This wiki is a XML full dump clone of "Heroes Wiki", the main wiki about the Heroes saga that has been shut down permanently since June 1, 2020. The purpose of this wiki is to keep online an exhaustive and accurate database about the franchise.

Talk:The Company's founders

From Heroes Wiki
Revision as of 08:42, 27 October 2007 by imported>MiamiVolts (→Gallery: Re: Side-by-side comparison)
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Hooded Killer

So Isaac has painted a series of eight, most likely showing eight of the remaining nine's deaths. Kaito said "of all of them, I never expected it would be you." So wouldn't the hooded killer be a member?--Bob 13:03, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

  • I forgot that one....should we start off with it as a note, since we know so little about the Hooded killer so far? --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/4/2007 13:11 (EST)
  • This would make a great Note, but we can't confirm that the hooded killer is the unkilled 9th member. He or she could simply be working for the unkilled 9th member, or a manifestation of the unkilled 9th member's power, or something.--Hardvice (talk) 14:43, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

Bob

How do we know that Bob is part of this group of twelve? Did I over look something? --Pinkkeith 13:09, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Joe Pokaski and Aron Coleite in this CBR Q&A discussion, state that Bob is a member of The Group of Twelve.--HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/4/2007 13:11 (EST)
    • Is that canon if it comes from interviews? I thought we are only taking it from what we as the viewer watches from the show. --Pinkkeith 13:14, 4 October 2007 (EDT)
      • That's why it's in the notes section.--Bob 13:39, 4 October 2007 (EDT)
        • He does need to be removed from the infobox, the image, and the gallery, though.--Hardvice (talk) 14:41, 4 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Argh! I removed him from the infobox and then undid my remove when I saw the Notes. Now should I undo my undo? My thoughts: if the pictures aren't in, his name shouldn't be in the infobox. -- FissionChips 13:46, 11 October 2007 (EDT)
            • If there is so much info about Bob being one of the six, and Joe and aron continually talking about him shouldn't we just add him in the photos. I don't see how it'll hurt.Or we could write that he is a "possible" member. Jason Garrick 20:01, 14 October 2007 (EDT)
              • It's not in any canon source that he's a member. That's why it's in the "notes". Based on canon sources (aired episodes, GN's), there is no indication whatsoever that he was a member. So putting "possible" member is speculation, which should go on a theory page. However, since we know from the writers that he will be in the photo, it makes sense to make it a note.--Bob 20:08, 14 October 2007 (EDT)

Infobox Image

I imagine that at some point we'll be able to use the complete version of the photo of which the death threats sent to Kaito and Angela seem to be a part. -- FissionChips 16:27, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

Linderman as leader

  • Do we know that Linderman was the leader of the original group, and not merely a leader in The Company (which, after all, wasn't necessarily started by the entire group)?--Hardvice (talk) 17:41, 4 October 2007 (EDT)
    • No, we don't. It's only implied, I believe, because of Linderman's great power. If the 12 are the ones who started the Company (which, yeah, okay, they are), then Bob says that they were a group of "likeminded individuals". Sure, there may have been a leader, but I have a feeling they were peers and equals more than anything else. Nobody ever said Linderman was the leader. Technically, he's not even the leader of the Company, he's just the purse. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:28, 4 October 2007 (EDT)
      • From Cristine Rose's comments about imagining them meeting at Woodstock, I can't help but get the impression that they all started off as equals, and only as things soured and power struggles started did they polarize into camps with defined leaders. I mean, Angela (and presumably Dallas) definitely appear to have followed Linderman's lead, but that doesn't mean he was the leader of the group at inception.--Hardvice (talk) 21:31, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

Deceased Members

For now, can we italicize members presumed deceased? We know Charles, Linderman and Kaito are deceased. We believe Mr. Petrelli to be deceased. It might help us keep track of who's left.--NissanVersaDootDoot 17:57, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

  • P.S. I'm stating it this way because I'm only marginally sure of Mr. Petrelli's death. For the time being, I have a 0% trust in a word Angela says. ;) -- NissanVersaDootDoot
    • Good call. I've done so in the infobox. I thought about greying out (or Xing out) the dead in the image, but there's a lot going on in that image already.--Hardvice (talk) 18:28, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

...o_O?

Why exactly does "Lindermans Coterie" redirect here? ...Why exactly do we even have that page?--Riddler 21:38, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

  • It is a slightly odd redirect. It's used exactly once, and I can't imagine anyone either searching for it or intentionally linking to it. That said, it isn't really hurting anything. And "coterie" is a cool word.--Hardvice (talk) 22:06, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

Age of the Picture

My Tivo ate last night's episode, so I can't check - but did Nathan mention how old that picture was?

