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Talk:Phoenix mimicry/Archive 1

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Info Source

Where is the info coming from. I know the ability creator is on the wiki, but can we use information that they give us about the ability or are we restricted to what we see (or read about in the istory). --mc_hammark 12:29, 4 November 2009 (EST)

  • I think it should be restricted to what we see or read in the istory otherwise people could write whatever they want - Jenx222 | U / T / C 12:35, 4 November 2009 (EST)
    • Heroes survival is secondary source so I think we can use the information from that. --mc_hammark 12:39, 4 November 2009 (EST)
      • Ye, but I don't think we should go creating pages for all these crazy abilities when we haven't even seen them in action, and it's very doubtful that we will - Jenx222 | U / T / C 12:46, 4 November 2009 (EST)
        • Heroes: Survival is not a canon source. We can glean information from it, but it should be restricted to the notes (and the title of the page, as is necessary). But only the information from the iStory should be in the main body of the page. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:52, 4 November 2009 (EST)

WORST ABILITY EVER

I hate this iStory and it's ability to create terrible abilities! Come on, this is one of the most out-there powers ever! Honestly! -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 15:12, 4 November 2009 (EST)

  • I comeplety agree, i always hated Istory but you cant do this, its like 4 abilities 1 one abilty but the worst thing about it its that an freaking phoenix never existed --Yoshi n1 15:21, 4 November 2009 (EST)
    • Well, it's not really a terrible ability. I would love to have it over several other abilities, but I also don't like fan-made abilities that have several different abilities in one. And as Yoshi said, pheonix's don't exist. But i suppose its existance doesn't matter. --mc_hammark 15:41, 4 November 2009 (EST)
      • The iStory needs to pick abilities that actually make sense. -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 15:45, 4 November 2009 (EST)
        • Also giving the guy Ability Replication??? A little much dontcha think??? I liked how the abilities Peter got (empathic mimickry and ability replication) seemed to his own with no one else getting them as well.--WarGrowlmon18 16:50, 4 November 2009 (EST)
          • I dont think that, i think that the most people hate this ability because a phoenix doesn't really exist, so it actually isn't possible that human's evolve in that way.--Yoshi n1 17:27, 5 November 2009 (EST)
          • They should have named his ability something else, but that's what you get when fans pick... -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 16:52, 4 November 2009 (EST)
            • Ah, but the thing with empathic mimicry is, there is another person who has it, we viewers just didn't follow them. Remember Claude said to Peter "great an empath" or something like that, implying there are others with that ability. Oh, and in the istory, one of the brothers also says something about "you mimics" implying that he too knows other mimics. --mc_hammark 16:54, 4 November 2009 (EST)
              • Yeah I knew that, I don't care if someone else has the same ability, it's just that his ability replication is so much more different than Peter's. The five elements? WTF? That's how we end up with stupid abilities like this one... -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 16:57, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                • Empathic mimicry is a unique ability, very rarely/never seen. And people just want to copy it. I was never into the Istories myself and agree they should pick one's that make a bit more sense...or even better yet, have them more realistic to what abilities we have had in the episodes.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 16:58, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                  • I like the concept of Heroes Survival (I don't play it though) but the whole "Your character could end up in the show/graphic novels/iStory" is a really bad idea. People start making impossible, unrealistic, and most of the time pointless abilities. -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs
                    • Even when they don't, they copy real abilities, or just create a new ability that does the same thing as another (Dimension abilities). Illusion was a unique ability too. But now about four people have it due to the Istories. Sometimes I wish the I stories didn't exist. It gets complicated in my opinion. And just because who ever has 2000 points in the game doesn't mean they should get in. It's the writers decisions on what to put in the Heroes world, not the fans amount points in a game. Hate to sound a bit cruel if I do, but it just doesn't sound right to me.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:09, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                      • First i thought like, ok i dont like Istory but who cares, but now they are crossing a line.--Yoshi n1 17:11, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                        • Actually Catalyst, the two guys with illusion are not fan created. Plus, it is unrealistic to assume that abilities can be unique to one person. Also, the amount of points doesn't really factor into who is choosen much from what I have seen. But, while I do enjoy the iStories (mostly), they really do need to pick people more carefully and make sure the abilities make sense. Phoenix Mimicry is crossing the line, and I think it needs to be deleted and moved into pyrokinesis.--Ratclaws 17:29, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                          • Ok, my mistake there :/ , And I thought points mattered, as I see the highest "point-ed" people there have pages here. And yes, it sounds good to just have it be Pyrokinesis.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:32, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                            • I think they go though the top 100 or something. Also Dorph or Dolph or whatever his name is needs to be removed from ability replacation and given something else. His version violates what we really know about that ability.-Ratclaws 17:44, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                              • On his character page it says claircognizence or something like that as his original ability.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:45, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                                • Lol, if we are going to give Draph an other page for his abilty replication then why dont you do Knox's abilty remove from enhanced strenght too. (Im not a big fan that Knox's abilty still ist changed into feared strenght..)--Yoshi n1 17:49, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                                  • Claircognizance has already been made. Sadly it appears that Draph has more than one ability. Grrrr.... I do not like this at all. Lets just say he has that friggen mouthfull of a power, and he can absorb abilites though it, switch Phoenix mimicry to pyrokinsis (cause I don't remember him rising from the ashes like a phoenix, do any of you?), and forget he ever existed.--Ratclaws 17:56, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                                    • Just be glad not all abilities listed in his page were made into articles. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:57, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                                      • Lol why dont we just boycot him and delete him so all the creators know that this REALLLLY IS BAD i mean i though Maya was bad but she maked sense, but this is just bullshit..--Yoshi n1 18:13, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                                        • Because he did appear in the Istory and has to have a page.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:59, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                                          • Yeah, but lets at least stop him from infecting other pages, and making total BS ones. Like Phoenix mimicry. All we saw was him create fire, so lets get rid of this page and move it to pryokinsis.--Ratclaws 18:06, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                                            • Yeah lets do that, Because this way we are helping to screw heroes up.--Yoshi n1 18:13, 4 November 2009 (EST)

