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Spoiler talk:The Wall

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Name

Where did the name come from? Green.gif AltesUTC CH

  • Presumably from the wall that Parkman put up around Sylar's mind.

Hiro

Masi Oka also doesn't star in this one, mabye he is going to die in Fail/Pass........ -- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 07:09, 17 January 2010 (EST)

Arkush

I thought Allan Arkush was let go by NBC after season 3, as said on his page; was he brought back? --mc_hammark 21:10, 23 January 2010 (EST)

  • Yes. Not permanently, though. He was brought back to direct The Wall. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:33, 23 January 2010 (EST)
    • So just a guest director, kinda like Santiago Cabrera was a guest star in S4. --mc_hammark 21:48, 23 January 2010 (EST)

Preview

Personally I thought the strangest/coolest part (of The Art of Deception) was in the preview for this episode where we are informed that rate of time in Sylar's Mindscape (for lack of a better word) is 1 year for every hour. This leads for some real character development on both Sylar's and Peter's part. Think about it. Peter would not be able to forgive Sylar in a few short hours, as that is unrealistic and poor writing in general. But them spending YEARS together gives Peter the chance to move on and forgive him, allowing for progression as a character. But that is just me, your thoughts people? Tbora 22:15, 25 January 2010 (EST)

  • Just moved this comment here from the Episode talk page for The Art of Deception so it could be discussed. The comment had been removed from there, as was appropriate. Regarding the comment itself, I think Parkman will quickly go inside Sylar's head to again to get Peter out, so it probably won't be a year, but it could be a long time. As a consequence, I think it's conceivable that when they wake up, we might find out that Peter is stuck in Sylar's body and vice versa... that could be why Sylar goes to save Emma... just my take on a possible plot twist. :)--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:37, 26 January 2010 (EST)
    • I am not too sure of that, in screencaps released by NBC it shown Peter and Sylar working together to break down a brick wall (not the one with sylar behind it in Matt's house.) with sledge Hammers.My guess is that represents the psychic barriers which Matt put in that is keeping Sylar and Peter in the dream.So by going by that I think its safe to assume that they have to work together to break out and get themselves free and that Matt's not coming to the rescue.But again maybe that is just me Tbora 07:07, 26 January 2010 (EST)
    • I like MiamiVolts idea about the body-switching. However, given those screencaps and the developments in Sylar's character arc lately, it seems likely that Sylar may have actually done the thing he's been trying to do ever since he went to see Virginia Gray the night she died... that is, find redemption. Fitting, given the title of the volume... Anyway, I think it would be interesting for them to have months/years trapped together inside his (Sylar's) mind to work out all their issues and get that whole you-murdered-my-brother thing out of the way. Whatever they do, I think we can look forward to some incredible performances from both Quinto and Ventimiglia.--Clairesxtwin48 20:10, 26 January 2010 (EST)
      • Actually, I think that Sylar may purposely want Peter's body in order to be able to do the one thing I think he wants now that Matt has told him that removing his abilities won't change who he is... to be able to get close to Samuel and take his power/eliminate him... and yes, at the same time he gains some redemption by taking out the big bad. Emma is of little concern to him since he doesn't know her. Also, Peter may decide he wants Sylar's body so he can fulfill his vision of Sylar saving Emma... That would also give Sylar redemption, since he would look like Sylar. BTW, another option would be for both Sylar and Peter to both use shapeshifting again instead of body switching with Matt's power. I think Peter actually only needed to take Sylar's shapeshifting ability, then transform himself to look like Sylar when he went to the Carnival... but what fun would that be? :)--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:52, 28 January 2010 (EST)
        • What good would it do for Peter to save Emma as Sylar? How would that give Sylar redemption? Oh, that's right: IT WOULDN'T. I don't think redemption is in the eyes of the beholder. It's only true redemption if Sylar actually changes and actually does the heroic deeds himself. Otherwise it's just a cheap trick to conn people not in on the body-switch into thinking he's good... much like the whole Sythan debacle. Killing Samuel wouldn't redeem him. It would be a step in the right direction, but it would still be another murder on his hands, rather than a life saved. --Clairesxtwin48 21:52, 28 January 2010 (EST)
          • Emma doesn't know Sylar, but if he somehow stops her from causing a massacre at the Carnival, then perhaps the carnies, at least, will look at him differently... You're right though, even if he were to stop Samuel from destroying the Earth by killing him or otherwise, that wouldn't be total redemption since Sylar will always be a killer... However, that doesn't mean he can't be looked at (by some people at least) as a hero as well, and perhaps this could be a good first step if he really is going to follow the Xena: Warrior Princess route...--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:57, 28 January 2010 (EST)

