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Talk:Miko's ability

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Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources Episodes
2. Near-canon Sources Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name
If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine the name for Miko's ability.

Ability name

Based on what we have seen so far, I would propose "digital transportation" as the name of her ability. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:39, 27 September 2015 (EDT)

  • I personally want to see what happens first. Too many questions. I'm not even totally convinced she DOES have an ability yet and that it's not an ability associated with the sword instead. How is her father in the game? Does he have the same ability? If she has the power, can she bring people with her? Can she move in/out of digital systems other than Evernow? (Admin (talk) 00:07, 28 September 2015 (EDT))
    • Oh, yeah, absolutely. I should have said in my message above that the proposition is for a future date. As of now, I think "Miko's ability" is still fine. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:14, 28 September 2015 (EDT)
      • Agreed. Just wanted to toss out my 2 cents in case anyone else came along. :) (Admin (talk) 00:17, 28 September 2015 (EDT))
        • I like "digital transportation," it fits the ability pretty well, but I agree with the waiting game. I kind of feel like this ability could be an offshoot of digital communication, for the record :) -- Psilaq R.- \m/ -_- \m/- 00:26, 28 September 2015 (EDT)
      • If we're gonna vote on a name to use in the future, I suggest Digitization, the definition of which is "the process of converting information into a digital format". -Kon (talk) 07:48, 28 September 2015 (EDT)
        • I second this name. That was actually the exact name I was thinking of. However, digital transportation does encompass the apparent ability of Miko to travel between points in the real world. If there's a way to encompass that aspect of the ability while also using the word "digitization," I think that'd be perfect. -Sincerely, Thrashmeister » talk- 08:16, 28 September 2015 (EDT)
        • Artificial Intelligence Mimicry/Physiology

Cyber Body Cybernaut Mimicry/Physiology Data Conversion Data Form Data Mimicry/Physiology Digital Body Digital Conversion Digital Mimicry/Physiology Digitization Digitized Information Physiology Video Form/Mimicry/Physiology

Virtual/Digital and Reality teleportation --Masterofgravity (talk) 20:38, 16 October 2015 (EDT)

Wacky Power

  • Can I just say how much of a mess this supposed ability, if it truly is Miko's ability (it's definitely SOMEONE'S ability), is? There have been some wacky powers on Heroes but I think this one takes the cake. Micah's power and Hana Gitelman's power are realistic examples of interfacing with machines and the digital world, but Miko's ability... damn, that's some crazy stuff. Probably one of my least favorite abilities on Heroes so far, just because of how it was represented, mostly with Miko pixelating in and out of the real world. Makes sense within the game, but not within the real world, no matter what your ability is... -Sincerely, Thrashmeister » talk- 06:44, 28 September 2015 (EDT)
    • I never really liked any power that physically transforms every atom of a character's body into something else, especially since abilities are supposed to be an adrenal reaction... that's just too crazy for me to believe could happen in reality. Especially since nine times out of ten, the character's clothes transform with them, for example water mimicry, smoke mimicry, freezing etc. In that respect, the ability often credited with being the most bizarre of them all (spider mimicry), would actually be more likely to happen in reality than any ability that completely changes your molecular structure. -Kon (talk) 07:48, 28 September 2015 (EDT)
    • The Thing is, they are making it seem like that she isn't using some kind of natural power, but rather something else. I may be wrong, and may be like Hiro's ability and how he thought it would only come back if he had the sword, and maybe this same placebo effect is happening with her. But powers that involve manipulation matter, aren't really strange and unexplainable, since everybody on the show manipulates matter, or at least most, excluding Sylar's OG ability and other abilities that rely on enhancing an already existing ability on the body, but yeah, for example, kinetic abilities affect matter and with a lot of practice could be used for other things, like using pyrokinesis to create plasma, or manipulate heat, since pyrokinesis relies on creating and manipulating fire, fire is the accelerating of particles at a rate were they start, well burning. Water mimicry and other mimicries, like fire mimicry rely on separating the particles of a body, and reassembling them by the means of either, making then a gas, a liquid, by using fire to reassemble the particles before they burn, a solid like earth, etc. But that just a theory :) -NiopTres 20:07, 2 October 2015 (EDT)

