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Talk:Santiago

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Wait

This is pretty much a word-for-word copy of Santiago's information on Create Your Hero. Until Santiago actually shows up, this page is not needed. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 13:46, 6 March 2008 (EST)

  • I agree, unless we have confirmation that Santiago won the vote, the article should be deleted.--MiamiVolts (talk) 14:07, 6 March 2008 (EST)
    • Agree. If Santiago wins the vote, an admin can easily restore the article. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:27, 6 March 2008 (EST)
  • Shouldn't we add his Accelerated probability to his template.--Datnymonster 16:48, 5 Novemeber 2008 (EST)

Kinda funny

This is the only reason I, a spoilerphobe, would have to post a comment on a spoiler page: I find it kinda funny that these "spoilers" about Santiago have been up and available since February 4, 2008 as non-spoilers. LOL --SacValleyDweller (talk) 02:42, 5 November 2008 (EST)

  • Yeah, it's kind of a funny situation. This page is not really a spoiler at all, but I moved it to the spoiler namespace because I didn't know where else to put it. It just didn't feel right to put it in the main namespace yet...-- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:04, 5 November 2008 (EST)
  • When Obama was anounced president he was anounced the winner "ironic isn't it." --Datnymonster 16:39, 5 November 2008

Liquid Woman

should she get her own spoiler article as well now?--Piemanmoo 16:25, 5 November 2008 (EST)

Fan Theories

I've made a Theories page for him and linked it from his spoiler page, but because it's sort of a spoiler I haven't added it to the Portal. --ShadeSlayer 15:15, 6 November 2008 (EST)

  • Theories about spoilers don't go on their own pages. Theories about spoilers should be put in a "Fan Theories" section of the spoiler page. I'll take care of that now. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:26, 6 November 2008 (EST)
    • In 4 days he won't be a spoiler anymore, and does it count as a spoiler if they've already confirmed it? I mean, it's hardly as if people would refuse to vote in the Create a Hero incase it spoiled the surprise. --ShadeSlayer 15:30, 6 November 2008 (EST)
      • I'm not fully convinced that stuff released on NBC is a spoiler, but I understand people who are. It's better to be safe than sorry in this case... -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:12, 6 November 2008 (EST)

Two Abilities?

I thought evolved humans were only supposed to have one core power. Santiago looks like he has two. --Dman dustin 02:07, 11 November 2008 (EST)

  • "Accelerated probability" possibly slows down time, allowing him to move at what appears to be super speed. Or the canon just got shot to pieces with a rocket launcher. --Matchu 04:52, 11 November 2008 (EST)
    • Agree, what he anticipates does not happen in superspeed, it's just a vision, is'nt it? --Juba 04:56, 11 November 2008 (EST)
      • I saw no evidence of two powers when I watched the webisode. Just looked like he had super speed. Seb.gwirionyn 14:21, 11 November 2008 (EST)
        • He figured out how to avoid the bus, which probably wouldn't be possible if he only had super speed, like that stream of light "jumping" over the bus and then he does the exact same thing. --Dman dustin 14:24, 11 November 2008 (EST)

When he is using his AP ability time slows or stops time (much like when Hiro "stops" time). It doesn't give him super speed. He just moves like normal while time is stopped or slowed. --Snow Leapord 14:43, 11 November 2008 (EST)

The only evidence he has two powers is his Create your Hero text entry. Intuitive Empath 16:11, 11 November 2008 (EST)

"...When he discovers his extraordinary gifts of Accelerated Probability and Super Speed..."--Riddler 21:52, 11 November 2008 (EST)

