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{{power names|2|eos=In ''[[Graphic Novel:From the Files of Primatech, Part 1|From the Files of Primatech, Part 1]]'', Angela's ability is explictly listed as '''precognitive dreaming'''}}
{{power names|5|eos=}}
{| border=2" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="4" class="wikitable"
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! Archives
! Archived Topics
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| align=center | [[Talk:Precognitive dreaming/Archive 1|Oct 2008-Sept 2009]] || <small> {{ArchiveLinks|Talk:Precognitive dreaming/Archive 1}}</small>
|-
|}
== Change this and precog painting to same ==


Now, this page should be merged with Precognitive Painting as they are the same thing. It's the same as the argument about Eli's ability on [[Talk:Cloning]]. They are the same ability but produced in different ways. --[[User:Mc hammark|mc_hammark]] 10:41, 8 December 2009 (EST)
==Distinction==
*I'm unsure. Chandra's journal do state that a girl with a form of presentiment had "precognition", essentially suggesting that any ability to predict the future is called "precognition". Still, even if we don't merge, this ability should probably be called "premonition" or "premonitory dreaming", based on Kring's comment.--[[User:Referos|Referos]] 11:03, 12 January 2010 (EST)
Knowing what we now know about Angela's power, is it really a separate power from Precognition? It does the same thing, albeit with a bit less precision and in a different medium, but its still basically the power to predict the future. --[[User:Ted C|Ted C]] 20:59, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
**Gotta be honest, both abilities result in the user being in a less-than-conscious state, visualizing an image of the future. In the dreaming variant, the user sees it vividly, but it is open to interpretation. Whereas the painting variant has the user seeing an image that they then draw. They are very similar. --[[User:Ricard Desi|Ricard Desi]] ([[User talk:Ricard Desi|t]],[[Special:Contributions/Ricard Desi|c]]) 15:07, 12 January 2010 (EST)
* Still agree. My argument is down below. --[[User:Riddler|Riddler]] 23:07, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
***Nah, not really agree with this one, precog dreaming is almost always very rare, and a precog painting is very clear.--{{User:Yoshi n1/sig1}} 15:15, 12 January 2010 (EST)
** Isaac's precognition is through painting. This power manifests through dreams. --{{User:Heroe/sig}} 23:29, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
****Agreed. The painters see the future very clear for the most part whereas the dreamers have a great deal of metaphor to them. Very close, but very different. Such as [[Healing]] and [[Healing touch]]. --[[User:OutbackZack|OutbackZack]] 15:58, 12 January 2010 (EST)
*** They're still both Precognition, the only difference is how they see it. Like I said below, we don't have a separate article for Teleportation, and Manuel Garcia's version is different than Hiro's.
*I wouldn't be totally opposed if they were merged, but it's important to remember that precog dreaming appears to be more then simply dreaming the future. Angela visited Sylar in a dream if I'm not mistaken, and Peter was able to have a conversation with Charles Deveaux.--[[User:PJDEP|PJDEP]] - [[User Talk:PJDEP|Need further explanation?]] 16:55, 12 January 2010 (EST)
****It's also entirely possible that Angela's ability lets her see into the past. --{{User:Heroe/sig}} 23:39, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
** Ah yes, true. Still, I do think this should be renamed to "premonitory dreaming". Thoughts?--[[User:Referos|Referos]] 19:28, 12 January 2010 (EST)
***** Same applies to Isaac. Though, in a technical sense, it was the future that he painted because it was Hiro's future, he did indeed paint the past. --[[User:Riddler|Riddler]] 23:40, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
****** I think they're differents powers, because Angela can move and interact with the dreams. Angela saw her self in the dream of the Level 5, and Peter talk with Charles in how to stop a exploding man.


