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Talk:Intuitive aptitude/Archive 1

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Sylar using ability

There's a decent capture of Sylar using his original ability on Brian here if you need one.

Psychoanalysis

Nothing worth going in the main article, yet, but Sylar's statement to Bennet (quoted in the article) implies that he can intuitively analyze human behavior, not just physical systems. --Ted C 12:02, 4 January 2007 (EST)

Nice point. Can't wait to see how Sylar's power plays itself out. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:35, 4 January 2007 (EST)
  • Sylar could also use his ability to understand how the "hunger" aspect of his power works and then find out how to neutralize it. One way this can happen appears to be through love. For example, in I Am Become Death, it appeared that the only thing that restrained his "hunger" was his love for his son, Noah. Perhaps if he can understand the dynamics of love a bit better, then he'll be able to "make love stay". --Siddhi Powers 05:42, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

Examples from Distractions

How do we mention examples of Sylar's power from Distractions? — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:31, 6 February 2007 (EST)

Unclear examples

So Sylar's power is pretty much in constant use, I'm assuming. This is a different power, one which is hard to chronicle examples. Any thoughts on how we document this power? — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:59, 6 March 2007 (EST)

  • I believe Admin suggested using the ticking sound-effect as a cue. --Ted C 13:05, 6 March 2007 (EST)
    • I dont think it was me since I dont associate the ticking with him using his power. I think the ticking is just for effect, though I think they're using it less. Personally I think his power is similar to insight for instance. Sometimes you might have a random flash of insight or other times you have to concentrate on something and then it comes to you. (Admin 13:37, 9 March 2007 (EST))
    • Yeah, but are we going to mention every time we hear the sound effect? For instance, when he's lying on the table in his cell in The Fix, we hear a tick tock, and then Sylar wakes up suddenly. Is that using his power? Or in Unexpected, when he's sneaking up on Dale, the sound effect is used again. Another example? — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:30, 6 March 2007 (EST)
      • I think in Parasite, he says "I want to see how that works", a clear reference to this ability. Soooo, I'm going to remove the question mark from the checklist since no one has yet to even reference this particular episode. But the conversation of other episodes is needed. I just think in Parasite, he definitively mentions it like he does in Six Months Ago.--Baldbobbo 13:08, 9 March 2007 (EST)
        • You're right, that's a very clear example. And he and Bennet talk about it in Distractions, but I can't think of other clear uses of the power. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:36, 9 March 2007 (EST)
          • As to the question of the sound effect: I've always gotten the impression that it goes with the character, not just the use of his original power. It seems more like whenever he's being sneaky, or whenever he's dominant in a scene (Beeman talks about this a lot in the commentaries), his "theme" takes over the soundtrack, and his theme is the clockwork sounds.
            • That's exactly how I always saw it, too. (Admin 14:04, 9 March 2007 (EST))
              • Yes, that's kind of the point I was trying to make, indirectly. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:22, 9 March 2007 (EST)

LOL, Wikipedia

  • Wikipedia is now using "intuitive aptitude" to describe Sylar's power. Considering that we're just a bunch of lowbrow plagiarists to them, I find this highly ironic.--Hardvice (talk) 17:14, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
    • Yeah, good suggestion, Hardvice. It seems pretty pervasive, now. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:10, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
      • Haha Heroe(talk) 00:33, 24 March 2007 (EDT)
      • Wow, I actually totally forgot that was my idea. Now I feel famous. Still, I'd prefer it had my comment not ended in a preposition.--Hardvice (talk) 00:42, 24 March 2007 (EDT)
        • Aw, prepositions are perfectly good words for sentences to end with. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:49, 24 March 2007 (EDT)
          • Right. I just didn't learn that it was merely a snobby usage "rule" until well after I'd browbeaten myself into avoiding it.--Hardvice (talk) 13:53, 24 March 2007 (EDT)
          • I saw what you did there. I just eschewed mentioning it in favor of talking about my favorite subject: me.--Hardvice (talk) 16:06, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Tactics

