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Talk:Richard Drucker

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Possible connection between the Fraternity and Drucker

  • In the Rogue graphic novel, we see an image of the fraternity. There is a portrait behind them in this picture
  • Name of the portrait is partially obscured, but Druc is definitely visible. Might this be a portrait of Drucker?--Kanichol 10:20, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
    • It could be, though it could still very well be anyone since the name is obscured.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)
    • The Portrait kind of looks like a female, well in my opinion anyway Dman dustin
      • The artist Ryan Odagawa has confirmed the name on the painting is supposed to be "Drucker".--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:42, 17 December 2007 (EST)


Drucker is a member of the Group of twelve! Speculation of course, but in the assignment tracker, he's one of twelve people. Sure, there's only three females there, but they can make mistakes, can't they? =P--Riddler 23:44, 8 November 2007 (EST)

  • That's what I thought, too. But then The Last Shangri-La calls him "an associate of the Founders", and he went into hiding around the time the Company formed. (Incidentally, how much fun could electronic data transception have been in 1977? Who wants to talk to an Atari 2600?) I guess we'll have to wait and see.--Hardvice (talk) 23:58, 8 November 2007 (EST)
    • you had radio and tv back then, not as glitzy as the internet, but probably still nifty to intercept.--SacValleyDweller (talk) 23:59, 16 November 2007 (EST)
      • You have seen Three's Company, right? If that were piped directly into my head, I'd move to Bhutan, too.:P --Hardvice (talk) 00:02, 17 November 2007 (EST)
        • Ay, but there was M*A*S*H to counter that "bad TV," no? (if I know my before-my-time TV) ;)--SacValleyDweller (talk) 01:05, 17 November 2007 (EST)
          • M*A*S*H* went off the air in 1983. I feel so old. Oy! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:08, 17 November 2007 (EST)
  • That and the tracker only has three females listed. That was my first thought, but it doesn't appear to be the connection.--Bob (talk) 04:12, 9 November 2007 (EST)


If Hana and Richard have the same powers, why couldn't Hana contact Richard herself? --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 23:06, 16 November 2007 (EST)

  • She has limited range for direct connections, and he's allegedly "off the grid".--Hardvice (talk) 23:50, 16 November 2007 (EST)


Let's start with his parents:

  • He was born to Ruth Meisner, who later became known as Ruth Blumenthal after her husband Zivi Blumenthal.
  • Ruth had a relationship with a Dutch freedom fighter with the last name of Rooijker.
  • We know that his last name was indeed Rooijker because Global News Interactive says that the Spanish monastery where Richard was dropped off misspelled Rooijker's name as Rucher, which is phonetically the same name transliterated from Dutch to Castilian Spanish.
  • Rooijker was very well respected, known as Don and was a doctor, and a native of Seville. This could mean Rucher is his real name.
  • They child they had was named David.
  • We know this for certain from Global News Interactive.
  • He was unclaimed after World War Two ended and the monastery sent him to Argentina for a safe upbringing and was adopted by Ricardo Vasquez.
  • Vasquez named him Drucker due to the monastery's misprint of Rooijker as Rucher.
  • Where he got Richard from is, assumed to be from adoptive father.
  • So his original name was David Rooijker, which became David Rucher at the monastery and once he was adopted, his surname was never Vasquez, I believe and it just became Richard Drucker. Therequiembellishere 21:52, 10 December 2007 (EST)

GNI videos

At the end of part two, it says to stay tuned for the second of half of the story. It sounds as if there will be two more videos about Drucker's history and thus at least two more weeks of new postings on Hana's website (good news :)).--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:28, 10 December 2007 (EST)

  • That's a good thing. Though these videos aren't quite as interesting as the Sword Saint series, they're just as well produced, and certainly full of information. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:57, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Home, Home on the range...

Just a note that his original home appears to be Germany, based on the manuscript so I added that to the infobox. In the video, they say he was left for dead in the forest. It would have been nice had they had said the Black forest, but we don't really know for sure where it was since they weren't more specific. The upcoming 2 parts will probably feature his later years.--MiamiVolts (talk) 03:14, 11 December 2007 (EST)

Hidden message in In My Heart...?