So I guess we start a consensus to see who is in favor of the move to pyrokinesis?--Catalyst · Talk · HL 18:19, 4 November 2009 (EST)

  • Seconded.--Ratclaws 18:23, 4 November 2009 (EST)
    • I agree with a consensus, but I also think we need a higher diplomatic power here, and by higher diplomatic power, I mean Ryan. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:24, 4 November 2009 (EST)
      • That seems right.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 18:25, 4 November 2009 (EST)
        • I vote for moving it to pyrokinesis--Yoshi n1 18:27, 4 November 2009 (EST)
          • I agree-- By Danko CH 19:26, 4 November 2009 (EST)
            • But his fire power, as much as I hate it, is listed on his HSG page as Phoenix Mimicry. I think we have to keep it. -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 20:25, 4 November 2009 (EST)
              • Right. If it's explicitly listed as a separate ability (which is it is), then it should not be combined with a previously existing ability. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:52, 4 November 2009 (EST)
                • I say we put it alongside the other BS iStory powers without images, they should stay categorizes but not at the same level pyrokinesis and crumpling are. I think if it hasn't been seen in a graphic novel or episode, the ability is unseen.--Piemanmoo 01:01, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                  • We do have that. There are seen, unseen, not demonstrated. Claircognizance was unseen. Phoenix Mimicry was seen in the picture.
                    • It wasn't really seen, just the pyrokinesis part.--Yoshi n1 11:13, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                      • True, but it was supposed to correspond to Phoenix Mimicry that was in HS. The reason Draph could make flames is because of PM, meaning, it was an example of PM. Therefore, because it was listed as a separate ability, it is reasonable to have a separate page. Moreover, i would like to restate that i am willing to make changes if this continues to be a problem. I will change my HSG profile to say pyrokinesis, then it would match up to what you guys think is correspondent to the iStory.Draphoenix 11:39, 5 November 2009 (EST)

Like Power absorbtion it's too powerful, even empathic mimicry, IA, space and time manipulation and rapid cell regeneration have limits and this 1 has none.[50000JH 15:25, 6 November 2009 (EST)]

The Creator's interpretation

This is Draphoenix, the apparent terrible person who made Draph. Here are my thoughts.

1) If you change it to Pyrokinesis, thats...fine. If its that terrible of an ability, then change it. But here is the thing about combining abilities into one new ability. Look at Telepathy, originally that is to read people's thoughts. But then, Parkman got to implant illusions into people's mind. If your argument is held, then you must also condemn Parkman for having illusion and hearing thoughts, memory erasing, and even drawing the future. 2) I heard someone say that there is no such thing as a phoenix. And people who can fly exist? Come on, its fantasy people. And look towards X-men, Jean Grey turns into "The Phoenix." Just because it doesn't exist, doesn't mean it cannot be used.


3) Granted it was derived from Survival, the writers still chose Draph, DEAL WITH IT. If they thought he was overpowered or anything, they could have said so. After all, they contacted me THREE weeks before publication. That would have been enough time for me to change it to something "more reasonable."

4) Remember Claude said to Peter "great an empath" or something like that, implying there are others with that ability. Oh, and in the istory, one of the brothers also says something about "you mimics" implying that he too knows other mimics. —mc_hammark

Great Point

5) Moreover, differences in ability are irrelevant. As said before by someone, Knox and Niki had TOTALLY different enhanced strengths, just like Ando and Hawkins has radically different Ability Supercharging.

6) If it pleases the masses, turn it to pyrokinesis. But Ability Replication must stay. It is central to the story Draph had. And if you take away that, you take away one of the reasons the writers might have brought him in.

