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Fan Creation talk:Fan powers/Archive

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Need for page

Do we really need this page? Does anyone else think we should move it to a user subpage namespace? Heroe!(talk) (contribs) 11:05, 20 May 2007 (EDT)

  • I don't care one way or the other. It's no worse (or better) than some of our other fan creations. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:04, 20 May 2007 (EDT)
    • I hate this page. Just wanted to say that. That's too useless :( I do think that people doesn't come to this page with a power idea. I think they come to this page; then begin to search for a cool power; and write down 3 or 4 lines.. Well; whatever :) That was my coup de gueule -- Frenchflo.gif (talk) 14:42, 17 August 2007 (EDT)
      • I kind of agree with you, FF. I really don't like formatting this page and fixing grammar mistakes, and I think there's a total of about six really solid powers here, and another four or five that are useful because they make me laugh. The rest? Well, I agree with you. However, I like this page for one reason: it serves an important purpose for the site. Silly or not, people get hooked on the site by adding powers, or whatever makes them happy, and then they stick around, and that's a good thing. After all, I started on this site just looking at theories pages, which I don't like much either. But if it weren't for those pages, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:56, 17 August 2007 (EDT)
        • Hehe, you just used tolerancinesis combined with a little bit of the-more-the-merrier-ination ! -- Frenchflo.gif (talk) 15:00, 17 August 2007 (EDT)

I think if this page is to exist:

  • Each power listed should only provide a brief description and limits.
  • Otherwise, it should definatley belong on a userspace.--Riddler 18:11, 20 May 2007 (EDT)
    • And the most recent addition is why this page shouldn't. People are retarded. --Riddler 18:46, 20 May 2007 (EDT)
  • Since it's been contributed by more than one user (with actual content versus removing content), then I'd stear away from moving it to a subpage. But prior to the other two one-time additions, yes, it belonged as a user subpage.--Bob 19:55, 20 May 2007 (EDT)
  • Should we enforce some level of seriousness, here, or should we just leave silliness like "tomatosis" alone? --Ted C 13:35, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

Hmmm

I decided to reserve judgment on this article for a few days because, really, it's no different than any of the other fan creations. However, since it seems like people are going to take it seriously (there's a stern warning not to add silly powers now), then I think it should be shot in the face before it gets out of control. The 'ships articles were enough of a headache, what with the prolonged unfunny edit wars, and the Theories articles are still like that. No one is ever going to agree on what constitutes a "silly" fan power and what constitutes a "serious" fan power. I say we either let people add whatever they want (and trim it to a list--we don't need paragraphs on hypothetical powers) or kill it now before it gets out of control.--Hardvice (talk) 18:20, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

  • I think that's a great solution. Let's let it stew and see what comes of it. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:54, 21 May 2007 (EDT)
    • I think it is funny that in the same edit that the warning not to add silly powers was added, two silly power names were added "crystallogenesis" and "metallogenesis". -Lөvөl 12:35, 22 May 2007 (EDT)

Standards

If we're going to have this page, can't we at least come up with some standards for inclusion and naming? Heroe!(talk) (contribs) 20:51, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

  • Page definatley needs hard standards if it's not to be a user subpage. --Piemanmoo 16:29, 22 May 2007 (EDT)
  • Like I said, just a brief definition of the power and it's limits. We don't need to know how it could be used in battle.

An example I could think of would be: --Ability: Weather Control
Description: The ability to control aspects of weather, such as rain, snow, and lightning.
Limits: One can only control the weather in an immediate area, and if extreme caution and concentration isn't used, it can become uncontrollable.

Ability: Manifestation Activation
Description: Through concentration, he who has this ability can, in short terms, activate ones power, even if they are only an infant.
Limits: This can be harmful to those who don't have an ability to manifest, and those who are too young may not be able to control their ability.--Riddler 17:37, 22 May 2007 (EDT)

Use of Limits

Looking at what's been put here so far, I'm inclined to think the "Limits" category is useless. Almost every one I've read so far has "the limits are unknown". In practice, individuals with essentially the same power might have far different limits, anyway. For instance, "ballistic telekinesis" is really just "telekinesis" with a particular limit on its use. For a "fun" page like this, the limits category could be used differently than we use it in the regular Power pages. Looking at an example...

Bioluminescence is the ability to emit light from one's own body. This light is bright and potentially blinding.
Limits: The limits to this ability are currently unknown.

This entry would work better if part of the description were actually converted to a limit, as follows...

Bioluminescence is the ability to emit light from one's own body.
Limits: This intensity of the light may range from a dim glow to a blinding radiance.

Keep in mind that people are essentially proposing new powers: it's not like we're trying to determine the limitations of powers we've already seen in use. Limits may not even be the best word to use, although I'd hesitate to make someone mass-change the entire page.
--Ted C 09:51, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

  • I added an entry for Enhanced Sight to demonstrate what I mean. --Ted C 09:56, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

It could work

  • I think this is a good idea for also the fans to show what powers they would want Heroes characters to have. But I'm just curious, should we edit the silly ones out like tomatosis or leave it for laughs? Otherwise, I think this was a good idea. I agree with Riddler, I think there should be a layout and an organized matter. Jason Garrick 21:53, 22 May 2007 (EDT)
    • I re-typed Biological Perpetuity. If you guys like it, I'll do the rest to the best of my ability so we have some structure for this page. It also lessens the bulk. --Riddler 22:22, 22 May 2007 (EDT)

Check the history...