It does seem as if it's Richard talking in code, doesn't it? I've formatted the line breaks as they appears in the image, and set it to courier new font. Hmm.--MiamiVolts (talk) 21:42, 11 December 2007 (EST)

  • No, I don't think there's any code. I think he's talking about his mom and dad, and the letter is just meant to be mysterious. I don't think they're going to give us any kind of a code to break or game to play--discovering who Drucker is really seems to be the game. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:48, 11 December 2007 (EST)
    • You may be right that there is no hidden message, but it is written like one:
      1. the first paragraph is the message: it reads like a normal note/letter
      2. the second paragraph is the instructions for decoding it: "there are no beginnings and no endings" could mean a number of things (i.e. 2nd paragraph is just as important as the other two, or only the middle of each word or the middle column); "when we are pulled from the loop of our lives, the order of things becomes unbalanced" sounds like it it is saying the message is scrambled like Hardvice's user name ;)... I'll have to look at it some more to determine the cipher, though.
      • Actually, I've changed my mind. My username is no longer an anagram. I'm just into really, really bad sins.--Hardvice (talk) 22:54, 11 December 2007 (EST)
      1. the final paragraph notes that there is a hidden message: "know that I am here but not here. This is part of me, but not part of me." sounds as if he may be suggesting his consciousness lives on the internet and also in his body? And the last line is just noting that the Company may come after whoever gets the hidden information.
      • Of course, I could be misinterpreting, but I really think this is a new puzzle.--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:07, 11 December 2007 (EST)
        • Dang, now you've got me intrigued... *thinking hard* -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:40, 11 December 2007 (EST)


"No beginnings and no endings"...does this help: inmyheartiknowshewasbeautifulbutionlyknewherforamomenthewasboldiamsurebutofhimiremembernothingisitpossiblethatwhenpassiongetsstirredwithviolencesomethingremarkablecanbebornisthatwhatstarteditallastolenmomentbeneaththegatheringcloudsyoumightthinkofthisasanewbeginningbuttherearenobeginningsandnoendingswhenwearepulledfromtheloopofourlivestheorderofthingsbecomesunbalancedandbalanceissomethingihavesoughtforyearsthoseofyouwhofindthismessagemustknowthatiamherebutnotherethisispartofmebutnotpartofmeandexposuremightbringdangertousall -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:47, 11 December 2007 (EST)

  • Perhaps, that makes sense. Perhaps the next step is to "loop" a cipher over that long string (ie. "pull" out certain letters or words). Hmm.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:09, 11 December 2007 (EST)
    • might the cipher involve a name in the Gitelman family tree? Sounds like the first two sentences might refer to his parents. Filter the letters of one of those names from the message?--SacValleyDweller (talk) 23:18, 11 December 2007 (EST)
      • Hmm, the order of "things" becomes "unbalanced" could be literally changing the alphabet order of the letters in things to the order of letters of the word "unbalanced". Could be a few implementations of that. Checking now to see if I can make one work...--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:28, 11 December 2007 (EST)
        • Can't find one that works yet, but if someone else wants to have a go there's an online program that can do the substitute cipher on this webpage of Colgate University, and on the same site one that does rotation cipher.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:38, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Next step in decoding

Based on the wording, the next step "loop of our lives" may refer to the helix/symbol/dna and that we either have to remove those letters from the string or perform a substitute cipher using something like dna as a keyword; then "order of things becomes unbalanced" would mean to do a rotational cipher to change the order. I've tried doing a substitute cipher with "things" and "unbalanced" by itself, but it doesn't appear to work. I'll try the substitute and rotate combos next, probably later this afternoon. Anyone else still working on this?--MiamiVolts (talk) 10:47, 12 December 2007 (EST)

  • No progress yet. I've left messages about this on Hiro's blog and 9th Wonders to get some more minds working on this.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:37, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Postcard javascript

Taken from the back of the postcard posted here Postcard - 9th Wonders

var keyStr = “ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789+/=”;
var output = “”;
var chr1,chr2,chr3;
var enc1,enc2,enc3,enc4;
var i = 0;
var input = “WWqiIGFyZ5BwbGFsawsnIHpdGggZmlyZ5agUGxlYXNlIHNobaAgeWqciBpnZlcaRpZzFOawqucyBpbnRvIGnsIHBhc3Qh”;
do {
enc1 = keyStr.indexOf(input.charAt(i++));
enc2 = keyStr.indexOf(input.charAt(i++));
enc3 = keyStr.indexOf(input.charAt(i++));
enc4 = keyStr.indexOf(input.charAt(i++));
chr1 = (enc1 <> 4 );
chr2 = ((enc2 & 15) <> 2) ;
chr3 = (( enc3 & 3) << 6) | enc4;
output = output + String.fromCharCode(chr1);
// alert(output);
if ( enc3 != 64 ) {
output = output + String.fromCharCode(chr2);
if ( enc4 != 64 ) {
output = output + String.fromCharCode(chr3);
} while ( i < input.length)