==Enhanced Dreaming==
== Peter's dreams ==


I've read in the wikipedia page for this ability that it's called as "Enchanced Dreaming" that allows:precognition, postcognition, astral projection. I know this site is not wikipedia, so it's not right to base naming conventions upon another site but won't anyone consider this name? Angela clearly does more than just having precognitive dreams(or premonitive ones, for that matter). I think the ability's name has to have something to do with "dreams" or anything to that effect. I know this ability isn't up for a name change but I'm just trying to put up a discussion...--[[User:Realistic|Realistic]]
We should probably move the bulk of [[Peter's dreams]] to this page; in fact, we might even think about just making [[Peter's dreams]] into a redirect to this page. All we would really lose it the chronological history, which would be replaced by a pictorial history of examples with cites. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 02:15, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
*I'm pretty sure Angela has always referred to her ability as dreaming the ''future'', nothing about the past or astral projection.--[[User:PJDEP|PJDEP]] - [[User Talk:PJDEP|Need further explanation?]] 12:06, 24 January 2010 (EST)
* I second the redirect idea, but ask that the page not be deleted before it becomes a redirect so that the history can be preserved.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 02:19, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
*Perhaps these are new developments of her ability? --[[User:Realistic|Realistic]]
** If it's a redirect, it won't be deleted. The history remains intact. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 02:28, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
**They are, I believe that she can see the past and affect others as well, but unless someone says (or has said) that she can enter the dreams of others or dreams the past, the name stays.--[[User:PJDEP|PJDEP]] - [[User Talk:PJDEP|Need further explanation?]] 18:03, 24 January 2010 (EST)
== Charles Deveaux HTSAEM dream sequence ==
***Okay. --[[User:Realistic|Realistic]]
Should it be cited here? Since it was "past-tense" dreaming and not "future-tense" dreaming, should it effect the name of the power? <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 09/23/2008 07:52 (EST)</small>
**** Angela entered Sylar's mind in [[Eris Quod Sum]], and Peter dreamt of Angela and Charles Deveaux discussing the explosion. {{User:Altes/Signature}} 09:47, 25 January 2010 (EST)


==Name==
== Examples? ==
I'm hoping for "Premonition" for a few reasons. One, if this is precognitive dreaming then Issac's power should be called precognitive painting. Two, the two powers are different in that Issac and Usutu can create images with exact details, while Angela and Peter see things in symbolic ways. --[[User:Piemanmoo|Piemanmoo]] 11:19, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
* I'm torn. I like "premonition" because it hints that the vision isn't exact. I don't like it for two reasons though--anybody can have a premonition. I've always understood "premonition" to mean a feeling about something that is going to happen. But ultimately, it doesn't address the dreaming aspect (even Angela mentioned dreams). -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 11:29, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
** But shouldn't we also avoid a name that infers 'future-only', because of the past-tense dream sequence Peter had with Charles in HTSAEM? <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 09/23/2008 12:20 (EST)</small>
**Well we don't know if the interaction with Charles was due to Angela's ability or something else, possibly another ability held by charles. Who knows? --[[User:Piemanmoo|Piemanmoo]] 13:41, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
***I'm going to have to agree with pieman. We could just always change it to Spontaneous Premonitions. [[User:Jason Garrick|Jason Garrick]] 15:47, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
**** But this sounds like choosing to side with speculation. Charles doesn't have a confirmed power. Anything named or not named based on him having a power is speculative. At this point until prooven otherwise, we can only say that Peter and Angela have 'dream-cog' powers, therefore the past-visit to Charles was a result of Angela/or Peter 'dream-cog' not Charles. My point is because of that 'visit'; and because Charles doesn't have a confirmed power; we can't attibute anything to him; which leaves us with an example of Angela/Peter having a 'past 'dream-cog'; not a future one. "Precognitive" dreaming presumes dreaming of future events. If we dropped the 'pre'; and just called it 'Cognitive Dreaming' then we would remove the speculation that it can only be future-tense dreaming. <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 09/23/2008 15:56 (EST)
***** I personally think this should go under Precognition, because that's exactly what it is. Favoring one "precognition" over another would be ridiculous, so if this is to have it's own article, the other one should be "Precognitive Painting", as someone said before. Precognition is seeing future events; Angela as well as Isaac, Peter, and Sylar, saw future events. How they show it is just their personal detail. Similar to this is how we don't have a separate article for Teleportation, though Manuel Garcia's teleportation is different than Hiro's. Just my two cents though.--[[User:Riddler|Riddler]] 20:32, 23 September 2008 (EDT)</small>
****** I'm fine with the current name as it shows what we know about the ability thus far. We don't know whether or not Charles had the same ability so we have to table that discussion for now. That said, I would rather just drop the pre- as HDS suggested than use premonition.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 20:37, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
****I'm afraid there's one tiny flaw in that logic, HDS. Just because we dont know for 100% certain that charles has an ability, that doesn't mean that we can be safely sure that the dream was caused by angela's power. It could have been time travel or something entirely else for all we know. We shouldn't even look at the HTSAEM scene along with the rest of peter's dreams because we dont known exactly what caused it. Otherwise we're making a false assumption, namely that if charles didnt cause it, then the only possibility was that angela had to have. We dont know if it was Charles or Angela or Sanjog or Mr. Muggles that caused that dream sequence. So instead of picking the one that seems the most likely, we should just leave it apart from the other dreams. [[Image:Emot-iiam.gif]]--[[User:Piemanmoo|Piemanmoo]] 03:04, 24 September 2008 (EDT)


