Talk:Healing touch: Difference between revisions
imported>OutbackZack |
imported>Altes |
||
| Line 76: | Line 76: | ||
*Well, freezing doesn't cover the water control aspect, telepathy doesn't cover painting the future etc. It is just an example of ability development. {{User:Altes/Signature}} 03:57, 9 December 2009 (EST) |
*Well, freezing doesn't cover the water control aspect, telepathy doesn't cover painting the future etc. It is just an example of ability development. {{User:Altes/Signature}} 03:57, 9 December 2009 (EST) |
||
**We both know that freezing is an unstable example to use at the moment with the current debate. Telepathy, even though it's very stretched, does describe how Matt is able to paint the future. --[[User:OutbackZack|OutbackZack]] 09:26, 9 December 2009 (EST) |
**We both know that freezing is an unstable example to use at the moment with the current debate. Telepathy, even though it's very stretched, does describe how Matt is able to paint the future. --[[User:OutbackZack|OutbackZack]] 09:26, 9 December 2009 (EST) |
||
*** Not really. Telepathy is the ability to control humans' minds. Matt accesses a plane of consciousness precogs use to paint the future. The connection isn't as clear as you might believe. {{User:Altes/Signature}} 09:30, 9 December 2009 (EST) |
|||
The word kinesis, also used as a suffix implies all types of movement or motions whether minimal or many, i.e. Pyrokinesis, an ability which can be controlled by a simple hand gesture, opening and closing of a hand, performed by Meredith who also made an inside of a shipping container extremely hot by touching it. This of course didn't require much hand motions, only a plain palm to surface touch. There are more similar example, yet just that alone is demonstrating kinesis. Now, Vita- a prefix pertaining to vitality or life is suitable in describing upon this abilty the workings of it. To heal or hurt vital organs explains the functions in accordance to the name. There are not alot of accurate titles ascribed to Jeremy's ability. Overall, I think calling it Vitakinesis justifies the means. — Mphyire 21:15, 8 December 2009 (EST) |
The word kinesis, also used as a suffix implies all types of movement or motions whether minimal or many, i.e. Pyrokinesis, an ability which can be controlled by a simple hand gesture, opening and closing of a hand, performed by Meredith who also made an inside of a shipping container extremely hot by touching it. This of course didn't require much hand motions, only a plain palm to surface touch. There are more similar example, yet just that alone is demonstrating kinesis. Now, Vita- a prefix pertaining to vitality or life is suitable in describing upon this abilty the workings of it. To heal or hurt vital organs explains the functions in accordance to the name. There are not alot of accurate titles ascribed to Jeremy's ability. Overall, I think calling it Vitakinesis justifies the means. — Mphyire 21:15, 8 December 2009 (EST) |
||
Revision as of 14:30, 9 December 2009
| Ability Naming Conventions | |
|---|---|
| The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order: | |
| Episodes | |
| 2. Near-canon Sources | Webisodes, Graphic Novels, iStories, Heroes Evolutions |
| 3. Secondary Sources | Episode commentary, Interviews, Heroes: Survival |
| 4. Common names for abilities | Names from other works |
| 5. Descriptions of abilities | Descriptions |
| 6. Possessor's name | If no non-speculative description is possible |
| Source/Explanation | |
| Jeremy Greer's assignment tracker explicitly calls his ability "healing touch". | |
| Archives | Archived Topics |
|---|---|
| Nov 2008-Nov 2009 | [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag]] • [[Talk:Healing touch/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error messag]] |
Summary
Ok, I feel we are not arriving anywhere with this discussion, so I will summarize the main points so that we can proceed in a more focused way.
- We were given three possible canon names from the episodes: "total life control", "life and death" and "healing touch". All three were explicitly given (i.e, are not based on descriptions), but "healing touch" is perhaps the most explicit as it was used to outright name Jeremy's ability in an Assignment Tracker.
- The Assignment Tracker (and hence "healing touch") might be an unreliable source since the Company thought that Jeremy could only heal.
