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Talk:Joseph's ability
| Ability Naming Conventions | |
|---|---|
| The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order: | |
| 1. Canon Sources | Episodes |
| 2. Near-canon Sources | Webisodes, Graphic Novels, iStories, Heroes Evolutions |
| 3. Secondary Sources | Episode commentary, Interviews, Heroes: Survival |
| 4. Common names for abilities | Names from other works |
| 5. Descriptions of abilities | Descriptions |
6. Possessor's name |
If no non-speculative description is possible |
What is it?
Joseph used his power on Doyle in iStory. It looked a lot like mental manipulation. But he didn't touch Doyle to knock him out. So... Your thoughts? 
AltesUTC CH 14:24, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- I think it is mental manipulation.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 14:25, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- Joseph's ability just now, that way if it is mental manipulation we are not wrong, but if it's not, we're still not wrong. --mc_hammark 14:26, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- Personally I think it's something like Ability Negation, which would explain that Samuel could never reach his full potential.
- That was because there were too few evolved humans in the carnival to give Samuel a significant boost. My theory is - it's telepathy. Because in Bloodlines he somehow knows which Eli is the Prime.
AltesUTC CH
- Or Joseph just saw prime Eli breathing, i mean it was cold over there so there would be smoke if you breath.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 14:42, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- That was because there were too few evolved humans in the carnival to give Samuel a significant boost. My theory is - it's telepathy. Because in Bloodlines he somehow knows which Eli is the Prime.
- Personally I think it's something like Ability Negation, which would explain that Samuel could never reach his full potential.
- Joseph's ability just now, that way if it is mental manipulation we are not wrong, but if it's not, we're still not wrong. --mc_hammark 14:26, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- I say wait to see if more info about the ability comes to pass. With both the current iStory and graphic novel arch I'm sure it will. --OutbackZack 15:37, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- Right. We know the iStory arc will continue, and we can assume Joseph will appear again. (I have no inside information on this.) Before we ask for clarification or anything like that, let's wait to see what happens. I'm glad to see this ability has not been named yet. I think the situation is being handled very well. Nice job, guys. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:13, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- I'm really hoping that this turns out to be the empath ability. It certainly seemed like that was where we were headed early on in the season.--Gibbeynator 17:08, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- The biggest issue I have with Joseph being an empath is that he would have absorbed Samuel's ability, thus neutralizing as a threat. Personally, I think that Joseph has a power that has never been shown before, some sort of mental disruption, it would account for Samuel being so hazy when Mohinder first ran into him at the carnival. My other theory is that he used sedation, he may have lost control of his ability because he was about to collapse, not because the ability itself. Like, had he been holding a wine glass, when Joseph used his ability he would have dropped it, due to the fact that he gradually lost consciousness.--PJDEP 20:33, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- He could have used Lydia's ability to see that Samuel had no intention of killing him, at least at first. It certainly seemed like Samuel had no intention of killing Joseph, only doing so because he was angry at the time.--Gibbeynator 20:34, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- That may be true, but I was trying to say that Samuel has been made out to be the evolved human anti-christ of sorts. I feel like it would cheapen the experience of Joseph could do the same thing.--PJDEP 20:38, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- It appears to be Empathic Manipulation as it points to manipulating emotions to make others lose concentration with their abilities and making them collapse due to an intense emotion to that effect. --Garthak 08:21, 16 December 2009 (EST)
- Empathic manipulation requires touch, too. AltesUTC CH 09:07, 16 December 2009 (EST)
- Joseph's empathic manipulation may work differently then NBC promo girl's version.--PJDEP 15:19, 16 December 2009 (EST)
- By that logic, it can be any ability that requires touch, but Joseph has a different version that doesn't. If he had empathic manipulation, I think he could've swayed Eli and Samuel from their criminal ways. AltesUTC CH 05:05, 17 December 2009 (EST)
- He may not have felt comfortable, they didn't appear to be actually hurting anyone so it wasn't essential for them to stop. Also, changing their emotions wouldn't permanently change their nature.--PJDEP 15:31, 17 December 2009 (EST)
- By that logic, it can be any ability that requires touch, but Joseph has a different version that doesn't. If he had empathic manipulation, I think he could've swayed Eli and Samuel from their criminal ways.
- Empathic manipulation requires touch, too.