  • My vote changed. You had some good points, better than the opposing arguments. Leave it as is.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 20:33, 4 November 2009 (EST)
    • While I'm not a huge fan of this ability, it has been named in the iStory, meaning that it is now canon. Changing it would be going against canon, and we don't want to do that. I think it needs to stay the same. -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 20:34, 4 November 2009 (EST)
      • Thank you for hearing me out. I was a debater so I have that effect, lol. But I would like to hear some opposing arguments. I had NO idea that this would be that big of a problem. I do think the PM/Pyrokinesis is still an interesting debate.
        • I'm sorry for jumping on you like that... :/ -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 20:44, 4 November 2009 (EST)
          • No problem. I understand all angry feelings and unease. But I would like to point out something from the last crossover character's ability "In addition to extending the skeletal structure, this ability also allows for advanced healing powers, by fluctuating canals through his skeletal strucutre, and transmiting specific mixes of spinal fluid and stem cells to enact this it." It was ok for him to have this advanced healing because it was confirmed through Survival. However, this aspect of the ability was not in istory, but still should be considered canon because it is part of the ability. But I do feel all remaining descent MUST be heard so whatever decision is made, all issues will have been handled.
            • Sounds good. I just wanted to say I was sorry too. I never thought you were terrible or thought your character sucked (I actually think your character's history is pretty cool). The power is what got to me, but really, I don't care anymore. I honestly think it can stay now after reading your side (After reading I had a feeling you did some debating :) lol).--Catalyst · Talk · HL 20:55, 4 November 2009 (EST)
  • I'm glad the creator could weigh in, and I'm also glad you didn't get offended that many people were freaking out at seeing all these new pages created out of the blue. You have to admit though, your power is quite..unconventional. Not that that's a bad thing but we're used to abilities doing one refined thing, yours does many different things in ways that aren't exactly related. Although if you think about it, so does Mohinder's original ability and of course Sylar's abilities to somehow obtain abilities just by understanding them and having 3 PhD's in genetics. Seems like Draph lucked out in the Ability Replication department though. All in all I would suggest you police the articles that you influenced to make sure everything is in line and makes sense for non iStory readers. Thanks. -Barbedknives (talk)21:09, 4 November 2009 (EST)
    • Well, I only added three pages total (Phoenix Mimicry, Claircognizance, and Draph) so I don't see how i was making a lot of new pages. And I was told that Heroes Wiki congratulated me on the crossover but they still wanted me to add a Character page. And because other crossover's had ability pages, I figured i would help you guys out and work out the basics for the two other pages. And I agree about the policing. I have already seen many changes made to what i did. Other people have added Survival information to regular pages, and I try to cut or delete all that doesn't apply. My criterion for this is whatever happened in istory is left and anything that Survival might help clarify, I add it with a grain of salt.
      • Apologies. You have defended this ability well. We should have waited for you to clarify before jumping all over this.--Ratclaws 21:25, 4 November 2009 (EST)
        • It's ok, I would have felt the same if I were in your position. Plus, Draph has an complicated and coherent backstory that has been drastically cut to conform and correspond to the istory. It's understandable to question where the line is. But I would still like to ask if Yoshi or anyone still has problems. Their opinions are just as valid as mine.
          • I'm sorry creator, I know you made this ability and it being chosen for semi-canon status must be a big deal for you. But let's be honest, this power is too Mary-Sue to be appriciated. I respect what you put into this power, but the end result is just not something that most people can take seriously. And just because the world of Heroes has people that can fly and read minds, that doesn't mean that there are no ideas that are too out-there. There are, and this is one of them. I strongly suggest that this is moved to pyrokinesis.--Piemanmoo 01:04, 5 November 2009 (EST)
            • I don't see any reason we can't have this if we can have spider mimicry. Especially since the HSG profile has identified this ability as a different ability from pyrokinesis. --Radicell 07:01, 5 November 2009 (EST)
              • I understand how the effects relate themselves in the ability, but using spider mimicry wouldn't be a very good defense. Spiders are actual beings, phoenixes are mythological beings. That's where most of my "irk" for this ability comes. As far as we've seen in the Heroes universe, phoenixes aren't supposed to exist. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:09, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                • Reply point 2: I sad that phoenix's didn't exist, and its true and yes i know that its fantasy but it doesn't fit in because there is no such thing as some crazy animal on heroes, its all about that humans are evolving.--Yoshi n1 11:16, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                  • Good Point. But, isn't possible that there was this one dude who had pryokinesis, flight, etc. wrapped up in one ability. Its not that he his turning into a phoenix animal, but the ability to have traits similar to a phoenix. As written, "Phoenix mimicry is the ability to take on the characteristics of a phoenix." Not become a phoenix, just the traits of one. Plus, abilities evolve. Freezing does not lead to water mimicry. Maybe water generation or manipulation, but not mimicry. Draphoenix 11:34, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                    • I dont like the ability and Draph but i got respect for the interpretation so i will give it an another chance.--Yoshi n1 11:45, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                      • What's wrong with Draph? Granted, Phoenix Mimicry is slightly out there, but the character should be sound. Unless you object to crossovers.Draphoenix 15:00, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                        • To be honest, i never really checked out Draph, but i just thought it was bad becuase of the Phoenix Mimicry and the Ability replication. But now i checked out the CH and i must say it is good :) --Yoshi n1 15:10, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                          • Thank you for giving him a second chance. People got all upset about his "power" but it was his powers that pained him so much and made his life miserable, not making him overpowered like thought. Draph is the summation of the bonds he has made and lost (one of the reasons his formal last name is Bond). He felt cursed by his power and promised that he would not use the ability that he felt he didn't deserve. But even from the beginning, he compromised on his vow because of the bond he shared with his grandmother. He used his Ability Replication to honor her. He tried to use his gift to save the world but ended up losing his friend/crush. He was damned either way. Be given an unjust power or be unable to save his love (Similar to Hiro, master of time and space but unable to save his mary jane, he loses his powers, gets her, loses her again, gets his control of his powers back). More bonds come into play when Phoenix Mimicry was originally held by his mentor, the person who saved him. Telepathy...Sophia. Its also a story of self-affirmation. He eventually learned to accept himself and said yes to life. (which also happens to relate back to Nietzsche) Finally, Phoenix Mimicry and Draph (short for dragon PHOENIX) are allusions to the process of being reborn. Draph embodies his g-ma through his ability, keeping her spirit alive. Draph dies a little inside when he loses Maria, but is reborn a better, stronger person. This eternal return is once again a Nietzschean concept. So I was hurt a little when people immediately trashed Phoenix Ability and Ability Replication without talking to me or actually reading his story and trying to make the literary connection to what I was trying to convey. Furthermore, his story is loosely based on me and my past, the model for the istory character was based of my likeness. Finally, Prof Senna X Bond is an anagram for my real name. Draphoenix 15:36, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                            • The CH is really nice. --Yoshi n1 15:40, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                              • The reason people disliked this character at first is because he had ability replication, meaning we have another multi-ability character, and because of phoenix mimicry, which is kinda "out there", not really fitting with previously established ideas. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:21, 5 November 2009 (EST)