- Our naming conventions suggest that names for abilities should cover all aspects of the ability. This would discard "healing touch". However, it is possible to have exceptions to this rule (see telescopic vision for instance).
- There has been much discussion on how abilities evolve and how we split/merge abilities with different/similar aspects. We have in the wiki both examples of not merging abilities (for instance, precognitive dreaming and precognition) and examples of not splitting abilities (for instance, Tracy's ability or the different versions of enhanced strength). So, we should treat each case separately. Let's focus on discussing Jeremy's ability only.
- "Life and death" doesn't sound like a proper ability name. This is a minor issue as having an accurate and non-speculative canon name is more important.
I think the main point is discussing whether or not to apply the "must cover all aspects" rule. If we do, Jeremy's ability is split from healing and becomes either "life and death" or "total life control". If we don't, we keep things as they are. And, please, let's discuss only Jeremy's ability; issues like Tracy or enhanced strength are actually debatable and should be kept to their appropriate talk pages or this will become a mess again. --Referos 20:44, 1 December 2009 (EST)
- What makes this name less accurate then something like telescopic vision is that the additional effect of Jeremy's ability isn't just not mentioned by "healing touch", it's the complete opposite of healing. After all, if Flint had developed the ability to manipulate water as well as fire, would we keep his ability as pyrokinesis just because he has an assignment tracker saying so?--PJDEP 22:24, 1 December 2009 (EST)
- It seems pretty clear that the company just didn't have enough info on his ability. Ishi and Linderman can be kept as "healing touch", but Jeremy , Peter, and the Chinese woman need to be split. And while "Life and death" may not sound like a ability name, it's canon.--Ratclaws 23:08, 1 December 2009 (EST)
- "Puppet master" does not sound remotely like an ability name, and it's used. Not to mention "Activation and deactivation," which is another ability that deals with extremes. If we can't come up with a better name for that, then I doubt we'll get a better name than "Life and death" (which is, again, canon). Whatever we decide to call it, it is clear Jeremy's ability is different. And I've said it before, but I'll say it again: We have no proof that Ishi or Linderman could kill with their ability, so saying that their ability is the same as Jeremy's is speculative. Hiro and Rachel can both teleport, but it is clear they do not have the same ability, nor do we list them as such. Just because abilities have some of the same results (teleporting, healing) does not in any way mean the abilities are the same. --Skullman1392 23:32, 1 December 2009 (EST)
- If were going to use "Life and Death" just because Noah said that "Jeremy can control life and death", then we should also change "Cloning" into "Multiplying" because Lauren said that "Eli was a Multiplier" --Darkfiremaster13 23:57, 2 December 2009 (EST)
- I'm not saying "Life and death" is necessarily the name we should use, but that shouldn't be an issue right now. I say for now, we remove Jeremy, Peter, and the Chinese woman, and give them their own ability page. We can discuss what to name their ability there. --Skullman1392 02:07, 3 December 2009 (EST)
- Also the cloning page has been nominated for a spilt into cloning and multiplying, so that's probably not the best example to use.--PJDEP 02:11, 3 December 2009 (EST)
- If were going to use "Life and Death" just because Noah said that "Jeremy can control life and death", then we should also change "Cloning" into "Multiplying" because Lauren said that "Eli was a Multiplier" --Darkfiremaster13 23:57, 2 December 2009 (EST)