Tell me what you think. --Riddler 23:24, 22 May 2007 (EDT)


  • Anything? Also, I added mine.

A fair few of these powers would actually fit very well into the show, although others like Crystal Generation, Biological Weaponry, Instant Fatality, and Metal Generation don't really fit. On the show, most of the powers don't involve generating something from the body, but having an enhanced way of using a body part, such as propelling oneself through the air or walking through a wall... and instant death seems too powerful. --Riddler 15:28, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

    • The site's not really a place to expand ideas that would fit on the show. It's more of a repository of information of things that are actually on the show like the episodes and the graphic novels. Plus there's hundreds of edits for people to go through, so this page isn't exactly one we're checking often.--Bob 17:28, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

Record

Congratulations, fan powers, on being the first article with 100 sections. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:04, 5 July 2007 (EDT)

  • I think we can combine and delete some of the sections. Skiaporation, Skiakinesis, and Umbrakinesis are all essentially the same. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 00:08, 6 July 2007 (EDT)
    • Go for it. But if more than one person added to the power, all names should be attributed (even though I don't quite understand why there is an "added by" section for each power in the first place). -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:09, 6 July 2007 (EDT)
      • The 100 comment made me Lolizze, Ryan.--Bob 02:35, 12 August 2007 (EDT)

Editing

Okay, so we all know Wikipedia is all about editing, but there's something about editing someone else's creations that the majority of us shy away from. Put simply, a good handful of these fan powers could be improved on and merged to make more sense, or to give the power more meaning - take Tempokinesis for example, the ability to manipulate sound waves. It could also be used to disguise sound waves to make the user inaudible, able to sneak around in silence for example, but its not mentioned.

So... does anyone care if I or anyone else edits in such a way? Maybe this page could eventually have a use :) --Moonkea 17:29, 11 August 2007 (EDT)

  • Go ahead. We removed the "created by" lines so that it's open for anyone, as opposed to someone's "property". Feel free to expand.--Bob 17:48, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
    • Ditto. Anything to put this page on a diet would be good. Combine away. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:54, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
    • I haven't really looked at this page in awhile. But all the powers that I added, which were about three or four all or gone. It's not fair that you think your definition is better than someone elses. Lets retake the ability to manipulate sound waves. Maybe the user can't disguise sound waves to make the user inaudible. Not that I disagree but it was the original person's definition. I think that adding onto someones definition is okay but totally deleting powers is stupid and unfair. And that kind of made me upset. One thing I made, Cannon Flight was made into this. Canonization or is the ability to canonize something to make it true or definite in the continuity. Why would you use the word in the power that your defining. So, let's not delete other powers but add on to them, or to make something more understandable. Because that defintion just flew right over my head. :l Jason Garrick 00:11, 31 August 2007 (EDT)
    • I see what you're saying - I went through this list merging a lot of powers just because they were duplicates. In one case two powers next to each other were pretty much identical. Take your example of sound waves: Could Sound Wave Manipulation be merged with Tempokinesis? Well, yes, it could, and I think I merged three powers into Matter Manipulation. The more editing the better. I bet more can be merged, and more can be expanded upon, we just have to think about them a bit more.--Moonkea 00:25, 31 August 2007 (EDT)
      • Cannon Flight was not changed into Canonization, they coexisted for awhile. I don't know what happened to Cannon Flight, check the history, but you can add it back. If the definition for Canonization does not make much sense, you can change it, it was meant to be a joke about the discussions on whether something is canon or not. -Lөvөl 02:48, 31 August 2007 (EDT)
      • Yea, that didn't make sense, lol. I don't really care but I just don't think powers should be deleted, if it got deleted by accident then I don't mind, but there were a few others (not just mine) not there anymore. That's just my main concern for those who's powers got deleted. Jason Garrick 23:15, 31 August 2007 (EDT)
        • Ah, the beauty and the curse of the wiki: editing. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:21, 31 August 2007 (EDT)

So once "Stench of a Thousand Corpses" becomes a power shown on the show or in the GNs...

If one of these are actually shown on cannon source, I guess we remove it from here. Correct?--Bob 17:51, 11 August 2007 (EDT)

  • That's right, because then it's no longer a "fan" power, but an actual power (in the world of Heroes, at least). I think some powers have a good chance of making appearances on the show, but not others. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:29, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
    • So, I was dead chuffed at finally managing to write the entry to ANF and now, after watching and reading an absolute bucket load of Heroes stuff, I learn about Muscle mimicry, which is different enough to warrant two versions of a power? Yeah? Well, probably, but how close are we going to get before actually removing an entry from here because its now official for want of a better word. --Moonkea 14:36, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

Organizing

Might we organize these powers somewhat? An alpha split shouldn't be too hard. We could also organize them by area like Dr. Suresh's Activating Evolution website does, ie.:
- 1 Manipulation of nature and the traditional elements
- 2 Manipulation of waves
- 3 Manipulation of atoms and matter
- 4 Enhanced human capabilities (physical)
- 5 Enhanced human capabilities (Mental)
- 6 Miscellaneous
My preference is a simple alpha split.--MiamiVolts (talk) 18:53, 11 August 2007 (EDT)