I wonder if Sylar's intuitive aptitude helps him solve problems like "how to fight an invisible adversary". When Peter disappeared in .07%, Sylar came up with an effective counter tactic using available resources very quickly. --Ted C 17:42, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

  • I think that that was just plain quick-thinking, rather than his intuitive aptitude.--Piemanmoo 18:06, 25 April 2007 (EDT)
    • The problem, of course, is how would you know the difference? In most circumstances, Sylar's intuitive aptitude would be indistinguishable from "quick thinking". Still, he seems to adapt to virtually any setback with uncanny speed. --Ted C 16:24, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

Examples

I don't see how Sylar's comment about seeing how something works is an example since he didn't steal his ability.

On a side note, shouldn't every power theft be an example of this ability? We don't know the mechanics of how he steals abilities, but it's derived from his intuitive aptitude? --Bob 03:22, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

  • Figuring out how things work is what the power is really about. As far as we know, he used his power to figure out how to steal other powers. --Ted C 10:24, 18 May 2007 (EDT)
    • Right. Intuitive aptitude (or the ability to have intuition) is not necessarily the same as power theft, though I'm sure they're either related or Sylar used IA to figure out how to steal powers. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:12, 18 May 2007 (EDT)
      • I'm thinking he can use his super hearing --Rockyrojas88 07:52, May 20, 2007

Weird....

According to the most recent CBR interview, they haven't revelead what Sylar's original power was. Are the writers on crack or something :) --Heroe!(talk) (contribs) 19:57, 31 May 2007 (EDT)

  • When the writers said that it was "a mystery yet to be solved", I think they were talking less about his original power, and more about his ability to acquire the powers of others. RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:52, 31 May 2007 (EDT)

I'm beginning to wonder if intuitive aptitude might not be Sylar's "original ability" after all. Given that he also apparently has the same power as Peter (empathic mimicry), I think he acquired the "intuitive aptitude" from someone else without realizing it, the way Peter's precognitive dreaming occurred all through Season One without being explained until Season Three. It's most likely that Gabriel's adoptive mother or father had it -- and of the two I'd guess his father since he was a great watch-fixer too.--Cosmic AC 22:40, 19 November 2008 (EST)

He doesn't have empathic mimicry. And what CBR was this? Could somebody post a link to it?--ERROR 16:03, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

Skill

The following is a comment on Telekinesis: "Sylar has demonstrated far more advanced telekinetic abilities than Brian, probably because Sylar has actively developed the power." (emphasis added) While his practice with using his first acquired power has certainly increased his proficiency, I submit that the whole "knows how things work" aspect of his innate power is what makes Sylar so scary. (Next to his proclivity to exencephalate people.) Not only does his intuitive aptitude give him the ability to acquire others' powers, it helps him understand how to use and control them quickly. For a further example, I refer the interested reader to how quickly he was able to start painting the future and make and control the radioactive puff-balls after scooping out Sprage's brain, while Ted himself and Peter seemed to have some issues. -- FissionChips 23:28, 3 October 2007 (EDT)

Power Limitation

Sylar seems to be limited by his recent injuries. Although he attempted to take a new power, it is not clear whether or not he will be able to utilize the new power once he heals. Did he fail to take on the new power, or is he simply hampered from using it while injured? --Wolfeman 18:59, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Yeah this is weird because if the reason for his loss of powers is the Shanti virus (maybe) then he shouldn't have been able to use his Intuitive Aptitude to check Candice's brain out, and then know how to use it. --SomeoneImportant 21:44, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Well he did do it like 10 times before that you know its like writing your name with a pen except theres no ink.He could of still looked into Candice's Brain just not gain the ability. --Sylarptnt0 18:10, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Ability: Incongruous Definition

The current definition of Sylar's ability is: "..to analyze complex systems and intuitively understand how they work without special education or training." The question is, does Sylar's ability of Intuitive aptitude allow him to analyze/examine complex systems, or does it allow him to intuitively understand/grasp complex systems without having to analyze them?. Analyzing refers to a logic process (i.e. the detailed examination of the elements or structure of something), while intuition can be defined as a form of instinctive knowing or direct cognition without the use of reasoning processes. Any thoughts? Siddhi Powers 00:07, 1 February 2008 (EST)

