Talk:Portal:Abilities: Difference between revisions
imported>MiamiVolts |
imported>Jenx222 |
||
| (83 intermediate revisions by 25 users not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{| border="2" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="4" class="wikitable" |
|||
SO I was getting set to take Peter and Sylar off all the powers, and it just occurred to me that's gonna leave "cryokinesis" as "unknown" again, which seems wrong since there ''is'' a known user. Any ideas on how to make it clearer within the portal that we're listing only the original character? --[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 14:57, 20 February 2007 |
|||
|- |
|||
*How about just a big disclaimer at the top that says "Only original holders of powers are listed. Those that have duplicated powers are not listed here." — [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 19:31, 20 February 2007 (EST) |
|||
! Archives |
|||
! Archived Topics |
|||
== Engineer == |
|||
|- |
|||
| align=center | [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1|February 2007-November 2007]] || <small>{{ArchiveLinks|Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1}}</small> |
|||
* Any reason not to include the [[Engineer]] as an example of induced radioactivity even though he never actually aired? We do have articles on him plus the unaired episode is supposed to be included on the season one dvd set when it comes out. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 12:47, 5 March 2007 (EST)) |
|||
|} |
|||
**Mostly to clean up the page. Every other power only lists one person per power. Plus, since he's a cut character, it's kind of an iffy judgment call. If you want to put him back, that's fine. I was just trying to streamline the page and follow suit with how he is now listed on [[induced radioactivity]] (in the notes). — [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 13:22, 5 March 2007 (EST) |
|||
{{tocright|300px}} |
|||
== Superfluous space == |
|||
Right now, only "Space-time manipulation" and "Electronic data transception" are taking up more than one line for the power name. It would look a lot more succinct, I think, if we shortened these two names and took out extra whitespace. We could change Hana's power (on this page only) to just "Data transception". I know it's not as descriptive, but it's just for this page, and it will link to the full description on [[Electronic data transception]].... Hiro's power is a bit more tricky -- we could use one of his shorter power names ("teleportation" or "time travel" for instance). I know that's very limiting, but again, it's just for this page. We could also just put "Space-time", or "Bending space-time" might fit too.... Or we can just leave the big cells as they are. Thoughts? — [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 12:49, 5 March 2007 (EST) |
|||
* I like it as is. It doesn't really bother me that they take up two lines, and calling Hiro's power "Teleportation" or "Time Travel" even just on this page would be a lot worse in my opinion.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 13:01, 5 March 2007 (EST) |
|||
**It kind of bugs me that there's so much space, but I'll deal. I agree, though, I can't think of a good solution for Hiro's power. — [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 13:46, 5 March 2007 (EST) |
|||
***Spacetime Control. and for Hana put Digital Transception.--[[User:DawnTreader|DawnTreader]] 03:26, 31 October 2007 (EDT) |
|||
== Examples variable == |
|||
Weird. I didn't think there was an examples variable anymore, but the ''examples'' link was just not showing up for me. I added it "examples=" and it showed up in the preview. When I took it off, the ''examples'' link was gone. It's showing up now, so it's kinda moot ... but weird, eh? — [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 14:31, 16 March 2007 (EDT) |
|||
* Since the content of the page itself didn't change--just the results of one of the templates--it probably just showed you the cached page. It saw no edits to the page or its included templates and assumed that was correct.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 14:55, 16 March 2007 (EDT) |
|||
**...but it went back after I took it off, which is the part that really gets me. ... Are you saying I just need to do a shift-F5 cache to see it? I'll try that next time. Thanks. — [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 15:13, 16 March 2007 (EDT) |
|||
***Well, yes, that ''is'' weird. Still, there's two separate caches going on; Mediawiki caches the generated pages (which I don't really know much about, except that it can create issues with randomized content) and your browser caches visited pages. I'd imagine it's just a combination of the two, though I'd be hard pressed to come up with an explanation.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 15:44, 16 March 2007 (EDT) |
|||
****Thanks ... I won't press you too hard. — [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 15:50, 16 March 2007 (EDT) |
|||
== Oneiromancy == |
|||
Sorry if I'm bringing up something that has already been resolved. But shouldn't Peter's dreams be treated somewhere besides "Empathic Mimicry"? Even though they aren't perfect precognitions, they still seem to convey knowledge to him via extra-sensory means. In addition, it seems like Charles Devaux exhibited the same ability. And since that occurrence is the only canonical evidence of Devaux being an evolved human, there should be a place for it, especially since the groundwork is being laid for the audience to learn about his significance in earlier developments regarding evolved humans. The term "oneiromancy" applies more the ability to interpret dreams prophectically than the ability to have prophetic dreams. But I think it covers both. And it might be a good way to capture what Peter does and what Devaux did without causing confusion between that and Isaac's precognition.--[[User:E rowe|E rowe]] 18:06, 25 March 2007 (EDT) |
|||
*Don't be sorry, you have legitimate questions. Peter's visions are mentioned briefly on [[empathic mimicry]]--I personally don't think they should be there, but I'm not so objected to them there, so I haven't removed them. There hasn't really been much talk about it--[[Talk:Empathic mimicry/Archive 1#The dreams and visions... my new theory.|this]] is all I could find. His dreams are dealt with in much more depth on the [[Peter's visions]] article. As for the part about [[Charles Deveaux]], I would say it sounds very reasonable, but it's still a [[Theories:Events#Peter's visions|theory]] or a [[Spoiler:Upcoming episodes|spoiler]]. Does that answer your question? — [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 18:25, 25 March 2007 (EDT) |
|||
*My thoughts about oneiromancy--isn't that more of a practice that people actually use today, and less of a superpower? To me, it would be like saying somebody who can predict the future based on the stars has the power of "astrology". I'm not sure that oneiromancy is a power, but rather an actual system or study (no matter how dubious it may be). — [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 18:29, 25 March 2007 (EDT) |
|||
**You're right about oneiromancy. But the people who do it (or did it in cultures where it was valued) believe and act like it works. As far as they're concerned it's a supernatural ability. I would say the same about astrology. The fact that we may think it's all hokum in the real world shouldn't stop us from accepting it as a power in the world of heroes. There are people around who practice telekinesis (*cough* yeah right...fake), but that shouldn't stop us from naming the power in Heroes that, just because it really works in Heroes but it doesn't in real life. But with Devaux, it's not a spoiler is it? I mean his daughter said he dreamed of flying with Peter in an already aired episode. So I would view that as a canonical reference to his experiencing essentially the same kind of dream as Peter's on at least that occasion if no other.--[[User:E rowe|E rowe]] 18:36, 25 March 2007 (EDT) |
|||