Ability name (revisited)

  • Ok, so a couple things for us to consider. Should we just redirect this to whatever name Hachiro's ability is given? They teased us a bit with Taylor almost unsheathing the sword... might have teleported her and that would have made it easier to say Miko didn't have an ability in the first place. :) I think we'll learn more about Hachiro creating Miko and how the sword plays in so we could defer the possibility of her not having an actual ability until then. Also should we try again for an ability name? I think "digital teleportation" (specifically for Hachiro's ability) would be a fairly accurate descriptive name without inventing an ability name of our own. (Admin (talk) 21:30, 29 October 2015 (EDT))
    • I don't think they're the same ability. As far as we have seen, Miko's ability is just to enter and exit Evernow, whereas Hachiro can digitize others and control the game simply by resting a hand on whatever machine it is running on. We don't know that Hachiro can digitize himself like Miko can, or that Miko can also do what Hachiro can do. As for the sword... well, I think it is a placebo. Kaito told Hiro in season 1 that the Kensei sword had nothing to do with the return of his powers, it was the return of his self-confidence by retrieving the sword that gave him his powers back. For these reasons I think it's important that the two pages stay separate, until at least there is some middle ground found with Miko's and Hachiro's powers. -Kon (talk) 00:59, 30 October 2015 (EDT)
      • That's a good point. I believe he has the ability to teleport in however after rewarching the scene I realize it's just speculation and that he didn't give any actual proof he can vs just sending other people. So, yeah, good call on the separate articles until we learn more. (Admin (talk) 01:11, 30 October 2015 (EDT))
        • For Hachiro's ability, I also think Kon has a good point. If the core of Hachiro's ability demonstrated so far is to control the game, then I am thinking "virtual reality warping" as a descriptive name for his ability (a descriptive name based on the common name of "reality warping"). I think Hachiro's ability might also be a form of cyberpathy.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:54, 30 October 2015 (EDT)
      • It must be the same ability; " Miko's" mission was meant to save her father, but the actual Miko died in a car crash, so Hachiro created the virus "Miko", was able to transfer his ability in the game to the virus " Miko" teleport into the the real world. There are few in heroes and heroes reborn with Child and Parents has the same ability, the only one, we know is Matt and Murray Parkman, Peter and Arthur had similar abilities; when, the virus "Miko" came arcoss her "father", a second time, he said, " you must save the master of space and Time, only Hachiro would had known this..--Masterofgravity (talk) 09:58, 30 October 2015 (EDT)
Miko's ability is probably an extension of Hachiro's. When his real daughter died, he created the in-game Katana Girl and then brought her to the real world with his ability, and because of that she can go in and out of the game. Sandubadear (talk) 13:00, 31 October 2015 (EDT)

Miko vs. Miko's replicant

    • Based on comments in Episode:Game Over (by Richard Schwenkman I think) and also based on Miko disappearing with the Evernow game conclusion--which was predicted by said comments, I am thinking the Miko seen so far outside of Evernow is supposed to be the manifestation of a video game replicant of his daughter and not his original daughter. Thus, I think we should talking here about Miko's replicant's ability and I would recommend moving this page to Miko's replicant's ability (and rename Miko's article to Miko's replicant). The original Miko could have had a different ability or none at all. In my opinion, Miko's replicant's excellent fighting skill outside of Evernow should be noted as a likely aspect of the programming of the game and/or Hachiro's ability, and not naturally gained, as it seemed to me that Miko's fighting prowess was a surprise to her. I realize we use cloning and replication interchangeably here, so I am fine with either term but I prefer the term replicant over clone as she forms all at once from Evernow into the Heroes world, whereas Harris and the other clones seem to rapidly grow into a whole being.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:54, 30 October 2015 (EDT)
      • I think I mentioned it before, but considering the Miko we know is the replicant and that the real Miko has thus far never been seen and only mentioned a few times, I still feel that it's more appropriate for us to call the replicant "Miko" and keep the names as is. The real Miko deserves to be, so far, nothing but a note on the replicant Miko's page. Even if the real Miko gets some screen time (as long as it's limited) I would argue that despite being real she should be the one relegated to a more descriptive name vs changing the one we know. Real or artificial, the replicant Miko (again, so far) is the most relevant Miko to the story. (Admin (talk) 03:09, 30 October 2015 (EDT))
        • I agree about the article names then, based on screen time. I think it makes sense to put a note that the article refers to replicant Miko on both the Miko article and the article for Miko's ability.--MiamiVolts (talk) 03:45, 30 October 2015 (EDT)
        • I agree. For example, our page for Jessica Sanders is not about Niki's real sister who died at a young age - it is about Niki's split personality, because that Jessica is more important to the story. We also have a page for the sister as well of course, at Jessica Sanders (Niki's sister). If or when the real Miko appears in a flashback or something, we can make a page for her, probably under the name "Miko Otomo (human)" or something along those lines. -Kon (talk) 04:10, 30 October 2015 (EDT)