  • I think you have a good point but Intuitive Aptitude is used in Heroes Evolution on primatechpaper.com Jason Garrick 15:41, 14 February 2008 (EST)
    • I don't think Siddhi was suggesting a different name, but I think it was a question of the exact nature of how his power works and whether the description of the power is accurate. Based on Sylar's comments in Six Months Ago including his realization about how Brian Davis's power worked, it seems more like it's an intuitive understanding without requiring (at least at the conscious level) an analysis of the system. Now I suppose he could be performing a rapid analysis at the subconscious level... which to me does seem like a potential explanation of how "intuition" itself works. (Admin 17:17, 14 February 2008 (EST))
      • No name changes, but I still think that there's a definite misinterpretation of the term "Intuitive aptitude".

Take for instance the definition of "intuition", as given on Wikipedia:

"Intuition ..[is] usually connected to the meaning "ability to sense or know immediately without reasoning," and is often regarded as a divine or prophetic power...

In psychology, intuition means: Intuition (knowledge) - understanding without apparent effort, quick and ready insight seemingly independent of previous experiences or empirical knowledge." - wikipedia

Now, consider the definition given for "analysis":

"Analysis (from Greek ἀνάλυσις, "a breaking up") is the process of breaking a complex topic or substance into smaller parts to gain a better understanding of it. The technique has been applied in the study of mathematics and logic since before Aristotle, though analysis as a formal concept is a relatively recent development...." - wikipedia

Here we can see that the conflict arises because the terms "intuition" and "analysis" have essentially two completely different meanings. Namely, "intuition" means, "to know something immediately without reason or previous experience". While "analysis" means, "to examine, break up into smaller bits, pull apart, dissect". Therefore, I would suggest that the meaning for "Intuitive aptitude" be switched up for something more in along the lines of the following examples:

  • "the ability to understand the dynamics of causality and complex systems without education or training."
  • "the ability to acquire immediate comprehension of complex systems independent of empirical knowledge or reasoning."
  • "the ability to comprehend the nature of any system without training or analysis."

One other point though that I think is worth mentioning is that although Sylar's ability may not require the use of reason or previous experience during its application, it is still possible that the ability is initially developed through first learning how to analyze system dynamics and the interrelationship between parts of a whole. However, once the fundamental aspect of the ability has been developed, it can then be applied to anything.

Thoughts, anyone?

--Siddhi Powers 04:40, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

  • I've made what I think to be an appropriate update to the power's definition. --Ted C 11:49, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

Down at the bottom it has that Sylar had books on Brain examination in season 1 when Mohinder and Eden enter Sylar appartment so he would of studied on the brain, it is only watches that he did not read about. 50000JH

When did Peter obtain the ability

  • Rather than switch it back and forth, let's open discussions. When Future Gabriel says 'You have it now,' he could have meant the hunger, not the power (especially since he follows with 'I'm so sorry'). But when Peter returns to the present, he tells Sylar that he went to the future and took his power, and Sylar says: 'You took my power?' Of course, this casts a whole new light on Peter's abilities, unless we interpret 'took' to mean 'figured out how to use.' Thoughts? Stevehim 23:25, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
    • Sylar also said that he can't die, but it's been noted several times that the person can die with a bullet in the back of the head. So I think it's a misunderstanding on Sylar's part (kind of ironic), but Peter had the ability from the start, but I think since he never used it, he never had that hunger. So I agree that FSylar was referring to the hunger. As for present Sylar, maybe he's pointing out that Peter never took it from him, he merely copied it. Who knows. This hurts my head, I'm going to go drink now.--Bob (talk) 00:03, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
      • But why would we take the word of other characters over that of Sylar, as to whether a bullet in the back of the head (or decapitation) would work? They're both canonical sources that seem to directly contradict each other, and I'm not sure why we'd believe one over the other. The whole regeneration thing is a huge plothole/inconsistency at this point, IMO. Stevehim 08:53, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
        • In the immortal words of Joe Pokaski and Aron Coleite, "Claire indeed can be killed, as can Adam and Peter and Sylar, too. Decapitation does a pretty good job. We think Sylar was just fucking with Claire." -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:36, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
          • Yes, but that's not a canon source, and we have several that are, stating otherwise. I'm not even saying they're mistaken or misleading us...just that they've created a clear inconsistency and are making it worse with each week. Stevehim 16:33, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