Cool It

Regardless of your opinion on the matter, the facts are this character and his abilities were selected for the iStory competition and are therefore part of the Heroes universe in the same way that the graphic novel characters and abilities are. Just because I'm not particularly fond of Emma has no bearing on the validity of her articles being made. The same goes for Draph, his backstory, and his abilities. This bickering is quite pointless. -Barbedknives (talk)16:57, 5 November 2009 (EST)

  • It kinda already has. People have apologized and all. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:00, 5 November 2009 (EST)
    • But without restarting anything, you've gotta admit this is a shocking ability-- By Danko CH 17:01, 5 November 2009 (EST)
      • No, electric manipulation is a shocking ability. This is more like an ability that causes die-hard fanboys to burn with rage. -Barbedknives (talk)17:08, 5 November 2009 (EST)
        • lol, I'll rephrase that, this is an awful ability.-- By Danko CH 17:10, 5 November 2009 (EST)
        • loooool - Jenx222 | U / T / C 17:05, 5 November 2009 (EST)
          • You agree Jenx222?-- By Danko CH 17:08, 5 November 2009 (EST)
            • Lol it looks like this is restarting, My oppinion: I really like Draph's CH, im really not a big fan of Phoenix mimicry and that Draph has Ability replication, but im done with this whole thing and i suggest you guys do the same.--Yoshi n1 17:11, 5 November 2009 (EST)
            • No comment, I don't want this thing to blow out of control again, lol - Jenx222 | U / T / C 17:13, 5 November 2009 (EST)
              • Well are we moving it to pyrokinesis (personally its embarassing to have an ability of a fantasy creature)-- By Danko CH 17:16, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                • Yeah me too actually..--Yoshi n1 17:17, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                  • Here we go again, lol - Jenx222 | U / T / C 17:19, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                    • Yeah lol--Yoshi n1 17:24, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                      • I'm not a big fan, but we are not moving it to pyrokinesis. It was in the Istory. I think this discussion is over. Most of us if not all have apologized and have agreed it not be moved as it is canon now.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:25, 5 November 2009 (EST)
          • Should we remove the name change then?-- By Danko CH 17:36, 5 November 2009 (EST)

this ability is not that bad

for me i don't hate this ability, i actually quite like it. heroes is all about evolution and there are many ability similar to pyrokinesis but they are not eg heating and fire breathing, i have been an x-men fan and hope heroes won't kill all the potentials--Zoga78 17:18, 5 November 2009 (EST)

  • I too like X-men but I have to disagree about the ability, its a collection of powers from a fantasy creature, which range from pyrokinesis to healing, in my opinion its ridiculous.-- By Danko CH 17:21, 5 November 2009 (EST)
    • I also like X-men but X-men and heroes is pritty different.--Yoshi n1 17:22, 5 November 2009 (EST)
      • Yeah worse abilities for a start, I mean whats next, elf mimicry?-- By Danko CH 17:25, 5 November 2009 (EST)
        • Lol i think that Phoenix mimicry is actually worser that elf mimicry.--Yoshi n1 17:28, 5 November 2009 (EST)

I Think the problem most fans have

Is that this ability allows the user to have several abilities in one, which many see as not fair. --mc_hammark 17:24, 5 November 2009 (EST)

