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Talk:Peter Petrelli (explosion future)

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Phasing

At what point in Five Years Gone did Peter use Phasing? Because I don't remember it. Future Sylar used it, but not Peter. --Ted C 16:41, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

  • Peter did Phase prior to the battle with Nathan/Sylar. Last time I checked, neither the transcript page, nor the NBC Streaming page for 5YG was available yet, when it is, I'll reply back with the exact scene. I am trying to remember that Peter phased twice....once with Niki in LV, and again later with FH in NY. I also know that in week-before-lasts interview with Milo, he mentions having the power to phase in an upcoming episode that he was filming then. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 05/1/2007 17:48 (EST)
    • I don't remember either of these occurances, and I've seen the episode twice, now. Powers that Peter did use were telekinesis (at the bar, rescuing Hiro and Ando, and shutting the door on Matt), invisibility (at the bar and rescuing Hiro and Ando), space/time manipluation (freezing time and teleporting to rescue Hiro and Ando and presumably teleporting into the HS building), pyrokinesis or induced radiation (battle with Sylar). There is also a scen where he, from off-screen hurtles a guard across the room that could have been either telekinesis or enhanced strength. Not once did I see him phase through anything, except when Sylar pulled him through the door. Joser Kyind 18:00, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
      • I just went back and rewatched to see where I remembered the Phasing from. It was the scene at the 30 minute mark, just after Parkman tazered F.H., and pulled the tazer plugs out of him, and squeezed his face and said, "SOB, there's two of them....he really can control time". Peter enters. When I first watched the scene last night in real-time, I thought Peter phased through the wall....after re-watching it in slow-mo over several times, I am pretty sure though, it was just Peter coming out of inviso, while coming down the hallway...instead of phasing through the wall. The set is cluttered and not very clearly defined, that is why it seemed to be phasing on first watch. However, after reviewing it, and reviewing the earlier scene with Peter coming out of inviso at the bar with Niki, I am convinced Peter didn't phase. We'll have to wait for another epi for this to happen. I can confirm, however, that Milo did say he had the power of "phasing through walls" in one of his recent interviews....but again, we'll have to wait for epi-confirmation. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 05/1/2007 22:43 (EST)
        • I'm pretty sure Peter phased thru a wall just after entering the building where Hiro was being held (it was not inviso in that case). But having added it twice and it keep getting removed, I'm giving up changing it back again till after the episode script is released.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:39, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
          • Milo mentioned in an interview that he could "walk through walls". As for anything from the episode, I was confused on whether or not he phased or un-invisible-ized during the taser scene. Rewatching, he definitely used invisibility in that scene, not phasing. I'm not sure about entering the building where Hiro was being held, tough to say. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:49, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
            • Listen to the sound effect. It's the theme sounds for invisibility. Phasing has a very low noise, whereas invisibility has a higher pitched noise. It's the higher, not the lower.--Bob 00:50, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
              • It is definitely Peter coming out of his invisibility when he comes to rescue Future Hiro, not phasing. If you pay close enough attention, you'll see that his entire body fades into opaqueness, rather than parts of his body appearing one after the other fully opaque, as with phasing. Also, there is none of the characteristic "rippling" of solid matter that occurs during phasing in this scene.--Joser Kyind 01:15, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
                • We see him phasing on the preview... I'm gonna watch the ep again. --Densus 05:46, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
                  • I just checked the preview, and the shot you're talking about is of the scene where Sylar pulls Nathan through the wall; you can even see his arm through the door fro a few frames. The promo never really showed Peter phasing on his own. --Joser Kyind 17:00, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
                    • I'm still waiting for the script to confirm whether Peter walked through a wall after entering the building where present-Hiro was held captive, but if it was Sylar that pulled Peter through the wall in Five Years Gone, Peter should now have it as a power as he gets his powers from establishing an emotion to the power and he just saw Sylar use it. We know Peter can use Sylar's tk because of how he feels about Sylar.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:47, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
                      • Yes, Peter Petrelli was exposed to phasing by Future Sylar. Nonetheless, Future Peter never used the power himself. We do not list abilities under his Known Powers until he uses them. --Ted C 17:56, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Proof of Peter Phasing?