When did Peter absorb it??

This has been reverted over and over again, so I'll set it up here. Peter was exposed to the ability in Homecoming, but did not use it until I Am Become Death. The way his ability works, however, is that he absorbs abilities he is exposed to, but we don't know which ones he's aware of (as in confirmed absorbed abilities) until he uses them. So, to clarify, when he's exposed to the ability, he absorbs it (according to Mohinder's comment to Nathan). He absorbed the ability in Homecoming, but did not use it until Future Gabriel explained it to him. Future Peter just phrased it weird to Peter.--Bob (talk) 23:27, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

  • Ok. I didn't pay attention to the edits to the page. --Ice Vision (talk) 23:30, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
  • I'm going with he got it in Homecoming and the writers just messed up this last episode (see above for the problem quote). Stevehim 23:39, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
    • Guys, canon first, remember? I'll quote Peter "I went to the future, and I took your ability."

If Peter had the ability all along, he wouldn't have needed to stay in the future to confront Sylar about getting it from him. Duh. TheEvilNoob 19:55, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

  • Attempted some clarity on the line about absorption --Matchu 19:59, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

"I went to the future, and I took your ability." The thing is Peter did NOT take it, that requires forcibly making Gabriel do something he didn't want to do. Gabriel willingly showed Peter how the power worked. Peter had it all along. --Snow Leapord 13:43, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

Suggested "Intuative aptitude "picture change

Since the original picture of Sylar holding his watch to his ear is pretty vague, (but also about all we had until this point); shouldn't we change the pic for this power to be this new one: Powers Peter fix the Sylar watch.jpg, which clearly for the first time actually shows the power being demonstrated visibly? --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/9/2008 12:49 (EST)

  • Actually, this image is more of an example of the telekinesis he used to fix the gears after understanding how the watch worked. Though if you saw a watch with broken gears, it'd be pretty obvious how to fix it even without intuitive aptitude. ;) (Admin 12:51, 9 October 2008 (EDT))
    • I think the picture of Sylar looking at Claire's brain would fit nicely. While some of you would say that that suggests that his ability only works on brains, the current image suggest it only works on objects, so it should fit fine. =p--Riddler 13:11, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

Time and Method of Absorbtion

Near the bottom of the "Talk:Peter Petrelli" page, I wrote a long explanation of how IA was clearly only absorbed in IABD, then realized that it applies to this page as well. In addition, there should really some mention of how this ability is able to be absorbed/manifested/used, since Peter was unable to until Sylar helped him fix the watch and start using the power. Darmenos 21:40, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

Absorption by peter

My fellow peeps of the heroes wiki, we have always gone by the golden rule that "canon comes first." I say we follow this here too, and use Peter's quote "I went into the future, and I took your ability." If Peter absorbed it he wouldn't have needed to go to the future my friends TheEvilNoob 20:54, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

  • He didn't need to go to the future to get the ability, he already had it. FPeter took him there to show him what was wrong with the world so he could fix it and not make mistakes like FPeter did, FPeter said so. He only needed to learn how to use it. His whole I took your ability was being affected by his Hunger and his hatred for Sylar, because he certainly didn't take it, Gabriel willingly showed him how to use it and that is all that happened. Thus your whole cannon stance is invalidated, you have to not only take what is said and put into the context of what actually occurs. Also if we are going to go by that speech, then we also have to go by what Sylar said shortly after, he called his power The Hunger, thus the article's name is wrong. --Snow Leapord 13:41, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

