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Talk:Rapid cell regeneration/Archive 2

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something of some importance

my friend has noticed something about rapid cell regeneration...he states "...why does future peter have a scar, he cant have a scar because he has the ability to heal, so at any moment he is injured, he should be able to heal at that instant without the delayed healing. And even if he did gain a scar, isnt a scar just damaged tissue, so the scar should heal itself the moment it shows up..." also if the shanti virus was to stop evolved humans from using their powers, doesnt that also mean that it stops rapid cell regeneration and if the people were really unlucky then the virus could combind itself to become a rapid cell regenerative shanti virus?

Peter might not have healed because he didn't have the healing ability in that future, or some say that healing might not work when time is stopped, and the scar came from Hiro's sword. I personally, amongst others, think that the scar will never actually appear in the present, and is just a red herring and is insiginifcant. -- Tristan0709 talk 04:07, 12 January 2009 (EST)
Personally, I'm convinced that he has just received his scar, from his father. He managed to duck out of the way JUST in time (else it would have caught him right between the eyes as normal). Cause: no healing powers at the time. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 12:51, 12 January 2009 (EST)
But the thing is, is that peter if peter has ever gained his power back that would mean that anything that was previously damaged would be healed, so really shouldnt that mean that peters scar should heal in an instant?...its like giving giving adams blood to nathan, anything damages should instantly heal, therefore the scar should heal...and im talking about the future peter in season 1 not season 3...season 3 is easily explainable...peter lost his powers and was able to gain most of them back but rapid cell regeneration, hence the scar...rapid cell regeneration states that "the ability to regenerate cells at an increased rate, resulting in physical injuries healing"...a scar is a physical injury...peter from season 1 has in fact exploded and as shown has regenerated back...apparently with a scar...how he obtained the scar is what me and my friend are pointing at... No one 23:30, 12 January 2009
Nope. If Peter completely heals before getting regeneration, the scar would stay, cause even if it's scar tissue, the tissue itself isn't damaged, so no regeneration. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 06:21, 13 January 2009 (EST)

Maya's Ability and the Shanti Virus

if you had this ability. Would you be effected by Maya's ability and the shanti virus?

Not the right page to ask about either subject, but all that is known about these two things together is that in the original season two ending, Mohinder took Maya to Costa Verder where she used her ability to absorb the virus into herself, healing everyone. And I don't think she died doing that, so there you go. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 08:12, 12 January 2009 (EST)
On top of this, the Virus affects powers first, before killing you, so I imagine that yes, someone with RCR could be infected and die from the Virus. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 12:52, 12 January 2009 (EST)

Spot in the back of the head and killing a Regenerator

In several episodes its been shown that putting something into a spot in the back of the head of a regenerator will kill them, at least until its removed. Claire said that putting something there shuts her down so my guess is that's the part of the brain that controls the power and with something obstructing it, it can't work. Claire and Danko have both said that that spot is a regenerator's weakness and someone even called it their "sweet spot." It makes sense that the show would include this weakness: everyone has some kind of weakness no matter how powerful they are. This is just Claire, Sylar and Arthur's weakness. This weakness has been shown as far back as season 1: Claire and the branch and Peter and the glass. My guess is his body automaticaly mimicked her power and that's why he was able to regenerate after the glass was removed otherwise he probably would have died if it was someone else who did it without Claire as he has to activly summon the power unless the person is right there. Now this all makes sense, but with Arthur when he was shot the bullet was sent into the front of his brain not the back. So the bullet wouldn't have hit that spot. When I first saw the shot I thought that the bullet had gone all the way through his head and if it did it could have destroyed the brain at that particular spot, but otherwise it goes against what has been said about killing someone with this power.--WarGrowlmon18 15:06, 26 February 2009 (EST)

  • The show has established that heavy damage to the brain will permanantly kill a healer. Adam: There's no coming back from that.(to Peter) My best guess is that damaging that part of the brain will shut down the ability at least temporarily, but heavy damage to another part of the brain will kill a healer all the same. --Darmenos 14:43, 27 February 2009 (EST)

main image

I think that one of these pictures would be good for the main image.-- Catalyst · Talk · HL 20:54, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

  • Nah, the current one shows the toe growing, we don't get that idea from those two. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 21:02, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
    • But the second one I think it is, of Adam on the ground, he's getting up from a shotgun blast to the chest from a close range.-- Catalyst · Talk · HL 21:18, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