  • The range as well, healing and pyrokinesis-- By Danko CH 17:25, 5 November 2009 (EST)
    • Yeah that's what I meant. Don't forget flight and regeneration from the ashes. --mc_hammark 17:26, 5 November 2009 (EST)
      • I think that the reason is why so much people hate this ability cause a phoenix doens't really exist.
        • We just had a huge discussion over why people hate it. There is no reason to say everything twice. Like I said above, I think this discussion is over as it is somewhat canon now, as it was in the Istory.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:31, 5 November 2009 (EST)
          • It exists as myth. What people were really fussed about is that the ability lacks the same profile as other abilities. Heroes abilities are very linked to science fiction, this one deals more with fantasy. Fantasy related abilities are not that bad if they're not too fantasy oriented, we have mediumship and aura absorption. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:32, 5 November 2009 (EST)
            • That doesn't mean that we can't talk about it.--Yoshi n1 17:32, 5 November 2009 (EST)
              • Just because phoenixs don't exist doesn't have anything to do with it. Although the phoenix is fiction, it is a term we know and describes the ability well. Like If I grew wings and tallons on my hands, and hooves on my feet, I would call it Hippogriff mimicry. --mc_hammark 17:33, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                • lol, what about Basilisk mimicry?-- By Danko CH 17:34, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                  • Like someone said, we don't need to keep discussing this. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:35, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                    • Lol, this kind of talk actually gives the ability what it deserves..--Yoshi n1 17:36, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                      • There is nothing to discuss anymore. It is canon now. The writers for the Istory chose it. We can't do anything about it. It is now in the Heroes universe and has to stay because the writers decided it.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:37, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                        • Lets all write in and complain, lol-- By Danko CH 17:41, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                          • Yeah so they know that they should't do anything like this ever again--Yoshi n1 17:44, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                            • To prevent elf mimicry from ever becoming an ability-- By Danko CH 17:45, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                              • I think that the problems fans are having with iStory abilities, besides they being overpowered (I'm sorry, but Phoenix mimicry manages to be more Mary Sueish than Peter with empathic mimicry), is the fact that the iStory is doing the opposite what it should be. All additional content, such as the Evolutions websites or the graphic novels, were always supposed to expand upon the original canon of the Heroes episodes. The problem is that phoenix mimicry and other things like the dimensional abilities (and even spider mimicry, which was from a GN) are so completely disconnected from the episodes...that is, you would never, ever expected these abilities to appear in episodes (at least the way they were presented) because they would alienate the audience (since, yes, phoenixes don't exist). In this way, the iStory is creating a separate Heroes universe; it's not really expanding the original canon, but actually separating it. That's what I think is upsetting people, and I completely agree.--Referos 17:45, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                                • Good point--Yoshi n1 17:48, 5 November 2009 (EST)
                                  • Yeah I agree and hope this is the last fantasy ability, well put-- By Danko CH 17:51, 5 November 2009 (EST)
  • Dang it all, I'm tired of all this bickering. If people cannot get past the literary affect Phoenix Mimicry was supposed to have, then change it to Pyrokinesis. If a consensus is made and people are still acting like babies about this, then I will CHANGE my HSG profile to accommodate istory and your (ir)rational demands. I will CHANGE Phoenix Mimicry to (blue) pyrokinesis, making it fully semi-canon. I personally don't care at this point. Granted, keep in mind RGS enjoyed my character for who he was and that's why he was in the story. Thank you all, for the most part, ruining my experience of canonizing (or semi-canonizing) a character based on my life. Draphoenix 18:52, 5 November 2009 (EST) (EDIT) Also, as for a combination of powers, Matt Parkman has reading thoughts, illusion, memory retrieval, memory erasing, and precognition. - Pretty gosh darn mary sue.
    • But all of the effects of his ability actually make sense with the ability. All of those stem from pushing and pulling thoughts. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:10, 5 November 2009 (EST)
    • Lol, jeez, we're only conveying are opinions about an fantasy ability, not aiming to ruin your experience. We're entitled to our opinions about the ability and sorry if that hurts you, but we're not having a go at you and making (ir)rational demands, we know PM won't be changed.-- By Danko CH 19:00, 5 November 2009 (EST)
  • Are you high? Look at telepathy: illusion, persuasion, mental manipulation, mind/body control, mind transferral, precognition. Seems pretty 'unfair' for a single ability as well. Do you recall Mohinder's ability? Enhanced strength, increased agility and senses, ability to scale walls and flat surfaces and jump high. All on one ability. Insect, phoenix, whatever. The point is we've seen many abilities with more than one effect before. If it bothers you so much, think about the arguments we've had over whether Sylar's abilities count as one for the purposes of replication. Assuming they do, the original holder of phoenix mimicry could have simply absorbed pyrokinesis, flight, and resurrection from others using one ability such as EM or IA. Then when the ability was replicated all of those were transferred. It's all open to interpretation. -Barbedknives (talk)19:26, 5 November 2009 (EST)
    • I think if you were to change it to pyrokinesis, it would make a lot of people happy. I'm sorry your ability got so poorly recpeted, but I guess them's the breaks. It is interesting, and you could always say that Draph simply had the same ability mimicry as Peter and the powers he had absored so far give him phoneix-like traits. If he absored flight, healing, pyrokinesis, ect all seperately, I think that would do wonders for your character and story. Remember, a character with too many powers make them a Mary-Sue and thus uninteresting. Anyone can come up with Edward Naruto Sonichu, who has the power to mimic vampires, project enegy, run super fast, and control electricity. But that sounds retarded simply because they've got too much going for them. It's also why Peter and Hiro spend most of the series either losing their powers and not having full control over them, because being to powerful leads to uninteresting stories. I know you are a good fan-fiction writer, and I can totaly respect that. I just think you would be much happier with your work (as well as many people here) if you were to follow more towards a realistic (in terms of the Heroes universe) character. Again, gratz on making it to canon status.--Piemanmoo 01:44, 6 November 2009 (EST)
    • Lol why do i have the feeling that barbedknifes is Drahphoenix himself with an different account?:P, but telepathy is different.--Yoshi n1 01:47, 6 November 2009 (EST)
      • That is kind of a big assumption. Unless it was really obvious (which its not), there is no way to tell.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 01:51, 6 November 2009 (EST)
      • Barbedknives knows that "effect" is a noun and "affect" is a verb. Draph does not. --Cosmic AC 19:56, 15 December 2009 (EST)
  • I seem to be late to the party, but I do have a problem with this ability - and not because it's "overpowered." It really is the range - and how little sense this particular combination of abilities actually makes. Mohinder's power had a very obvious theme, and the "range" of his powers is explained by the way his "mutation" proceeded unchecked (without the catalyst - which I argue would be more correctly labeled "anticatalyst" since it seems to prevent the Formula from doing too much). Parkman's powers are restricted to the mental realm. Even in X-Men, which features powers far more outlandish than those in Heroes canon (ability to transform into a lynx at will, for instance), it's at least clear that each character's individual set of powers stems from a single "base" ability. Wolverine has claws - because of an experiment that abused his ability to heal. Nightcrawler's basic ability is that of teleportation - his tail, fur, etc. are because his father is Mephisto, and his acrobatic abilities are merely from his past as a circus performer. Psylocke and Emma Frost - sorry, it's too complicated. And Jean Grey - who would become "The Phoenix" - has the power to manipulate matter and energy, which ends up being so ridiculously powerful that she can create and control nuclear blasts, fly, heal, and resurrect herself (by transferring her consciousness elsewhere just before she dies, then manipulating matter to form herself a new body). "Phoenix Mimicry" is not Jean Grey's power; if it was, that would be annoying in a very different way. As it is, it's a set of completely unrelated (outside Harry Potter) powers with no basis for coexistence.

