Talk:Ability immunity
Funny, I was just thinking about making a similar article. It was Eric Doyle's teasing question to Michael in Doyle, in combination with Joe and Aron's "rule of Ted" comment, that really made me think about the idea. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:46, 18 October 2008 (EDT)
- I think this shouldn't be an user subpage, instead it should go on the bottom line of the abilities navbar just like "ability extension" "ability heredity".
Acid secretion?
I think Acid secretion should go here, but I'm not 100% sure. Thoughts? --Aburu 00:25, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
- Yup!--SacValleyDweller (talk) 00:43, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
Can't find the wording
Enhanced hearing. Mohinder tortures Sylar with a tuning fork. Also, Disintegration touch might be applicable on the page, her hands are fine when she's done using her ability.--Riddler 15:17, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
- Empathic mimicry even, since he doesn't control what he absorbs, and Intuitive aptitude since it comes with an uncontrollable hunger? I may be reading into this a bit too much or wrong, though.--Riddler 15:18, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
- No, I agree. All of them should be added. Therequiembellishere 15:33, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
- I would definitely add the first two, and could go either way on Empathic mimicry or Intuitive aptitude (though I'd lean toward not adding them). Stevehim 15:41, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
- Ability immunity is not about the negative effects of powers...it's about whether or not the power can be used on the user. It's a subtle difference. With enhanced hearing, it would be included if we knew for certain that Dale or Sylar could, I don't know, hear their own heart, or not hear their blood rushing through their veins. Just because the sounds they hear bother them doesn't mean they're immune or not immune.
With empathic mimicry, it would be included if Peter could somehow absorb his own power or not absorb his own power. Since that in and of itself is a null situation (he doesn't have another ability to absorb, or there's no way to check if he's absorbing his own power, or really it's just a silly thought process), then Peter's ability shouldn't be here. Maybe if he met another person with empathic mimicry there might be an argument, but even then it would be Peter using his power on somebody else. And since I'm talking hypothetically, I'll stop with that one.
For intuitive aptitude, that should only be included if we had evidence that Sylar could or couldn't intuitively understand how his own brain works. We don't have that, so the power shouldn't be included.
I have mixed feelings about disintegration touch. No, Felicia never seemed affected by her own power...but since we really don't know anything about her power other than the fact that her hand glows orange (and we assume it has something to do with disintegration--maybe it only disintegrates one's fingernails) it's hard to say that it affects Felicia or not. I'm not opposed to it on this page, but since we don't know anything about the power, it's probably best to leave it off.
Sorry this is such a long (winded) post, but these 3 (or 4) powers really don't belong on this page. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:10, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
- I'm not sure if this exactly pertains to the situation, but I recall that in BTE it was confirmed that when Peter met his future self he could only absorb empathic mimicry. I think this was an issue for Template:Peterexposed as well.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:00, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
- Yeah, I don't really know if that applies or not. It's such a weird case and I can't really wrap my head around it. In either case, it's probably best to not put it on the page. I suppose a note at the bottom wouldn't hurt. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:28, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
- I had initially assumed that it included the negative aspects of the power as well, but I think that was because it was fresh in my mind from discussing the Pyrokinesis-container thing. ;) If we're not including side effects though, then Ted's lack of illness, Meredith's ability to breathe without oxygen (even though I still maintain that never occurred), and possibly even Elle's problem with water (which sort of promotes a myth and doesn't really make sense anyway) could be called into question, since (like the tuning fork), they're either side effects of the power, or require an outside element for the negative effect to occur. Stevehim 00:42, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
- With regards to Meredith, couldnt the oxygen in the combustion equation (Fuel + O2 --> heat + CO2) be being absorbed by Meredith's body. in other words, her fire Does the same thing as her lungs? --SacValleyDweller (talk) 00:58, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
- Actually, those examples are all legit. The abilities and/or their side effects affecting the user is what the page is about. Ted's ability causes others to get ill...but not himself. Meredith can burn things...but not herself. Elle can shock things...including herself. The oven burns things...but not itself. For Dale's enhanced hearing, she hears things normally unheard...but we don't know if she can hear herself or not. If she said something about hearing her toenails growing, then she'd be included in the Examples of Lack of Immunity. If she she tried to listen for the cilia in her stomach swishing back and forth but was unable to hear them, then she'd be would be included in the Examples of Immunity section. Since we don't know whether or not she can hear herself, (or at least "enhanced hearing" of herself) she's not included in the page at all...Do any of my silly examples make sense? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:09, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
- I understand the distinction you're making, and can see how we wouldn't consider the pain from hearing a side effect of the power in that she can't project the pain onto others. Just to Devil's Advocate for a moment, how are we defining side effect? If suffocation due to lack of oxygen (which requires a specific environment) is a side effect, would we also consider the shrapnel from blowing up a tank of gas one too? The side effect of the former is 'burning oxygen,' and the result (or side effect of the side effect) from that is beings who need oxygen to breathe cannot do so. The side effect of the latter is combusting gasoline, and the result would be flying shrapnel, which would cause bystanders (including Meredith) to be injured. Not that I think that really should be included, and I know I'm stretching things here...I'm also just further picking my bone with the oxygen depletion scene a little, as I've watched it 10 times and really don't think it ever occurred (though I do like SacValleyDweller's theory on where the O2 would go and why Meredith could be immune). ;) Stevehim 01:52, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