Microscopic spot in brain

I think it's speculative to say that Sylar has gained more control over his ability, and therefore the "kill spot" in his brain is only microscopic. First, we've always known that regenerators have that spot in their brains--there's no evidence that Sylar's is any larger or smaller than others'. Second, there's no evidence that Sylar has "more control" over this ability than others. In fact, there's no evidence that he has any control over it at all. But even if he did, there's no link between control over the ability and the size of the kill spot. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:48, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

  • I think he just meant that since the spot is so small, it's kinda hard to hit. Sticking something in is easy, but hitting it unless your at point-blank range to the spot, it can be missed.--WarGrowlmon18 21:01, 4 April 2009 (EDT)
    • But danko stabbed right into sylars brain and he was able to get up like it was nothing. I guess you really do have to hit the sweet-spot.Gamerelite1 22:16, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

Sylar's inexplicable surviving the glass in the "sweet spot"

It was so confusing for several episodes how he survived that. It had been said that putting something in the back of the brain would kill someone with that power and yet he somehow survived. Well now at least we know and that plot hole's been closed: the fire melted the glass. But here's a question; can fire really melt glass like that???--WarGrowlmon18 22:29, 6 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Sure! Have Sylar face up and the fire get hort enogh the glass will drip out. Now, what gets me, when I think about it, is the suspension of disbelief it takes to believe that Sylar's body was able to stay valid enough to regen after exposure to that extraordinarily hot temperature. But, it's a TV show, so anything can happen! :) --SacValleyDweller (talk) 01:26, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Problem with that is he was face down when Claire killed him. As for that last comment, Claire's body was able to regenerate after being horribly burned by the radiation from Ted in Company Man. That's no problem. And she was dead for at least a little while in The Eclipse Part 2. Also she was dead for several hours in season 1 after Brody accidentaly killed her and before the mortican accidently revived her. I think the glass just melted in Sylar's head, it didn't have to drip out, it just had to melt and no longer impede that spot.--WarGrowlmon18 11:27, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Claire was able to regenerate after standing next to Sylar when he blew up Costa Verde.

Turn and Face the Strange

Should it be noted that Sylar seemed to stop himself from regenerating right after Noah shot him?He may have just "played possum", but he also said he squeezed more blood out "just for show".--Sylar Fan09 18:00, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

Speed of healing

I was just thinking of how when healing is used to decive someone they seem to be able to make their "injured state" last for longer than if they just want to get up and heal. E.g. Clair being shot by Matt to fool Ted, she was able to "wait(?)" until she got upstairs until she healed, as opposed to Peter shot (twice) in the bar in Ireland and he got up almost straight up and pined him to the wall. --Omni314 19:54, 24 April 2009

  • I think she was just faking that she was still injured, the wound was under her shirt, so she bled a little and pretended to be down until she was out of sight. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 21:14, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
  • It could be possible, wasnt there an epsiode where Sylar was stabbed in the back or something and he waited a while until he regenerated again? --Scorvi12 08:26, 16 May 2009 (EDT)
    • Danko stabbed him in the back of the head, but Sylar had already moved the killspot elsewhere, so he stayed down like two seconds and got up. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:53, 16 May 2009 (EDT)

A long time ago, during an autopsy far far away...

Blue sparks ran across Claire's skin as she was putting it together.
Blue regeneration.PNG

I think that was just some weird reflection.--ERROR 18:14, 14 September 2009 (EDT)

Alteration Appearence will make the ability grow stronger

Sylar has shown with shapeshifter that the weak spots moves to different location, and maybe reduce the size 1st 1 we are sure second one we are not sure if Clair teams up with somebody with a alteration appearence then she can fight people and risk of her dying becomes limited.50000JH

I'm sorry, what?--ERROR 18:14, 14 September 2009 (EDT)

An Observation of Very Minor Importance

The article notes that Sylar stated that the "sweet spot" is microscopic. That's alright, because he did say that, BUT, it goes on, and it says that in order to hit the "sweet spot," one would need to either be a very good shot, OR have intimate knowledge of where it is. I think you would need either both of those, or just a big, sharp, object. I realize this is a very minor observation, but I still want to share it. Remove if too minor.--ERROR 18:14, 14 September 2009 (EDT)

Random Question

I was wondering: If Claire or someone else with RCR decided to work out, would they get really fit? What I mean is, since they heal, wouldn't their muscles be constantly tearing and repairing themselves, making them really buff? ZaxbeezZaxbeez

That, in fact, is already in the rapid cellular regeneration theory page.--ERROR 20:38, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

Needs to activate it when heads are cut open.