In the episode 20 transcript released today, it's clear that while Future Hiro is slicing and dicing the guards on the ground floor, Peter enters an elevator, throws out the guard inside and then steps out of it. If you watch the clip closely, all they show you is Peter heading toward the wall (back of the elevator shaft), the guard flying out of the elevator and then Peter stepping out. I know it doesn't say he phased in the script, but if it walks and quacks like a duck...--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:06, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

  • No replies on this? Anyways, I changed my mind. Peter could have used teleportation to get inside the elevator and then again to take Ando to the floor where present-day Hiro was being held. If the writers wanted us to know Peter phased, it would have been in the script. I'm going to add a note to that effect.--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:50, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
    • Do you realize that that script is completely non-canon...? The writers have nothing to do with the transcript that you linked. It's fan-created.--Ice Vision 23:01, 14 May 2007 (EDT)
      • I do, and that's why the script is not part of my note. After reviewing that part of the episode closely several times, I found nothing conclusive to suggest Peter did anything but teleport into the elevator. So phasing stays out unless/until other proof arises.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:39, 14 May 2007 (EDT)
        • I agree that Peter probably didn't phase. Although you shouldn't use a fan-created transcript (even though may have some accuracy) to back something up. Considering that Peter teleported Ando and Future Hiro away with ease, I think he did the same in this situation.--Ice Vision 21:51, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
          • I agree with you... I checked the fan script only to see if there were any other possible occurances of phasing. I was looking for something like a line from Ando saying, "You just walked through that wall!", but it wasn't there. Sorry if I was unclear.--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:29, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

Showdown Sylar-Ice, Peter-Fire

No doubt about it, after rewatching the last showdown scene, and comparing Peter's hands to both Meredith Gordon's (earlier in the mid-season) and Spragues a few epis ago doing his Nuclear tricks....Peter used Pyro just like Meredith does. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 05/1/2007 22:43 (EST)

  • Or induced radioactivity. Tough to say. I'd say radiation is a more sure bet. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:50, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
    • The only problem is that Peter's hands were flaming, not simply glowing. Besides, induced radioactivity kind of kills the whole Fire-Ice, Peter-Sylar thing. =P DannyP 23:55, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
      • Originally, I wasn't sure which one it was. When I read people changed it to pyro, I was going to change it, but I waited. I can say that there were definite flames. In addition to that, the light given off from Peter's hands was a different shade than the one given from Ted's hands on several occasions. Personally, I'd side with pyro, so long as we don't imply that it was from Meredith Gordon.--Bob 00:49, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
        • Plus, in the present timeline, Peter's met neither Ted nor Meredith, so neither power is any more of a stretch than the other. He'll probably meet Ted in the next couple episodes, and Meredith is Nathan's baby-momma, so I can see him meeting either one. That said, it looks more like pyro, and the guys in the commentary call it "fire", so I'd go with that.--Hardvice (talk) 15:58, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
        • I'm gonna have to go ahead and side with radioactivity...it just seems that the glow was more light orange-ish like ted's ability and not so much reddish-ornage like a flame. that's just my take on it, plus they havent done much w/ meredith so its more unlikely he'll meet her? i dunno, just my thoughts. --Pred 0212 12:42, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
          • It looked like flaming to me, and I think Peter's gonna get pyro pretty soon... check out this EW photo (yes, I know it's not a canon source).--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:45, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
            • Those are neat covers. And wow, that Nathan/Sylar photoshop is really, really unsubtle.--Hardvice (talk) 15:58, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
        • He clearly says the word "Fire" in the episode just before the flames appear in his hands. He's never had to say anything before to activate a power, but maybe he doesn't know the person he got the power from very well and saying the word helps trigger the memory. Gregorus 16:24, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
          • Take a look at this video of episode Five Years Gone At around 8:20 you can see peter and sylar starts fighting...and sylar summons his ice,then peter says "fire" and red firey hands. Divinebaboon 17:46, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
            • Does he say "Fire"? I thought he said "Liar" in reply to Sylar's comment about Nathan. (Admin 20:28, 3 May 2007 (EDT))
              • I was just coming to post the same thing. Why in the world would he say "fire"? That's just silly. Sylar says that Nathan turned on hid people, and Peter responds by saying "liar". (Now what would've been really great is if he said "Paulo lies Paralyzed.") — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:37, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
                • Right, subtitles say Liar. Gregorus 17:02, 4 May 2007 (EDT)
        • well...after watching that vid on youtube, i concede. it is most definitely fire. im anxious to find out how peter got pyrokenesis!--Pred 0212 01:44, 4 May 2007 (EDT)
          • From the looks of the EW cover, sometime soon!--Bob 17:42, 4 May 2007 (EDT)
  • I'm quite sure he said "Liar" but I'm also sure it was Fire he made as he was meant to be Sylar's equal there(Sylar had Ice, he had Fire). Raven6247 13:52, 22 September 2007 (EDT)