Two other observations: First, Charles Deveaux was already in a wheelchair when this photo was taken, indicating that he either fought cancer for more than a decade, or that he was always crippled. An interesting tidbit. The second item is this - could the woman to the left of Charles Deveaux be his wife? He is not, to my knowledge, identified as a widower, so he may have been divorced - and she was not identified as dead by Kaito. Maybe I'm just reading more into it than there is - but I thought I'd mention it. ZZ 20:16, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Unless Charles has a flesh-colored wedding band, he does not have a ring on his left hand in the photo.--Bob (Talk) 14:02, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

Image Map Problem

Is anyone besides me seeing a messed up image map. In my browser, the first three columns of the middle row get copied and rendered half-way over the top row. --Ted C 09:52, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Same here, is how is shows up for me. I'm using IE6. --Simply Agrestic 11:15, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Me too, and I'm on IE7.--  Lost Soul   talk  contribs  11:19, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I reverted the article back to the static image of the group for now. I'll let Hardvice know his map is having trouble in IE. (Admin 11:36, 17 October 2007 (EDT))
      • At the same time, allow me to also personally suggest switching to Firefox, it's a nicer browser. :) Even IE7 still has problems with newer CSS. If you don't have it already there are links at the bottom of site. (Admin 11:48, 17 October 2007 (EDT))
        • Problems aside, I would personally prefer having an image of the photograph as the lead image, and use the image map somewhere in the article's body. But that's just my preference, I don't have a strong opinion one way or another. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:51, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
  • I'm frankly surprised sticking a template call in the image field worked at all. I'll look into it, but it's probably not fixable. No great loss. I just thought it was fun. And what Admin said: Firefox is a much better browser, and this site looks much nicer in it (as do many others).--Hardvice (talk) 14:00, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Bigfoot Lover just patched the IE image map bug on BionicWiki, if you want to check it out. The bug is that IE incorporates the border width when doing absolute position, and this affects the 'top' attribute. The patch in BionicWiki's MediaWiki:Common.js allows for an extra 'ietop' style attribute which overrides the 'top' style attribute if the browser is IE.--MiamiVolts (talk) 18:36, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Just to be clear, does this affect all image maps, or just those included within other templates? Either way, we should probably patch it.--Hardvice (talk) 18:47, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
        • It is usable on all image maps made using a div tag, so it doesn't matter whether the map is included in a template or not. However, you have to manually add an extra 'ietop' style attribute to correct the spacing of each div as needed.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:10, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Took me a while, but I got it. Incidentally, this bug was only throwing it off by two pixels. The rest of the problem was just bad formatting.--Hardvice (talk) 19:28, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
            • Right, it depends on the border width and it only seems to apply to images on the map that do not touch the top border. Normally the border width is only a few pixels (in the BionicWiki example, it was off by 3 pixels), but those 3 pixels can distort the image noticeably, especially if the image is small like Jaime's bionic eye.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:37, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

Joanna Cassidy as Victoria Platt

Tim Kring: "We will be seeing more of the final five people in the photo (the older generation). The photo actually had a life of its own. It was very difficult to get all the actors lined up. And yes, the photo is as accurate as we could make it. For instance, the woman in the photo who looked an awful lot like Joanna Cassidy was indeed Joanna Cassidy."[1] --SignificantNumber9 12:10, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Also, at Joanna Cassidy's Welcome Page, it states in the "What's New At JoannaCassidy.com" section: "Joanna has just finished filming an episode of the NBC series HEROES. Check back for more info." If there's any more question, then you can check out this comparison using this pic from Joanna Cassidy's gallery. Seems Joanna's character has a scar on her left cheek... 'ROESian
  • Anybody recognize any of the other actors? -Lөvөl 12:25, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I think the guy that is theorized to be Mr. Herrera is Richard Bradford. I just got Earth 2 on DVD and there he was. I could be wrong but if anyone wants to check it, go ahead. - Modestoddesy 17:07, 19 October 2007 (EDT)
      • It certainly looks like him.--Hardvice (talk) 17:46, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

Multiple Photo Variations

I started a new page involving the multiple photo variations of the group of 12, then was asked by Admin to start a discussion of it in here, to see what everyone thought in regards to it being only a production snafu, or a true plotline arc being introduced.
Here is the link to my userpage showing and documenting several variations. I am pretty sure there are more variations as well, and if anyone is aware of others, please feel welcomed to add more to the page. Perhaps at some point it merit replacing back somewhere in the main namespace. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/18/2007 12:18 (EST)

