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Talk:Heroism

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OK, I finally felt someone had to write the article. It is one of the most wanted on the site. Do we want to link back to every single act of heroism on the show, or is that just too much info? I feel it would serve little purpose, possibly with the exception of acts of heroism so grand they have an article completely of their own. Cuardin 12:44, 14 January 2007 (EST)

Yes, we will want to link back to episodic and graphic novel recurrences of heroism. See Family, Moral ambiguity, Sacrifice, and Secrets and deception for other examples. If an article is still so grand that it would warrant it's own article, it would probably be an event (like train wreck). - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:01, 14 January 2007 (EST)
Ok, I added all the occurences I could find. In order to keep the list reasonably long, I decided to only include events where the person performing the act actually took a risk for someone else. Claire running Brody into the wall wasn't an act of Heroism. She knew, with absolute certainity, that she would make it out of there alive and unharmed. Punching Jackie could have lead to her being suspended from school though, and thus it qualifies, even if it is kinda cheesy compared to the epicness of the saga as a whole. -- Cuardin 15:04, 14 January 2007 (EST)
I think you did a great job finding some acts of heroism. I disagree that Claire punching Jackie (and Matt sucker-punching Tom) is heroism - I think that's moral ambiguity. If you need help looking for more examples of heroism, check out this page - it shows all the places that already have a "heroism" link (there's quite a few - the page is pretty well-linked already). - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:54, 14 January 2007 (EST)
I used that page as a starter, but very few of those pages talk about acts that were heroic, and many tank about things like Janice calling Matt her "hero". If you go strictly by my definition abouve with the "personal risk", then this is it. I didn't run through all the minor characters, but so far there hasn't been that much "minor role" heroics. Not like startrek where every single minor role died in the line of duty within one episode. - Cuardin 16:19, 14 January 2007 (EST)
I'm not sure every act of heroism needs to cause personal risk - perhaps we should broaden the definition. As for Janice calling Matt her hero, I don't know if we need to see every act of heroism to know why it is mentioned. But if you want to leave that one out, I guess that'd be fine. Other heroic acts you might want to remember (in absolutely no order other than the order in which they come to my mind):
  • Hiro wanting to stop the explosion
  • Claire rescuing the train wreck victim
  • Nathan flying to save his falling brother
  • Claire pulling Brody out of the crashed car
  • Matt shooting (well, trying to shoot) Sylar to save Audrey
  • Matt saving Molly - twice
  • Mohinder pleading with the FBI to check out his father's list
  • Nathan flying to save Sheila
  • Isaac running after the bus accident victim (maybe?)
  • Mohinder vowing to "slay the monster"
  • Micah imploring his dad to go back and save Niki
  • Eden defending Isaac's right not to use heroin, and then helping him escape (may be moral ambiguity?)
  • Eden heroically sacrificing her life to keep Sylar from getting her power (even Bennet calls her a hero)
This is just a stream-of-consciousness list - use it if you want, or take some out if you want, doesn't really matter to me. :)

One other thing - for standardization purposes, try to follow the same format as the other recurring themes. In other words, maybe we should organize the list by episode rather than by character. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:40, 14 January 2007 (EST)

Indents are getting a bit cumbersome, so I am doing a wrap-around. The ones below are worthy of mention, as for the rest, the characters did not percieve any risk whatoever in doing it. Perhaps a category of "good deeds" would be appropriate if we want to honor these acts.

  • Matt shooting (well, trying to shoot) Sylar to save Audrey
Definate candidate. I am gonna check the sequence out and judge. I think Audrey might be the real hero of that piece, though.
  • Nathan flying to save Sheila
The fire was definately a risk here. Clear case.
  • Micah imploring his dad to go back and save Niki
Does DL ever turn back, or does Jessica catch up? If they turn back, it is a gold star on DL, Micah had nothing to lose pleading.
  • Eden defending Isaac's right not to use heroin, and then helping him escape (may be moral ambiguity?)
Well, I call it heroism, but it is awfully close to the two punches.....
  • Eden heroically sacrificing her life to keep Sylar from getting her power (even Bennet calls her a hero)
Clear case. Eden deservs a statue.

-- Cuardin 15:04, 15 January 2007 (EST)

Just a quick comment about Matt and Audrey shooting at Sylar. I would refrain from trying to label one or the other as "The Hero" of the situation. Undoubtedly, they both were heroic. Ultimately, this will be taken care of when we reorganize the list by episode (to be standardized) and not by character .... Good thoughts about the others. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:28, 15 January 2007 (EST)
I see you've already reorganized the list. Nice work. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:30, 15 January 2007 (EST)
Allready done. Check it out and give any feedback. Cuardin 16:30, 15 January 2007 (EST)
Well, Ryan, I still think your definition of a hero is so watered out you can take it intraveneously. Some of those examples you put in are, all things taken into account, about as heroic as if I were to help an old lady across the road. Admirable deeds, I admit, but not even close to being called "heroic". -- Cuardin 05:23, 17 January 2007 (EST)
That's fine - if you want to take them out, go ahead. I'm not tied to the examples I added. :) - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:38, 17 January 2007 (EST)
How about we make a list called "good deeds"? Because these things definitely should not be swept under a rug. -- Cuardin 10:29, 17 January 2007 (EST)
That's cool too. I don't suggest changing the name of the article - but if there's something you don't feel is particularly heroic, maybe you could make a new section called "Other Good Deeds" and include them there (using parenthetical cites).- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 10:45, 17 January 2007 (EST)

"Heroes" The Show as analysis of The Concept "Heroes"

This got too big. I'm a longwinded old blowhard. I moved the original over here to make this page less gassy. Shortform. Are any of these people really heroes? ...is what I'm trying to ask. -- ZachsMind 13:34, 11 February 2007 (EST)

Blue links

I'm not quite sure why so many of the links were removed. There's nothing wrong with links, especially when there's only one per section. Even if the sections are short, they're fine to have. Besides, there weren't even that many links on this page (or some of the other themes pages that were deblued). — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:07, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

  • George & Martha's trained alsations.--Hardvice (talk) 23:46, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

What's the difference between....

... heroic recurrences and noteworthy deeds? I say this because the article defines a heroic action as something which puts yourself at personal risk - and yet, Claire going into the burning wreck is in noteworthy deeds... surely, this is a heroic act? Basically, my point is, where is the distinction? --  Lost Soul   talk  contribs  15:52, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

Villainy

Given the next volumes assumed focus on "Villains," should we have a counterpart Villainy page? Something focusing on the evil acts done by people (Sylar, Adam, arguably Linderman) on the far side of the spectrum from heroism and moral ambiguity. I would be unable to write an appropriately complete page on the subject, but it may be something we need to think about before then.--Tim Thomason 20:14, 12 December 2007 (EST)

  • Sounds like a good idea...but don't we already have a page for treachery? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:34, 12 December 2007 (EST)
    • Treachery's different, imo; it refers to loyalty and betrayal, not necessarily "evil". I wouldn't be averse to a Crimes page, or something similar.--  Lost Soul   talk  contribs  08:08, 13 December 2007 (EST)
      • I agree with Lost Soul. I think a villainy page would be nice. --Ice Vision (talk)
        • Just wanted to up this discussion so that we can figure what to do about that, if we don't do anything; then we should remove the red link from the intial post ;) -- Frenchflo.gif (talk) 14:59, 23 December 2007 (EST)