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Talk:Puppet master/Archive 2

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Archive.jpg WARNING: Talk:Puppet master/Archive 2 is an archive of past messages. New messages should be added to Talk:Puppet master. Archive.jpg

I suggest we rename Sylar to "Douglas"

  • Isn't this a far better name? On a serious note, can we just remove new comments about renaming powers in discussions from now on? It is apparent that everytime we have a terrible sounding name for an ability, 5 people will come in, and either skip all of the previous discussion to post their "genius" new idea for a name, or they do read it all and post anyway thinking that teir new name is so good everyone will forget the conventions and go for it. It really clutters up these discussions. Is it against the rules to do this? --Action Figure 01:21, 22 December 2008 (EST)
  • Sadly, yes. :( But I think a better name for Sylar is "Sassafras". -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:33, 22 December 2008 (EST)
    • Seconded! :) --Stevehim 02:19, 22 December 2008 (EST)
      • Close, "Sassafras-kinesis"... seriously though, maybe on pages like this there should just be a gian warning at the top? I know the naming box is up there, but apparently it isnt eye-grabbing enough. The bow on the main article page that says there is a debate is big and colorful and seems to lead newbies in to do their worst, maybe the same thing would stop some? --Action Figure 12:56, 22 December 2008 (EST)
  • Now this is a debate I can really sink my teeth into. --DocM 13:11, 22 December 2008 (EST)

Motor Control Possession

It's a far better name and applies greatly to eric's ability. Paul The Tree 03:08, 24 December 2008

  • Unfortunately, it's not ever used in the world of Heroes. We follow naming conventions to name an ability. "Puppet master" was explicitly given as the name of Eric's ability in his assignment tracker profile. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 03:12, 24 December 2008 (EST)
    • Wish they'd have just had Mohinder say what the name of the ability was just like they did with Monica's ability in Season Two. Dracomaster4 18:45, 24 December 2008 (EST)
      • That would have been nice, wouldn't it! Fortunately, Doyle's assignment tracker listed the ability name pretty explicitly. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:45, 24 December 2008 (EST)
        • Why, oh why are there still discussions on "This is a better name, let's use this!" when we have explicit near-canon names? The only point of argument (and even this has been pretty much squashed) was "puppet master" versus "puppet mastery". --Ricard Desi (t,c) 21:51, 24 December 2008 (EST)
        • User:Shadowulf1 12:19, 25 December 2008 (EST) No, it's really not a better name, and not entirely accurate...Eric can also control use of powers. I think it should just be Possession; not too specific, not too broad, not too presumptuous, and not too pseudo-scientific. Motor Control Possession is too specific, and pertains only to his control of motion, while entirely leaving out his control over the use of superhuman powers... it's Possession.

Just noticed...

The citation for the name empathic mimicry is: "Empathic Mimcry"[sic] is explicitly named in Peter's tip in the Assignment Tracker Map. It's a typo. It's also explicitly listed. Assignment Tracker Map's verified tips are basically on the same level as the Assignment Tracker profiles themselves. So why is the name for Peter's ability not empathic mimcry? The point I'm trying to make here is that if we're correcting something explicitly named like the spelling of Peter's ability name because it's incorrect, why can't we rename this ability to puppet mastery? Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 23:43, 27 December 2008 (EST)

  • That's actually a really good point. Typos happen. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 05:14, 28 December 2008 (EST)
    • The reason is because the Heroes crew that upkeeps certain "near canon" sources take names from this site that are originally created. We coined the terms "Empathic Mimicry" and "Intuitive Aptitude". IA was used explicitly on Sylar's assignment tracker, whereas Peter was not explicitly created. The AT map isn't as great a quality of the assignment trackers, but there is a tip that is listed. According to our naming convention, Company listings for abilities take precedence over descriptions. Furthermore, there are certain sources that are valued over others, which includes the assignment trackers over the assignment map tips. So, the name for EM should remain. However, I don't see how this discussion applies to puppet master, so if it is to continue, it needs to be on the empathic mimicry page.--Bob (talk) 05:27, 28 December 2008 (EST)
      • I thought its application was pretty apparent. Both "empathic mimcry" and "puppet master" were explicitly listed in near-canon sources, yet we're refusing to correct the mistake in "puppet master" whilst correcting the one in "empathic mimcry." Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 11:11, 28 December 2008 (EST)
        • In the shortest terms: They made a typo spelling out "Empathic mim_cry", it's possible they did the same with "Puppet master_". --Ricard Desi (t,c) 11:31, 28 December 2008 (EST)
          • User:Shadowulf1 15:55, 31 December 2008 (EST) True. At least it would make more sense this way, if no better name could be thought of than puppet master or puppet mastery...

Bump for justice. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 20:03, 20 January 2009 (EST)

  • I think the skipping of the y is plausible, but it's more likely that they meant to put master. I prefer mastery though. -- Tristan0709 talk 21:28, 20 January 2009 (EST)

Physical Manipulation?

It's said as Eric's ability in the Heroes application for MySpace...

  • Unfortunately, we are bound to using the name given by Eric's assignment tracker, which gives his ability name as 'Puppet master'. Bummer, I know.--Crazylicious 22:59, 10 January 2009 (EST)
    • I think this sounds better too. Serojay 06:45, 18 February 2009 (EST)

Episode Dual; "Control"

  • I just noticed, didn't Sylar said to Eric,

"You really think, you can control me?"