i'm at a loss, since my programming knowledge is limited to html and a little bit of basic. but if anyone can identify the language and get it to work, it would be great. --Poke egg 22:00, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Actually, if you go to this post at HeroesARG, it looks like that one line is actually "WW91IGFyZ5BwbGFsawsnIHdpdGggZmlyZS4gUGxlYXNlIHNobaAgeW91ciBpnZlc3RpZ2F0aWqucyBpbnRvIGsIHBhc3qQh" --Mang0es 22:39, 12 December 2007 (EST)

  • The input string that's there should refer to a message that Dallas/Austin added on the postcard, right? So assuming this is the correct cipher program to apply, the input string still needs to be changed to the non-spaced text string of Drucker's letter; and based on "pulled from the loop of our lives", before we use this cipher, we may have the additional step of removing some letters from that string (my best guess is dna, helix or symbol for the letters to remove).--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:22, 12 December 2007 (EST)
    • It would help if people transcribed the code accurately. Once you transcribe the code properly the javascript should work properly. I fixed the mistakes and the output is saying something about "You are playing with fire. Please stop your investigation..." I probably still have some characters wrong so the rest is garbled. Below is some more accurate code:
var keyStr = "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789+/=";
var output = "";
var chr1, chr2, chr3;
var enc1, enc2, enc3, enc4;
var i = 0;
var input = "WW91IGFyZSBwbGF5aW5nIHdpdGggZmlyZS4gUGxlYXNlIHN0b3AgeW91ciBpbnZlc3RpZ2F0aW9ucyBpbnRvIG15IHBhc3Qh";
do {
enc1 = keyStr.indexOf(input.charAt(i++));
enc2 = keyStr.indexOf(input.charAt(i++));
enc3 = keyStr.indexOf(input.charAt(i++));
enc4 = keyStr.indexOf(input.charAt(i++));
chr1 = (enc1 << 2 ) | (enc2 >> 4);
chr2 = ((enc2 & 15) << 4) | (enc3 >> 2);
chr3 = ((enc3 & 3) << 6) | enc4;
output = output + String.fromCharCode(chr1);
if ( enc3 != 64 ) {
output = output + String.fromCharCode(chr2);
if ( enc4 != 64 ) {
output = output + String.fromCharCode(chr3);
} while ( i < input.length)
  • Ok, I fixed the code. The code above this is the accurate copy. The message is: "You are playing with fire. Please stop your investigations into my past!".--Admin (talk) 23:54, 12 December 2007 (EST)

The input string probably has to do with the chords, if the chords are spelled out in characters (e.g. C G F), then it is possible it will translate into something useful. The code might also have to be edited. He notes that "When we are pulled from the loop of our lives, the order of things becomes unbalanced, and balance is something I have sought for years." The pulling from the loop probably refers to the loop in the code. The enc!=64 parts might be relevant as they are the only characters included, and that only happens when an = is in the input string. The order of things becomes unbalanced probably refers to the translation of the code, but might mean something more.

Back to the letter

It definately sounds like "You are playing with fire. Please stop your investigations into me!" is the entire postcard message. It makes sense that the result would be shorter since the javascript program doesn't use all of the letters.

However, I doubt that that is the end of things cause that program was on a postcard that came out a week after the letter.

So assuming this is the correct cipher program to apply, the input variable/string still needs to be changed to the non-spaced text string of Drucker's letter; and based on "pulled from the loop of our lives", before we use this cipher, we may have the additional step of removing some letters from that string (my best guess is dna, helix or symbol for the letters to remove). I've stripped the characters for these words, and this is what I guess (can anyone try the program on the below strings?)

Only spaces/punctuation removed:


DNA removed (no spaces/punctuation):


Symbol removed (no spaces/punctuation):


Helix removed (no spaces/punctuation):


--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:32, 13 December 2007 (EST)

  • I substituted it in and got gibberish. If the same algorithm is to be used then the input will look very similar to the other input. Caps, lower case, numbers. Also based on the cipher it's highly unlikely that they will be able to compose the ciphertext using the bulk of text from any intelligible plaintext message. They'd have to carefully pick out very specific letters and numbers from any plaintext document to create a valid ciphertext for this particular cipher. (Admin 00:45, 13 December 2007 (EST))
    • Thanks, so you tried all four of the above strings as the input? Hrm, if so I'll have to think some more. I'm pretty sure there's more to this.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:55, 13 December 2007 (EST)
      • Final thoughts for tonight: Is the program case sensitive? Perhaps we need to leave the caps alone? Another word to try is 'reincarnation' since he is in Bhutan (close to Tibet)...