When Sylar both cut Peter and Claire head none of them regenerate straight away, being a Passive ability it would made sense as the cut appear it would disappear again in a fraction of a second. Even through Peter use it Sylar had 3/4 of his cut off but Claire had all her head cut off. User:50000JH/signature

  • Peter did regenerate almost immediately, and as for Claire... hmm... neither did she regenerate in Volume One on autopsy table until she put her skin together. Although that case would be really weird, I'm not sure why the top of Claire's head didn't just grow back. Arrghh, that Volume Three. Green.gif AltesUTC CH

Blood was seen coming from Peter when Sylar was cutting it open.User:50000JH/signature

  • Yes. that's usually what happens when you get cut.

Can someone with this ability die from a tumor?

Because Noah said that since a tumor is living tissue, and injecting Hiro with Claire's blood would only make his grow faster, wouldn't that mean that those who have this ability can die from a tumor that keeps getting bigger and bigger?--Ratclaws 17:24, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

  • I don't think a person who has this ability can develop a tumor in the first place. Noah only said that Claire's blood wouldn't work on Hiro because he already had a tumor, and the blood would make it grow faster. Although I might be wrong, I don't think Claire could ever get a tumor in the first place. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:29, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
    • If by some off chance she got one, such as being implanted, I think her ability would either push it out of her body, in a gross way, or it would keep fighting it as long as she's alive, reaching a balance. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:16, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
      • I'm fairly certain she can't develop a tumor. Thanks like tumors and aging happen due to damage to the dna. Dna damage comes from the simple fact that a persons cells reproduce imperfectly. It appears that people with RCR have a perfect form of mitosis that never results in dna damage. Hence why they can live forever.
        • I believe she could. Firstly there's the haitian. Secondly, there's an eclipse. She'd just need to exposed to radiation while the haitian or the eclipse were around. --mc_hammark 16:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)
          • Well the eclipse wouldn't last long enough for her to actually develop a tumor. Maybe with the hatian, but most likely her power would allow her to fight off the tumor unlike someone who just has a blood infusion.
            • Actually, Hiro could freeze time along with Claire and Ted (who he got by going back in time). During this time Claire is exposed to Ted's radiation. After waiting for several days, the radiation takes effect and Claire develops a brain tumour. Hiro unfreezes time and as time progresses Claire's ability makes the tumour grow faster. --mc_hammark 17:49, 24 October 2009 (EDT)
              • If time is frozen, how would she grow a tumor?Gamerelite1 15:37, 11 November 2009 (EST)
                • She's outside of time like Hiro. --mc_hammark 15:38, 11 November 2009 (EST)
                  • then she wouldn't get a tumor because her body would kill any cancer cells.Gamerelite1 20:12, 15 November 2009 (EST)
                    • Not if the haitian was blocking her ability. --mc_hammark 03:44, 16 November 2009 (EST)
                        • Ok. so if she doesn't have her ability, she can get hurt. Glad you discovered this.Gamerelite1 20:11, 7 December 2009 (EST)

A thought on regrowing body parts

In the Lizards episode, Claire cuts off one of her toes which then grows back. Although, in The Second Coming, Sylar examines her brain for quite some time, without the top of her head showing any signs of regenerating. It only heals when the part that was cut off is put back by Sylar. This doesn't seem very logical to me, since the head is as much a body part as a toe. Her brain also seemed intact while it was visible, so I personally don't think that is has something to do with her brain being damaged.