  • I think they did just shoot the canon to pieces. I think they gave him super speed but changed it halfway through because some rookie said, "Oh! I have an idea!" At first it seemed like the glowy thing was all in his head while he figured out the best way to do all these things and figure out these situations, but then he somehow sprints super fast next to Elisa...I hope they come up with some sort of explanation for this, because it seems ridiculous. Even Peter only has one power; it just allows him to use others. -- FlamingTomDude 23:14, 12 November 2008 (EST)
  • To me it looked like he only had the one ability (probability thing) and the "slowed down" time was just a visual representation of how quickly his mind and power show him possibilities. Even coming up on Elisa, the yellow glow thing moves past her, but then Santiago approaches from the OTHER side. That's my thought anyway. --The Mysterious Major Despard 03:00, 12 November 2008 (EST)
  • Maybe it's an ability which has more than one aspect, Hiro can manipulate both time and space with one ability, Matt can get messages, send messages, implant thoughts, make illusions and claims to be able to kill with telepathy. With Linda Tavara, in the interview it was said that her ability has needs to make her find what she needs, see how good it is and take it. Intuitive Empath 05:15, 12 November 2008 (EST)
  • Whats so strange about that? I, last week, stated that we would see evolved humans with more than one natural ability. The two evolved Heroes who have more than one natural ability is Michael Fitzgerald and Santiago. --ACDC1989 08:46, 12 November 2008 (EST)
  • It's the same thing, the endurance can very well be a side effect of enhanced strength, when you push something, it pushes back, we've always noticed that despite the force Jessica applied to something, and she never suffered any ill effects, which means her endurance to that force is higher than that of the average user. In a BTE interview, they said they'd mention something about Daphne's strength cause force equals mass times velocity. Same thing with airborne Nathan. They're adaptations that make the ability usable. Intuitive Empath 10:09, 12 November 2008 (EST)
The behind-the-scenes feature says that it's just accelerated probability. Time slows down for him so that he can see the different outcomes. I say we scrap the "Super speed" part of his ability. He moves fast, but it's just a by-product of time slowing for his ability, accelerated probability. With super speed, I don't think time slows down for the person (like Daphne), she just moves faster. JackOfBloodyHearts 22:54, 17 November 2008 (EST)
OK, I know I said he had super speed earlier.. and you guys are right I was wrong. However, I still don't see any evidence of two powers. That's a big leap in the HeroesVerse and if the feature (I haven't seen it) says only one, I think saying the guy has super speed is - I hate seeing this word on this site - speculation. Seb.gwirionyn 23:28, 17 November 2008 (EST)
Maybe it should be enchanced speed instead of super speed for Santiago it was mentioned he is not as fast as Daphne. --Dave 19:17, 28 November 2008

Possible resolution

I think I may have found evidence it's only one ability, in the Behind the Scenes video for Destiny, when they reach a part where they talk about Santiago's power, they say that when he uses his ability, time slows down for him. It appears that the super speed is a side effect of his ability, not a separate ability. I don't have the link, but I know the video is available at the Heroes NBC site, which in turn is available only USA computers, can anyone verify the video? Intuitive Empath 13:02, 22 November 2008 (EST)

  • I think this is the video to which you're referring. Obviously, the powers work together. But if we're told there are two powers, we should probably stick with that, kinda how we did for Brendan Lewis. I don't know, I'm kinda torn. It's not really explicitly shown that it's two separate powers in the webepisodes, yet Create Your Hero, which is part of Heroes Evolutions, was pretty explicit. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:08, 22 November 2008 (EST)
    • I can't check that link, I'm not in the USA, the video I saw was at youtube, and it's been deleted, but from the thumbnail to the right I think that's the one. Intuitive Empath 13:46, 22 November 2008 (EST)

If you watch webisode #3 you will see that Accelerated Probability does three things, slow down time, show Santiago the probabilities, then accelerates Santiago to wherever he chooses to go. That is conclusive proof he doesn't have Super Speed and never did regardless what NBC says. --Snow Leapord 08:22, 26 November 2008 (EST)