Although "Phoenix Mimicry" is my biggest complaint, the way the character in general is depicted as Jesus With Angst (a dead giveaway that this dude is Sue, even without being given exactly the same nickname) is just silly. This "claircognizance" is, practically speaking, omniscience. It makes zero sense for someone without power absorption to absorb power absorption; it would have been much better if you'd simply said he was born with power absorption and absorbed claircognizance from his twin. This is Heroes, not The Dark Half, and Draph is not Stephen King. --Cosmic AC 19:56, 15 December 2009 (EST)

Very popular ability

Has anyone noticed this seems to be the most talked about ability on the wiki at the moment, incredible!, lol - Jenx222 | U / T / C 19:12, 5 November 2009 (EST)

well this ability is interesting, yes but too x-manish. as remember heroes it full of one ability persons but this page is soo popular that there are more posts on this unlike other abilities e.g imprinting ect--Zoga78 00:43, 6 November 2009 (EST)

Really losing faith in the Heroes sub-world.

  • First Spider mimicry, which is horrendous on it's own, now this... it's just too much. No offense to those who helped write the ability and the guy who created it, but it's just too outlandish for the Heroes world. It's not that he's too powerful, it's that it doesn't make sense in any context of the show. Rising from ashes? Just give him regeneration. More than one ability? Call it "Mimicry" and end it at that. You should be welcome to your fan-abilities, but seriously a limit should be drawn. I really feel like I'm going to have to stick to just the show soon enough, and if any of this stuff crosses over onto the show it'll really hurt it for me. --Riddler 02:15, 6 November 2009 (EST)
    • I agree. Not to start the discussion up again, as there is nothing to discuss, but if this is the trend of new abilities these days, in my opinion it moves in the wrong direction. Draph is far more powerful then any other character on the show with the exception of Sylar. Looking at his character, he effectively has nine abilities- Claircogniance (spelling's off, I apologise), Ability Replication, five abilities branching off from that, and one of those is basically three (regeneration, albeit in a limited form, flight, and pyrokinesis). PM is what irks me most about his because it appears to be little more then an excuse to give Draph even more powers. It's not the same situation as telepathy, for example, because telepathy is one ability that can create several related phenomena (persuasion, illusion, etc). PM, on the other hand, deals with multiple powers that, in themselves, have no link whatsoever. A character with this ability alone is already stronger then almost all the characters on the show, and the fact that the writers not only acknowledged it, but did so as part of a character who was already stronger then the rest without it is what makes me lose some faith in them. Swm 07:54, 22 November 2009 (EST)
    • Actually, he's already far more powerful than Sylar. He's omniscient, has telekinesis, and is immortal. He can chop Sylar to bits. From Neptune. He can make flakes of dust move around in front of Ando's face to write a detailed description in eighteen different languages of what the weather on Trantor will be like in six million years today. Can this possibly get any more ridiculous? --Cosmic AC 20:04, 15 December 2009 (EST)

You know what?