In The Second Coming, Claire also didn't seem to be able to move when her head had been cut open. Was this because she was actually paralyzed or "just" scared? She was able to talk and move her face though. So, what do you think? Wouldn't it have made more sense if her head had regenerated? Or did Sylar "block" her power is some way temporarily? --Helix 15:42, 28 October 2009 (EDT)

  • I think the fact she had something lodged in her head (Sylar's finger(s)) stopped it from doing so, and there was a time delay before her toe grew back, so I'm thinking that the time between his removing his finger and putting her head back is in the same kind of time frame. That or, it only works with limbs. --mc_hammark 15:46, 28 October 2009 (EDT)
I think she couldn't move because Sylar was using TK to keep her in place. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:11, 28 October 2009 (EDT)

Shot through the Brain

I'm really confused, wouldn't Claire die like Arthur if she got shot through the brain but in "An Invisible Thread" she makes out that she would live.. --Scorvi12 03:02, 16 November 2009 (EST)

  • But does the guy that she stood up to know that? --mc_hammark 14:09, 16 November 2009 (EST)
    • It depends on whether he hits the spot or not, and according to sylar, it's very unlikely that it will happen.

aka

When was this ability refered to as epithelial cell regeneration? I can't ever remember this being mentioned unless it was in an interview or something. If someone could let me know and leave a link if there is one. If it's just something that a fan has said then it should be removed. Thanks. --mc_hammark 13:39, 3 January 2010 (EST)

  • It was called that in the Genesis files I belive --Leckie -- Talk 14:21, 3 January 2010 (EST)
  • Actually I was wrong, that would be the Moziac file. Mohinder shows the file to Nathan when he is explaining Peter's ability to him. -- Leckie -- Talk 14:25, 3 January 2010 (EST)

Peter's Regeneration

I'm just curious about this. I don't know if theis is discussed before here, but is Claire's regeneration weaker than Peter's(when he still has Empathic Mimicry in the first season), though Claire naturally held the ability? When Sylar tried to open Peter's skull in Season 1, his regeneration quickly kicked in, quickly repairing the incision and ultimately refusing/preventing the brain removal attempt of Sylar. But when Sylar did the same thing to Claire, her regenration did not kick in quickly enough to prevent Sylar from prying open her skull. Am I correct here? Was this already explained in a discussion here or something? Just curious...can anyone be kind enough to explain this, if you have any explanation? Realistic

  • The way I see it, Claire's was never conscious, it was always a passive ability. Peter on the other hand, had to remember Claire to heal, so the sooner he remembered her, the faster he regenerated. Another point to note is that the more powerful a character is, the more control they seem to have over passive abilities, like in V4 when Sylar squeezes all the blood out of his body before healing after Noah shoots him in shapeshifted form. --mc_hammark 07:51, 17 January 2010 (EST)
    • Sylar could also have used telekinesis to make sure the skin stayed separated, if you recall, Sylar stopped cutting Peter's head when he noticed he was healing. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:14, 17 January 2010 (EST)

2 problems

I have two issues I'd like to bring up: one old and one, from what I can tell, new.

First, the old... it has long been debated about the "permanent death" aspect of regenerators. We currently have it as: "In several episodes it has been stated or shown that an individual with the ability can be permanently killed. It is stated by Adam Monroe that if a person with the power is decapitated or the brain is severally damaged the ability to heal is canceled out and leaving the individual permanently dead (Out of Time)(Truth & Consequences)."
Now, first of all, the only instance we have "seen" of perma-death is Arthur, but we don't know if that is simply because the bullet remains lodged inside his head or not (unless the GNs provided us with more info I'm unaware of). As such, we have the second part, which is what Adam Monroe stated.
I'm still not sure why we are taking Adam's opinion (even bolstered by Angela and Victoria) over Sylar's. Sylar specifically states, in several episodes, that he and Claire cannot be killed. Add to that the fact that his ability let's him see how things work (almost always as much or more than any expert in the show), and I'd say we have enough evidence that the matter should at the very least be classified as non-definitive (ie - We should not say that regenerators can be permanently killed, as we do not have proof of that...personally, I feel that the evidence actually points the other way).
While this issue may have been "put to rest" in the past, the current episode gives us reason to resurrect it, as Sylar specifically states, several times, that neither he nor Claire can be killed, even listing them as "immortal." I'm not going to change anything yet, since it's better to discuss things first and get a consensus, but I truly don't see how we can honestly maintain the paragraph as it is (again, unless I missed something in the GNs or elsewhere that absolutely declares that a regenerator can be killed, and that Sylar was either wrong or lying).