  • By "split" are you referring to creating additional sections and subsections, or are you referring to splitting it into multiple articles? I don't think this article should be split into multiple articles, but I do think it could be interesting to split it into sections based on the nature of the power if someone wanted to tackle that. Since the powers are already in alphabetical order I dont think splitting into sections alphabetically really adds much to the article. (Admin 19:18, 11 August 2007 (EDT))
  • Lucky I checked here before editing - I was just about to clean some of these things up. For starters there are about 6 powers that can alter matter one way or another, when a power called something as simple as Matter Manipulation would sum everything up. I was and may well be about to clean the list up in this way, and I'm for cleaning it up and categorizing it a better way after that. Also, looking at the Activating Evolution page, would abilities already listed there need to taken off here, or is that page totally irrelevant to this one?--Moonkea 20:05, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
    • The page there is irrelevant when it comes to the list here. It's just linked as another reference to a fan-created list of powers. (Admin 20:15, 11 August 2007 (EDT))
      • I would be really hesitant to organize this list any way other than alphabetically. I just don't want to see arguments about classifying powers that cross boundaries or fall into multiple categories. It'll be much easier to keep them in good ol' fashioned ABC order. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:29, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
        • My thought is that this list is simply super-long... I was indeed refering to splitting it into seperate articles like how we have 5 pages and a linking page for the graphic novel characters portal. First, there's the practical issue of the time it takes to load/edit the page. IMDb recently switched to a multi-page forum system because long threads were slowing down their servers. This is probably not currently an issue for the wiki; but at 58kbytes, fan powers is currently the third-longest article behind only the EH and Misc theories article (See Special:Longpages) so I thought it was worth mentioning.
Second, there's the issue of whether it's becoming too hard for users to determine if a similar power has already been listed. I do realize that there may be some debate about the organizing categories, but my opinion is that it'll be much easier to spot repeat powers if categorized. The EH and Misc theories articles don't really have this problem.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:19, 12 August 2007 (EDT)
  • I agree with Ryan. In a world of fiction, these powers are even "more" fictional, so there's no use in categorizing them if our actual abilities aren't categorized. As MJ would say, "ABC...easy as 1,2,3".--Bob 04:56, 12 August 2007 (EDT)
  • So I've started my own categorized portal (User:MiamiVolts/Portal:Powers) for the known powers. I figure we're going to need it or something like it by the end of Season 2.--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:41, 12 August 2007 (EDT)
  • I agree there - some of the powers when I went through them yesterday were duplicates of another power listed right above it. As for those sections, I think it would need to be as simple as possible, perhaps a list of powers that are personal (like Precognition or Rapid Cell Regeneration), effect others (like Healing or Persuasion) and effects material (like Telekinesis or Technopathy), otherwise we'd end up with more lists than we started with.--Moonkea 04:03, 12 August 2007 (EDT)

AlphaTOC

  • Nice work on incorporating the AlphaTOC, Level. I like the new look. Perhaps we can add a CatTOC too...--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2007 (EDT)
    • I didn't even see the discussion about it, I just thought I would try it. -Lөvөl 17:08, 13 August 2007 (EDT)

Listkinesis

Do you ever get the feeling that people are just going through a list of Greek prefixes, slapping "kinesis" on the end, and creating a power? :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:51, 29 September 2007 (EDT)

  • No, I've never thought that. . . (Admin 21:00, 29 September 2007 (EDT))
    • Touché. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:08, 29 September 2007 (EDT)
      • I can honestly say that I consider each and every "-kinesis" on this list to be completely laugh-worthy. The best lack all conviction sound needlessly highfalutin while the worst are full of passionate intensity abominable abuses against the Greek and Latin languages. And most would make exceedingly lame powers, particularly on a television show. To each his/her own, I suppose.--Hardvice (talk) 21:23, 29 September 2007 (EDT)
        • After that edit session I did I had a hatred for kinesis, but then I've added powers with names including "Accelerated Neuromuscular Facilitation" and "Integument Strengthening" which could be seen as equally laughable. Still, this article seems to have exploded in recent weeks. Perhaps its time to stamp down a merge some more... --Moonkea 14:53, 30 September 2007 (EDT)

Do you think we should have a page like this...

Dedicated for fan demonstrations of powers? Or maybe an extension to this page (if it's possible XD). I'm thinking of messing around with effects and replicating some powers, maybe even making some of the ones in this fan-power list. I did pyrokinesis but I could use work- I expect to do fire much better than the two videos on my youtube. If other people would be willing to do it, it'd be pretty cool. I'd say quality control on it though - videos or decent photos only. It'd be almost a Heroeswiki version of Zeroes.--Riddler 01:04, 21 October 2007 (EDT)

  • I suffer the effects of kinesokinesialkinesis every time I try to clean the typographical errors on this article. I'll take a picture next time.--Hardvice (talk) 01:17, 21 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Lol. Maybe videos only then? Eitherway, if I go through with it, I'll make it my userspace.--Riddler 01:48, 21 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I was actually just being a wiseass. That video is pretty darn cool. I think it could make another great fan creations article, or a subpage--if this article is acceptable, then there's no reason to confine an article on fan powers with better content to your userspace. I just wouldn't add anything to this page because, well, it's already long enough to break some browsers, to say nothing of the fact that the best way to improve this article as it stands would be to drag it out into the street and shoot it in the face.--Hardvice (talk) 02:17, 21 October 2007 (EDT)

Literacy Manipulation

  • I was very excited to see this power. It would be very useful for teachers, for example, to be able to make their pupils more literate. Or you could make Sylar illiterate so he wouldn't be able to read your name off the list.