This is my favorite page lol. Whose else? Green.gif AltesUTC CH

  • Yeah!!!!, lol - Jenx222 | U / T / C 05:26, 6 November 2009 (EST)
    • I have made the executive decision to change my HSG profile, to be consistent with iStory, and to please the masses. Sorry for distracting you and creating a character that is too outlandish. However, upon this change, I feel all hate directed towards me and Draph will be shifted to his ability replication, so bring it on. Draphoenix 11:23, 6 November 2009 (EST)
      • I have no problem with Draph having Ability Replication. It is unreasonable to assume that just because a ability is powerful, it is also rare.--Ratclaws 12:27, 6 November 2009 (EST)
        • Is a really good ability no matter what anyone says. Some people may not like it, but I favour it over many abilities. I used to think that having pyrokinesis would be cool, but that along with the other abilities... would just be awesome. And Draphoenix, if there are any people hatin' on you out there, I'll be on your side. --mc_hammark 15:43, 6 November 2009 (EST)
      • You and Draph? You make it sound like an attack on your character is an attack on you. While simultaneously trying to convince us that your character isn't you. Wut? --Cosmic AC 20:06, 15 December 2009 (EST)

Why are you being so horrible?!

This is not Draphoenix, this is Jan. And I know that I'll most probably get a lot of criticism for writing this, however I feel this is the right thing to do, so I'm writing this.

Why on earth, you people, are you being so harsh, being sooo judgmental, being so critical suddenly. If you don't like something, you can simply say "I didn't like it much" and can go on as "me neither" etc... But aren't you aware that when you say "I hate it" than "I totally hate it" "it's the worst" "oegghh" etc... then you aren't actually doing anything else than hurting the person (Draphoenix, in this case) who created, who imagined and who composed the story. You're being nothing but childish. The real purpose of criticising someone is to correct or improve. Your comments doesn't serve either. It only serves for belittling and discouraging. I am not particularly referring to anyone or any sentence here but the general negatively tended air on this page. Please be more mature and speak like mature people. Even if you're a child then consider one thing - not to hurt others' feelings.

In the case of the ability. I acknowledge that it's not an ability with a very realistic base. However there are many more phantastic abilities, and some of them seem really absurd, like Spider mimicry.

Just imagine, if, instead of Emma, they would introduce us a boy, trying to realise who he is and suddenly and gradually discovering different abilities, which actually turns out to be one ability, related to each other in a sense that it actually represents that person's identity (phoenix genes may be). In Smallville season 1, Clark Kent, finds out that he's from another planet, he already knows that he has super strength and enhanced speed, then he learns he has x-ray eyes, then.. he can shoot fire from his eyes and more... What we see in there at the end is that, all these powers come from the sun and they are related to who he is, it's about who he is. I know it's not the same but I just wanted to give you some perspective. Please don't be so rude and before writing something try also to think from some other points of view too.

One word to Dracophoenix,

Draph, please don't change the name of your ability to pyrokinesis or something else. I think that phoenixes are very beautiful creatures and having the ability of Phoenix Mimicry for me is another way of being special, it is being like the son of a phoenix. Don't mind what some kids tell you because phoenix mimicry is a beautiful power I think. Though my feelings are neutral about this ability from the point of view of the Heroes Universe, it's a hundred times better than spider mimicry and at least 10 times better than Alejandro's ability and many more. So, please don't get offended and discouraged. Do what you think is correct to do. Don't try to please the masses as one can never actually please the masses (some sociologic irony here). I insist to you to keep phoenix mimicry and I'm sure RGS thinks the same way.

Lastly everyone, please don't respond to this if you don't understand thoroughly as I don't wanna cause a huge discussions full of nastiness in it. If it's the case, you'll be all discussing it by yourselves, I'll be out.

Thank you

--Janrodrigo 11:53, 7 November 2009 (EST)

  • Thank you, Janrodrigo. That was exactly what I was thinking. I actually don't think Phoenix Mimicry is that bad! It's better than Spider mimicry at least! I hope Draphoenix reads this post and changes it back from Pyrokinesis, as I feel this power is special and should remain completely seperate from any other powers.--Hiroman 13:02, 7 November 2009 (EST)
    • Im not a big fan of Spider mimicry but its better then Phoenix Mimicry i think cause spider's actualy does exist, but i dont think that we are so horrible, its just that so much people dont like the ability and that so much people are talking about it that is seems harsh, atleast thats what i think.--Yoshi n1 13:48, 7 November 2009 (EST)
      • I understand completely Jan. I know I have said Phoenix mimicry isn't a favorite of mine, but I think it is a lot better than Spider mimicry. Though spiders exist, can you imagine a person in Heroes with eight legs in his back? With Phoenix mimicry, we at least have a few of our Heroes abilities such as pyrokinesis and healing. So it is not totally horrible as everyone has been saying. So I agree with Janrodrigo and Hiroman. Stop criticizing this. If someone keeps criticizing this, they will most likely to just repeat what others say, and there is no point in that.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 16:10, 7 November 2009 (EST)
        • Thank you, Hiroman and Catalyst. By the way Yoshi, don't think that the only ability from a fictional creature is this. Is there any creature in this world, who can shoot fire from their mouth? Just imagine that prior to volume 5, a survival player would happen to create such an ability (shooting fire from his/her mouth) and name it dragon mimicry. I think that the reason that many people could speak so harsh and rude so easily, is because the creator of this ability is also a user in this HW. I didn't see neither so much opposition nor so much rudeness in any other ability talk page. --Janrodrigo 16:31, 7 November 2009 (EST)
  • Thats not what i mean, its called Phoenix mimicry and can do actaully the same things as a phoenix.