Second, the new...Claire cannot feel pain since Sylar opened up her head, but Sylar stole her power AND knows exactly how it works (after some serious examination of her brain). Yet Sylar can still, obviously, feel pain (eg - pencil in the eye). This seems incongruent to me, but it should still be noted somewhere. --Stevehim 00:59, 20 January 2010 (EST)

  • I didn't read the first question--too long. Sorry. But to answer your second question, Claire felt pain after the eclipse. It was a momentary anomaly that lasted a few episodes. Nothing incongruous. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:09, 20 January 2010 (EST)
    • But, in Let It Bleed Claire cut herself when cutting the lemon and limes, and she didn't heal and she said that it was good to feel pain again. Which means she can't feel pain still. I always thought Sylar did something to her nerves when he opened up her head. --Scorvi12 07:16, 20 January 2010 (EST)
      • Since season one, it was stated that Claire did feel pain, but she could resist it much better, as if her pain wasn't the same sensation as other people's pain. I think the absolutely no pain from season 3 was just an emotional problem she got over it; in Let It Bleed, she probably just meant that it's good to feel "true" pain again, because she normaly feel a "reduced" pain. Regarding the permanent death thing, I would say it's a contradiction between canon sources, so we should just list both possibilities (regenerator can/cannot be permanently killed) and let the reader decided what's the correct option.--Referos 08:46, 20 January 2010 (EST)
        • Pain is the body's way to tell the brain that something is bad for it. Most likely, Claire's body became used to the ability, it already "knows" that bruises and stuff like that aren't as harmful cause it knows Claire will heal. On the immortality thing, LotR fans forgive me if I got it wrong, but Sylar could be saying immortality in that same context. Other than violence and injuries, they'll live forever. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:46, 20 January 2010 (EST)
        • Re: Claire's pain...if we are maintaining that she once again feels pain, however briefly, then I think this should be rephrased, as it reads like she doesn't at all: "However, since having her brain examined by Sylar (The Second Coming), Claire has stated that she no longer feels pain of any kind, although when demonstrating the power to Gretchen, she pretended she did for a second." (Personally, I am in the camp that she doesn't feel pain, and that he Let It Bleed comments were literal...assuming she meant something like "real pain" is assuming, and something we can't really do...I would also accept IE's explanation, though that amounts to the same thing...that she no longer feels pain).
          Re: Immortality...first, I'll better space the previous post in case anyone wants to read it (meant to do that initially and forgot). Done. As for the immortality thing, to say that he meant "immortality provided that..." seems to be, imo, trying to interpret his words in a specific fashion to support a pre-existing notion...namely that regenerators can be killed. One could do the same with Adam's words (or Angela's, or Victoria's), and say that what they meant by permanent or "no coming back from that," was that it's permanent as long as the brain remains destroyed/impeded (ie - has an object in it, or remains separated...eg - part kept in a metal box so it cannot 'reform' with another part)
          My basic point is that awhile ago we had a big discussion about 'what authorities to trust in the show, and iirc, it was decided that when conflicting comments are made, we go with the higher authority. Due to his specific knowledge of how the power works, which is unmatched as far as we know by anyone else in the show 9including Chandra and Mohinder), I would think Sylar's opinion should prevail based on the criteria we set. At the very least, an opposing opinion should NOT prevail since it was stated by people less in the know, and think Referos' suggestion is the best course of action.
          --Stevehim 11:31, 20 January 2010 (EST)

Canon...RCR permakills...please weigh in

Since we are having great debates with regards to naming conventions and canon, I would like to bring this up again (as it's been a pet peeve of mine for some time now). This time I'll keep it short though...why are we taking the collective words of Angela, Victoria and Adam over Sylar with regards to whether or not someone with RCR can be permanently killed? All sources are the same level (canon), which means we go to the most expertise. On the one hand we have 2 company founders and someone who has lived (not died) with RCR for 400 years. On the other we have someone who understands how things work and has examined the brain (for the longest we've seen him ever do so) of an RCR and then take the power. Further, Sylar (and thus the writers) keep on stating, over and over, that RCR's cannot die. Form my POV, once Sylar used his IA to examine the brain, that puts him at the top of the list of experts...even above Chandra and Mohinder, since they never got to study brains directly like that. Does anyone object to me revising the bit about them being permanently killed to illustrate that it is unclear at this point? --Stevehim 04:51, 11 February 2010 (EST)