Trivia Comment Lacks Relevance

I'm having a little trouble understanding what the matrix trilogy has to do with this battle scene. A coat and and a angry demeanor are hardly proof that this was a matrix refrence. Joeysousa 15:43, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

  • Well, as I understand it, it's just a tiny bit more than just a coat and and angry demeanor. The promo shot below realy does seem as though the production team were making a conscious effort to liken future Peter to Neo. Joser Kyind 16:47, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

PeterNeo.jpg

  • I agree too. Actually it's the first thing I thought when I saw the Homeland Security Department scene. The security gards backing off... the SWAT Team, the coat, etc.

The first thing I thought when I saw Future Peter in action was Cleric John Preston. He may have have Matrix abilities, but the look was Equilibrium(Although people can and will say it ripped off The Matrix). Raven6247 16:56, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Peter full of powers

As seen in "Walls". Future Peter is exposed to many many special people when he and Hiro raid the prison. Future Peter mah have thousands of abilities now.--ASEO 16:24, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

  • However, it's unlikely that Peter would be able to utilize such powers, even if he did have them. Remember that Peter's absorbed abilities are called upon by him remembering his emotions for others. It's highly unlikely that he has specific emotions for the individuals he helped rescue from the prison, or at least not enough to call up the vast number of powers they possessed and he presumably absorbed.--Paronine 14:29, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
    • Yes. He has to remember someone to recall their powers. --Ted C 18:00, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
      • Yep, he has to remember a evolved human when he is not around them or unconsciously when near a evolved human, I think. --Densus 05:01, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
        • Peter has done TK without remembering its source at first, in Unexpected. OUChevelleSS 15:37, 22 May 2007 (EDT)

Super Speed?

When Peter is running toward the door where Mohindy and Future Hiro are near the end of Five Years Gone, he slams a guard into the wall at what looks like slightly faster speed than normal (there's even a small lag just before it happens to switch from normal-mo to slightly faster-mo). I wasn't going to post anything about it, but I read Walls, and it appears that Peter has met a Super-Speedy hero in the past. Just a thought, I may be wrong. --Puff0rx

  • I didn't notice that, but it's more likely time-control from Hiro than super-speed.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:58, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
    • I guess it was just a small special effect error... Peter wouldn't use Super-Speed in a nanosecond... --Densus 05:01, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
      • It could easily be space-time manipulation. From his perspective, it would be like he was making everyone else go slow. --Ted C 13:46, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