If fire breathing was Dragon mimicry, it should be able to fly and thats not possible with fire breathing so its not the same and you know that.--Yoshi n1 16:36, 7 November 2009 (EST)

    • Thats not the point. The point is that someone could have called it dragon mimicry and someone would have gotten upset, just because of the name.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 16:38, 7 November 2009 (EST)
      • But nobody is going to call it dragon mimicry if you can't fly with that ability, so this discussion doesn't really make sense.

But yes, i get you and i think that IF fire breathing was called Dragon mimicry that people where going get mad.--Yoshi n1 16:44, 7 November 2009 (EST)

        • Even then I don't think they'd be mad - not like how people are reacting to this ability, at least. Fire breathing being called dragon mimicry just seems silly and obviously not suited to the world it's supposed to be in. Phoenix mimicry also has the problem that the ability itself doesn't fit in with other abilites in the world - I mean, there's no way you could possiblely link the three abilities together due to a common source, unlike Tracy's ability or Hiro's. --BardinessBoy 16:54, 7 November 2009 (EST)
          • OK! It's time to let this go. This discussion is going no where. why keep it up?--Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:00, 7 November 2009 (EST)
            • There is no reason to keep it up, totally agree.--Yoshi n1 17:05, 7 November 2009 (EST)
          • Yes, there is a way BardinessBoy, and it's through the character's personality. I know it's not very common in Heroes but it is in some other SF. If you were presented with the character in the show, then if the three different powers would manifest with much gap and if they would show the powers manifestations relating them to the character's personal development, then if they would call the ability by the character's name (Draph's ability for example)... then almost everyone would be feeling almost nothing but sympathy with it. It's just because all the aspects of the ability was presented in once, that it got so much opposition. Not because of its being three "physically" not related powers in one. --Janrodrigo 17:09, 7 November 2009 (EST)

P.S. (Sorry, because of edit conflict, I didn't see the two above comments)

Archive

I think it's time to archive this page already. Each section seems like it has the amount of about 3 episode synopsises in it.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 16:47, 7 November 2009 (EST)

  • I kinda agree, but what would we call it "Archive 4th November 2009 - 7th November 2009" ? Ha, 3 days discussion and already ready for an archive! --mc_hammark 17:07, 7 November 2009 (EST)

Simone

Hmm. Giving Simone this ability would be one way to bring her back. --mc_hammark 17:55, 7 November 2009 (EST)

  • Or you could just time travel and save her. :P -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 17:56, 7 November 2009 (EST)
    • Yeah, but that wouldn't involve her having an ability. ;) --mc_hammark 17:57, 7 November 2009 (EST)
      • But it would be easier to do. :P -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 18:00, 7 November 2009 (EST)
        • Not really. With time travel you'd have to go back, save Simone but still get Peter and Isaac to head along the same path (like Hiro did with Past Hiro in OUaTiT) as well as candice, mr bennet, and anyone else who was affected by these changes. With Pheonix mimicry all she'd have to do is appear and have been regenerated from her ashes when she was cremated (since that seemed to be a company policy, like Bob had done with Noah and in Building 26). --mc_hammark 18:09, 7 November 2009 (EST)
          • But where would she get this ability? You would have to procure the formula or some other means of giving her that ability, and the chances of her getting it are slim. -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 18:11, 7 November 2009 (EST)
            • No, ability hereditary. And remember, sometimes abilities don't manifest until they need to, Nathan's flight only kicking in before he would have been injured by the car crash, so Simone's would cause her to rise from her ashes once she was cremated. --mc_hammark 18:15, 7 November 2009 (EST)
              • But I don't believe she naturally held it, or we wouldn't be having this disscussion. :P -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 18:20, 7 November 2009 (EST)
                • If that did happen, I would SCREAM! I hate Simone! :-P--Hiroman 06:01, 8 November 2009 (EST)
                  • Simone is much better than Caitlin or Emma, I'd love to see her again. You just have to back in time and fake her death by, dunno, sending a clone or a shape shifter to be killed by Isaac. But giving her a power... Green.gif AltesUTC CH
                    • I hated Simone too. And I think Emma is way better than Simone and Caitlin.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 08:57, 8 November 2009 (EST)