***Good points, though I'd still call it something like "dream interpretation" since "oneiromancy" isn't a well-known term, in my opinion. Regardless, we're talking about a hypothetical power. I don't think we're ready to say that just because Charles had a dream, that now he's an evolved human. He very well may be, but we'll need more confirmation. Afterall, we never said that was Peter's power, and Peter experienced dreams from the first episode. As for Deveaux, I think being portrayed by the man who once was "Shaft" is even more of a power, but that's just me... :) — [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 18:51, 25 March 2007 (EDT) |
|||
****Well, I just checked the OED, and it seems that oneiromancy is limited to prophetic dream interpretation rather than prophetic dreaming. Same for oneiroscopy. Unfortunately, even in the OED there isn't a whole lot on either term. So, I agree, those aren't ideal names here. But if others agree, I tend to think it should be a separately named power and that its canonical occurrences include that of Devaux as well as those of Peter. These occurrences are not a theory or spoiler; they are from canon sources. Something like suggesting that Peter got the power from Devaux via mimicry would be a mere theory. I'm still up in the air about the right name.--[[User:E rowe|E rowe]] 18:55, 25 March 2007 (EDT) |
|||
*****The trouble is, there's too little we know about these dreams. It's possible Charles had a power, or it's possible Peter picked up the power from somebody else and used it with Charles the way Sanjog used his powers with Mohinder. We can't even be 100% sure it really is a separate power, and not merely an aspect of Peter's power (it's likely, but far from certain). For that matter, it may not even be a power ... it would require some really awful writing, but it's possible they're just dreams. I just can't see the advantage of locking in a name for a possible power we know next to nothing about, including the possessor, the effects, and the limitations. Even if the article itself isn't conjecture, everything of value we could say within it would be. I think [[Peter's visions]] is adequate for now: it details what we've seen without making any assumptions as to the cause, source, veracity, or meaning, all of which would be speculation.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 20:37, 25 March 2007 (EDT) |
|||
==Teleportation,clairvoyance== |
|||
*Shouldn't we have a section for Other about powers the [[Chandra]] mentioned. [[User:Jason Garrick|Jason Garrick]] 18:40, 13 April 2007 (EDT) |
|||
** Hmm. I like that idea, except not much can really be said about them other than "Chandra mentions it in [[Chandra's journal|his journal]]". [[User:Heroe|<span style="color:green">Heroe!</span>]]<small>[[User talk:Heroe|<span style="color:#000000">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:53, 13 April 2007 (EDT) |
|||
*** Plus, it's not really clear if they're different powers or just different names for known powers. For that matter, since they're from the journal, which predates any of Chandra's contacts with ''confirmed'' evolved humans, it's not even clear if they exist.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 19:10, 13 April 2007 (EDT) |
|||
****That also goes for "Dynamic Camouflage" from the [[Genesis Files]]. I think mentioning them on their appropriate pages is enough since, well, that's all we know about them. — [[User:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>RyanGibsonStewart</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryangibsonstewart|<font color=#0147FA>talk</font>]]) 20:47, 13 April 2007 (EDT) |
|||
== Lead Images == |
|||
I'm feeling torn regarding a few of the lead issues on this page. On the one hand, I'm glad to see that the lead images in the portals are matching the lead images in the power pages themselves. On the other hand, there's something that strikes me funny to see a power a person demonstrating a power, but their name is not listed in the cell. For instance, the image of Sylar performing telekinesis is beautiful. However, it seems odd to have a picture of Sylar in a cell that reads "Telekinesis (Brian Davis)". Same goes for electromagnetism. The agent and patient are correctly listed as original holders of the power, yet we don't see them on this page. Am I the only one who breaks a sweat thinking about such trivial matters? :) -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 02:41, 17 October 2007 (EDT) |
|||
* I'm with you on the Sylar one ... it's a better image, but it doesn't match the cell too well. But I'll take Peter over the other two because it's an episodic shot. I'm weird like that. That said, I think overall I like the portal matching the pages.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 02:44, 17 October 2007 (EDT) |
|||
* One option one be to remove the link for the original holders. It's not really necessary information on ''this'' page, and it could make the cells a good deal smaller, which is not a bad idea since this page is a bit long for a portal. It would also be helpful with these multiple-holders powers (what do we do when we meet a football team who can all fly?)--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 02:45, 17 October 2007 (EDT) |
|||
** [http://heroeswiki.com/index.php?title=Portal:Powers&oldid=107531 Here's] an example of what it would look like without holders. I vastly prefer it, myself.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 02:51, 17 October 2007 (EDT) |
|||
*** To quote Jennifer Coolidge in ''Best in Show'', "Yah, me too." -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 02:54, 17 October 2007 (EDT) |
|||
**** OMG I am watching ''Waiting for Guffman'' as we speak.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 02:55, 17 October 2007 (EDT) |
|||
* For my own part when I look at the page I focus on the images and don't even look at the names, so it never really occurred to me. On one hand it's a Powers portal so the holder of the power isn't as important; it's just supplemental information. On the other hand I can see how it might seem odd to show someone using a power who's not listed below it. Personally, since it's the powers portal I'd rather see the portal image match the image we have on the corresponding power page. It seems more consistent to me and makes it easier to pick which image belongs on the portal, but I can't say that I have a strong opinion one way or the other. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 02:48, 17 October 2007 (EDT)) |
|||
** I don't mind the difference, actually. I'm with you on that it shows Brian Davis' name (oh lord, singular possessive ah!) and Sylar's picture is there, it can cause confusion. But as for the lead of the power page itself, I think that whatever shows the '''best''' or most aesthetic demonstration of the ability should be the lead, such as Sylar with the glass. For invisibility, I think Peter has better demonstrations of actually turning invisible, whereas Claude has done it once or twice, but we just see him "visible" most of the time. So for me, I don't mind having different pictures, but I'm with you in that the pic on the portal should match the name.--[[User:Baldbobbo|Bob]] <span style="font-size: 7pt;">([[User talk:Baldbobbo|Talk]])</span> 02:49, 17 October 2007 (EDT) |
|||