I think the writers have made it pretty clear that super speed is a byproduct of accelerated probability. You are correct in saying that he has only one true ability, but super speed is another auxiliary ability, much like Brendan Lewis with plant manipulation and rapid cell regeneration. I don't really see any problem in listing both abilities on the page, but it should be kept in mind that super speed is a byproduct and not a true ability of his. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 08:29, 26 November 2008 (EST)
Exactly right. We are chronicling Destiny as much as we are chronicling Create Your Hero, which is legitimate Heroes Evolutions content. In fact, it informed Adam Armus and Kay Foster as they wrote the webisodes. I don't think we need to update super speed every time we see Santiago run fast, but we do need to include his name on the page, and include links from Santiago's page to the super speed page. We can't just ignore a near-canon source for another near-canon source. Unless they are explicit in saying that Santiago has only one power (just as they were explicit in saying he has two powers in the Create Your Hero description), we will use all sources. And really, all sources (webisode, NBC, Create Your Hero, Behind the Eclipse, and behind-the-scenes videos) point to one main power and one "byproduct" power. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)
Create your hero goes under Heroes Evolution and only there, that is the only place Super Speed should go and even then only when directly quoting NBC. In Santiago's infobox or anywhere else. His name does not belong on the Super Speed article because he does not have it he only has Accelerated probability. Since you can't realize that I won't support this "wiki" that relies on opinions and unfactual evidence that has been trumped by the show to add garbage to an article. --Snow Leapord 08:57, 26 November 2008 (EST)
I'm not really sure why it's so hard for you to grasp this concept. Super speed is a byproduct of accelerated probability. Therefore, it should be listed on the super speed page; you're right, he doesn't have super speed outright, but as it is still an effect of his innate ability, accelerated probability, we would be remiss not to list him in the super speed article. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 19:43, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Edward

I looked and looked and couldn't find any mention of Santiago's father's name. It was listed on this page as Edward, but I don't know where that name came from. As far as I can tell, it's not mentioned in the webisode, the Create Your Hero descriptions, any Comic-Con promotions, or anywhere else I can think of. I couldn't even find it in the promo for upcoming webisodes. Hmm. Anybody know how that name came about? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:08, 15 November 2008 (EST)

  • AFAIK the name appeared in the casting call. Chrisyu357 08:45, 15 November 2008 (EST)
    • Okay, I see it now. (Thank goodness for ODI!) So it's a spoiler then. If/when he appears, we can add the name. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 09:02, 15 November 2008 (EST)
      • Not that I mind, but I thought names weren't being considered spoilers. When did this change?--MiamiVolts (talk) 11:41, 15 November 2008 (EST)
        • Depends on the person. --Snow Leapord 14:03, 15 November 2008 (EST)
          • Right. A person presumed dead and coming back to life is a pretty big spoiler. Finding out Bob's last name is not. I don't think Iris's name was even said in the webisode, so attaching a name to her is not a big deal. It's really the sourcing that gets me--if Joe and Aron said something like "Santiago really missed his father, Edward," then that's one thing. But linking to a casting call with very spoilery stuff, I just don't think that's a good idea. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:33, 15 November 2008 (EST)
            • I hadn't known that spoiler before you posted it (I just blacked it out)... I didn't think the source had to be linked in the mainspace; and that a note that it comes from a spoilery casting call should suffice.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:52, 15 November 2008 (EST)
              • I sat and looked all over for where the name came from, and I wouldn't want that to happen again to somebody else--if we are taking a name from somewhere, we should put the source. But even still, casting calls have put information that has changed dramatically, including people's names. I'd feel much more comfortable if we just wait to put the name on there. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:18, 15 November 2008 (EST)
  • Why isnt there a fan theory page?.i had a good theory about santiago being related to maya. Gabriel Bishop 14:24, 12 December 2008 (EST) Gabriel Bishop

Byproducts and aspects?

I'm not sure exactly where to post this (as it could go almost anywhere), or if it's already been explicitly discussed in ths fashion, but here seems like a good place for the moment. At this point, I think we need to establish a rule about this, as it seems somewhat inconsistent. The following are all examples (to me) of aspects or byprductrs of abilities, and are all dealt with in different ways:

  1. Since we have near-canon evidence that Santiago has the byproduct of super speed, we list him as having that ability with a qualifier.
  2. We list Hiro on two ability pages (STM and Teleportation), even though he only has one with an aspect of another.
    • He shouldn't be. Hiro can teleport, but he doesn't have the same ability as Rachel Mills. He can be mentioned in the notes. I'll take care of that now. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:02, 20 December 2008 (EST)
  3. We don't list Mohinder under enhanced strength, even though it is an aspect of his ability.
  4. We don't list Matt or Maury under illusion or dream manipulation, even though these are aspects of their ability.
    • Good. Aspects of their abilities does not mean they have those abilities. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:02, 20 December 2008 (EST)
  5. There are also other abilities that can accomplish the same thing (eg - Candice could create an illusion rendering her invisible, Sylar can use his telekinesis to manipulate metal objects, etc).