- "Puppet master" does not sound remotely like an ability name, and it's used. Not to mention "Activation and deactivation," which is another ability that deals with extremes. If we can't come up with a better name for that, then I doubt we'll get a better name than "Life and death" (which is, again, canon). Whatever we decide to call it, it is clear Jeremy's ability is different. And I've said it before, but I'll say it again: We have no proof that Ishi or Linderman could kill with their ability, so saying that their ability is the same as Jeremy's is speculative. Hiro and Rachel can both teleport, but it is clear they do not have the same ability, nor do we list them as such. Just because abilities have some of the same results (teleporting, healing) does not in any way mean the abilities are the same. --Skullman1392 23:32, 1 December 2009 (EST)
- It seems pretty clear that the company just didn't have enough info on his ability. Ishi and Linderman can be kept as "healing touch", but Jeremy , Peter, and the Chinese woman need to be split. And while "Life and death" may not sound like a ability name, it's canon.--Ratclaws 23:08, 1 December 2009 (EST)
- "Life and death" was a description. And as "appropriate" as it may sound, a description loses to an explicit name given ("healing touch"). The reason we use "puppet master", despite it not "sounding like an ability name", was because it was explicitly stated. Puppet Master stayed, Healing Touch must stay. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 00:34, 3 December 2009 (EST)
- I agree that this page should stay "Healing touch" but I in no way agree that Healing touch is Jeremy's power. And descriptions are used all the time to name abilities.--Skullman1392 00:58, 3 December 2009 (EST)
- Only when explicit names are not given. Which is not the case here. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 01:02, 3 December 2009 (EST)
- How is "life and death" not an explicit name? Noah said "Dual ability: life and death". Yes, it's not smooth, but it's even more explicit than, say, "Bliss and horror, my father's tools" and we use that as an explicit source for Guillame's ability. I can understand that "healing touch" could take priority since it was outright named in the Assignment Tracker, but I don't agree that "life and death" is a mere description of the ability.--Referos 06:48, 3 December 2009 (EST)
- I'm saying that Jeremy's ability is not "Healing touch" and therefore his ability was never given an explicit canon name. --Skullman1392 01:05, 3 December 2009 (EST)
- Only when explicit names are not given. Which is not the case here. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 01:02, 3 December 2009 (EST)
- Puppet master is a different case, it describes all of the effects the ability has. However, healing touch is not appropriate considering that Jeremy was able to kill with the ability, something that is the exact opposite of killing. Assignment tracker or not, this is a special case.--PJDEP 01:53, 3 December 2009 (EST)
- I agree entirely with PJDEP's analogy about Flint and water control. We would not keep the name Pyrokinesis in such a case because the power becomes far, far more then that, incompassing the opposite of the original name. Jeremy's case is exactly the same- healing touch does not cover all applications of his ability, and it's not the most accurate name possible (Life and Death is, for me). This is why Jeremy and Peter should be moved, and Tracy's ability moved from Freezing to something else entirely. Swm 12:16, 4 December 2009 (EST)
- I agree that this page should stay "Healing touch" but I in no way agree that Healing touch is Jeremy's power. And descriptions are used all the time to name abilities.--Skullman1392 00:58, 3 December 2009 (EST)
- I still think there are strong arguments to justify a split, but I think we reached a stalemate; perhaps we could try asking a writer whether or not Jeremy's ability can be considered the same as Ishi's and Linderman's?--Referos 11:03, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- I don't think it's really neccesary, but that might be a good idea. --Skullman1392 12:41, 6 December 2009 (EST)
"Life control" doesn't fit, because it implies Jeremy was able to revive dead - give life, but he wasn't. And besides, healing isn't giving life. Noah was incorrect here... So the name should stay as "healing touch". 