The Fight We've Been Waiting For?

Usually the people from Behind the Eclipse would admit that later in the season Peter and Sylar FINALLY face off...and it will be amazing...but it will not be what we expect....etc, etc, etc. I for one am kinda sick of it. I want my Sylar VS Peter fight to the bitter end. How perfect would this opportunity be? All alone in the big world. And Peter is using telepathy (meaning, he can basically make himself all-powerful). Kinda cliche since it was done with the Matrix, but I don't care.--Halfxwitted 13:51, 26 January 2010 (EST)

  • Totally agree, there needs to be an real fight to the bitter end.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 13:54, 26 January 2010 (EST)

Wait... Sandra?

So apparently Ashley Crow is going to guest star. What could Sandra possibly have to do with the current ongoing storylines? Is it a sign that she and Bennet are getting back together? Has she secretly had a power all this time and will reveal it to save the world? Is she going to be the one Gretchen contacts when she (Gretchen) realizes that Claire never came back from the Carnival?--Clairesxtwin48 20:13, 26 January 2010 (EST)

  • I'd guess none of the above... perhaps Claire reaches out to her mom for help since her dad has been captured by Samuel.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:05, 28 January 2010 (EST)
She's probably in one of HRG's flashbacks... HiroMystery 01:43, 29 January 2010 (EST)
    • Noah's going to be in the house of mirrors, and is going to see his past and we'll see all about when he was younger and when he and sandra were together. daevon 01:58, 29 January 2010 (EST)
      • Well, not that much younger... or else Sandra would need to be played by a different actress.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:06, 29 January 2010 (EST)
        • Ashley portrayed Sandra in Our Father, which was 1991. I guess flashbacks will cause no problems. Green.gif AltesUTC CH 05:58, 29 January 2010 (EST)
    • Ooh, that could be. I'd forgotten about the potential flashbacks. I'm sad we won't see Sandra turn up at the carnival to do something amazing, but any scene full of Ashley Crow goodness is guaranteed to be amazing. --Clairesxtwin48 17:55, 29 January 2010 (EST)

HRG

I just read the first few pages of the script of The Wall. You guys don't want to miss the first minutes of the episode--huge revelations about HRG. I had to stop reading because I didn't want to be spoiled. Wow. I think it's going to be a great episode! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:15, 29 January 2010 (EST)

  • Where can I find that script???--WarGrowlmon18 14:00, 29 January 2010 (EST)
    • I don't think just anyone can get them. Ryan has lots of contact and is technically part of the Heroes team, so that's how he probably gets them, so that he can improve the wiki as much as possible, given that the wiki is linked to from the NBC site. --mc_hammark 14:09, 29 January 2010 (EST)
      • I didn't get the scripts because of the wiki. I got them because I wrote chapter 5 of Purpose, and there were a few things I needed to know before I wrote the iStory chapter. I looked at the few things I needed to know, and that's about it. I actually only read the stuff about HRG by accident, to be honest! :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:17, 29 January 2010 (EST)
  • Would these be flashbacks? Eric Roberts tweeted he'd be in the wall. Can't wait to see him again, unless it's stock footage they use after a meeting with Damien. --mc_hammark 12:23, 29 January 2010 (EST)
    • I can't say. As for Eric Roberts, I don't know if he's in the episode or not--I avoid looking at the scripts as much as possible because I'd rather watch the story unfold onscreen than read it on paper...but if Eric Roberts is Tweeting that he's on Heroes, it's not going to be archival footage. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:17, 29 January 2010 (EST)