So called ability

I think we should delete this "ability" or merge it with Hachiro's as a sub ability. Since Miko wasn't real and she was just a game character, she wasn't an evo. Which means she did not had a power. It was just extension of Hachiro's ability. If we consider this one as an ability we should also add it to Hiro's page, since Hachiro put him inside the game and he got out of it without Hachiro. --Sekobro (talk) 09:00, 2 November 2015 (EST)

  • If she didn't have a power, then how come Phoebe was able to block it in Game Over? -Kon (talk) 09:42, 2 November 2015 (EST)
    • Like I said, extension of Hachiro's power. Hachiro created an npc with an ability like his and pulled her out of the game. In my eye, Phoebe blocked Hachiro's ability. Just because some ability allows it's user to create something/someone, it doesn't mean that thing has an ability too. It's like saying "Hey, Harris's clones have some power. They act individually and they turn to ash/salt (or something) when they die. Not the coolest ability but it's something"--Sekobro (talk) 12:51, 2 November 2015 (EST)
      • I don't have an opinion on the name yet, but I do believe the two pages should be combined and the titles should direct to one page. They are the same power. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:37, 2 November 2015 (EST)
        • I personally also believe they are the same ability, however check the "Ability name (revisited)" discussion above. If we limit ourselves to what has actually been observed there's a case for it remaining split for the moment, though I do suspect they'll be merged soon. (Admin (talk) 16:40, 2 November 2015 (EST))

Ability name (III):

As having now seen the transformation work both ways (physical to virtual reality (June 13th, Part One) and virtual reality to physical (June 13th, Part Two), my thoughts have changed slightly and I want to present my current thinking on descriptive names for Hachiro's ability:

1) Hachiro held a hand to the machine in both transformations (Hiro's and Katana Girl's) and this hand he touches the machine with also glows/changes temporarily to a blueish-white pixel format, so I am thinking Hachiro's ability could involve cyberpathy (mentally interacting with a computer) and/or technopathy (mentally manipulating electronics)--my thinking is Hachiro is mentally configuring his laptop to accept/emit the virtual form as an energy pulse and his hand is shown glowing as it is accepting/emitting the energy pulse into his laptop. If we get confirmation of one or the other, then we can combine Hachiro's ability page with that page, but I think for now we should try to give the ability its own name.

2) I don't think digitization and materialization completely describe the transformation of the ability to/from digital information--they are only close in covering an individual aspect of the ability.... digitization only covers matter->digital and can leave behind an original object which isn't what happens for Hachiro's ability (no cloning of the matter is done and the original matter is gone after the transformation); similarly, materialization only covers digital->matter and can leave behind the original digital data (and it doesn't appear to me that is what happens either).

3) I also don't think digital/virtual reality transportation/teleportation work as descriptive names for Hachiro's ability as the matter is converted/transformed into a different environment and both digital transportation and digital teleportation imply to me that the destination is in a similar environment to the start with just the location changed within the current environment via digital means; or travel only into a digital environment and not the reverse. Also, I think both are terms used to denote telepresence--as in accessing a remote environment using a camera-mounted robot that sends pictures to and is controlled by your computer. Name variants I am not opposed to include "digital-reality transportation" and "digital-reality teleportation", which are both long names but I think they both work to describe the ability closely enough. They denote both environments and the transformation/transference.