- It appears to be Empathic Manipulation as it points to manipulating emotions to make others lose concentration with their abilities and making them collapse due to an intense emotion to that effect. --Garthak 08:21, 16 December 2009 (EST)
- That may be true, but I was trying to say that Samuel has been made out to be the evolved human anti-christ of sorts. I feel like it would cheapen the experience of Joseph could do the same thing.--PJDEP 20:38, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- He could have used Lydia's ability to see that Samuel had no intention of killing him, at least at first. It certainly seemed like Samuel had no intention of killing Joseph, only doing so because he was angry at the time.--Gibbeynator 20:34, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- The biggest issue I have with Joseph being an empath is that he would have absorbed Samuel's ability, thus neutralizing as a threat. Personally, I think that Joseph has a power that has never been shown before, some sort of mental disruption, it would account for Samuel being so hazy when Mohinder first ran into him at the carnival. My other theory is that he used sedation, he may have lost control of his ability because he was about to collapse, not because the ability itself. Like, had he been holding a wine glass, when Joseph used his ability he would have dropped it, due to the fact that he gradually lost consciousness.--PJDEP 20:33, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- I'm really hoping that this turns out to be the empath ability. It certainly seemed like that was where we were headed early on in the season.--Gibbeynator 17:08, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- Right. We know the iStory arc will continue, and we can assume Joseph will appear again. (I have no inside information on this.) Before we ask for clarification or anything like that, let's wait to see what happens. I'm glad to see this ability has not been named yet. I think the situation is being handled very well. Nice job, guys. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:13, 15 December 2009 (EST)
Seen or unseen
Just now it's listed as unseen, but wasn't there a picture when it happened. It was kind of blurry. I think this counts as seen, doesn't it. I'll see if I can get a pic. --mc_hammark 15:07, 15 December 2009 (EST)
- Here. --mc_hammark 15:25, 15 December 2009 (EST)
Finally! :)
At last we have an ability for him! It may not be the best ability, but even so :) -- Leckie -- Talk 08:51, 16 December 2009 (EST)
- We just aren't sure what it is. Maybe neurocognitive deficit, but we need some more info. AltesUTC CH 09:04, 16 December 2009 (EST)
- I get the impression that Ernie Crum is getting back Arnold's ability as soon as Joseph enters the room! --Juba 08:52, 23 December 2009 (EST)
- What? --mc_hammark 09:35, 23 December 2009 (EST)
- I get the impression that Ernie Crum is getting back Arnold's ability as soon as Joseph enters the room! --Juba 08:52, 23 December 2009 (EST)
What If
Maybe his ability has nothing to do with Eric fainting. Maybe, it was the strain of Eric trying to use his ability that made him unconscious. Or yes, Joseph's ability is like the Haitians. Because in Season One, Matt fainted when he was sitting across from the Haitian. --Scorvi12 05:23, 17 December 2009 (EST)
- Matt fainted because his drink was drugged. AltesUTC CH 05:35, 17 December 2009 (EST)
- Oh, hahaha. Well, that point is squashed. But still, maybe it was the strain of Eric not being able to use his ability. Like in Dual, when he collapsed unconsciously after Sylar stopped him. --Scorvi12 06:45, 17 December 2009 (EST)
- Well, iStory says, "A tall man enters the tent, taking in the situation. He sighs, recognizing Doyle's ability. Suddenly, Doyle feels his focus weakening, and before long, his mental grip on Samuel dissipates. Someone is messing with his ability! Unable to fight back, Doyle is finally outdone, and collapses to the floor". Dunno, nobody passed out after trying to use their ability while under the Haitian's influence, they only got nosebleed, and Doyle didn't. As to how Sylar defeated Doyle... I think he somehow used telekinesis, but it's unlikely. I don't think he has mental manipulation or anything similar, though. AltesUTC CH 06:18, 17 December 2009 (EST)
- Well, I'm not sure yet. I suppose its a bit early for me to be making assumptions. Hahahaha. --Scorvi12 06:45, 17 December 2009 (EST)
- A totally crazy idea: what if it's ability diminishment? The description given in the iStory fits all the criteria: Doyle loses focus and passes out! (only there's no blue glow) AltesUTC CH 06:53, 17 December 2009 (EST)
- It would be so cool (and easier) if it was! It probably is something like that, plus loads of abilities are the same but done different. Like Knox enhanced strength and Niki's enhanced strength. --Scorvi12 06:57, 17 December 2009 (EST)
- And here's the kicker: If they absolutely needed to end it this season, all Joseph would have to do is get Ando brought to him/his time and POOF. No more abilities. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 09:04, 17 December 2009 (EST)
- A totally crazy idea: what if it's ability diminishment? The description given in the iStory fits all the criteria: Doyle loses focus and passes out! (only there's no blue glow)
- Well, I'm not sure yet. I suppose its a bit early for me to be making assumptions. Hahahaha. --Scorvi12 06:45, 17 December 2009 (EST)
- Well, iStory says, "A tall man enters the tent, taking in the situation. He sighs, recognizing Doyle's ability. Suddenly, Doyle feels his focus weakening, and before long, his mental grip on Samuel dissipates. Someone is messing with his ability! Unable to fight back, Doyle is finally outdone, and collapses to the floor". Dunno, nobody passed out after trying to use their ability while under the Haitian's influence, they only got nosebleed, and Doyle didn't. As to how Sylar defeated Doyle... I think he somehow used telekinesis, but it's unlikely. I don't think he has mental manipulation or anything similar, though.
- Oh, hahaha. Well, that point is squashed. But still, maybe it was the strain of Eric not being able to use his ability. Like in Dual, when he collapsed unconsciously after Sylar stopped him. --Scorvi12 06:45, 17 December 2009 (EST)
Consensus
Even with one demostration, there's plenty info to tell what Joseph can do. Let's get started? AltesUTC CH 14:21, 25 December 2009 (EST)
Pros:
- Joseph made Eric lose focus over his ability.
- He knocked Eric out.