Enhanced Strength

When did Peter use Enhanced Strength in Five Years Gone? I mean, he obviously used it in Walls, when he tossed the door to Niki's cell aside, and it only makes sense that he would have the power, given his relationship with Niki, but I'm not sure we actually saw him use it in the episode. There are only two scenes I can think of that might justify this. The first is when, during the battle at Homeland Security Headquarters, a guard is seen flung across the screen, but Peter does not enter the shot until afterward, so we cannot know if he threw the man physically or telekinetically. The second instance is when he spins the guard into the wall on his way to the room where Mohinder, Ando and the two Hiros are. However, everytime I watch that scene, I can't help but feel that what he did, while very cool to watch, was not beyond the ability of any physically fit human and wasn't necessarily proof of him using enhanced strength. --Joser Kyind 13:37, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

  • I would tend to agree. I specifically looked for any shots of Peter using enhanced strength (or phasing) when I went through for screencaps (since both were listed on his page, but I didn't remember him using either), and those were the only two scenes that stood out for enhanced strength--and neither seems conclusive.--Hardvice (talk) 13:47, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
  • Why not just use Walls as the reference, then. --Ted C 13:48, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
    • I tried, but every time, people kept changing it back. --Joser Kyind 06:36, 5 May 2007 (EDT)
  • I don't think that the door-tossing was necessarily an instance of super-strength. After all, if strength was enough to break open the door, Niki would have done so long ago. As I see it, Peter uses radioactivity/pyrokinesis to melt the hinges of the door. Once that has been done, moving it out of the way should not be so difficult. Bear in mind that this is the first time that he has met Niki, and the only reason that he has to believe the she has super-strength is that the door was reinforced. He hasn't even seen her power in action. It is far from conclusive that he has already had the chance to absorb and manifest super strength. --Havoc 07:37, 5 May 2007 (EDT)
    • Obviously, strength alone was not enough to break through the door, otherwise, Niki would already have done so, but that is why Peter melted through whatever seals or hinges were holding the door to the wall before removing it. After melting through he physically lifts the thick metal door off the ground, and the caption in that frame reads "...must have been pretty strong." To me, this makes it very clear that he is mimicking Niki's stremgth to move the door. --Joser Kyind 14:31, 5 May 2007 (EDT)
      • The best bet is to say that it as both enhanced strength and induced radioactivity. Peter weakened the door with Ted's power, then ripped the door off with Niki's power.--Ice Vision 14:36, 5 May 2007 (EDT)
        • I'm not sure that is the best bet. Picking up a door, even a very heavy one, is not necessarily an example of enhanced strength (otherwise, wouldn't Niki have done that much earlier?)...When the caption reads "must have been pretty strong", it's not referring to Peter or the door but to the person inside the cell. Besides, I'm not even sure Peter had the power at that point. Yes he was close to Niki, but close enough? It's certainly a possibility, yes. But a sure bet? Not by a long shot. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:59, 5 May 2007 (EDT)
          • Niki wouldn't have done that earlier because the door was stronger and undamaged by Peter. Remember when Ted melted the doorknob his power? It was turned into liquid and just fell off. That's what I'm thinking happened to Peter. He used Ted's power on the door to weaken it. And since he was next to Niki, he mimicked her power for the first time and used it, like how he used Matt's power when he first met him. Peter said "I figured whoever they were keeping behind here... ...must have been pretty strong." Peter knows he mimics powers, and he figured that he just got a new one. It's probably not the "best" bet, for that was an exaggeration, but it's a safe bet nonetheless.--Ice Vision 18:09, 5 May 2007 (EDT)
            • Sound reasoning, but still guesswork. We simply don't know whether or not he used enhanced strength or not to lift a door. If it were an elephant in front of the cell, well then okay. No doubt he has the ability, I just don't feel comfortable saying it's a confirmed use of the power. 21:05, 5 May 2007 (EDT)
              • So are we keeping it or removing it? Right now, it's half-way there (in the character box but not the article).--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:34, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
                • Bumping this question. It's still half-way there. And on a side note, can't we say Peter used enhanced strength to hold the door closed with ease (holding out Matt's team from the holding cell) in Five Years Gone? Mohinder held it closed too, but he really had to strain himself. Mohinder's no weakling (he's able to carry Peter's body with ease).--MiamiVolts (talk) 14:12, 27 May 2007 (EDT)
                  • I'd say it's tricky because in many instances it could either be enhanced strength or telekinesis since telekinesis has been used to enhance strength as well. Unless it's been confirmed during an interview or something I'm not sure we have any confirmed examples of enhanced strength on Peter's part. (Admin 14:25, 27 May 2007 (EDT))
                  • I also just now took it out of the character box so it would match the content in the article. (Admin 14:28, 27 May 2007 (EDT))
                    • I agree. There are just no clear examples of FPeter using enhanced strength. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:52, 27 May 2007 (EDT)
                      • Thanks for clarifying. I guess it could be tk + normal strength, but for me his standing next to the door and facing away from it meant he was holding it shut with his arm alone (no tk).--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:05, 27 May 2007 (EDT)