    • Is this a canon source now?:
  1. It was stated in the show.
  2. Similarly to Peter saying he can "fly", which then later converted to "flight".
  3. imo, it sounds much better anyway XD

--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 19:28, 4 January 2009 (EST)

  • I'm not sure what you're proposing here. "Control me," would be more of a description of what was happening than an ability name. It's similar to how people say Parkman can "read minds," or how Molly can "find people." It's already included in the description of the ability, so this just backs that up. I'm sorry if I've completely misinterpreted what you were proposing, as I feel I have. --Stevehim 19:45, 4 January 2009 (EST)
  • I'd rather not have "Control" because we already have a graphic novel of the same name. -- Tristan0709 talk 21:32, 20 January 2009 (EST)

Has Sylar acquired it?

I was just rewatching Trust and Blood (specifically the Sylar and the Campbells scenes) and realized that at one point, Sylar literally makes Mary "shut up" by closing his fingers together, extremely similar to Eric's signature movements. I also think it was a different noise heard than the standard "telekinesis whoosh." While yeah, the argument stands that it's probably just telekinesis, it is possible that Sylar has indeed acquired Puppet master(y) (perhaps off-screen, maybe not even from Doyle). -Whizzles 16:04, 11 February 2009 (EST)

  • Good observation. Check out the related discussion at Talk:Sylar#...Puppet master?. Ultimately, I think we don't have enough information to say which ability he was using. I'm tending to think it was Eric Doyle's ability, especially since the people did what Sylar wanted them to yet were squirming the whole time--very much like Doyle's victims. But no way would I state that unequivocally in an article since we just don't know enough. Sounds like a great question for CBR... -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:57, 11 February 2009 (EST)
    • If you're sending to CBR, deadline is tomorrow to appear among next week's questions; just a heads-up.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:02, 11 February 2009 (EST)
      • I sent in a couple questions yesterday. We'll see if anything gets answered. ::crosses fingers:: -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:03, 12 February 2009 (EST)
    • Just a quick note about Mary and Luke being restrained; that was definitely telekinesis, I think. Before he restrained them, Sylar opened his hand wide open and thrust his fingers forward at both Luke and Mary with the telekinesis sound effect. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 18:04, 11 February 2009 (EST)
      • To make them sit it was definitely telekinesis, I still think that shuting Mary up was telekinesis, he's done more than that to Audrey before. I know writers aren't supposed to give away everything that happens at once so they can build suspense up, but I if they know how much we discuss this things, I doubt some of them don't find it amusing. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:08, 11 February 2009 (EST)
  • Thanks for the link, RGS. Coulda sworn I'd looked at Sylar's talk page for a similar discussion before posting here. :P -Whizzles 18:04, 12 February 2009 (EST)
    • I'm pretty sure he used puppet master. He was using telekinesis to hold them down, but that was definitely puppet master to shut her up. It made the sound cue. But he didn't kill doyle, and as far as we know he hasn't done anything empathic with him. Maybe it's just a small oversite on the writers part.


Since there are more than eight examples, would it be a good idea to make an examples page? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:01, 18 February 2009 (EST)

  • Yeah since he's back there'll probably be more too, I'll go ahead and make the examples page now. --Radicell 06:29, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Let us make the name change

IceGhost78 well more people outnumber it so shouldn't we change the name, because puppet master is a person and its still canon because it has the name in it if you add a y

IceGhost78 yeah it is i just said it still has the same name just with a y
That's not the same --Betamax 21:25, 14 March 2009 (EDT)
Betamax, its not allowed to swear in the site. Please remain civil. --NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 21:33, 14 March 2009 (EDT)

...Huh? (To NiveKJ13)--ERROR 21:40, 29 May 2009 (EDT)

Make A List

Here We Go: Make a list of all possible names, add your own if you want, then if you want to vote for it, add your name beside it. Mine First

Human Puppetry --Mc hammark 07:46, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

Talk 10:51, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

    • Additionally, when a name for an ability is explicitly given, there is nothing to vote on--nor do we need to find consensus. The main issue being discussed (months ago) on this page is whether or not there was a grammatical error on Doyle's assignment tracker file. Ultimately, there is no consensus whether a mistake was made or not. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:56, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Not that it matters, but Wikipedia calls it "Puppet mastery". BoomerDay 15:18, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

David H Lawrence Thoughts

I have recently emailed an have been emailed back by David H Lawrence, the actor who portrays Eric Doyle. He say's it's called "intricate physical manipulation of people and objects". I just want to know if this can be used in any way to name the power correctly. If a copy of the email is needed on here then cansomeone tell me how to put it on. That or I could forward it to anyone who wishes to see it.--Mc hammark 12:11, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

  • That's a description not a name. And I don't think the actor overrides an assignment tracker.
    • I never said he did. I just wanted to know if it would help in any way. Obviously not. If you don't think it's a name then just use physical manipulation, but I think the mention of objects is worth a mention as it is not included so far. And please remember to sign your name. --Mc hammark 16:37, 30 April 2009 (EDT)