4) However, my preference for a descriptive name having thought more about it is now for "digital-reality warping". I am also not opposed to "virtual reality warping" (my former preference), but I think it may not be specific enough for some people. I think both the virtual world and the physical one were distorted/warped when Katana Girl was brought into the physical world--the virtual world lost access to the character on the screen and the physical world got a person that did not exist there before. It was similar when Hiro was brought into the virtual reality Evernow: the physical world lost matter that was supposed to exist there and a digital environment obtained a character that did not exist there before. Two other alternatives that are less specific that I am not opposed to are "digital-reality transference" and "environmental transference"--neither are very specific, but I think they apply and are self-explanatory (the latter is also short--two words).

--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:21, 9 November 2015 (EST)

  • Based on all the different names offered so far I doubt we're going to reach a consensus for a name without the introduction of some more authoritative Heroes-based source. In the absence of that I suspect these abilities won't wind up renamed. (Admin (talk) 20:44, 9 November 2015 (EST))
    • Unfortunately, I agree. However, the two pages should definitely be combined. In fact, there never should have been two separate pages. I think the only reason that happened was because this power is named after one person. I'll combine them if there's no objection... -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:06, 9 November 2015 (EST)
      • Regarding merging the articles, I recall Admin commenting before that we were waiting to make sure that it was the same ability before merging them and I'm not sure his thoughts have changed...
Also, I think that Miko's ability within the game to be reset into the physical world when knocked unconscious in Evernow is likely an ability unique to her originally being a video game character and that's why Hiro wasn't able to escape by himself by falling asleep in Evernow, and it's probably an ability Hachiro himself does not innately have inside the game unless he manipulates the game to grant it to himself. I'm not sure if Miko would be reset if knocked out in the physical world, but that is something else I think we should consider adding in the notes as Miko used her skills as a fighter pretty well against the Yamagato guards so any abilities she had as a video game character she would probably have in the physical world unless Hachiro altered them.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:21, 10 November 2015 (EST)
I don't recall her having an ability to be reset into the physical world when knocked unconscious in the game world. Are you talking about the scene in Odessa? She gets knocked out, but just before passing out, she manages to close the sword, which brings her back to the real world. I don't think she comes back because she gets knocked out. She comes back just before she gets knocked out. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:29, 10 November 2015 (EST)
Yes, it's in Odessa and to me it looks like she gets knocked out and then the fall sheathes the sword with her still holding it. Katana Girl's unconscious body then returns to the apartment instead of where she had traveled to in the game--that's still a reset functionality as Miko's apartment in Evernow for some reason is represented as what looks like to me as the top of an abandoned bus.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:18, 10 November 2015 (EST)
Another aspect of her ability that could be noted is that she alone could defeat her clone and then insert the Kensei sword into a lock in the Eternal Fortress in Evernow, ending the game and freeing the Master of Time and Space.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:35, 11 November 2015 (EST)

Inorganic/Non-biological constructs

I started a discussion at Talk:Kenjutsu Martial Arts Dojo#Disappearing dojo building as to whether the dojo building from 11:53 to Odessa might itself be a construct and hence might disappear (transit somewhere else such as Evernow) when it's no longer needed. The things that point to that for me include that the shogun didn't give Ren a note with the address or tell it to him at the coffee shop; only constructs were in the dojo building before Ren arrived; and the dragon on the building looks a lot like the dragon illustrated in "Kensei and the Dragon" (though it occurred to me the similarity could be a coincidence as the legends suggest Kensei practiced Kenjutsu). Just thought I should move that discussion here as it relates to the ability more than the dojo building.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:23, 30 November 2015 (EST)

It's the sword's power, not Miko's

Now that Ren was able to leave the digital fortress by using the Kensei sword inside the videogame, it seems to me the power is in the sword, not in Miko. Hachiro used his ability to modify the sword, allowing those who wield it to be digitalized or rematerialized. I think this page should be deleted and the relevant info added to Hachiro's ability page.--Potatoes (talk) 11:24, 22 January 2016 (EST)

  • I don't think so. Since Hiro and Tommy left the game without sword. --Sekobro (talk) 12:05, 22 January 2016 (EST)