***Thanks for your candidness, boys. Removing the name would make this ever-growing portal a bit smaller, and would solve all problems. The name is not necessary to the concept of the portal. I'd remove it. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 02:52, 17 October 2007 (EDT) |
|||
****Always the voice of reason. Good idea.--[[User:Baldbobbo|Bob]] <span style="font-size: 7pt;">([[User talk:Baldbobbo|Talk]])</span> 02:56, 17 October 2007 (EDT) |
|||
== Original Holders of Abilities? == |
|||
Sorry for being a little obvious but i noticed that the original holders of the abilities were removed from the box. I was just curious on why they were removed and I thought that they should be placed back there. They didn't seem to bother anyone so i see no harm in someone bringing them back. |
|||
* The portal was getting really huge. Removing them saved space and also saved the trouble we're running into from some powers having lots of "original" holders and some having only one. It's not really necessary information on the portal itself, which is really just a list of links to articles when you get down to it.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 18:01, 23 October 2007 (EDT) |
|||
** i have a suggestion for the problem of space on this page. although it would make it one step more difficult to find a single power, why not classify powers into groups. at this point i think that peter and monica can be grouped into a classification of mimicry. i think that Matt, His dad, The Haitian, Charlie, Betty (aka Candice), and Charles can be grouped into mental manipulation. elemental manipulation would be Elle, Sylar (the Freezing power), Meredith, and Maarten. Electronic Manipulation would be Hana and Micah. Body manipulation would be Claire, and Nikki (or Jessica depending on who you think has the super strength). having the powers grouped like that would allow for a smaller portal page with a article page for the group that would have links down to the articles for the individual powers. just a thought i had while discussing some other stuff elsewhere.--[[User:DawnTreader|DawnTreader]] 03:39, 31 October 2007 (EDT) |
|||
==Whoah== |
|||
I didn't think we needed to make a global move from "powers" to "abilities". I think it's probably OK, but does anybody want to weigh in on this?--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 15:53, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
* I'll start: my biggest concern with "abilities" is that it doesn't convey that these are superhuman abilities. I have lots of abilities. I'm able to bake a pretty decent pie, for example. I wouldn't want "piekinesis" included on this portal, though.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 15:56, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
**I'm glad you said that. I almost feel badly for exerting my opinion on the word. Both words have been used in canon sources, and really can be used interchangably. I personally prefer "Ability", but that's just me. There's no reason to change everything on the site, I agree. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 16:02, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
*** I agree, this was being discussed on "[[Talk:List of abilities]]". It was originally just powers, then a couple people chimed in about changing it to "Lists of..." and pointed out that "abilities" was better for the case of evolved abilities that people don't want, which they didn't think should be called powers. I kind of disagree, and noted that...then I saw that the change was going global. Oh well. My opinion is that for consistancy it should be one or the other. Since I appear to be outvoted, I'm assisting in the changeover.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 16:06, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
****Sorry guys... I thought as we changed one, it would be silly to have "Powers" in some part of the site, and "Abilities" in another....--{{User:Lost Soul/sig}} 16:07, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
***** True, any chance an admin or two can revert the edits and change it to "List of powers", etc., for consistency?--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 16:09, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
***** There are some contexts in which it just makes more sense to leave it "powers", like on the character pages. If the section is just labeled "abilities", or the infobox labeled "Known abilities:", then we're going to get things like "watching porn" on [[Ando]]. Really, it depends on whether the context makes it clear that we're talking about superhuman abilities. Also, I just noticed that some of the character pages are labeled "Ability" and some are labeled "Abilities". We should choose one or the other and stick with it, if we do decide to change them.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 16:10, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
****** I think if we're calling them abilities we should make the change consistently and rename it on the character pages. If calling them "abilities" isn't a clear enough term then we shouldn't use it. Perhaps call it "Special abilities" or "Evolved abilities", but I do feel the term "ability" should be used over "power" if it's being changed elsewhere. If it's not good enough to be used everywhere then we'd be better off falling back to "power" which was good enough to be used everywhere (though I personally feel "ability" or variations of it could be used everywhere as well) ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 18:15, 19 November 2007 (EST)) |
|||
******* I agree. I updated the character pages which were changed to refer to them as "evolved human abilities", which is clearer. Now, depending on what we decide, we can either change everything back to power or proceed with changes to ability, but in the meantime everything is at least accurate.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 18:18, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
******** Though I generally prefer "abilities" over "powers", there are definitely instances in which one is better than the other, and neither is superior than the other. I ''don't'' think that there needs to be consistency in using one word or the other in this case. On the show, both terms (and their variants, like "superpowers" and "extraordinary abilities") have been used interchangeably. I have no problem using them interchangeably, too. Of course, there are times we need to be consistent--like if the top of the bar on [[template:power]] points to [[Portal:Abilities]], then it should read "Abilities" not "Powers". Also, the titles of articles should be consistent (Maya's ability and Alejandro's ability, or Maya's power and Alejandro's power, but not Maya's ability and Alejandro's power). But generally, I don't see a problem using both terms somewhat interchangeably, particularly in summaries and descriptions. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 18:41, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
********* I think we're pretty much on the same page here. We don't need to change it in summaries and descriptions, however in places where it's used as a term (i.e. infoboxes, navigation at the bottom of pages, section titles) we should be consistent. As far as summaries and descriptions I agree it doesn't really matter as much. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 18:50, 19 November 2007 (EST)) |
|||