- Well I won't get into the oxygen issue here, especially since that's one of those borderline cases. But I will say that pyrokinesis does belong on this page because Meredith can't burn herself. I don't distinguish between side effect and, I don't know, main (?) effect--the power is the power, and that includes all side effects or secondary causes of the ability. That goes for this page, too. Ted's ability causes radiation, but not in him. It also causes things to burn (which I guess is a secondary effect of the radiation), but not himself. It also can cause cancer (which is definitely a side effect), but not in him. With enhanced hearing, the ability is not to cause pain, it's about hearing things that others can't hear. If Sylar could hear himself (in a way that others couldn't) then he'd be included on this page. Or even if we knew he couldn't hear himself, he would be included in a different section. Since we don't know, he shouldn't be included. I don't want to sound like I'm beating a dead horse, so I'll stop now. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:10, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
- Agreed. By the way, are we sure that Linderman can't use his ability on himself? Linda's comment suggested that she would be able to heal herself. --Referos 15:21, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
- Well I won't get into the oxygen issue here, especially since that's one of those borderline cases. But I will say that pyrokinesis does belong on this page because Meredith can't burn herself. I don't distinguish between side effect and, I don't know, main (?) effect--the power is the power, and that includes all side effects or secondary causes of the ability. That goes for this page, too. Ted's ability causes radiation, but not in him. It also causes things to burn (which I guess is a secondary effect of the radiation), but not himself. It also can cause cancer (which is definitely a side effect), but not in him. With enhanced hearing, the ability is not to cause pain, it's about hearing things that others can't hear. If Sylar could hear himself (in a way that others couldn't) then he'd be included on this page. Or even if we knew he couldn't hear himself, he would be included in a different section. Since we don't know, he shouldn't be included. I don't want to sound like I'm beating a dead horse, so I'll stop now. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:10, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
- I understand the distinction you're making, and can see how we wouldn't consider the pain from hearing a side effect of the power in that she can't project the pain onto others. Just to Devil's Advocate for a moment, how are we defining side effect? If suffocation due to lack of oxygen (which requires a specific environment) is a side effect, would we also consider the shrapnel from blowing up a tank of gas one too? The side effect of the former is 'burning oxygen,' and the result (or side effect of the side effect) from that is beings who need oxygen to breathe cannot do so. The side effect of the latter is combusting gasoline, and the result would be flying shrapnel, which would cause bystanders (including Meredith) to be injured. Not that I think that really should be included, and I know I'm stretching things here...I'm also just further picking my bone with the oxygen depletion scene a little, as I've watched it 10 times and really don't think it ever occurred (though I do like SacValleyDweller's theory on where the O2 would go and why Meredith could be immune). ;) Stevehim 01:52, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
- I'm not sure if this exactly pertains to the situation, but I recall that in BTE it was confirmed that when Peter met his future self he could only absorb empathic mimicry. I think this was an issue for Template:Peterexposed as well.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:00, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
- Ability immunity is not about the negative effects of powers...it's about whether or not the power can be used on the user. It's a subtle difference. With enhanced hearing, it would be included if we knew for certain that Dale or Sylar could, I don't know, hear their own heart, or not hear their blood rushing through their veins. Just because the sounds they hear bother them doesn't mean they're immune or not immune.
Induced radioactivity
I assume Ryan's remarks in the changelog regarding clonazepam have something to do with speculation? Would it be okay to rephrase the first sentence of the second paragraph and say "Peter and Sylar have also absorbed this ability, and used this ability. Unlike Ted, they have used it to create nuclear proportions, but nonetheless have never had any lasting effects from it." I think it's important and non-speculative to distinguish that only Peter and Sylar have gone nuclear, and that they both had RCR.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:23, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
- My edit summary should have read "as much as I'd like to link to clonazepam"...because the paragraph talked about Claire injecting Ted with a tranquilizer. I deleted that sentence because there have been other times Ted exploded but wasn't given a tranquilizer. The tranquilizer was clonazepam....Ted has also "gone nuclear"--that's the definition of his power. But if you're referring to large atom bomb-size explosions, yeah, there's a bit of a difference. I think your sentence above is fine for the second paragraph. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:40, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
- Ah, thanks for the clarification. I was indeed referring to atom bomb-size explosions, and have revised the above phrasing and added it to the page. I didn't think we needed to use the word "large" before "atom bomb-size explosions" cause that seems to me to be rather implied by the terminology. Feel free to revise if it is still unclear.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
Precognitive Dreams
Would the fact that Angela was harmed by Arthur in her dream be worth mentioning that she's vulnerable to neural affecting abilities from the future? Dracomaster4 02:56, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
- That might be too speculative as of now... Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 07:37, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
Power absorption
Can we add that as lack of immunity? Peter was certainly exposed to the ability before Arthur used it in him, it's the opposite of what happened with invisibility, Peter turned invisible and was able to see Claude the moment he mimicked his ability. Power absorption does seem to require active concentration, but if Peter already "had it" in his system and was able to have his ability removed, does this mean that power shows lack of immunity? Intuitive Empath 11:57, 1 November 2008 (EDT)