Cons:
- René doesn't make anyone lose focus over their powers - they simply don't work in his presence, and it can be overcome.
- Joseph didn't touch Eric to knock him out, something which René needs.
- Joseph didn't display memory erasing aspect.
Pros:
- Joseph didn't touch Eric to knock him out.
- Eric lost his focus first. This may account as an effect of neurocognitive deficit.
Cons:
Something else
Pros:
Cons:
Pros:
- Joseph knocked Doyle out, which is more or less the definition of sedation.
- Loss of ability control could be attributed to a gradual loss of consciousness.
Cons:
- The wording used in the iStory "Someone is messing with his ability!" implies that whatever Joseph used affected the ability directly, and not affected as a byproduct of something else.
- Joseph didn't have to whistle like Samson did.
- It seems like a weak ability to give such an important character? (Is this relevant enough?)
I wasn't sure whether I could edit your original post to add this as a possibility, but if that's what you intended feel free to rearrange it.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:06, 25 December 2009 (EST)
- I still feel it's too soon to give it a name. There's just too many possibilities at the moment. I still want to give it some more time with the current istory and GN archs. If nothing else new comes from that then I'll be more willing to name this ability. --OutbackZack 15:20, 25 December 2009 (EST)
- Why are we rushing this? it's clear his ability will be revealed very soon so we may aswell wait. - Jenx222 | U / T / C | <inlcudeonly>08:00, 7 January 2012 (EST) 15:34, 25 December 2009 (EST)
- We did jump the gun with Damien's ability, although we may not want to do it again.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 16:11, 25 December 2009 (EST)
- It is absolutely too soon to give this ability a name. We have virtually no idea what this ability really does. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 22:57, 25 December 2009 (EST)
- I agree, it's too soon to name this ability. Let's hope for more iStory, or else a GN, timetravel/flashback episode, these should give us more info. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:00, 26 December 2009 (EST)
- Or if it's even his base ability, given all the talk of him maybe being an empath.--Gibbeynator 10:26, 29 December 2009 (EST)
- Well, we gave disintegration a name after a single demonstration and a huge debate, didn't we? AltesUTC CH 06:34, 30 December 2009 (EST)
- Well, we gave disintegration a name after a single demonstration and a huge debate, didn't we?
- Or if it's even his base ability, given all the talk of him maybe being an empath.--Gibbeynator 10:26, 29 December 2009 (EST)
- I agree, it's too soon to name this ability. Let's hope for more iStory, or else a GN, timetravel/flashback episode, these should give us more info. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:00, 26 December 2009 (EST)
Abandoned
Due to the recent focus shift in the GN's and iStory, I'm starting to feel as if we'll never see Joseph or his ability again :(--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:57, 29 December 2009 (EST)
Edgar's List
In Let It Bleed, the list of carnies that Edgar provides Noah says "Joseph Sullivan: controls emotions". So where does this lead us? :P --Whizzles 21:55, 4 January 2010 (EST)
- Except I don't think that exhaustion is an emotion. Plus, it's pretty tough to make a carnival act out of changing people's emotions.--Gibbeynator 22:34, 4 January 2010 (EST)
- The exhaustion could be a result of rapid emotional swings. Also, Samuel appeared to run the "business" end of the carnival, so he doesn't necessarily have an act.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:39, 4 January 2010 (EST)
- If he did have an act it could of been anything from amazing to pointless but Joseph could of made people feel satisfied by it. "The Listener"
- Hopefully someone can get a screen shot of that. If it's true then that's the name we'll use. It would be "unwiki" like of us if we didn't. --OutbackZack 15:13, 5 January 2010 (EST)
- I can't get a good screencap, but I can also tell you it looks as though Edgar went on Heroeswiki to find most of the answers. For example, it says "Game operator: telekinesis"; I find it funny that Edgar wouldn't even know the guy's name. xD There's also things like "Caleb: spider mimicry" which is the name I believe we made up. --Whizzles 16:56, 5 January 2010 (EST)
- oh lol. that is funnyGamerelite1 01:22, 6 January 2010 (EST)
- My page has a image User:WaterRatj/Edgar's_list -- (WaterRatj) 01:47, 6 January 2010 (EST)
- I can't get a good screencap, but I can also tell you it looks as though Edgar went on Heroeswiki to find most of the answers. For example, it says "Game operator: telekinesis"; I find it funny that Edgar wouldn't even know the guy's name. xD There's also things like "Caleb: spider mimicry" which is the name I believe we made up. --Whizzles 16:56, 5 January 2010 (EST)
- Hopefully someone can get a screen shot of that. If it's true then that's the name we'll use. It would be "unwiki" like of us if we didn't. --OutbackZack 15:13, 5 January 2010 (EST)
- If he did have an act it could of been anything from amazing to pointless but Joseph could of made people feel satisfied by it. "The Listener"
- The exhaustion could be a result of rapid emotional swings. Also, Samuel appeared to run the "business" end of the carnival, so he doesn't necessarily have an act.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:39, 4 January 2010 (EST)
- So I guess we change the name to Emotion Manipulation, or something that says he controls emotions. --OutbackZack 16:09, 6 January 2010 (EST)