******Revert all my changes then, it's cool. My bad. I just thought that as an admin decided, that was the decision. It's cool, I get a bit over-eager sometimes... :o :) Sorry, again.--{{User:Lost Soul/sig}} 16:11, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
******* I don't think we need to revert everything just yet. I think we just need to make up our minds before we proceed one way or the other. I agree that "ability" is less loaded than "power", but I remain worried that it's too mundane to convey in all contexts that we're talking extraordinary abilities. My suggestion would be to use "ability", but where necessary, refer to them as "[[evolved human]] [[abilities]]", which makes it clearer that we aren't talking about being good at Tetris.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 16:16, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
********See what you mean. In that case, maybe "power" is better.... I'd best go to bed. :D--{{User:Lost Soul/sig}} 16:18, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
*********Actually, I ''do'' prefer "ability" to "power", which sounds kind of hokey and Pokemonesque whenever somebody actually ''says'' it out loud. But we need to make sure we're clear what we mean when we say "ability".--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 16:21, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
********* Right, we should make up our minds before proceeding to change. However, this change is incomplete. We need to rollback to powers for now. The longer we wait, the harder it is to undo. I prefer "powers" and a global change like this should be voted on. Powers just makes more sense to me.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 16:24, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
********** Kind of ironic that this is coming up now when the volume 2 finale is called "Powerless". Heh, so why isn't anyone replying?--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 17:31, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
********** I just don't see the advantage in undoing a bunch of changes which we'll probably end up redoing anyway. The universe is not going to collapse if some articles say "powers" and others say "abilities". That said, I updated many of the changes to "abilities" so that in the interim, they will at least be clearly referring to superhuman abilities.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 18:15, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
* As far as article naming is concerned I think we've always referred to them a powers. To use both power and ability interchangably in article names is confusing. So, yes, article names should use the term "power" unless there's consensus on a global change from power to ability (specifically in article naming). In terms of the text of an article I'd agree that power and ability are fairly interchangable, but we should be consistent in article naming. Powers or abilities both sound ok to me as terms, but they really should be consistent. Since we've used Powers in the past I suspect there'd be a lot of work involved to change it globally and probably not much payoff, though if all references to "power" are updated to "ability" quickly then I wouldn't mind personally since I just want to see whichever term is preferred used consistently. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 17:51, 19 November 2007 (EST)) |
|||
** How about "Portal:Gifts" or "Portal:Private Freak Shows" or "Portal:Godsends" or "Portal:Curses" or "Portal:Blessings"... (I prefer power to ability) --[[User:DocM|DocM]] 17:55, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
** Also I just checked around and it looks like most of the references to "Power" have already been updated to "Ability"... so I may have overestimated the amount of work required to change it. In any event whether they're called powers or abilities doesn't make much difference to me, as long as we're consistent when it comes to article naming. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 18:05, 19 November 2007 (EST)) |
|||
==Powers v. Abilities in Article Titles== |
|||
On further examination of the transcripts, I'm leaning towards "abilities" more heavily. The Company (except for Claude, who uses both), Chandra, and Mohinder always call them abilities. The only people to consistently refer to them as "powers" are Hiro and Micah. Most everybody else uses them fairly interchangeably, including Peter and Sylar, who are the ones who talk about powers the most.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 18:11, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
* I mentioned it before, but I like either name. As long as whichever name is preferred is used consistently in all places (though not necessarily within in-world summary sections) I can go for either term. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 18:17, 19 November 2007 (EST)) |
|||
** Assuming we do update to "abilities", then, here's what still would need to happen: |
|||
**# Finish the pages in [[:Category:Evolved Humans]] (the bot can actually do this). |
|||
**# Rename Power extension, Power heredity, and Power theft. |
|||
: Most of the [[:category:powers]] articles already refer to them as abilities, so at this point it's really six of one, half-dozen of the other. It makes more sense to come to a decision and proceed one way or the other rather than reverting everything now and potentially end up redoing half of it.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 18:24, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
:: Ok, bot has renamed them all now. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 18:51, 19 November 2007 (EST)) |
|||
::: Any chance you could have it go through [[:Category:Evolved Humans]] and change <nowiki>==[[****|Abilities]]==</nowiki> to <nowiki>==[[Evolved human]] [[****|abilities]]==</nowiki>? I did that to the first batch already.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 18:58, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
:::: Check them out now. They should be fixed. Ignore the edit summaries for the changes I forgot to update the summary the bot provided for the edits. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 19:08, 19 November 2007 (EST)) |
|||
::::* Looks perfect! Thanks!--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 19:17, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
==Abilities cat== |
|||
* As a side note, the real work is to change over the powers to a new Category:Abilities or Category:Evolved Human Abilities, as the text of this portal now says. Since you don't want to do the revert, I ask that you please run the cat-changing bot so it is consistent.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 18:20, 19 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
** I'll wait a little bit just to make sure no one has a change of heart, but recategorizing the power articles will be pretty easy. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 18:23, 19 November 2007 (EST)) |
|||
** Ok, the powers have been re-categorized now as [[:Category:Abilities]]. Can always be renamed again if necessary. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 18:51, 19 November 2007 (EST)) |
|||
== Umbrakenesis & Lumokinesis == |
|||
NBC's Heroes wiki has a page for abilities and it lists [http://boards.nbc.com/nbc/wiki/index.php/Abilities#Umbrakenesis| Umbrakenesis & Lumokinesis] as abilities. --[[User:Snow Leapord|Snow Leapord]] 20:14, 30 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
*Ah, the wiki. Much like our wiki, anybody can add content. Much of theirs is fan speculation, and a fair amount is vandalism and just plain silly. I wouldn't put too much stock in what you find there, though I'm sure it's a pretty entertaining read. :) -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 20:20, 30 November 2007 (EST) |
|||
* Yeah, both of NBC's wikis aren't maintained, have incorrect information, and are heavily vandalized. The only two wikis with accurate Heroes information are this wiki and Wikipedia...and ours has more information since it's focused on Heroes rather than being a general-purpose encyclopedia. ([[User:Admin|Admin]] 21:19, 30 November 2007 (EST)) |