Is there a reason why we don't have ''any'' examples?--{{User:Catalyst/sig}} 17:53, 9 February 2010 (EST)
⚫
==User:Heroe/Precognitive dreaming ==
*You mean like a gallery? I don't know either. We should make one, there have been visual representations of it. --[[User:Mc hammark|mc_hammark]] 18:03, 9 February 2010 (EST)


== Fallout ==
That is all. --{{User:Heroe/sig}} 22:31, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
I know its kind of late but the dream sequence at the end of fallout was kind of accurate, like angela said "dreams are open to interpretation": Simone gets taken away by issac, and nathan saving peter and new york. [[User:Daevon|daevon]] 22:16, 15 February 2010 (EST)
* Simone being present at all is quite inaccurate. So is Matt directing traffic, Claude being there, and Mohinder driving a cab. Oh, and New York being destroyed. :) But in all honesty, I really like that the dreams we see aren't slavishly predicting what will happen. I really like that there's a bit of interpretation needed--it certainly makes for better twists. :) -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 22:49, 15 February 2010 (EST)
** Yeah me too, but don't you think simone being dragged away by issac is a little nod to her being killed by him? [[User:Daevon|daevon]] 22:54, 15 February 2010 (EST)
*** No. Honestly, I don't think they knew they were going to kill her off when ''Fallout'' was written. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 00:03, 16 February 2010 (EST)
****I think they would have. I mean...why write her into the season, half way through, and not plan to kill her off? considering she was only in a handful after that? And I interpreted the dream like this :D
*[[Isaac]] dragging [[Simone]] away: Isaac killing Simone.
*[[Niki]], [[D.L.]] and [[Micah]]: They were at Kirby Plaza.
*[[Mohinder]], pleased to see [[Peter]], then frightened: He tried to help Peter earlier on, and then was worried about what he could do.
*[[Matt]] directing the Sanders/Hawkins to safety: He's a cop.
*[[Claire]], running to Peter and shaking her head: Claire running to Peter and being forced to shoot him, however, she shook her head coz she wasn't able to.
*[[Nathan]] "dying" with Peter, (we also saw Nathan get burned): Nathan [[flies]] Peter away and is badly burned by his [[Induced radioactivity|radiation]], and is then presumed dead by the remaining heroes at [[Kirby Plaza]].
*[[Claude]], laughing at Peter's inability to control [[Empathic mimicry|his power]]: Claude always taunted Peter in order for him to maintain control.
--[[User:&quot;The Listener&quot;|&quot;The Listener&quot;]] 06:11, 23 February 2010 (EST)

⚫
== Prescience vs. Precognitive Dreaming ==

Angela seems to name her ability "prescience", whereas the file calls it "precognitive dreaming". Thoughts? --'''[[User:Ricard Desi|<font color=#609000>Ricard</font>]]''' '''[[User talk:Ricard Desi|<font color=#609000>Desi</font>]]''' 23:27, 10 March 2010 (EST)
*Precognitive dreaming seemed more explicit, IMO. Claire might say something like "most people think the power to heal...", but RCR would still be more appropriate.--{{User:PJDEP/signature1}} 23:35, 10 March 2010 (EST)
**''Precognitive dreaming'' is definitely a better name than ''prescience'' !--[[User:Imax99|Imax99]] 02:35, 11 March 2010 (EST)

Latest revision as of 07:35, 11 March 2010

Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources Episodes
Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible
Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine precognitive dreaming's name.
Source/Explanation
In From the Files of Primatech, Part 1, Angela's ability is explictly listed as precognitive dreaming.
Archives Archived Topics
Oct 2008-Sept 2009 [[Talk:Precognitive dreaming/Archive 1#

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Change this and precog painting to same

Now, this page should be merged with Precognitive Painting as they are the same thing. It's the same as the argument about Eli's ability on Talk:Cloning. They are the same ability but produced in different ways. --mc_hammark 10:41, 8 December 2009 (EST)