Radioactivity or pyrokinesis

  • When Peter Petrelli rips the door off its hinges to get to Future Niki is he using a radioactive power or pyrokinesis. I myself believe it is induced radioactivity but there is no way to tell that it is and we've seen PEter use pyrokinesis in Five Years Gone. Jason Garrick 21:29, 6 May 2007 (EDT)
    • It's induced radioactivity. The reason I say this is because of "smoke" that is only produced through radiation. Pyrokinesis doesn't give this "smoke." Take a look at these two images of the "smoke." --Ice Vision 21:36, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

Lightning

Should we call it Electrical manipulation? --Densus 07:17, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

  • I'd try to keep it simpler, although "Lightning" alone may be awkward. I'm sure someone will suggest "electrokinesis", but that's not even used in comics, to my knowledge. Any other ideas? --Ted C 07:21, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
    • I guess "Electrical manipulation" is nice, since we already have 3 more manipulations (Dream, Mental and Space/Time). --Densus 07:58, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
      • I think it's acceptable, but I wish we had a better option. "Electrical manipulation" doesn't get across the idea that he generates electricity very well. Sanjog doesn't create dreams, the Haitian doesn't create thoughts, and Hiro creates neither space nor time, but they all change their respective targets in some way.--Hardvice (talk) 14:34, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

Occupation

Is there any solid evidence that Peter and/or Niki owned the club where Future Hiro went to find Peter? --Ted C 09:43, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

Regeneration

  • This edit bears more explanation. In the timeline FHiro left, he stabbed Sylar and watched him regenerate because he had stolen Claire's power, and Sylar exploded. When he travels back to the past and meets up with Peter, he prevents Claire's death but also sets in motion the chain of events which cause Peter, not Sylar, to be the cause of the explosion. Still, his trip would have worked, except that before present-day Hiro stabbed Sylar, he jumped to the future (something Future Hiro never did, and again, due to the chain of events he set in motion). It gets kind of tortured from here, but from what the writers have indicated in the CBR interviews, the dark future in Five Years Gone is a result of present-day Hiro's trip to the future before he had a chance to stab Sylar, not a result of FHiro's mission failing. In this new future, Peter, not Sylar, exploded--FHiro doesn't know that, of course, because he remembers the original past, and he doesn't know that his meeting with Peter actually set in motion the chain of events which led to Peter exploding instead of Sylar. (It's possible that in the original future, Peter and Sylar never fought, and Peter never met Ted ... after all, those events are largely contingent on his meeting with FHiro.) In any case, Claire hasn't been hiding in Midland the whole time; per FBennet, she only recently returned. And when FHiro tells FBennet that he knows Claire is alive because he caused Peter to save her, FBennet is surprised that Hiro knows she's alive, but there's no reason to believe she isn't alive because of Peter ... after all, we know this future is different from the one FHiro left, so his trip to the past did change some things.--Hardvice (talk) 15:02, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