|||
== Should we divide this up into two pages? == |
== Should we divide this up into two pages? == |
||
| Line 115: | Line 19: | ||
***** Ryan said to split off the abilities that were ''only'' in the GNs...--{{User:Heroe/sig}} 23:53, 16 December 2007 (EST) |
***** Ryan said to split off the abilities that were ''only'' in the GNs...--{{User:Heroe/sig}} 23:53, 16 December 2007 (EST) |
||
****** From what I can remember, it's be [[Water mimicry]], [[Replication]], [[Omnilingualism]], [[Electrical absorption]], [[Electromagnetism]], [[Bliss and horror]], [[Dehydration]], [[Enhanced speed]], [[Plant growth]], and if you want seperate other non-show powers, [[Clairsentience]] as well. --[[User:Riddler|Riddler]] 23:57, 16 December 2007 (EST) |
****** From what I can remember, it's be [[Water mimicry]], [[Replication]], [[Omnilingualism]], [[Electrical absorption]], [[Electromagnetism]], [[Bliss and horror]], [[Dehydration]], [[Enhanced speed]], [[Plant growth]], and if you want seperate other non-show powers, [[Clairsentience]] as well. --[[User:Riddler|Riddler]] 23:57, 16 December 2007 (EST) |
||
******* |
*******User:Heroe/Graphic novel abilities. --{{User:Heroe/sig}} 00:05, 17 December 2007 (EST) |
||
******** So we'd have "Portal:Abilities except those in the graphic novels" and "Portal:Graphic novel abilities"? That doesn't make much sense to split off just 9 when the remaining page still has so many.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 00:37, 17 December 2007 (EST) |
******** So we'd have "Portal:Abilities except those in the graphic novels" and "Portal:Graphic novel abilities"? That doesn't make much sense to split off just 9 when the remaining page still has so many.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 00:37, 17 December 2007 (EST) |
||
*********You could have "Episodic abilities". Personally, I would not like a split. It's fine for me. It's a portal, and sometimes portals get large.--{{User:Baldbobbo/sig}} 00:46, 17 December 2007 (EST) |
*********You could have "Episodic abilities". Personally, I would not like a split. It's fine for me. It's a portal, and sometimes portals get large.--{{User:Baldbobbo/sig}} 00:46, 17 December 2007 (EST) |
||
| Line 123: | Line 27: | ||
************ I thought the minor chars and guest stars portals were chosen to be 15 to guarantee they would be fitting on the standard screen.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 12:30, 17 December 2007 (EST) |
************ I thought the minor chars and guest stars portals were chosen to be 15 to guarantee they would be fitting on the standard screen.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 12:30, 17 December 2007 (EST) |
||
************* Still an arbitrary split. There's nothing categorically different about 1-15 compared to 16-30.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 04:11, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
************* Still an arbitrary split. There's nothing categorically different about 1-15 compared to 16-30.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 04:11, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
||
* So after [[crumpling]], I'm starting to want the split between GN and the show. I know there's a lot of fans of the show that don't like the GN because of powers like crumpling and dehydration, and with crumpling, I'm starting to see why.--{{User:Baldbobbo/sig}} 14:49, 25 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
** I think we have consensus to do the Graphic Novel split, but should we have a consensus check before doing it?--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 17:19, 25 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
==Automating== |
== Automating == |
||
* I'm testing out automating this portal [[User:MiamiVolts/Portal:Abilities|here]]; still a work in progress but it's a start.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 02:34, 17 December 2007 (EST) |
* I'm testing out automating this portal [[User:MiamiVolts/Portal:Abilities|here]]; still a work in progress but it's a start.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 02:34, 17 December 2007 (EST) |
||
** Ok, it's looks to be all set. I'll add a rename template tag now so you can take a look at it. I could split off the graphic novels from it, but with only nine GN-only abilities I think the reason that there's not enough to warrant it holds true.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 02:15, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
** Ok, it's looks to be all set. I'll add a rename template tag now so you can take a look at it. I could split off the graphic novels from it, but with only nine GN-only abilities I think the reason that there's not enough to warrant it holds true.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 02:15, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
||
*** I just don't see much reason to automate this one, I guess. To be clear, I'm not really opposed to it -- I just think it's kind of unnecessary. And I still think the GN-only powers should be split off, along with any other GN-only stuff that has enough articles to form a portal. It seems random to treat GN characters, locations, and places separately but not GN items, powers, and groups. If we have separate top-level categories for the show, the GNs, and evolutions, we should use them whenever possible or do away with them--not use them haphazardly as the mood strikes us.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 04:10, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
*** I just don't see much reason to automate this one, I guess. To be clear, I'm not really opposed to it -- I just think it's kind of unnecessary. And I still think the GN-only powers should be split off, along with any other GN-only stuff that has enough articles to form a portal. It seems random to treat GN characters, locations, and places separately but not GN items, powers, and groups. If we have separate top-level categories for the show, the GNs, and evolutions, we should use them whenever possible or do away with them--not use them haphazardly as the mood strikes us.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 04:10, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
||
**** I just didn't think nine novels was enough to warrant a seperate portal, as I think it's kind of unnecessary. But since a majority of the commenters think GNs should be split, I've no problems doing that.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 13:48, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
**** I just didn't think nine novels was enough to warrant a seperate portal, as I think it's kind of unnecessary. But since a majority of the commenters think GNs should be split, I've no problems doing that.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 13:48, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
||
***** I'd agree that it's unnecessary if there was any possible justification for segregating some graphic novel content but not others. I don't see anything fundamentally different about GN-only characters and GN-only powers. They're all graphic novel content, and belong under the umbrella of [[:Category:Graphic Novels]] instead of [[:Category:Heroes]].--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 15:41, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
* I don't really like automating portals- I think it discourages new users from trying to edit them. --{{User:Heroe/sig}} 14:57, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
* I don't really like automating portals- I think it discourages new users from trying to edit them. --{{User:Heroe/sig}} 14:57, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
||