  • I'm unsure. Chandra's journal do state that a girl with a form of presentiment had "precognition", essentially suggesting that any ability to predict the future is called "precognition". Still, even if we don't merge, this ability should probably be called "premonition" or "premonitory dreaming", based on Kring's comment.--Referos 11:03, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    • Gotta be honest, both abilities result in the user being in a less-than-conscious state, visualizing an image of the future. In the dreaming variant, the user sees it vividly, but it is open to interpretation. Whereas the painting variant has the user seeing an image that they then draw. They are very similar. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 15:07, 12 January 2010 (EST)
      • Nah, not really agree with this one, precog dreaming is almost always very rare, and a precog painting is very clear.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 15:15, 12 January 2010 (EST)
        • Agreed. The painters see the future very clear for the most part whereas the dreamers have a great deal of metaphor to them. Very close, but very different. Such as Healing and Healing touch. --OutbackZack 15:58, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  • I wouldn't be totally opposed if they were merged, but it's important to remember that precog dreaming appears to be more then simply dreaming the future. Angela visited Sylar in a dream if I'm not mistaken, and Peter was able to have a conversation with Charles Deveaux.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 16:55, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    • Ah yes, true. Still, I do think this should be renamed to "premonitory dreaming". Thoughts?--Referos 19:28, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Enhanced Dreaming

I've read in the wikipedia page for this ability that it's called as "Enchanced Dreaming" that allows:precognition, postcognition, astral projection. I know this site is not wikipedia, so it's not right to base naming conventions upon another site but won't anyone consider this name? Angela clearly does more than just having precognitive dreams(or premonitive ones, for that matter). I think the ability's name has to have something to do with "dreams" or anything to that effect. I know this ability isn't up for a name change but I'm just trying to put up a discussion...--Realistic

  • I'm pretty sure Angela has always referred to her ability as dreaming the future, nothing about the past or astral projection.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 12:06, 24 January 2010 (EST)
  • Perhaps these are new developments of her ability? --Realistic
    • They are, I believe that she can see the past and affect others as well, but unless someone says (or has said) that she can enter the dreams of others or dreams the past, the name stays.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 18:03, 24 January 2010 (EST)
      • Okay. --Realistic
        • Angela entered Sylar's mind in Eris Quod Sum, and Peter dreamt of Angela and Charles Deveaux discussing the explosion. AltesUTC CH 09:47, 25 January 2010 (EST)

Examples?

Is there a reason why we don't have any examples?--Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:53, 9 February 2010 (EST)

  • You mean like a gallery? I don't know either. We should make one, there have been visual representations of it. --mc_hammark 18:03, 9 February 2010 (EST)

Fallout

I know its kind of late but the dream sequence at the end of fallout was kind of accurate, like angela said "dreams are open to interpretation": Simone gets taken away by issac, and nathan saving peter and new york. daevon 22:16, 15 February 2010 (EST)

  • Simone being present at all is quite inaccurate. So is Matt directing traffic, Claude being there, and Mohinder driving a cab. Oh, and New York being destroyed. :) But in all honesty, I really like that the dreams we see aren't slavishly predicting what will happen. I really like that there's a bit of interpretation needed--it certainly makes for better twists. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:49, 15 February 2010 (EST)
    • Yeah me too, but don't you think simone being dragged away by issac is a little nod to her being killed by him? daevon 22:54, 15 February 2010 (EST)
      • No. Honestly, I don't think they knew they were going to kill her off when Fallout was written. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:03, 16 February 2010 (EST)
        • I think they would have. I mean...why write her into the season, half way through, and not plan to kill her off? considering she was only in a handful after that? And I interpreted the dream like this :D
  • Isaac dragging Simone away: Isaac killing Simone.
  • Niki, D.L. and Micah: They were at Kirby Plaza.
  • Mohinder, pleased to see Peter, then frightened: He tried to help Peter earlier on, and then was worried about what he could do.
  • Matt directing the Sanders/Hawkins to safety: He's a cop.
  • Claire, running to Peter and shaking her head: Claire running to Peter and being forced to shoot him, however, she shook her head coz she wasn't able to.
  • Nathan "dying" with Peter, (we also saw Nathan get burned): Nathan flies Peter away and is badly burned by his radiation, and is then presumed dead by the remaining heroes at Kirby Plaza.
  • Claude, laughing at Peter's inability to control his power: Claude always taunted Peter in order for him to maintain control.

--"The Listener" 06:11, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Prescience vs. Precognitive Dreaming

Angela seems to name her ability "prescience", whereas the file calls it "precognitive dreaming". Thoughts? --Ricard Desi 23:27, 10 March 2010 (EST)

  • Precognitive dreaming seemed more explicit, IMO. Claire might say something like "most people think the power to heal...", but RCR would still be more appropriate.--PJDEP - Talk - Polls and Opinions 23:35, 10 March 2010 (EST)
    • Precognitive dreaming is definitely a better name than prescience !--Imax99 02:35, 11 March 2010 (EST)
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