  • I don't think it will ever stand up as an independent article, however the question is whether the content on it should be merged into Group of twelve. If it turns out the differences were intentional and part of the plot then the answer will definitely be yes. Until then we can't be positive whether it's hinting at something suspicious or whether it was just a production oversight. So the question is if we assume it's a production oversight would it be worthwhile to go into that level of detail including a gallery of the picture differences or does that digress from the point of the article? The answer to that essentially determines what level of detail we go into prior to finding out whether or not there's some plot involving variations of the photo. (Admin 12:23, 18 October 2007 (EDT))
    • I agree completely if it is a production snafu, then it shouldn't even be mentioned. I believe, however, because of the number of differences, and the mystery surrounding the photo and its members to begin with, that it surely can't be that many production snafus. You know they would be expecting the Fans to pic these pictures apart with fine-tooth combs. I really can't see them being that careless in regards to that many photos and photo differences. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/18/2007 12:27 (EST)
      • And I believe that in a production as big as Heroes, mistakes are made often, especially when trying to schedule 12 "bigwig" actors to pose for a picture on the same day. Shortcuts are indubitably made, and inconsistencies are the result. I'm not in the business of pointing out production errors. But it's true, there may be Something To It. I would put, at most, a note that reads something along the lines of "It appears that more than one version of Nathan's photograph exists. Whether this is a production error or intentional is unknown." -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:47, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Just made your suggestion change above. Is it completely off-limits to add a url-link in that note to the page with the picture differences? I would think that others would like to see what these differences may or maynot be, and wouldn't want to have to go and dig-out the photos of the differences themselves, since I already have them grouped onto a single page. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/18/2007 12:54 (EST)
          • The pictures are already uploaded here, right? It sounds reasonable to include internal links directly to the images in question. (Admin 12:56, 18 October 2007 (EDT))
            • The image links are a terrific idea. That way it still reads nicely, but anybody interested in doing some sleuthing can click on the links to see the images. It's nice that they don't clutter up the page for those who just want to read about the group of twelve, and not about possible continuity errors. Yet it's all there for those that so desire. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:15, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
              • No one's HDS has mentioned (did he get that from my post?) that the first time you see Nathan picking up the photo, you can see that the prop photo used also has a person in Bob's position with a lighter-colored suit. And yet, just a few seconds later, we see the front of Nathan's photo with Matt's miraculously-changed Kaito pic in a bag for comparison. It's all (probably) a deliberate error, because Matt has the sealed evidence bag with the Kaito's photo (you can read, when he first gets the evidence, that the bag has the box for "sealed" marked), and you can see where, unless Matt's gained a new ability, the color of the suit of the person to the left of Kaito has changed color. You can log in to 9thWonders to see this post explaining it. My previous two posts in that thread also are relevant. 'ROESian
                • Isn't this already in the notes section? (Admin 18:53, 19 October 2007 (EDT))
                  • So I got around to reading HDS's stuff and edited my previous entry accordingly. I know credit doesn't matter, but elsewhere I noted about that tan suit in Nathan's full photo of the 12, and I was wondering if he added that tan suit observation 'cuz of what I shared... At least no one at 9thW had noted that, and HDS posts there asking about screenshots, so I was just curious. 'ROESian
                    • I don't have a clue. You're welcome to ask him. :) (Admin 19:16, 19 October 2007 (EDT))
    • I agree with Admin that it should definitely be included if it's part of the plot. However, I'd say we should at least mention the variation in a Note even if it's just a prop inconsistency. We've done the same for other errors, like Mohinder's apartment number, Niki's registration vs. Nii's house number, the reversed symbol on the Kensei sword, etc. Usually, the goal isn't to point out that the producers messed up, it's just to note an inconsistency so that readers won't be confused by it. For example, if Mohinder's apartment just said the number was 613, a reader watching Genesis might think we were smoking crack. The note we have explains that it was changed in later episodes. And I personally don't think there's any harm in including a gallery of images, even if it is just a production error--again, we're just noting the inconsistency, not blaming anyone or theorizing that it Means Something. I for one went "WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED TO THE TAN GUY?" when they showed the picture, so in any case it merits an explanation. But if people really object to the gallery, then links to the pictures in the Notes section are probably sufficient (that's how we did the reversed Symbol on the Kensei sword). All that having been said, I think the shots of the back of the picture are stretching it a bit. The props guys tend not to be too careful with shots like that, because nobody in their right mind (which rules all of us out) is likely to care, and which is why you can still see Turbaned Chandra (briefly) when Nathan sets down Activating Evolution.--Hardvice (talk) 15:50, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
  • For what it's worth, Tim Kring said, "I just have to tell you, the photo has got a life of its own, because, logistically, it was so difficult to actually come up with this photograph that's used now and refers to things that are shot well in the future here. It was very difficult to get that all lined up. But, yes, the photo is as accurate as we can make it." [2] -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:18, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

Name of the Group: NUMERATI

Somewhere last season (or between seasons), I came across an interview or clip of Kring referring to the Group by name. It wasn't Illuminati, but it was something similar. Did anyone else see this?