** That's the whole point. If the portals are automated, new users can spend more time |
** That's the whole point. If the portals are automated, new users can spend more time focusing on the article itself and less on putting it in a portal.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 15:19, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
||
*** There are advantages to not automating portals, too -- we can include wanted articles, and we have more control over how content displays (using alternate images, overriding links and text on an individual basis, overriding layout and formatting where necessary, etc.) Really, it's only multipage portals that gain much from being automated (in that it eliminates an otherwise arduous, multi-page update process)--and I still don't think this needs to be a multipage portal, whether GN/Evolutions-only powers are removed or not. It's long, but it's not unmanageably long.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 15:41, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
****I agree. I love that we don't have to update five articles every time a character's name changes, or if every time we promote a character from guest to supporting. However, I much prefer having some control over the way a portal looks, and I don't like controlling it through categories which don't always fit (is [[rift]] really a [[Portal:Lists|list]]?) and other methods which sometimes seem like we're bending over backwards to have something be automatic. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 15:56, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
***** Ok, we can add a related-articles category for abilities and move [[ability extension]], [[ability heredity]], [[ability theft]], [[paradox]], [[prophecy]] and [[rift]] to that category. Simple enough. Anything else?--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 16:03, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
****** So the answer to the problem of "making changes to articles merely for the sake of automating a portal that doesn't really need to be automated to begin with" is ... making ''more'' changes to articles?--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 16:26, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
***** Wait, what? Rift is really in Lists? No, just no. We can't assign the wrong categories to articles just to make an automated portal work. That article is in no way a list. I'd rather add a variable to the infobox and pull that value instead if it came down to it--or add a blank template and use "USES" in the dpl statement--or any of the other ways to make this work without adding junk information to an article. Or heck, not automate a portal that doesn't real need it to begin with.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 16:37, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
****** In this case, yes. I already changed those articles by adding the Lists category as they each contained a list of abilities or a list of cases where events tied to abilities occurred. However, we are obviously not in agreement that those articles are Lists, hence more changes are necessary to remove that category, so why not add a new category at the same time? On another note, I thought we always wanted the portal image to match the article image, and I don't really see the case materializing of needing a wanted article for an ability. That said, I also want to note that individual rows can be de-automated quite easily.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 16:44, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
******* Actually, the case where we want a different image in the portal has already come up: Candice Wilmer in the Season Two minor characters portal ''was'' using an image of Rachel Kimsey as "Michelle". After automation, it's back to Missy Peregrym. Another potential problem with image automation is when an article appears in two different portals with different sized images, like [[Dinosaur]]. If all of the portals are automated, it'll have to have a hidden character box added for the Animals portal to work. In general, articles which appear in multiple categories create a headache for portal automation; see [[Darryl Chan]], for example. I still don't see the point in automating this portal, and I think automation is being discussed just to gloss over the discussion about whether it even needs to be split in the first place, or how to split it.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 16:59, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
******** This is a separate issue from minor characters and animals. This is just a debate on whether abilities should be automated, not the other portals, and I've already given my opinion on that above (for my opinion on splitting alphabetically, see the previous section).--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 17:16, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
********* Yes, but the problem of articles in multiple categories could conceivably apply to all automated portals, including powers. "Clairsentience" is in both Heroes Evolutions and Powers. I think we're better off automating portals only when they need to be split alphabetically (we could conceivably do Issues as well, but at the rate of one per week and with no name changes, it seems pointless to do so).--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 17:39, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
********** I'm not a big fan of automating portals that don't need to be automated. I like having manual control over this portal, and we're not adding new abilities each week. The argument that leaving them as is so others can practice editing doesn't fly with me, but the argument that it's good to have some control over the content does fly with me. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 19:08, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
***********, I don't care for the automating either. It looks confusing and is much easier to just look at one page. -- [[User:Catalyst|Catalyst]] 12:27, 21 January 2009 (EST) |
|||
== Other subcategorization == |
|||
I just haven't seen a good reason to split this, alphabetically or otherwise (and there are other (undiscussed) options, of course--we can subcategorize any number of ways like we do with Places, we can separate powers to match the characters who possess them (major, supporting, recurring, minor--not that that's a ''good'' option, but it's an option), etc. It seems like an alphabetical split, which is usually our last resort, may be premature even if we need to split.--[[User:Hardvice|Hardvice]] <small>[[User talk:Hardvice|(talk)]]</small> 17:39, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
* Other classification has already been thought of, but doesn't work. The abilities no longer name their possessors in the portal, so SacValleyDweller and myself had come up with a couple of different ways to subcategorize the abilities by the nature of their effects, but we found that both classification systems were better suited as theories since the basis as for what ability belonged in what category was essentially a theory. Thus, we now have [[Theory:Abilities by classical element]] and [[Theory:Abilities by Dr. Suresh's category]].--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 18:02, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
**Right, those are great theories, but they wouldn't work for splitting this portal, if you ask me. I have no problem splitting off the graphic novel powers (especially since a friend recently came to me and was a little perturbed that they had to "ignore" the GN content that's included on this page since they don't believe they should have to read the comics in order to enjoy ''Heroes''), but I don't see a dire need to split the page yet. It's long, but not terrible. I'm not against a split, I'm just not going to fight for one, either. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 19:05, 18 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
== Consensus check == |