  • I think it's a matter of semantics. Given enough regeneration, they cannot (naturally) die. No disease will kill them, and they will never grow old. However, they can be killed (the "Kill Spot"). That said, even then if whatever "killed" them is removed, they come back to life. The exception being a destroyed-enough head (Victoria attempting to shoot both Peter and Adam in the head a shotgun blast, "I knew blowing your head off was the only way to be sure." and "There's no coming back from that one.", for example). In short, they cannot die, but they can be killed temporarily, unless the head is destroyed while temp-dead. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 10:07, 11 February 2010 (EST)
    • I believe that RCR immortality is akin to elf immortality (LotR fans, don't smite me), from the little I understand and know about LotR, elves are immortal in the sense they have biological immortality. However, they can be killed through violence and harm. In RCR case, that's just a lot harder. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:20, 11 February 2010 (EST)
      • At least 3 people with RCR HAVE been killed. Either by taking their powers, with Adam, neutralising their powers with Future Peter, or blowing their heads into bits with Arthur.--Cro Magnon 12:35, 11 February 2010 (EST)
  1. Re: Ricard - That is not what has been stated by Sylar. He explicitly stated that he 'couldn't kill Claire, even if he wanted to.' If it was simply a matter of fully destroying the head while temp-dead, Sylar had any means of doing that to her. But since he said he couldn't, we have to take his words at meaning there is literally no way to permanently kill her.
  2. Re: IE - Interesting theory, but that's speculation. We can't really draw on a select interpretation of 'immortality,' to suit our purposes. Sylar has claimed he will live forever, that he's immortal, and that he could not kill Claire, even if he wanted to. That seems pretty definitive to me, and all of that comes after any comments made by anyone about being able to perma-kill a RCR EH. (Incidentally, while it is true the Elves were immortal and yet could be killed, it's more complicated than that...they also would inevitably fade away and be forced to leave ME, could choose to become human and give up their immortality, and sometimes be resurrected. As such, that 'brand of immortality' should not be applied here, imo).
  3. Re: Cro Magnon - Since Adam's power was taken, he does not qualify for having the ability, and so he wasn't a RCR EH when killed. Both Future Peter and Arthur could just as easily have obstructions in their kill spot...afaik, it has never been confirmed anywhere that neither can come back, nor that either sustained more serious brain injuries than what we've seen Peter, Claire and Sylar all return from (and in both cases, others have had similar injuries and returned, so that would be another contradiction).


What I am saying is that, from my POV, all of the arguments so far are aimed at choosing certain interpretations to make Sylar's comments fit with other people's...we don't generally do that in other cases, do we? To me, this still comes down to directly conflicting data, which then comes down to a matter of expertise, which is covered in the naming conventions.
It's also only one line, so I was hoping nobody would care making it less speculative. :) --Stevehim 12:49, 11 February 2010 (EST)

  • Like I said, my knowledge of LotR is limited, all I know is what I saw in the movies, and I only saw each once. The only things I remembered on elf immortality was what I put in my theory. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 13:17, 11 February 2010 (EST)
    • I know...I was just clarifying (and greatly simplifying, as there is a bit more to it than what I stated as well) Elf immortality a bit. :) --Stevehim 13:42, 11 February 2010 (EST)
  • To keep beating this horse, as per the stated canon rules:

    "However, when two canon sources contradict one another, each statement would require another canon source to be wrong, meaning either statement requires speculation, and neither can legitimately be treated as a canon source without requiring an explanation of the conflict. Since such an explanation necessarily breaks the article's in-world perspective, it should be confined to the Notes section."

    Can someone explain to me how this is not the case here in a way that does not rely on us speculating about the definition of words and phrases like 'immortality' and 'live forever?' --Stevehim 18:31, 16 February 2010 (EST)