Body Changing

I also have to agree on MiamiVolts that maybe Peter&Sylar will change bodies, maybe in some way for peter to access Sylars abilities. Or maybe Peter will take Sylar's Abilities of IA and take all of Sylars powers and the Sylar we seeing in the dreams is maybe Peter in shapeshifted Sylar. These are all speculations tough, but i hope Peter will regain multi abilities and taking IA from sylar will be the obvious way for now to regain more then one ability! Lets hope he takes IA! -- (WaterRatj) 12:18, 29 January 2010 (EST)

  • I really pray and hope they don't end up going that way, because we'll just have another season of body changing and peter will end up having multiple abilities that he doesn't even know about. Who would want that? daevon 16:28, 29 January 2010 (EST)
    • I dunno, we might finally get to get rid of Claire if he gets them. --mc_hammark 16:29, 29 January 2010 (EST)
    • True, but we all love claire deep down, somewhere. LOL. Still, what if peter accidently turns emma into gold, or disintergrates angela. No good can come from that. daevon 16:48, 29 January 2010 (EST)
    • I agree with daevon. Claire has finally shown some change and character development this season. She's getting out of the rut she's been stuck in, and I'd hate for them to find a way to kill the unkillable girl just when I'm starting to really like her for the first time since season one. On the subject of Peter and Sylar, I REALLY hope they don't go that way. It would be retreading already covered ground, for me. I like the idea of them working out their issues with each other in the stretched timeline of Sylar's nightmare, and I like the idea of Peter getting multiple abilities back (not intuitive aptitude! That would be a flashback to that horrible dark period when Peter was on a rampage! It's not good when he gets the IA!). However, body-switching would be redundant. Though the idea of him trying to make things right with Emma in somebody else's body is oddly hilarious... And I think it's important for Sylar to gain his redemption on his own, not through someone else using his body to do a good deed. --Clairesxtwin48 18:00, 29 January 2010 (EST)
      • I Want peter to get back either EM, or IA. Peter deserves it, he's always been the best with multi abilities. Also I din't say he will shapeshift into Sylar eh, maybe he will but only for briefly. -- (WaterRatj) 19:00, 29 January 2010 (EST)
        • So do i, but if Peter does become multi powered again, we'll lose newer, smarter peter and get back old, dumb peter. Then, the writers will keep finding ways to limit his abilities and it's gonna make everyone mad. Maybe, if they increase his ability to hold two, maybe three abilities at a time, then that's cool and we'll still have new peter. daevon 20:48, 29 January 2010 (EST)
          • Thank you, daevon! I agree completely! Expand Peter's powers, but I think they do need to keep SOME kind of limitation. Maybe he can only absorb the powers of people he gets to know well (which would make sense, given his new, much more intimate application of his inherent empathy), or maybe he can only take a certain number, but a limit is good. It'll challenge him to think creatively.--Clairesxtwin48 20:50, 29 January 2010 (EST)
            • If I'm honest, I'd rather they skipped generations to a new set of Heroes in the future. Or go back to a time where specials were less like they are now. Actually, I'd like to see the whole "what happened after Coyote Sands" era, formation of the company etc etc. --mc_hammark 20:52, 29 January 2010 (EST)
            • Giving peter more abilities not always have to mean he will be the dumb peter again. He should regain and be more smarter with them and use them in a good not 'dumb' way :D, maybe an upgrade, but i rather still have him his old ability back, it was his to start with :D -- (WaterRatj) 20:57, 29 January 2010 (EST)
            • Eh, I don't want them skipping out like that to reboot the show with an all-new cast plus Claire. I have a feeling it would alienate a lot of viewers (myself included), though I can see the story potential. I agree, though, that the Coyote Sands aftermath is something they need to explore. Hopefully next volume will see the return of bats@#$-crazy Alice Shaw to give that random tangent a little more depth and complexity.--Clairesxtwin48 23:25, 29 January 2010 (EST)