What you are saying seems more like an interpretation rather than straight facts. Right now Peter's quote is the most reliable source right now and it should be used until the story is unfolded more. And Sylar never said that it was called the Hunger. He said with the power comes a "hunger" to learn more and more. And of all things why didn't Future Peter learn it himself?--Guy in a floppy green cap 01:58, 2 November 2008 (EST)

FPeter said so himself he made mistakes. He wanted Peter to avoid those mistakes and to do so he needed to put the big picture together using IA. --Snow Leapord 11:53, 2 November 2008 (EST)

  • He definitely had the hunger before season 3. In season 2 after that irish guy shoots peter (can't remember his name), peter starts to telekinetically choke him. While peter is choking the irish guy he looks like he's having the time of his life. Later peter states that he wanted to kill him and that their must be a darker side to him he can't control. So he had intuitive aptitude in the second season and because of the writers strike it became a dropped plot point.
    • Make sure you add your signature when you add a comment. Back on topic, Peter is or was an empath he felt the emotions related to the original user of the ability when he used said ability. He wanted to kill him because when he absorbed it from Sylar, Sylar wanted to kill. When he used phasing he wanted to escape, etc. These are unrelated to IA, Peter didn't reproduce IA until Gabriel taught him to access it.--Steely McBeam - (talk) 16:38, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
      • I'm new here so I'm not really sure how to add my signature, or where it is. Sorry. But I'd say he was accessing his IA and it just became a dropped plot point. And I'd say he doesn't really access his emotions as much as you think. He was able to heal without remembering claire, and he was able to shoot lightning without remembering elle. That's a whole different discussion though.

Does Arthur have this ability?

I very much think that he does as he said he absorbed all of Peter's abilities. I always knew that Peter had to lose this ability. I doubt Arthur would have to use it anyway and i'm sure he would be able to control it subconsciously as he was able to use Peter's lightning seconds after absorbing it.--ACDC1989 07:04, 22 October 2008 (EDT)


Rename: Neuro Cognitive Deficit

  • It says so in Mohinder's Mozaic list... the fourth one... NiveKJ13 18:03, 2 November 2008 (EST)

Mozaic file.jpg

    • It says "Neuro cognitive deficits." Most likely referring to actual mental defects rather than Sylar's ability. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 18:04, 2 November 2008 (EST)
      • I'm pretty sure I argued this for the Haitian's ability at some point. It's just speculative to decide which it's for.--Riddler 18:06, 2 November 2008 (EST)

Clearly this power's article needs a revamping

After tonight's episode I am not longer sure what his power even is anymore. --Snow Leapord 21:47, 17 November 2008 (EST)

  • Not really. The only new thing is that understanding the emotions and thought processes of a person can allow Sylar to obtain their abilities in the same way that understanding their brain can. Ability Theft, however, will certainly require some revamping.~~ Darmenos 21:47, 17 November 2008 (EDT)
    • Sylar used Empathy to absorb Elle's ability, much like how Peter's ability works. It clearly shows that in fact all 3 have the same power which is: "Ability absorption". They just all had different ways of accessing it.

- Arthur can steal abilities - Sylar could understand how things worked - Peter empathicly absorbed

    • Sylar's ability evolved a new function that allows it to work similarly to Peter's. This does NOT mean that they have the same ability. Is Telepathy the same ability as Persuasion because they can both force the user's will onto another? Function is just as important as result in the naming of abilities. Being the same as Arthur's ability is poorly based speculation at best. ~~ Darmenos (EDT)

But as shown, abilities can evolve, and Sylar has shown that he can access the ability the way Peter does. Which means he probably could take abilities like Arthur does as well (with practice). --Powermimic 01:25, 18 November 2008 (EST)