Found it! It was an interview with Christine Rose (Angela Petrelli): "There are still a lot of questions that I hope might be answered in the second volume, called 'Generations,'" Rose said. "As the title might intimate, there will be more news about what's gone on before, what might go on in the future. I've been wondering if, if indeed Linderman and Angela and others of the Numerati (as Tim Kring refers to us), if these plans have been going on for decades, if Angela might not have born her children to be part of this whole plan."

I think this name should be reflected on the article's front page.

  • This could be a production nickname for the group rather than anything the group calls themselves. Interesting as a note, say, but I don't think the article should change unless we see "numerati" used in canon. --FissionChips 14:38, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

Gallery

  • Since we have the image map in the info box (awesome that it works btw), I think that maybe we should have headshots of everyone from the picture versus their character portrait in the gallery (like having Linderman from the picture in the gallery versus the character portrait of Linderman in the gallery). Just my thought on it.--Bob (Talk) 01:56, 19 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Not a bad idea. So we need Angela, Charles, Linderman, Kaito, and Bob from the picture at 200x250 for this, right? Would it be worth updating the image map to use the pictures from the picture as well? Does that sentence make as little sense to you as it does to me?--Hardvice (talk) 03:10, 19 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Haha I think the template should have their character portraits since it's identifying them outside of their existence in the photo, but as a group in general. I dunno, I like how it looks right now. Very nice.--Bob (Talk) 04:17, 19 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Yeah, now that I see it, I agree. In fact, we should replace the other folks with portraits in the image map as we meet them ... unless we get a nice, clear, complete shot of the photo to use instead.--Hardvice (talk) 04:20, 19 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Why'd the picture of Maury Parkman switch to a screenshot from Fight or Flight? All the other pictures are taken from the group photo, so why'd his change? -- Paronine 13:59, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Fixing it now. The file used for Maury's infobox was that picture, and someone updated it with the screenshot.--Bob (talk) 14:32, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I fixed it to use the original photo from yesterday. Please delete the duplicate photo. BTW, I think it might be good to show both photos (how they looked then versus now). We could have a new gallery called 2007 Gallery and rename the original to Yesteryear Gallery, since we don't know exactly when the photo was taken but we can assume it was many years ago.--MiamiVolts (talk) 14:56, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
        • That's why we have the image map as the lead image for the article. Thanks for the heads up, I deleted the duplicate.--Bob (talk) 15:25, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
        • I wouldn't mind having a side-by-side comparison, but I'd rather wait until we find out a bit more about the members of the group. FYI, template:prophecyrow3 is pretty versatile now and can handle different sized pictures pretty easily. However, the image map does the job nicely, though I think it'd be really cool to have a side-by-side imagemap to compare. Dunno, I'm just kicking around ideas. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:46, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

Abilities

  • I believe the whole idea behind the group of twelve is that they all possess special abilities (or else they wouldn't have even come together in the first place). If this is true then presence in the picture is proof of a special ability which, for the characters yet unseen, has some repercussions on some other articles. I don't remember the exact scenes involving the picture or the group of twelve, but if anyone could post evidence that the group of twelve has powers thehn it would be helpful. (Admin 00:49, 27 October 2007 (EDT))
    • Well, the only ones who are actually confirmed to have an ability are Linderman, Bob, and Maury. There's a lot of well-founded speculation around the others.
      • Linderman tells Nathan that Mr. Petrelli was "someone with great power" (Landslide). But I should point out that back during the Vietnam War, he was quite surprised to learn of the existence of evolved humans.
      • When Claire asks Angela "So you're like me?" Angela doesn't answer one way or another (.07%).
      • Charles Deveaux had that weird dream thing (How to Stop an Exploding Man).
      • The closest thing I could find for Kaito was when he tells Hiro, "I have waited a long time for a Nakamura to ascend...You have proven yourself worthy of our legacy." However, George Takei and Tim Kring have both confirmed him as an EH in external interviews: Takei told Howard Stern that Kaito's powers will be exhibited in Season Two, and Kring told SHH! that Kaito is an EH.
      • Regarding the group as a whole, Cristine Rose told TV Guide, "I like to think we all met up at Woodstock in the '60s and it was there that we found out about our powers." Food for thought. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:10, 27 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I thought the training scene with Hiro and Kaito, Kaito makes some comment, and Hiro asks if he's special too, and Kaito nods or something like that. But yeah, there's heavy insinuation about Kaito, Angela and Dallas being EHs, but no evidence so far. And the Charles thing, who knows about that until it's explained a bit.--Bob (talk) 01:56, 27 October 2007 (EDT)
Retrieved from "https://heroeswiki.ddns.net/index.php?title=Talk:The_Company%27s_founders&oldid=326431"