AltesUTC CH 11:42, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- How does it make any logical sense that someone who has the ability of "Healing touch" can kill with their ability? It doesn't! Therefore, this needs to be split. --Skullman1392 12:41, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- Because that's the name his ability was given. How does it make any logical sense that someone who has the ability of "telepathy" can paint the future? Or that someone with "induced radioactivity" could create an electromagnetic shockwave? Or that someone with "poison emission" could UN-emit the poison and pull it back into themselves? These abilities have very fuzzy boundaries from the get-go. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 13:00, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- Many of these have been explained and others are just plain science; with telepathy matt is able to reach a plane of consciousness that precogs use to predict the future; with induced radioactivity, isotopes are moved around the body which creates the heat ted emits, but moving these around can also cause EMPs; the poison one is the only one that hasn't been explained. --mc_hammark 13:04, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- It is the exact opposite of healing. Why would we continue to call it "healing touch" when it is very clearly much more than that? And saying that it's "the name his ability was given" is not a not a viable answer because his "ability name" does not encompass all aspects of his ability, and is therefore majorly innaccurate and misleading. --Skullman1392 13:11, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- But it does not matter what is implied by the name. His ability was explicitly classified as "healing touch", on the show itself. That's about as canon as it gets. Doyle's ability is still called "puppet master", despite the obvious grammatical error. The show calls it "healing touch" outright. Thus, his power is "healing touch". And as for "why should we called it _____ when it is clearly much more than that?", please note that nearly every power in the show has expanded and evolved to do far more amazing things than could be originally assumed. Telepathy is one particular very strong example. Telepathy in the classic sense is strictly reading someone's mind (not even "hearing thoughts", it is an ACTIVE task). And yet, our definition includes things that have nothing to do with telepathy (persuasion, illusion, mental manipulation, precognition). Explain how it is that "telepathy" is still an acceptable ability name despite all its additional baggage, while "healing touch" is not. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 13:36, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- I was going to argue how telepathy encompasses all aspects we have shown, but I won't. We must focus on this ability. Anyway, it's true that "healing touch" was used to outright name the ability, but we can't simply ignore that "life and death" was also explicitly given! Noah wasn't describing the ability; he clearly name it when saying "He has a dual ability: life and death". Given that "life and death" has the same explicitness and canon level as "healing touch", but describes the power much better, why should we treat "healing touch" as superior? Just because it appeared in a (possibly outdated) Assignment Tracker? There's nothing in our naming conventions that state that Assignment Tracker names take priority; we just generally use them because, frequently, they are the only explicit source available. However, the naming conventions are clear that an ability name must encompass all aspects of an ability.--Referos 14:28, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- Using the assignment trackers for ability names is just a precedent we have set, that doesn't mean it will always be the best choice. If Jeremy can kill as well as heal, the name "healing touch" is not appropriate.--PJDEP 15:30, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- Life control can be a viable name. Jeremy heals and kills by, for the sake of argument, increasing and decreasing life in a person. He can kill because he decreases life until there is no more life, but he can't resurrect people because he can't "increase" life once there is no more life for him to increase. And in answer to the telepathy issue, everything Matt does can result from pulling and pushing thoughts, which is what telepathy does. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:15, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- On the latest episode Peter said that Rene "The Haitian" have: power negation and memory deleting. Two ability named as one, shouldn't we do the same with Jeremy? Let's take him out of the Healing Touch page and then decide what to name on his ability --Darkfiremaster13 06:47, 7 December 2009 (EST)
- I would like to point out that Noah said that the "previous case" of this was that the woman manifested as a healer, "but it had a flip side". Not "but it was a different power completely". It implies that this power is in fact correct, but had a darker angle as well. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 11:51, 7 December 2009 (EST)
- Noah said she was the same as Jeremy, if she manifested as healer and then grew to killing as well, it's the same as Jeremy. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:00, 7 December 2009 (EST)
- I agree, that was what Noah said --Darkfiremaster13 23:55, 7 December 2009 (EST)
- Noah said she was the same as Jeremy, if she manifested as healer and then grew to killing as well, it's the same as Jeremy. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:00, 7 December 2009 (EST)
- I would like to point out that Noah said that the "previous case" of this was that the woman manifested as a healer, "but it had a flip side". Not "but it was a different power completely". It implies that this power is in fact correct, but had a darker angle as well. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 11:51, 7 December 2009 (EST)