    • To be honest, him saying he couldn't kill her if he tried could allude to anything. Perhaps he realizes (using a certain ability to understand the variables in how things work) that trying to kill Claire tends to attract attention. Any attempt to actually KILL Claire would undoubtedly be prevented by a time traveler or someone who recognizes her importance. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:43, 16 February 2010 (EST)
      • Alternatively, he may see the importance of the Catalyst in her, hence calling her special, even among the special. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:44, 16 February 2010 (EST)
        • Aside from the fact that what you're stating is complete speculation, that's not what he said. He said: "I couldn't kill you, even if I wanted to," (not counting the other 3 or 4 times he's indicated immortality). In any case, I could apply your same argument to anything any of the others said. Maybe Adam meant 'There's no coming back from that,' to be 'there's no coming back from that psychologically.' Honestly, you're basically trying to interpret what Sylar said to fit in with the previous canon statement we have, which isn't what we're supposed to be doing, afaik. --Stevehim 18:56, 16 February 2010 (EST)
          • I'm speculating and postulating, yes, but only in response to your claim that one statement by Sylar throws the entire canon out of whack. Because we've seen in the show what does and does not temporarily and permanently kill a regenerator. Sylar had never even temporarily died at that point, but Adam (who had the ability for over 300 years) appears quite certain of the permanence of a killing stroke that obliterates the head. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 19:03, 16 February 2010 (EST)
            • First of all, it was at least 3 separate statements by Sylar, if not more. Second, how is what Sylar says any less canon than what Angela, Victoria, and Adam have said? We should not be 'trying to make new information fit with old,' nor should we be assuming that if it is old info, it should be kept. Re: Adam...are you saying that Adam is a more informed source than Sylar? I'd very much disagree. Clearly, Adam has never suffered an obliteration of the head, so I fail to see how he'd come by that information, unless he saw it happen to someone else, of which there isn't even a shred of evidence. On the other hand, we have Sylar, who examined Claire's brain with his power, which to me, makes him as much of an expert as anyone in the history of the show. --Stevehim 19:08, 16 February 2010 (EST)
  • As a compromise, I would propose adding "However, Sylar has referred to himself and Claire as immortal (Pass/Fail), as well as stating that she can never die, and that he could not kill Claire, even if he wanted to. (The Second Coming) Stated in such a way, I can't see any objection to this, but figured I'd at least see what people had to say before adding it. --Stevehim 19:31, 16 February 2010 (EST)
    • At the moment, we have conflicting sources of the same tier. What we need to account now is how much a character knows about the subject (knows/has/understands the ability) and how many characters say what (Adam, Angela, Victoria and Sylar). Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:33, 16 February 2010 (EST)
      • Actually, I would be inclined to agree that there is something specific about Claire (and thus Sylar) that she simply cannot die ever. Sylar said outright that Claire's brain "wasn't like the others". Followed by "You're different. You're special. And I couldn't kill you, even if I wanted to. You can never die. And now I guess neither can I." --Ricard Desi (t,c) 00:34, 17 February 2010
        • Any ideas on how to proceed? I'd argue Sylar has the most knowledge of the subject, due to his ability, then Victoria (who studied such things), then Angela and/or Adam. That's just my opinion though. If we can't decide who has authority, do we just list everything and say 'it's unclear at this time,' or do we remove it all? Should we ask one of the admins? --Stevehim 20:16, 16 February 2010 (EST)
          • I wouldn't list Adam so low, he had the ability and lived with for about four centuries. Angela and Victoria are the bottom ones for me. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:21, 16 February 2010 (EST)
            • I thought about that, and it's true; having lived for 400 years he would have been able to test his powers a lot. On the other hand, he would not have any idea of the 'science' behind it (whereas Victoria, and by extension Angela would), and he certainly wouldn't have been able to test the 'perma-death' thing. Still, I suppose I can see that he'd be equal to (or possibly more informed than) Victoria and Angela. What I do remain steadfast on is that Sylar knows more than all of them; separately or combined. For powers that Sylar has acquired (via brain examination), I don't think there's anyone who can really match him...including Chandra and Mohinder. --Stevehim 22:12, 16 February 2010 (EST)

why is it that if claire looses her foot or toe, just a new one grows back but when sylar removed the top of her head it on her head it grew together with her head instead of just generate a new one? and can claire die if she runs out of air because i think meredith says that once and also claire needed air from that under water breathing guy when hiding in a pool but in season 4 noah said that he will run out of air and claires lunge will keep regenerating?Angel0941 13:30, 18 February 2010 (EST)

  • No good answer for the head issue, except that maybe it didn't have time to grow back at that point, and was a more substantial injury than the toe. As for the death by suffocation, Claire would suffocate and then come back again. This is shown with Adam in The Ten Brides of Takezo Kensei (he's trapped in a coffin) and confirmed by HRG in Brave New World. As for the Meredith situation, I have always been a proponent that the entire thing was Meredith getting into her daughter's head more than anything else (there is A LOT of evidence that that's the case...I can dig up the posts discussing it if you want to delve further into it). --Stevehim 00:43, 21 February 2010 (EST)

no you convinced me ande i think that under water breathing kid was just for drama so they could kissAngel0941 08:50, 21 February 2010 (EST)