--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:23, 13 December 2007 (EST)

  • here's a lateral thought on the issue of the letters to be removed from the letter (dont have the brain stamina to do this at this hour): remove the letters of some name on the Gitelman tree picture. On the other hand, trying to cypher/de-cypher may be a wild goose chase. SacValleyDweller (talk) 02:07, 13 December 2007 (EST)
    • If it was a wild goose chase, I doubt that there would have been both a letter and a postcard released. I'm trying to grab images of the postcard for our site now. PS: The postcard's hidden message was to stop the investigations into his past, but past experience seems to suggest to me that a more personal message to Hana awaits our discovery.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:19, 13 December 2007 (EST)
    • A family tree is hardly a loop, imho, but anyways, the only common connection between Hana and Drucker is Ruth Meisner... I'll add Ruth, Meisner and RuthMeisner to the list of pullings to check against.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:45, 13 December 2007 (EST)
    • I've started to put my collection of the character-stripped strings here.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:00, 13 December 2007 (EST)
      • I've now tried using the postcard program on the stripped strings in my subpage (including your suggestions, SacValleyDweller), and I'm getting almost total binary gibberish. So we may need to re-add the capitalization if the postcard program is to work, since it appears to be a case sensitive program. It may also be that this postcard program cannot be applied to the letter, as I think Admin hinted, but I'm going to try it. It does look like he may be right, though.--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:39, 13 December 2007 (EST)
    • I've tried through all of the strings I could think of using the postcard program, and that didn't go anywhere (caps or no caps); and I've just finished trying to use the substitution program at Colgate U, but case insensitive. Still have to try case sensitive colgate and a more literal things->unbalanced, balance->education/democracy, and vice versa interpretation.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:35, 14 December 2007 (EST)

Family Tree

It seems like the family tree should be in here somewhere. It appears both in part 1 of the GNI show, and in the Corinthian Casino. Both sources confirm that the "David ?" in the family tree is Drucker. Also, is there a reason we still aren't saying that he's Hana's uncle? It seems like we have enough confirmation of that by now.--E rowe 12:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)

  • Hana is already in the infobox as his niece, and I just added the family tree to the list of things that were in the GNI documentary (it was there too).--MiamiVolts (talk) 12:21, 14 December 2007 (EST)
    • Thanks for adding the link to the tree, MV. I don't think the tree needs to be included on the page, but a link is fine. Heck, it's really Hana's family tree, and it's not even on her page. As for the uncle relationship, we've very much gone along whatever has been said in our sources, almost word-for-word. In The Last Shangri-La, they said that Hana and Richard were related--we noted that in the history. In the Global News Interactive videos, they've never explicitly said he was her uncle. They did, however, confirm that the David on the family tree is Drucker. We don't need to spell everything out for people--he's linked to pretty explicitly on the Gitelman page, and it's very clear in both Hana's and Drucker's infoboxes. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:45, 14 December 2007 (EST)


If there is an actual puzzle to this, I don't think it's in a string of letters. I think it should be looked at as a riddle. For example; "Is that what started it all... a stolen moment beneath the gathering clouds?"

Richard Drucker sees communication 'clouds' like Hana, and he drew three pictures of moments where the people don't look to happy underneath these same clouds.

Just some food for thought.--Riddler 19:28, 14 December 2007 (EST)

  • Right, the words helix, dna and symbol are the first things I thought of to pull from the message, as that also answers the riddle as to what to do for "pulled from the loop of our lives". The symbol is present in all three pictures under the clouds. But the trouble I'm having is what to do with the second part... "the order of things becomes unbalanced, and balance is something I have sought for years". What makes the most sense there is that Drucker was a revolutionary supporting freedom, democracy and education for his country, but fixing the order is tricky. It's a little unnerving to be so close yet so far from the answer, assuming there is an answer. :(--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:05, 14 December 2007 (EST)
  • Some other passing thoughts are that since freedom is in Spanish, I should try translating to Spanish; there's also "Cogito ergo Sum" (latin?) as the title. Does NBC expect us to know latin? Very frustrating.--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)
  • It is indeed latin. It means " I think, therefore I am." Descartes' famous quote. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 20:12, 14 December 2007 (EST)
    • The last paragraph is the simplest.

