability to save Nathan. However, now that we know Linderman is a figment of the imagination, who really did save Nathan after being shot? --Denali 15:16, 14 October 2008 (EDT)