So, my questions are, what qualifies a person to be mentioned on the ability page in the main section/infobox as opposed to the notes section, and what actually qualifies as an aspect or byproduct? I don't mean to stir up trouble, but I think we really need to set some rules for this, both to fix the consistency of the site, and to deal with information we get going forward. My two cents would be that everything above, including Santiago, should only be included in the Notes sections, and nowhere else. It's the easiest way to deal with everything, and probably the most accurate, since neither aspect or byproduct is an actual ability. --Stevehim 22:47, 20 December 2008 (EST)

  • As far as I understand, the only person who has a "byproduct" is Santiago, and that's because it was confirmed in an interview, I guess. Brendan Lewis's assignment tracker lists him as having two abilities, and we've ascribed one to being his main ability and the other to being part of the main ability. That's murky. But just because a person is really strong doesn't mean they have have enhanced strength--even if it's the classic case of an adrenaline-pumped mother who lifts a car off her child. Just because Daphne traveled through time does not mean she has Hiro's ability. I'm still going off of Noah's quote to Sylar, that with few exceptions, "Everyone else we've met has had only one ability." (Fallout) Unless someone is confirmed to have more than one ability, we should assume that they only have one. If an aspect of somebody's ability resembles another ability, it does not mean they automatically have it. You are absolutely correct, Stevehim, to question this and look for standardization. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:02, 20 December 2008 (EST)
    • Just a quick two points. While I agree that it should only be listed in the Notes section, I'm not sure an adrenaline burst from a woman is the same as the aspect of Mohinder's ability. I think we should no longer rely on Noah's words to Sylar. For one thing, they would only apply to evolved humans that the Company had information about, and for another they would only apply to those they had encountered up until that point. The statement isn't applicable to anyone that they encountered after, or not at all. That said, I do agree that we shouldn't be granting them the actual ability, even if it's confirmed as a byproduct (especially since 'byproduct' is specifically different from the ability itself, in that it's a byproduct.  ;) --Stevehim 01:23, 21 December 2008 (EST)
    • It was confirmed in an interview that Santiago had "speed" as a byproduct of his power. They didn't say it was super speed or Daphne's ability--quite the contrary, they said it wasn't as fast as Daphne's ability. - Josh (talk/contribs) 23:44, 20 December 2008 (EST)
      • Create Your Hero, part of the Heroes Evolutions content, has a profile on Santiago that says, "He has the power of accelerated probability. Not only that but he realizes he can run super fast! Combined, the two abilities make him unstoppable." -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:00, 21 December 2008 (EST)
        • Still nothing was said about Daphne's ability, "super speed", other than that Santiago's byproduct is slower than it. - Josh (talk/contribs) 00:07, 21 December 2008 (EST)

Where did he go?

So, I know that Santiago was just a webisode character and his series ended, but that doesn't mean his character couldn't show up in a graphic novel or something. His character was just getting good, and then he went off to character limbo...-Vampirate68 21:33, 12 July 2009 (EDT)

  • I agree, he was a cool character. I hope we see more of him somewhere. I also hope if we do see him, it won't be like Echo's appearance.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 21:41, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
    • I do think we could see him this season, as they could probably use his help in starting a new company (i.e. he had ties to the old company) -Vampirate68 22:34, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
      • Thats true. Hopefully that will happen.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 22:39, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
        • Hopefully. He has a lot of potential. -Vampirate68 23:01, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
          • He didn't have ties to the company. when he was approached to join that organization it wasn't the company. this can be seen by him being approached by 2 people with abilities, not the "one of us one of them" philosophy. not to mention they usually bag and tag first, before they have any other contact. -mebadatbball
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