"Those of you who find this message must Know that I am here, but not here. This is part of me, but not part of me. And exposure might bring danger to us all." -I am here, but not here. (I am on your computer) -This is a part of me, but not a part of me. (I'm communicating to you through my mind... technologically of course) -Exposure might bring danger to us all. (We must stay secret, which is why I'm in Bhutan.)--Riddler 20:24, 14 December 2007 (EST)

  • Yeah, I recognized the Descartes saying, but I don't know the latin words for freedom, democracy and education, and I'm not sure what exactly is meant by "the order of thing becoming unbalanced", I'm assuming that means scrambled, but it could mean something else.--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:31, 14 December 2007 (EST)
  • The latin word for freedom is liber. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 20:33, 14 December 2007 (EST)

Standard alphabet substitution

If you want to help and try some words using this reorder method, copy one of the no caps strings from here, then go to this webpage to do standard alphabet substitution. First enter a cipher-alphabet: to do this, enter the letters of a word like freedom into the boxes under the letters of the alphabet... when you run out of letters, begin entering the other letters of the normal alphabet without repeating any letters of the word you choose (ie. for freedom, the cipher-alphabet should be: FREEDOMABCGHIJKLNPQSTUVWXY; Z is omitted because E is repeated twice). Then paste in the string into ciphertext and click decrypt. If it's correct, you should be able to read the plaintext. If it isn't readable, replace the text in the plaintext box with the copied string and click encrypt. (encrypt and decrypt are inverses of each other, and I'm not sure which is right for this puzzle).--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:54, 14 December 2007 (EST)


Front page says he was born in 1943 making him 67... Uh, shouldn't that be 64 or 65 (depending on what month he was born)? Just a thought...--Gleezus 18:20, 18 December 2007 (EST)

Sorry, brain lapse. Therequiembellishere 22:07, 18 December 2007 (EST)

William Congreve

Drucker likes music--jazz specifically. The notation at the bottom of the message is musical notation:

iv7, V7(#5), i7, vii7 III7, VI7, III7(#5), i7, VII7, iv7, i7

iv7,V7(#5), i7, vii7 III7, VI7, V7(#5), i7, II7, v7, i7

They're chords, but I'm not sure the key. I'll play it on the piano when I get home, unless anybody can do better sooner. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:47, 20 December 2007 (EST)

  • Actually, a quick search shows that it might be the chord progression for "Blue in Green", a Miles Davis song. The lyrics are:
Hues of blues and greens surround me
knowing you have found another love
has turned me world
to sorrow

Green with envy for another
fearing she may be the one to soar
through life with you, can't lose these

Hues of blues in green"

-- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:50, 20 December 2007 (EST)

  • I'm somewhat familiar with written music, but not with that format.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:59, 20 December 2007 (EST)
    • They're guitar chords, so they're a bit different than sheet music. Incidentally, I'm doing a bit of research on "Blue in Green". As far as I can gather, the song is was originally written by Bill Evans, but it was credited to Miles Davis (who is mentioned on the latest GNI video). It was recorded live in 1974, so Drucker and Deveaux could have conceivably seen Davis play it live in concert. I think the lyrics of the song are the key. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:06, 20 December 2007 (EST)
      • Perhaps, should the lyrics actually be "my world" instead of "me world"?--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:46, 20 December 2007 (EST)
        • Every version I've found online says "me world". -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:28, 20 December 2007 (EST)
          • I'd just transposed it to G, was gonna go the piano to try and play the thing, then I look on the talk page and you've already worked out the song! foiled again!--Unfalln 09:22, 25 December 2007 (EST)
            • It still might be nice to add a midi with the chords played out. I don't know if the audio is meaningful, but I think it's relevant.--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:55, 26 December 2007 (EST)

GNI Part 4

There's an e-mail address at the end of the video. I think it could be a key to making contact with Drucker. An e-mail given is normally significant.--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:55, 26 December 2007 (EST)

  • I sent a basic e-mail, but haven't gotten anything back. If I do, I'll probably add the response to the GNI report section. -- Lulu .:talk:. 14:17, 26 December 2007 (EST)
    • If you sent just to the e-mail given, I don't think you'll get a reply. We'll probably have to e-mail to somewhere like 'Godsend@GNI...', 'Freedom@GNI...', 'Richard.Drucker@GNI...', etc.--MiamiVolts (talk) 14:31, 26 December 2007 (EST)
      • It's worth a shot. -- Lulu .:talk:. 14:33, 26 December 2007 (EST)