    Then I read the definition. Boo!

    In any case, I think this was probably meant to be "Literary Manipulation", not "Literacy Manipulation".--Hardvice (talk) 01:30, 21 October 2007 (EDT)

With all due respect this is annoying...

I'm one of the people who would welcome this and more pages like this in the fan creation section of Heroes Wiki. However I've been led to believe we are not allowed to do stuff like this, so I was reluctantly adhering to that, and putting stuff like this which occurred to me over at my own userpage, which gets about as much traffic as an ant trail covered in Raid. I made this some time back, and would have liked to get feedback from other people, including their own additions and extrapolations and whatnot to make the list either really funny or really believable or whatever floated anyone's boat. I wanted to make this an actual page somewhere that people thought they could improve upon, but instead I made it and some other "user pages" that admittedly deserve even less attention cuz they weren't as funny or time has been unkind to them but I still think the Other List is funny. However, I lost interest in them cuz if I'm the only one who's gonna read them, what's the point? I don't understand why this page exists, and I can't make a fan creation page about Chandra's "other list" or other amusing ideas that suit my fancy, or other people's fun ideas either. I don't understand where the lines are drawn or why X is acceptable but Y is not? Was my idea just not funny enough? Perhaps if I'd gotten more input it woulda been funny enough.

In conclusion: this sucks. Thank you for your time. - ZachsMind 23:48, 23 October 2007 (EDT)

  • This is just an archive of the powers themselves, it's not made to be funny... though some jackasses ((Tomatosis)) have made some god awful powers. In my opinion, half of these powers would be removed and some standard would have to be made, but you can't really set a standard since you can't predict what powers will be made in Heroes. But remember, this page wasn't MADE to be funny.--Riddler 23:53, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
  • I haven't read you user pages, so I can't comment on them. However, as to this page, I really wish it had never made it past the user page stage. The quality is really, really bad--a lot of the powers are barely coherent, and the ones that are are mostly ridiculous (and I'm talking about the allegedly "serious" ones here). I really think this page reflects badly on the quality of the site as a whole -- it's bloated, hard to read, poorly written, and full of self-indulgent wish fulfillment wank with little to no consideration to a) how the powers we have seen actually work and b) what kind of other powers would fit well with the style of the show. As lists of random superpowers go, it's ok, I guess, but it's gone so far beyond having any relation to Heroes that I have no idea what purpose it's supposed to serve. So if the "this sucks" was aimed at this page, I couldn't agree with you more.--Hardvice (talk) 00:35, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
    • ....but ..it's funny! The Fan Powers page is funny, and fun, and other generally positive adjectives that don't come to mind at the moment. Why does the fan section have to hold to the same serious rules of the rest of the site? Here I'm arguing that we need MORE stuff like this in the fan section, and you guys are questioning the validity of this one??? As Greg Grunberg would say, "COME ON!!!!!" - ZachsMind 04:31, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
      • It's not funny, at least not on the whole. There are moments of humour buried in pages and pages of absolute crap.--Hardvice (talk) 23:28, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
        • I agree, I don't find this page humorous at all. And it's even worse that a normal search will return results from this page. Ugh. You make a good point, Hardvice, that it has increasingly less to do with Heroes, and is just a silly page about powers. It would be like a Fantasy Island wiki having a page about funny names for little people, or a Seinfeld wiki having a page about cool flavors for Snapple. I move that we delete the page. People can salvage what they want on their own userpages if they so desire. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:03, 25 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Well said Dave. I don't even bother looking at the diffs for edits to this page because quite frankly the page needs serious maintenance. I think the majority of them are so poorly worded because only the creator of the power knows what they're saying, but they're unable to explain it. I never liked it to begin with, and I still don't. I don't really know how to help the page since it doesn't really fall into anything organized like our other fan-created pages.--Bob (talk) 04:35, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
      • ...maybe it just needs to be reworked somehow. Re-realized. It's essentially a list of powers that fans would like to see on the show. Not necessarily powers that ever would be on the show. Maybe it just needs a prologue that prepares the reader for what they are about to experience. Maybe it needs a title more informative than "fan powers" that explains the purpose of the list. And maybe if we can better define what the purpose of this list is, we can better determine which powers belong on the list and which ones can be shuffled off. ...Why's the list here anyway? I think it's a fun list to scan through but I'm not sure if I understand how the list started. - ZachsMind 04:36, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Personally, and I've probably said this somewhere here before, I think we should head for a scientific/medical approach. If we can explain it as if it were in a medical textbook it should certainly be kept. If it has kinesis tacked onto the end, it needs a major rework, or else I vote for just one kinesis entry listing them all. I really am starting to hate that now... And as for the silly ones, some are certainly worthy of a place here, but perhaps could do with a rewrite of sorts. I dont know. If I have time later on this week I'll go through it again and see what can be done. I like this page and while it shouldn.t be too serious, it certainly should be readable and understandable, yes. --Moonkea 14:36, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

Ok, I believe we've hit our limit.