- Using the assignment trackers for ability names is just a precedent we have set, that doesn't mean it will always be the best choice. If Jeremy can kill as well as heal, the name "healing touch" is not appropriate.--PJDEP 15:30, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- I was going to argue how telepathy encompasses all aspects we have shown, but I won't. We must focus on this ability. Anyway, it's true that "healing touch" was used to outright name the ability, but we can't simply ignore that "life and death" was also explicitly given! Noah wasn't describing the ability; he clearly name it when saying "He has a dual ability: life and death". Given that "life and death" has the same explicitness and canon level as "healing touch", but describes the power much better, why should we treat "healing touch" as superior? Just because it appeared in a (possibly outdated) Assignment Tracker? There's nothing in our naming conventions that state that Assignment Tracker names take priority; we just generally use them because, frequently, they are the only explicit source available. However, the naming conventions are clear that an ability name must encompass all aspects of an ability.--Referos 14:28, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- But it does not matter what is implied by the name. His ability was explicitly classified as "healing touch", on the show itself. That's about as canon as it gets. Doyle's ability is still called "puppet master", despite the obvious grammatical error. The show calls it "healing touch" outright. Thus, his power is "healing touch". And as for "why should we called it _____ when it is clearly much more than that?", please note that nearly every power in the show has expanded and evolved to do far more amazing things than could be originally assumed. Telepathy is one particular very strong example. Telepathy in the classic sense is strictly reading someone's mind (not even "hearing thoughts", it is an ACTIVE task). And yet, our definition includes things that have nothing to do with telepathy (persuasion, illusion, mental manipulation, precognition). Explain how it is that "telepathy" is still an acceptable ability name despite all its additional baggage, while "healing touch" is not. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 13:36, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- It is the exact opposite of healing. Why would we continue to call it "healing touch" when it is very clearly much more than that? And saying that it's "the name his ability was given" is not a not a viable answer because his "ability name" does not encompass all aspects of his ability, and is therefore majorly innaccurate and misleading. --Skullman1392 13:11, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- Many of these have been explained and others are just plain science; with telepathy matt is able to reach a plane of consciousness that precogs use to predict the future; with induced radioactivity, isotopes are moved around the body which creates the heat ted emits, but moving these around can also cause EMPs; the poison one is the only one that hasn't been explained. --mc_hammark 13:04, 6 December 2009 (EST)
- Because that's the name his ability was given. How does it make any logical sense that someone who has the ability of "telepathy" can paint the future? Or that someone with "induced radioactivity" could create an electromagnetic shockwave? Or that someone with "poison emission" could UN-emit the poison and pull it back into themselves? These abilities have very fuzzy boundaries from the get-go. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 13:00, 6 December 2009 (EST)
Cannot be "Life and Death"
In rewatching Strange Attractors, Noah says:
- He has... what you'd call a dual ability: life and death.
The important part here is that he says it is "what you'd call" a dual ability. This implies a description, and not an official name. If he had said "He has a dual ability: life and death." it might be a different case. However, the use of "what you'd call" defeats "life and death" as an explicit name, and thus cannot be higher canon than "healing touch". --Ricard Desi (t,c) 12:42, 7 December 2009 (EST)
- Agree and agree!
AltesUTC CH 12:49, 7 December 2009 (EST)
- We've used descriptive names before, and while descriptive, it gives a more comprehensible explanation to what he does, which includes the killing part. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 13:11, 7 December 2009 (EST)
- Now I agree that it should not be called life and death, but I still don't like the fact it's called healing touch. Here's a good way to explain why Healing touch from the assignment tracker cannot be used. Peter has ability replication, yes? Yet Edgar called him an empath. Claude called him an empath in S1 as he had Empathic mimicry. So, does our descriptive name for his present ability, top what Edgar said he has. Yes. The reason for this is; Edgar got it wrong. Just like the company did with Jeremy. It started out as healing touch, yes I agree, but then it changed. Do you not agree that Jeremy's ability is not the same as Ishi's and Linderman's, because right now, before we decide what to call it, we should consider whether it is actually the same ability.
- I agree --Darkfiremaster13 00:00, 8 December 2009 (EST)
- Now I agree that it should not be called life and death, but I still don't like the fact it's called healing touch. Here's a good way to explain why Healing touch from the assignment tracker cannot be used. Peter has ability replication, yes? Yet Edgar called him an empath. Claude called him an empath in S1 as he had Empathic mimicry. So, does our descriptive name for his present ability, top what Edgar said he has. Yes. The reason for this is; Edgar got it wrong. Just like the company did with Jeremy. It started out as healing touch, yes I agree, but then it changed. Do you not agree that Jeremy's ability is not the same as Ishi's and Linderman's, because right now, before we decide what to call it, we should consider whether it is actually the same ability.