Different Peter

Once Hiro went back to the present (at the end of Five Years Gone) the future changed, of course. Events are different, and the Future Peter that was shown in 5YG can never and will never exist. For instance, in that alternate timeline, Peter did not meet Niki at Kirby Plaza, he met her at Moab Federal Penitentiary a year later. It would be wrong to say that events that Peter experiences in The Hard Part, Landslide, and How to Stop an Exploding Man carry through to make him become the Future Peter portrayed in Five Years Gone. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:09, 4 June 2007 (EDT)

  • As far as we know, there are three timelines, and two times when the timelines change:
    1. The original timeline as described in String Theory, when Sylar killed Claire at Homecoming and was the bomb (according to FHiro). This timeline was changed on October 4th when FHiro went back in time to the subway and told Peter to save the cheerleader.
    2. The possible future shown in Five Years Gone, where Peter was the bomb (though Sylar was blamed for it), Claire is killed in her grandmother's home, and Matt is a dick. This is also the timeline in which Peter meets Niki at the Moab Federal Penitentiary. He may have also met her at Kirby, but we have no idea what happened in that timeline. This timeline was not changed when the bomb exploded, but when Hiro and Ando returned from the future, at the end of Five Years Gone and the beginning of The Hard Part.
    3. The timeline we're all very familiar with, where Claire survives Homecoming, Peter (briefly) meets Niki at Kirby, and Nathan inexplicably has enhanced hearing. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:11, 6 June 2007 (EDT)

Editing List of Peter's Powers

I was going to edit that Peter was exposed to Phasing by Future Sylar but all I get is futurepeterexposed surrounded by {{}}. I know Peter never used Phasing himself I just wanted to add that he was exposed to it. Along with Cryokinesis. Cause he was definitely exposed to both of them when confronted by Sylar. --Snow Leapord 12:57, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

In "The Second Coming", Peter exhibits the "healing" by kissing Nathan. Nathan was promptly "healed". Or did I miss something?--Boikfam 23:31, 17 December 2008 (EST)

The Scar

"In the episode Five Years Gone, Peter has a clearly visible scar across his face. It is unknown why this scar exists if Peter absorbed Claire Bennet's healing ability."

Don't scars form when the skin heals around a serious injury imperfectly? He heals fast, but that doesn't mean they're some sort of template that it restores itself to. If the wound was bad enough, wouldn't his cells just regenerate imperfectly around it? --Ace ofspade 18:32, 9 December 2007 (EST)

Pyrokinesis

why the hell do we assume that Peter got his pyrokinesis from meredith gordon when nobody knew she was alive, besides Claire? claire was swept away and kept secret by Mr Bennet so she couldn't have told Peter, and if peter has broken out a whole prison of evolved humans, and met many others, surely it being one of them would have been much more likely? it doesn't automatically have to be the only person we have been shown on the tv to have the ability, maybe it was simply chosen as a direct opposition to sylars already obtained ice powers.

  • At the time this article was written, we hadn't seen any ability displayed by multiple characters. Now, of course, we've not only seen repeated abilities several times, but pyrokinesis is one of them. You are right, Meredith's name should be removed.--Hardvice (talk) 13:16, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

New need a new page

We need a new page for the new future Peter.--Skywalkerrbf 02:51, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

  • Agreed. Would we call it Future Peter II? --Piemanmoo 02:54, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
    • I agree too! Season 3's future Peter is different that season 1's future Peter and it should be called Peter Petrelli (future) II
      • We also need a name for the new future.--Skywalkerrbf 03:02, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
  • I would name a new page "Peter Petrelli (future) (II)". -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 03:16, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
    • I was afraid someone would use the same page for the new Future Peter. "Peter Petrelli (future) (II)" looks a bit odd (or maybe its just me) but it will suffice.--Citizen 05:18, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
  • I think that using numbers is a silly idea, no-one is going to seach for future peter (II). I also think that future peter should link a disifigwhatever page.--Skywalkerrbf 08:10, 27 September 2008 (EDT)