I mean, we're referencing High School Musical now.

"Dance-Routine Inducing

Dance-routine inducing is very odd. It is the psychic ability to randomly cause music to play out of nowhere and make any human or humanoid (even operational human-like constructs and animals) burst into a song-and-dance routine, more than likely coinciding with their current situation or circumstance (think High School Musical). No one can resist the corny but oddly-catchy music or contagiously memorable words of the song that us induced. The dance is usually ridiculously graceful (and in sync with the rhythm of the song), and serves for a great distraction, because the user is not affected by the noisome song, which lasts approximately 4 minutes long.

Limits: This ability is very useful, but only for the time it is played. It only lasts four minutes, and afterwards, if you have not escaped your danger, then the situation will resume where it left off, and then you're toast. "

We have to do something. --Riddler 22:22, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Actually, I like that one. :) If we do anything, I propose we get rid of some of the ridiculous -kinesis powers. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 22:24, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
  • We could just scrap the whole article. I know that would make me happy. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:47, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
  • I know I state this pretty much every chance I get, but I think the whole article is just awful, from soup to nuts. It's much better suited to the wiki on AE.org. I think it reflects badly on the quality of the site as a whole, even in the fan creations section. I make fun of it from time to time by adding even worse powers because I honestly believe that if we're going to have a terrible, bloated, tl;dr piece of garbage, it should at least be somewhat entertaining.--Hardvice (talk) 23:26, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I agree, but after looking at the discussion page, only a handful of people want to kill it, but there's been dozens of people who contribute to the article. So, I would suggest that if it will be deleted, at least add an AFD tag, and let people try to defend it.--Bob (talk) 03:41, 25 October 2007 (EDT)

Stop Whining and Kill the Page

Will you guys quit whining about how much you hate this page and just kill it? PARTY POOPERS! Why not just kill the entire Fan Section while you're at it? Apparently if it's not something officially sanctioned by NBC, Tim Kring, or Mark Warshaw, y'all wanna just disregard it. Why let the fans list powers they'd like to see on the show? We're not important. We're just the audience. (childishly sticks tongue out at everyone) - ZachsMind 03:38, 25 October 2007 (EDT)

  • I have no problem with the page, apart from the low quality. If the quality were improved, I'd think it was kind of pointless, but harmless. I just think it reflects badly on the quality of the other articles.--Hardvice (talk) 03:52, 25 October 2007 (EDT)

Stop everything and start to read the page

Okay, so I felt the need to a) pass the time and b) have a look at clearing this page up. First problem is as obvious as the fact that I'm looking at a computer screen and typing this.

Right, first of all, Ability Negation. Fair enough. Second entry, Abiotic Magnetism. Well, sounds an awful lot like Telekinesis, just reworded to not include telekinesis... Right below it, Absolute Magnetism. What's its first line? "Similar to Abiotic Magnetism and Telekinesis, Absolute Magnetism is the ability to draw anything to you."

I know people spend time on these entries, but surely, surely you'd check to see if your new power already exists in some form? Right? Please?

Right now, I'm taking notes as to what I'd do to this page; I guess I'll post a list on my blank user page if you're interested, but I'm sure if you've read this discussion page enough you'll know where I stand. Until then, if you do share a similar mind set to me in wanting to clear this page up, do speak. And yes, I know some of you want this page burned to a stump but hows about saying what is wrong with it in your eyes, then we could fix it for all of us.--Moonkea 18:23, 25 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Just cleaned up the A's. I deleted the magnetism ones you talked about, "Acellerated Cellular Regeneration", and ANF, aka muscle mimicry. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 18:36, 25 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Yes, exactly. So many of these powers are hung up on the minutiae of how the power works, when we don't even know how the canon powers work. That's one thing that's wrong with it, and the resulting duplication is another. We don't need eight versions of telekinesis and six versions of flight, when any one of them could be the same as the power we know and love. If the duplicates were eliminated, and the powers retooled to focus on the effects rather than the mechanisms, it would go a long way to improving the page. The second problem is just bad writing. A lot of the descriptions aren't very clear. They're prone to (mis-)using jargony technical language without stating clearly and concisely what the power does. The grammar and syntax of a lot of them would make an English teacher cry and commit suicide. I don't spend a lot of time reading this page because I personally find it lame and ridiculous, but when I was trying to watch the edits to it in Recent Changes I had to give up because all too frequently I wasn't able to parse what the editor meant in the slightest. So if killing it before it gets even more out of control is not an option, those are my suggestions: focus on the effects rather than the causes, get rid of the duplicates, and clean up and simplify the language. Oh, and get rid of all the preposterous "-kinesis" names. They're really awful, and they don't fit the Naming conventions. For example, had "gerokinesis" gotten the root "geront-" right, it wouldn't mean "age manipulation"--it would mean "moving old men".--Hardvice (talk) 18:45, 25 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I've just dumped a load of text on my userpage, my notes as it were, but it was of course written before/during the clean up of the A's, so I'll get on to that. Just a note on ANF was that quite a few powers could be removed because of being lesser versions of that which we've seen, and I may or may not have touched them - after two hours I simply cant remember, but all the text dump is on my page.--Moonkea 21:04, 25 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Vocifery

Vocifery or reality-bending is the ability to speak nearly anything into existence. The user of this ability can speak almost any being, occurrence or ability into or out of existence. This ability can manipulate the very bounds of space, time and probability. Limits: The only hitch is that no vocifer can ever speak death, devastation, destruction or defeat on any foe or subject, and you can't speak deification on yourself ,because that would defy reality, which would negate reality, thus obliterating all existence.