- We've used descriptive names before, and while descriptive, it gives a more comprehensible explanation to what he does, which includes the killing part. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 13:11, 7 December 2009 (EST)
Jeremy's had different limits, but could do the same thing as Linderman and Ishi. Same goes for Peter and Arthur. They could both have multiple powers, but Arthur could not take them at a distance, like Peter. --mc_hammark 13:12, 7 December 2009 (EST)
- Rachel and Hiro can both teleport, but they have different abilities. Hiro can manipulate time as well. Same applies in this case. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 13:27, 7 December 2009 (EST)
- Healing Touch should be invalidated as a name for consideration anyway, regardless of the status of Life and Death. From the naming conventions: " For a possible name to be considered the name of an ability, it should include at least all aspects of the ability which have been displayed; otherwise, it is considered to be the name of an aspect or effect of the ability". Does "healing touch" encompass all aspects of the ability which have been displayed? No, as it completly ignores his ability to kill with it. Hence, the name should be ruled out. Swm 13:31, 7 December 2009 (EST)
- Looking at the quote, I feel as if "dual ability" was the description, not "life and death". He may have simply just coined a phrase for any ability with two major functions and made reference to it.--PJDEP 15:44, 7 December 2009 (EST)
- No, I don't see how this shows that "life and death" is not explicit. The way I understand it, a name is explicit given if we use it exactly as it is given, and implicit if we derived it. For example, "invisibility" from "Look Claude, I'm invisible!" is an implicit name, but the assignment tracker calling it "ability: invisibility" is explicit. Noah clearly gave the term "life and death"; we aren't creating the name from a phrase like "Jeremy can give life and can give death" or something like that, so "life and death" is an explicit name, not an implicit description. Besides, as PJDEP pointed out, "what you'd call" could easily refer to the term "dual ability".--Referos 17:53, 7 December 2009 (EST)
Guys lets decide to split Jeremy out of the Healing Touch page first and named it Jeremy's Ability while we debated on an ability name --Darkfiremaster13 00:00, 8 December 2009 (EST)
- Thank you. I feel the same way. --Skullman1392 00:10, 8 December 2009 (EST)
- I also agree. To add to the Hiro point made above. His ability name covers the dual ability. Healing touch, however, doesn't. The source trying to be used to claim his ability as Healing Touch is OUTDATED source. I feel like we're debating if the world is flat or not. --OutbackZack 20:48, 8 December 2009 (EST)
- Well, freezing doesn't cover the water control aspect, telepathy doesn't cover painting the future etc. It is just an example of ability development. AltesUTC CH 03:57, 9 December 2009 (EST)
- We both know that freezing is an unstable example to use at the moment with the current debate. Telepathy, even though it's very stretched, does describe how Matt is able to paint the future. --OutbackZack 09:26, 9 December 2009 (EST)
The word kinesis, also used as a suffix implies all types of movement or motions whether minimal or many, i.e. Pyrokinesis, an ability which can be controlled by a simple hand gesture, opening and closing of a hand, performed by Meredith who also made an inside of a shipping container extremely hot by touching it. This of course didn't require much hand motions, only a plain palm to surface touch. There are more similar example, yet just that alone is demonstrating kinesis. Now, Vita- a prefix pertaining to vitality or life is suitable in describing upon this abilty the workings of it. To heal or hurt vital organs explains the functions in accordance to the name. There are not alot of accurate titles ascribed to Jeremy's ability. Overall, I think calling it Vitakinesis justifies the means. — Mphyire 21:15, 8 December 2009 (EST)
- Please, can we NOT discuss possible names for Jeremy's ability? We kinda just said that. We need to decide to give Jeremy's ability its own page (becasue it is clearly not the same as Linderman's or Ishi's) before we can decide on a name. There are two issues here, so lets get the first one out of the way before moving on to the second one, ok? --Skullman1392 00:21, 9 December 2009 (EST)
- Also, we only create ability names if there are no canon, near-canon, or common names for the ability. It's essentially a last result. Given that we appear to have a wide variety of names to choose from that originate in higher ranking sources we cannot create our own name, as accurate as it may be.--PJDEP 00:24, 9 December 2009 (EST)