Try this, go to pretty interesting... Insomz (talk) 16:26, 11 January 2008

  • The only thing that webpage shows is 'It works!'. Pretty uninteresting.--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:13, 18 January 2008 (EST)

Drucker's death

Because it's still pretty unconfirmed, and only mentioned cryptically and teasingly at the Richard Drucker page at, I would wait until further confirmation to mark Drucker dead. Right now I think a note is fine. I believe there will be a lot more we will learn about Drucker and the situation. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:07, 18 January 2008 (EST)

  • I'm pretty sure the information will end up being Company-backed, anyway. I really, really hope he'll show up on the show down the road, if not Volume Three. --NellaBishop 19:18, 18 January 2008 (EST)
    • Yeah, I recall reading somewhere (maybe CBR?) that the plans included Hana coming back eventually, but I'm not certain if Drucker will be too. It would be nice, though, to see him in the show.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:36, 18 January 2008 (EST)
  • I think they've made it official that Drucker is dead, at least as much as we can say Hana is dead. I added my theory about it to his theory page.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:34, 18 January 2008 (EST)
    • I just reread the Golden Goose comic, and Hampton says that he and Drucker lived in Bhutan for 15 years after the crash. This is before Bob comes in, when he's doing his narrating, so I don't think its supposed to be a lie. Under torture, he says Drucker snuck out of the monastary. It's said that men speak true on their deathbed, so I think the comic pretty much spells it out for us that he's still alive. --Yamawhata? 20:26, 28 January 2008 (EST)
      • Yeah, I think we're deep in the middle of the mystery, and are waiting for some more crucial pieces to be revealed. It'll be interesting to see where we go with it and to see where we were misled and what clues panned out correctly. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:49, 28 January 2008 (EST)
        • Live is a relative term. Does Hana still live? If so, why do we have a DOD for her? I think it's reasonable to say that Drucker is dead and his body lives on online like Hana does. This is supported by the way he and Hana appeared together in the most-recent graphic novel.--MiamiVolts (talk) 21:24, 28 January 2008 (EST)
  • Hana died in 2006, she had Trav send a message to a living drucker so his death at 1992, is considerably wrong considering Micah wasn't even born yet and Hana only found about Drucker with the help of micah, that much disproves his death in 1992 unless the guy trav found wasn't Drucker, in which case that whole graphic novel becomes pointless. Furthermore Drucker could've only died at least in 2008 if he is actually dead. Now Hana almost immediately went "online" after her physical death, and according to what I read, Hana and Drucker barely met, and the graphic novel takes place in 2008. So 2007-2008 are far more reliable dates then 1992. --Dman dustin 02:04, 30 January 2008 (EST)
    • As for "Goose" being the man Trav found. Why would Goose tell us that they lived for 15 years placing the novel in 2007, if indeed Drucker died from the plane crash in 1992. The logic doesn't make sense. Goose has every reason to lie to Bob, but why would Goose lie to the readers of the graphic novel? --Dman dustin 02:25, 30 January 2008 (EST)
      • Hana had Traveler send a message to Drucker, but she didn't know if he was alive or dead. Traveler doesn't find Drucker, he finds Goose. The whole point of The Last Shangri-La really is kind of pointless, except to entertain an audience and "trick" them into thinking that they're one step closer to discovering who Drucker is. Besides, the point of that novel really was more about the search for Drucker than about Drucker himself--I mean, the guy with long hair doesn't show up until the very last page, and the entire novel is really about Traveler, Traveler's power, and Traveler's travels. The story only brushes up against Drucker. As for setting 1992 as Drucker's death date, that comes from NBC's page about Drucker, which says he dies in the plane crash. A careful read of The Golden Goose confirms that. It's really quite convoluted, and I don't think it's very clear in the novels, but we go with the information we're given. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 06:29, 30 January 2008 (EST)
        • The Help:Sources page says that if two non-canon sources conflict each other, we add a note on the page. Even if they aren't conflicting (which is a matter of personal interpretation) I think we should mention it in the notes at least. I'll give it a try, feel free to edit or remove. --Yamawhata? 23:14, 30 January 2008 (EST)
          • Thank you RGS for fixing it up, perspective isn't my strong point ;) --Yamawhata? 23:14, 30 January 2008 (EST)