Just one question: What the HELL does this mean? anyone? anyone? Random guy 19:42, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

          • Ok after looking "vocifery" up, I found out, it is not even a word. Where did this come from? Who made this up? Random guy 19:57, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Can we also get rid of all of these paradox powers. They all make no sense like the ability to move something by stopping it Rayhond 23:27, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
    • That one was a tounge-in-cheek comment on the silliness of just adding -kinesis to a word. I put it in there, but if the page is being cleaned up somehow feel free to remove it. (Admin 23:45, 1 November 2007 (EDT))
  • OK, now I'm for deleting this page. There's now a minor edit war. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 23:28, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

The Current Hot Topics, aka State Your Case

Okay, now that there's a lot of activity now so its time for an explanation of my views towards some of it. Please comment, that's what we're here for. Maybe I'll sway you, maybe you'll sway me but here goes.

Imperceptibility: The ability to not be perceived, that is to be there, to exist, to simply be, but to not be perceived by anyone else. I was close to writing about trees falling the forest and making a sound - just because we aren't there to listen, doesn't mean the trees decide to mute themselves. There seems to be this view, and then the view where all of a sudden the user becomes intangible and almost non-existent. The fact that recording equipment still sees you enforces the fact that you are definately still there. There are hypnotists who can make people ignore the colour red, and so a red hammer smashing a vase is seen as a vase smashing on its own accord. The hammer never disintegrates, its just imperceivable to that persons vision, only with this ability you replace the red hammer.

Aero/Atmokinesis: Now, we know that the suffix -kinesis denotes movement. Aerokinesis is movement of air, atmokinesis is movement of steam. Atmosphere is the layer of gases around a sphere like own Earth, and Aerospace is that layer and a bit more of space as well. What we have are two names that are fine. But altering the movement of wind would be altering the movement of moving gases. The collective term for those gases is Air, aka the atmosphere. Thus, the movement and control of wind would be the movement and control of the atmosphere, which leads to wind, changes in the gases, effects on temperature, effects on weather, density of clouds and more. In my opinion, you can't control the wind without controlling the entire atmosphere. It'd be like waving your arms around to give yourself more of a breeze, which just isn't an ability.

Psychic Navigation: The way its worded does make me think of Clairvoyance, and there is a history of powers on this page with parts of existing powers or lesser powers (I put in Accelerated Neuromuscular Facilitation and episodes into the second series we get Adoptive Muscle Memory, deemed to close together and so ANF was removed. There was Accelerated Cellular Acceleration too, which was too close to Rapid Cell Regeneration, that was removed too). Basically, there are two options: Rewrite to properly differentiate between it and Clairvoyance, perhaps focusing on seeing visible trails of objects and people, or else deem it too close and therefore remove it. And I do think it can be rewritten, so if there are any ideas on that, speak up.

As I said, do engage me on this and at the very least we can work out either more accurate powers or finally settle on a version of existing powers instead of all this undoing. But having said that, this recent mass edit is making those important first steps to cleaning this page up.--Moonkea 21:47, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Can I put a screencap...

Of one of my abilities in here? It IS a fan power. =P I'll leave it up to you guys. --Riddler 23:11, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

  • And GRAH! I keep accidentally hitting the minor edit button. --Riddler 23:12, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Two options for this page