  • Speculation. Interesting, but belongs on the theories page. ~~ Darmenos (EDT)
      • What evidence do we have that this was an aspect of an evolving intuitive aptitude and not him having empathic mimicry? We have almost the same exact canonical evidence that we do for Peter (gaining powers without stealing them, the term 'empathy' being used), so I'm not sure why we'd consider it an extension of Sylar's original power as opposed to giving him a new one, especially considering Arthur's comment of 'you've had it all along.' --Stevehim 01:57, 18 November 2008 (EST)
      • I don't think it's part of intuitive aptitude, because this new way is the same we've been told about Peter. They maybe have different abilities but it seems Sylar also has Empathic mimicry. --Powermimic 03:00, 18 November 2008 (EST)
      • Empathy is not the same as empathic mimicry. We all know that everyone's powers are connected to their emotions, and Sylar just analyzed Elle's emotional state, allowing him to feel empathy for her. That let him learn just as much about her power as he would have from reading her brain. Basically, all we've learned from tonight is that Sylar can now take powers by deeply analyzing people,. --Piemanmoo 03:34, 18 November 2008 (EST)
        • I'm not sure I agree. The term 'empathic mimicry,' was never mentioned on the show itself, and so isn't canon either (though it is near-canon). I think the name was originally derived from similar comments (by Claude and Charles), and there was a debate for awhile about calling it 'empathy.' --Stevehim 04:42, 18 November 2008 (EST)
          • After watching the show again... Sylar was using his ability to "understand how they work" through empathy. Peter does the same but does it passively, that's why he is always absorbing because he's unaware his "connecting" to everyone. That's just the way he is. --Powermimic 19:49, 18 November 2008 (EST)
            • I'm not even sure empathic mimicry and intuitive aptitude are even two different powers anymore. They may be the same power with different ways of accessing it (ie - power absorption minus the stealing part). Arthur "teaches" Sylar to access his empathy to gain powers without killing, which is essentially the same exact thing that Peter does. --Stevehim 20:02, 18 November 2008 (EST)
              • That's what got to me, but absorbing doesn't really have anything to do with understanding 'how things work'. --Powermimic 20:06, 18 November 2008 (EST)
                • Unless 'understanding how things work' was merely the mechanism for the power absorption (similar to how empathy was the mechanism for Peter, but the real ability is duplicating the powers of others). I really hope they delve into this a bit more in the next few episodes. :) --Stevehim 20:12, 18 November 2008 (EST)
                  • I really think Sylar just absorbed intuitive aptitude from someone he was close to at an early age, and his original power is exactly the same as Peter's. That or they're exactly the same ability with exactly the same method of access -- understanding "how things work" could easily be extended to understanding how people are feeling, and the difference then would lie in the way Peter and Sylar grew up; Sylar was constantly pushed into doing stuff by his adoptive mother while Angela seems to have doted on Peter (even though Nathan "demanded more" attention). Peter also became a nurse (working with people) while Sylar ended up fixing clocks (working with things). If "intuitive aptitude" really is part of Sylar's original ability, that would make a lot of sense...

On a side note: “In a previous BTE interview, it was stated we would see in ‘Villains’ why Sylar was able to keep his telepathy despite being infected with the Shanti virus. However, we didn't seem to get any explanation last night. The only conclusion I can deduce is that it's all in his head, and somehow related to the extreme amount of guilt he felt over Brian.”

Kyle, we assume you mean telekenisis, and not telepathy and if so, you nailed it. Brian was Sylar’s first kill and his power is connected to emotional empathy. In fact, we’ll be exploring that very sentiment tonight. In chains. With electricity. --Riddler 07:56, 18 November 2008 (EST)

        • New BTE says EM and IA and possibly Arthur's ability too, are all the same power... --Action Figure 00:06, 25 November 2008 (EST)
  • Well they can "absorb abilities", so yes they kind of have the same power, just manifested differently. --Powermimic 05:10, 25 November 2008 (EST)

A proposition: See Talk:Mimicry

Due to recent events in the series, I have brought up a proposal (relating to this page) at Talk:Mimicry, if folks could take a look at that. Ricard Desi 16:19, 25 November 2008 (EST)