|||
===Split to Portal:Graphic Novel Abilities and Portal:Abilities=== |
|||
*--{{User:Heroe/sig}} 22:37, 26 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
*--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 23:00, 26 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
*--[[User:Dawntreader|Dawntreader]] 23:41, 23 September 2008 (PST) |
|||
===Don't split=== |
|||
* No need right now. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 00:06, 27 December 2007 (EST) |
|||
* To split would be to label the GN abilities inferior to the others in some way --{{User:SacValleyDweller/sig}} 18:02, 14 January 2008 (EST) |
|||
* Seems fine to me. --{{User:Ice Vision/sig}} 18:44, 14 January 2008 (EST) |
|||
* I don't think there is any need to split the pages. The graphic novel abilities have no similarities except for the fact that they're graphic novel abilities! I think the pages should stay. And why were they changed anyway? [[User:Jason Garrick|Jason Garrick]] 18:00, 24 February 2008 (EST) |
|||
** This is kind of an old discussion, but the plan from the very beginning was to split off the abilities from the graphic novels into their own portal, much like we've done with [[Portal:Graphic Novel Characters]], [[Portal:Graphic Novel Locations]], and [[Portal:Graphic Novel Places]]. The consensus check from two months ago was to see if it was time to split the portal or not. Personally, I didn't think it needed it back then, but our list of abilities has grown since then. Now really is a much better time to make the split. Eventually, we'll also have a portal for graphic novel items, graphic novel events, etc. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 20:02, 24 February 2008 (EST) |
|||
* One page listing all the powers in the Heroes-verse. Splitting characters is different that splitting powers. <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 02/25/2008 10:33 (EST)</small> |
|||
** Portals are different than list pages. Portals are for navigation, lists are for comprehensive lists. For a list of all the powers, see [[powers]]. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 11:21, 25 February 2008 (EST) |
|||
* Don't split...love a one-point reference page! <small>--[[User:HiroDynoSlayer|HiroDynoSlayer]] ([[User talk:HiroDynoSlayer|talk]]) 09/24/2008 21:26 (EST)</small> |
|||
** You're a little late. The portal was split awhile ago. See [[Portal:Graphic Novel Abilities]]. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 22:35, 24 September 2008 (EDT) |
|||
== Super speed and ando's ability? == |
|||
even though Ando's ability was very brief, i feel it does deserve the honor to at least show up on the portal as "Ando's ability"... also super speed with Daphne already has a page and what not it just isn't on the portal. I say we add it but some people know better than i.--[[User:Pbmarcano|Pbmarcano]] 21:12, 24 September 2008 (EDT) |
|||
--EDIT-- |
|||
while were at it maybe mohinder's ability as well? |
|||
* I'll take care of it. The pages have been created, they just haven't been added to this portal yet. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 22:35, 24 September 2008 (EDT) |
|||
**thanks, sorry i couldn't be more help, i guess this can be erased now.--[[User:Pbmarcano|Pbmarcano]] 16:25, 25 September 2008 (EDT) |
|||
== Psychometry == |
|||
According to one of the previews from the Heroes Countdown episode, we're going to be seeing Psychometry coming into play. Psychometry is the ability to touch an object and instantly know it's history; where it's been, where it came from, etc. A search for Psychometry currently redirects to Clairsentience, so once it debuts on the show will it remain as a subclass of Clairsentience, or will it receive it's own page and place on the portal? [[User:Anticrash|Anticrash]] 18:54, 26 September 2008 (EDT) |
|||
*The character used in that segment is [[Bridget Bailey]], who has [[clairsentience]]. The name and content is derived from BBC's coverage of Heroes, but was later picked up by the Heroes staff, and is now [[Heroes Evolutions]] content. So, the name comes from the writing staff, and will stay that way. I'm not sure where you got that name from.--{{User:Baldbobbo/sig}} 19:11, 26 September 2008 (EDT) |
|||
** As well, the name "clairsentience" is explicitly used in Bridget's emails to Mohinder. Chandra used the term (and wrote an entire chapter about it) in ''[[Activating Evolution]]''. Unless they use the term "psychometry" on air, there won't be any need to change the name of the article. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 21:50, 26 September 2008 (EDT) |
|||
***Okay, I get it now. I didn't realize that was the clairsentient girl from the BBC. I used the term "Psychometry" just because Angela said that she can "touch an object and know it's history," which is the definition of Psychometry. I didn't know that they applied that definition to clairsentience. It's a term I've been aware of for years, so when Angela used that description I immediately made a connection Psychometry. In my experience, clairsentience has always related more to universal awareness (like a form of Precognition, but at the present time) while Psychometry relates to objects and physical contact. Thanks for clearing that up. [[User:Anticrash|Anticrash]] 01:38, 28 September 2008 (EDT) |
|||
== When do abilities normally show? == |
|||
From what I've seen, it's mid-20s to 30/40s for a "parentally normal" person, and young child to teen for those with parental powers. Is that about right? [[User:Lorddarigarn|Lorddarigarn]] 08:30, 21 November 2008 |
|||
* I don't think there's any rule. [[Peter]] is not have "parentally normal", yet he displayed his powers when he was in his 20s. [[Penny]]'s parents both have powers, yet she's never displayed a power herself. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 10:47, 21 November 2008 (EST) |
|||
== ability resistance == |
|||
its seems that people with abilities have a resistance to others abilities, for example; angela had a resistance to matt's telepathic probing; sylar was able to overcome doyle's pupet hold; matt was able to overcome the hatians anti power field; luke was able to overcome sylars telekinisis to warn his drink up for him. I think this kind of thing deserves a page but i have no idea how to start. |
|||
niki vercame mauray to inject herself with the shanti virus |
|||
*I think it's mainly willpower. --[[User:Lolwut|Lolwut]] 17:08, 13 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
i was thinking making a table. 50000JH |
|||
== Powers from iStories == |
|||
I think they shouldn't be on the same page as powers from the episodes. Abilities from graphic novels aren't here, so why should the ones from iStories be here?--<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight:bold;">[[User:Alen76|Alen]] ([[User:Alen76|talk]])</span> 19:32, 12 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
*They've been put here before, light absorption was one of them. I don't oppose creating a portal for iStory abilities, I just find it unnecessary. If lots of abilities show up only in iStory though, I'd support the split. [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 19:34, 12 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