  • Due to the nature of this page it seems there are only two real long-term options. The problem is that there aren't any criteria we can really apply to entries on this page. Any two powers, despite how similar they sound, arguably can be two different distinct powers unless the text is identical. One contributor may have a slightly different idea about how the power works or what it does. It's not appropriate to delete or consolidate powers on this page as a result. So the options for this page essentially are:
    • Delete the page and let fan powers be created as individual user subpages. People can post whatever powers they want on their subpages and can define them however they'd like without interference.
    • Not delete or modify a power added by someone else (with the exception of spelling and grammar). Of course this opens the page up for abuse and will just make the quality of it suffer. Plus at that point it doesn't really serve a point as an article. A variant of this approach would be to attempt cleanups and consolidations from time to time, but to default towards inclusion when there's disagreement about inclusion of a power (perhaps unless it's clearly meant to be silly, but then that gets subjective again).
      • I'm a little bugged by the recent edit volleys, and even more bugged by the nature of the page itself. I don't like that searches for perfectly legitimate and innocent searches return results from this page. Keeping a fan creation that a person can concoct on the spot confined to the user namespace seems like a good idea. I wouldn't be opposed to transforming this page into a list/directory of those user pages. Plus, that way, people could feel free to add anything they wanted, expand on the limits, give examples from literature and other media, and even add pictures if they felt so inclined. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:48, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
        • I agree with that approach. That gives everyone infinite space to expostulate wildly to their heart's content, and keeps this page from becoming a)increasingly bloated and b)a war zone. Still, the names listed on this page will come up during a search. I don't suppose there's a way to mark an article/some content as excluded from a search? That would be ideal. Do we need to move Fan Creations to its own namespace? Probably not a bad idea, since the same applies to all fan creations articles. Once these are on user pages, this article could continue to exist as strictly a list with links to the individual pages.--Hardvice (talk) 00:56, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
          • Having a Fan Creations namespace is a great idea. But even if it's not, I'd much rather have just the names appear rather than all the text, too. Another completely different option is to have this page be a redirect to Category:Fan Powers, and then use that category on whatever user pages people make. Then the text isn't automatically searchable, the page wouldn't need updating every time somebody added a fan power, and it would be automatically alphabetized. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:27, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
            • I think we have a winner. We can even add a fan version of infobox power. We're actually giving people more content, even if it is slightly more (safely) separated from the in-show content.--Hardvice (talk) 01:30, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
              • Of course, if we also have a Fan Creations namespace, the individual powers don't even need to be on user pages. They can just be Fan Creation:Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosiskinesis or whatever.--Hardvice (talk) 01:33, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
                • I really like the category idea. I think the fan creations namespace would still cause the same conflicts we see here. Having them as user subpages makes it easier for each contributor of powers to have control over their own content. (Admin 01:35, 2 November 2007 (EDT))
                  • Ah right. Keep forgetting that bit -- I was excited at the prospect of exiling them to a leper colony giving them a space of their own. I'll get it started, then, by setting up User:Hardvice/Kinesokinesialkinesis ... which, come to think of it, won't be much fun once separated from the list.--Hardvice (talk) 01:42, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
                    • I still think we should have a FC ns at some point, even if the fan powers are in not part of the FC ns. But that's a discussion for another day....I suppose what we need to do now is alert everybody to start pillaging this page and planting their powers in their own user subpages. We will need a big ol' banner on this page (which gets a lot of hits), probably something on current events and/or Heroes Wiki:Community portal. An infobox would be good, with some logic to categorize it the page alphabetically by subpage name. And we might want to think about leaving messages on talk pages of the users who have contributed considerably to this page. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:43, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
                  • I definitely like the cat for user subpages, and the infobox for it I figured would be a by-product of that. I'm kind of interested to see how the users develop them individually, with pictures and such. Namespace is a bit much, but I like the user subpage. As for the current listing, should we archive it, and delete the main article (sort of what I did for the old timeline, as a reference tool)? --Bob (talk) 01:48, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
                    • I'd rather give everybody a little while before we really do anything with the page. However, I'd put a huge ol' banner at the top that tells people what's going on. I also think it'd be a good idea to add a button to MediaWiki:Newarticletext for user pages that detects a / in the pagename, and then give them a format to use (basically just to let them know that the infobox is available to them). I'm curious to see what people come up with. For instance, I love User:Riddler's page of his own creations. They're not exactly fan powers, but they certainly would fit in the category. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:05, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
                  • OK, I got the cat up and running so we can see what it will look like once it gets its freak on. Check out Category:Fan Powers.--Hardvice (talk) 01:55, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
                    • Third Option: Limit every power to one line of text. "Soandso is the ability to do whatever." If they cannot summarize it in one line, they can't put it here. Make the limits maximum 5 lines. Every normal power page we have names the power in one line.--Riddler 08:05, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
                    • Often they are in one line, but the explanation and examples takes up an entire paragraph. Personally, I think we need a set of agreed upon tick list type of system which would clean out untold numbers of powers and allow for more merging and accuracy. Of course, there are problems in who thinks what is acceptable and what isnt. The Joys of Wiki Editing... It it comes down to the removal of the page or a relinking to other places, so be it, but I firmly believe that if everything stops and we actually discuss where we want this page to go, how we want it for feel etc, we can get somewhere. Just look at my argument for Imperceptibility above and compare it with the version on the page. We need those clear targets, and if that fails a vote system. And if that fails, well you lot seem to be going somewhere so I'll see what happens there. But this situation CAN be saved... --Moonkea 08:51, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
  • The problem with this page is that every time someone adds a power, they go into an essay about what the power entails. We don't need that. We just need a brief descriptions. Take a look at my Omnilingualism, Enhanced Coordination, and Shapeshifting.--Riddler 08:54, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
    • True, but we also have to put an entire page dedicated to one power into one paragraph. Of course, the immediate argument to that is that we move each fan power to individual pages...--Moonkea 10:16, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
      • Yeah, that's one of the only really effective long-term solutions. People will always disagree on the format of the powers, the description, or whether certain powers need to be consolidated with others. Since it's all fan-created there's no way to say that one person's opinion on a power is any more or less valid than another's, so it has to be placed on user subpages where the user can reasonable assert more control over the content they add. (Admin 10:28, 2 November 2007 (EDT))
        • So can we start this before Monday? Maybe we can lock the page for edits, and put the banner at the top as suggested by Ryan. I think if we start this for the weekend, that would give most of the regular contributors time to get their stuff moved, and by the time Monday night/Tuesday come with all the new users, they'll know what they need to do.--Bob (talk) 16:55, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
          • I say leave this page with the one line summaries - leave full descriptions for user pages. We can link the name of the power to User:Whoever/Powers#Whateverthepoweris - If we delete this page, my "Tomatosis" and "Duplication" videos become useless. =[--Riddler 17:27, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
            • I don't want to delete the page, I want to turn it into a redirect to Category:Fan Powers. Then the links will be automatic and alphabetical. But converting it into a redirect will be a bit down the line. I'm not sure locking the page is necessary, especially if there's a big banner at the top explaining what to do. But if people ignore the banner and edit the page like there's no tomorrow, then a lock might be considered. I'd rather see people take the powers they want to keep (potentially all of them, if people so desire) and get creative on their user pages. Why not add images and videos and fun examples. We have some really creative people who contribute to this site and to this page, and I hate to see people stifled by trying to fit everything into a paragraph or two, sacrificing quality for space and format. I'm actually quite looking forward to see what people create when given a full page. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:37, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
            • You know that may just have swayed me. Put simply then, what do we/I the uninformed Wiki editors need to do to get single pages for their powers? I might be able to guess the rest from looking at already existing pages, but hey, I want to be sure.--Moonkea 19:23, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
              • Make a new page, User:Moonkea/Powers (Or whatever you want the slash to be, but I think each user should have at most one powers page, or else we'll end up causing MORE bandwidth waste by having multiple pages.)--Riddler 19:37, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
                • I'll see if I can make a "fan power" button for user pages. Unless Admin says otherwise, I don't think we're having any bandwidth problems, and I don't think it's a problem to have more than one fan power page. In fact, I believe even if we took every power on here and created a fully fleshed-out page, we'd still be fine. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:12, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
                  • No resource concerns, we've got plenty of everything. (Admin 20:20, 2 November 2007 (EDT))
                    • In that case, I'll take some spare time. Or money. Your choice. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:22, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
                      • My original idea was actually more along the lines of what Riddler's saying. Each user would have one powers article with all their powers on it. Either way seems ok to me. Separating into multiple articles means a lot more tiny articles, which isn't a big deal but seems a little wasteful. The advantage, as you said, is that the power names would automatically appear on the category. Part of me thinks that's nice, and part of me feels like it could cause some disagreement if I list something in the category and someone else feels it's a poor name for it. I had originally just expected interested parties to create that single powers page and that page is what would be listed in the category, but whatever approach people like is good. (Admin 20:20, 2 November 2007 (EDT))
                        • I don't really mind either way. If the pages catch on and people start creating a ton of them, we can certainly try to reign them in and ask people to consolidate them. I like pages like User:ZachsMind/Other for having a fun collection of silly powers, and I also like pages like Ability extension which could easily fit into the mainspace. However, I also think individual fan power pages (like User:Heroe/Insect control or User:Hardvice/Kinesokinesialkinesis) have their merit. We'll see how it develops, I suppose. Incidentally, I edited MediaWiki:newarticletext to include a button for fan powers in the User namespace. If anybody wants to change the layout template, go to template:newpage fanpower. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:38, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
              • So here's an idea for the banner. Any ideas to make it clearer?--Bob (talk) 21:54, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
To add a power:
1) Create a user subpage for your proposed fan power.
2) Use the New Fan power button on the new page, or use Fan power infobox to create the new power. This will automatically add Category:Fan Powers to your subpage.