              • Possibly a spin off series for the company then... but that's one of the problems, the cast was meant to be everchanging to keep it fresh - that's why claude is so popular and adam and quite a few others who don't really appear that much - their stories are still interesting because its not the same plot in their life used over and over again like Sylar's. I would honestly like to see a new cast... but with the old cast as minor or recurring characters, like if HRG did set up a new company, the focus could be on the agents, sometimes bringing in help from parkman, or using molly to find targets. I'd watch that... --mc_hammark 09:37, 30 January 2010 (EST)
                • Now see, THAT I would watch! I agree, though, that a lot of the storylines have gotten stale *coughcoughCLAIREcoughcoughSYLARcoughcough* and they really need to rotate out certain characters if they're not going to do more with them. And when they kill off people with absolutely no valid reason for doing so, then it just gets unacceptable. I mean... DAPHNE!!! WHY did they do that? So, yeah. Spinoff might be a good idea. But then we'd be without Peter, which would make me sad. Aside from She Who Has Been Wiped From All Established Canon, Peter is my favorite character. Not surprising, I guess, but still. Either way, you lose out on something. Stick with the originals and you lose the freshness and beauty of the stories. Ditch the originals and create an all-new cast, and you lose beloved character. --Clairesxtwin48 18:54, 30 January 2010 (EST)
                  • I would much rather lose beloved characters (not to death though) while we still like them, rather than us getting completely bored by them and ending up hating them. --mc_hammark 19:42, 30 January 2010 (EST)
                  • This is true. There are some characters, though, that I don't think we'd have gotten sick of. For example: The Disappearing Girl or She Who Has Been Wiped From All Established Canon. Beloved characters. We wanted to see more of them. We haven't gotten to. It's criminal. --Clairesxtwin48 19:51, 30 January 2010 (EST)
                    • Maybe they should do to claire and other characters we dont like (not sylar), what they did to tracy (hide her all season and bring her back with a bang.daevon 19:53, 30 January 2010 (EST)
                      • Yay, someone else who reads Otto's reviews, his are the best. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:01, 30 January 2010 (EST)
                      • EVERYONE should read Otto's reviews! But I agree with daevon once again. It's really a shame that Tracy, who had just gotten interesting, got relegated to the GNs all season. I understand WHY, but c'mon! I love Claire and all, she's actually gotten interesting this season, but we'd like to see more of Peter, Emma, Matt, Tracy, Monica, all those other people who dropped off the face of the earth and were never seen again outside of graphic novels. --21:41, 30 January 2010 (EST)

Peter and his abilities

I hope we get Peter with all of his powers back, but I hope he retains the smarts he's been using with his sucky power. He's gotten pretty smart about the powers he uses: flight while on the run, super strength, speed and healing while saving lives, mental manipulation when facing Sylar etc.... I wish they'd give us a definitive answer whether or not he can replicate all of Sylar's powers or just one. It seems like just one, but I think it was dumb for him to choose shape-shifting in the middle of a battle so they should clarify that too: was Peter always able to pick and choose which power he got from someone with multiple abilities or did that just develop over time as his control grew and it was random before. Maybe throw in a line during Peter and Sylar interaction.--WarGrowlmon18 23:01, 29 January 2010 (EST)

  • Amen! I think that, if nothing else, his experience with the cheap knockoff version of his empathic mimicry has taught him to be smart and given him a greater degree of control over his powers than the epic!fail that was the Claude Training. If he regains his proper abilities (or any variation thereof, really), we can expect him to actually use them proactively and effectively, and NOT EXPLODE AGAIN because he'll actually be able to control it now. --Clairesxtwin48 23:27, 29 January 2010 (EST)
  • WarGrowlmon18 has a simular vision like me :D Your right! -- (WaterRatj) 11:48, 30 January 2010 (EST)