Kinesis

I took the liberty of either renaming or redefining several powers that mistakenly used the suffix "kinesis" for things other than what it means, which is "movement". Usually I just converted the titles out of their Greek parts into English, using the word "manipulation". For power names that used the suffix for a power whose definition actually did involve moving something, I left it as is. For one power, atmokinesis, I moved the old definition to "weather control" and under the term "atmokinesis" put the more accurate definition of an ability to move an atmosphere from one planet to another. I hope nobody minds. My thinking is that if we ever want to get away from the misuse of the kinesis suffix in our main articles, then we shouldn't encourage that nomenclature even on this page.--E rowe 16:18, 7 November 2007 (EST)

One line, three lines.

We really need a standard for this page, and the clutter can die with a line limit. --

Example: Shapeshifting or animal morphing is the ability to change the physical appearance and attributes to any race or animal.

Limits: When changing forms, any clothes the user would be wearing will not change with the body, thus if one with this ability transforms into something bigger than their clothes, the clothes will most likely be destroyed.


Transubstantiation is the ability to change fluid matter (e.g., turn water into wine).

Limits: The user needs water for the transubstantiation to work. The user might also be able to transubstantiate water to wine and nothing else; however, it's possible for the user to be able to transubstantiate water into other forms of liquids (e.g. wine, liquid poison, fruit drinks, etc.). --

Short, sweet, and to the damned point. Every time someone adds a power to this page, they write two essays on the exact details of the power. Half of the REAL powers we have don't even have that much in their description! We don't need that much information. Can we PLEASE do something about this?--Riddler 21:15, 7 November 2007 (EST)

User:Shadowulf1 22:47, 28 December 2008 (EST) I'm wondering, why is this page still here? It's not exactly the best description of superhuman abilities, no one can agree with the abilities' names (hint hint, a little too snippy with the "kinesis" and "control" names, among other things, hint hint) and the others have already began coming up with abilities of their own. If they want a page to create a whole 'nother archive about superhuman powers, this is obviously not the place to do it. Either they should have their own pages, they should make pages of their own, they should make a page like this on here or a combination of the above given solutions. As for this page, I'm sure we've already come to the consensus that it should be gone, so (not to sound rude or impatient, but...) why is this page still here?

But before it is gone, I'm wondering if there is a way to prevent other pages from being edited like you protected this page?