** I agree with Inuitive Empath and none have images bar light absoption which would mean a portal of blank images. But if more come out the wood work then I don't mind. --{{User:Laughingdevilboy/signature}} 19:37, 12 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
*** They don't have their own section yet, so they end up with the other abilities. The normal process is to split when we have enough abilities to make it worth it. There are four of them now (Light generation, Linda's, Crazy grin man's, and Water generation) so I guess it would be okay to create a new portal for them now. Four is really the minimum we go with. If someone wants to jump on that, that would be great. PS: If you want to update Template:Power, you first need to create Category:iStory Abilities, edit Template:Infobox Power to assign the category if "iStory=t", then edit the four iStory abilities to apply that variable in the template.--[[User:MiamiVolts|MiamiVolts]] ([[User_talk:MiamiVolts|talk]]) 19:43, 12 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
* I totally agree with alen76, funnily enough i was on this page to make the exact same argument, but i digress. the 'episode' ability page is no longer an episode ability page at all, and will be littered with abilities we will never actually see. hey, you did it for the heroes evolutions clairstience, and that was only one ability. I mean you had more info on empathic mimicry than most of these new abilities --[[User:Lolwut|Lolwut]] 16:56, 13 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
I suggested a while ago that we create a portal for webisode abilities. How about the portal can be 'Evolutions' abilities, and have Webside AND iStory? Included could be [[water mimicry]], [[teleportation]], [[constriction]], [[accelerated probability]], [[David's ability]], and then obviously [[light absorption]], [[crazy grin man's ability]], and the like. -- {{User:Tristan0709/Signature}} 00:13, 14 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
**I like that alot. There should be a page with abilities just from the episodes, the ironic thing is that the admins have done exactly that for the graphic novels, which has less precedence --[[User:Lolwut|Lolwut]] 07:41, 14 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
***I think the reason graphic novels abilities were made a category for was that there was a lot of them. We haven't seen a lot of webisode/iStory abilities, so I think a category of ''Other abilities'' would be alright. However, this would beg the question - which takes precedence, other abilities or GN abilities. In other words, if an ability appears in an webisode as well as a GN (as teleportation and water mimicry does), which category does it go in? For this reason I think we should consider separating abilities into '''4''' major categories -- see [[User:Radicell/Recategorized abilities navbar|here]] for an examples of how [[Template:power]] would look. --[[User:Radicell|Radicell]] 07:57, 14 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
**** Yea thats a good point. i think that the ladder should go episodes ---> graphic novels ---> istory/webisodes or something like that. i think that we should place an ability in the area it was seen first (like, water mimicry would be in 'webisode/istory abilities' and teleportation aswell) course that said if it appears in the show it should permanenty stay in the episodes page, like sound manip. --[[User:Lolwut|Lolwut]] 09:00, 14 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
***** [[User:Elemental Manipulator|Elemental Manipulator]] posted the [[User:Ryangibsonstewart#iStory abilities|same request on my talk page]]. I agree, we need a new portal. In fact, Miami's comment above is 100% spot on. The portals are designed to get to be a certain size, but then split when we have enough from another medium. (We might also want to think about creating a "Portal:Graphic Novel Items", but that's a different discussion.) I'm not really hearing any dissent on this page--some are saying it's not necessary, but nobody seems outright opposed. And ultimately, since the original plan for the portals was to split them up anyway, I'll go ahead and take care of splitting them. I like the plan outlined above. We can tweak if necessary, but I'll start by making a portal for Evolutions abilities, which will include abilities featured only in webisodes and iStory content. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 19:51, 14 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
*****That's where some (like me) would disagree with you (lolwut) -- I think that webisodes are best placed above graphic novels due to their "live-action" nature. After all, it would make sense for it to go like <br>Live-action<br>Live-action (on a smaller scale)<br>Illustrated material<br>Written material<br>--[[User:Radicell|Radicell]] 19:53, 14 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
****** I tend to agree with Radicell on this one. I usually prefer live action images over illustrated images...but I don't care too much one way or another to stand in the way of anything. It's more of a personal preference for me, I think. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 20:18, 14 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
*******Yes, I also think webisodes should be the higher canon. Some ([[Hard Knox]], for example) were actually intended to be ''in'' the show, so I think it would be foolish to consider graphic novels more important, so to speak. -- {{User:Tristan0709/Signature}} 00:08, 15 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
******** I also agree. --{{User:Laughingdevilboy/signature}} 07:42, 15 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
********* Not sure iStory abilities should be kept with webisode ones, they belong to different levels. iStory belongs to written material and webisode belongs to small scale live action. [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 16:11, 15 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
**********Exactly my point. Also, right now, we seem to have the current system ranking as Episode -> Evolutions -> GNs. But on Template:power, we've got the GN ones listed above the Evolutions ones. It's a minor problem, but raises major questions as to whether or not we want to keep the system that way. --[[User:Radicell|Radicell]] 19:49, 15 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
***********Maybe the same "criteria order" we use for ability naming? [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 20:19, 15 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
************ Radicell, on [[template:power]], they should really be listed alphabetically, not in hierarchical order--I'll fix that now. As for whether webisodes and iStory abilities both belong in under Evolutions abilities, I don't really care one way or another. In fact, I altered [[template:infobox power]] so we could easily change it if we needed to (I had a feeling this discussion would surface). I definitely think they need to be split from the episodic abilities. But if we split the Evolutions abilities, we're left with two very measly portals, which seems really imbalanced. I don't have a problem lumping them all together right now...but if it's deemed necessary to split them, I don't have a problem with that either--I just don't like having such wimpy portals out there. :) -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 20:34, 15 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
************* Radicell has a good point however as we've seen so far webisodes and iStory are usually lower with canon material. i agree with Lolwut, episodes-> graphic novels-> webisodes/iStory. Right now aside from the episodes, graphic novels are usually more accurate with canon material and canonocity (is that even a word?). :P [[User:Shoyru1177|Shoyru1177]] 09:59, 16 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
************** Who says that graphic novels are more accurate? And for purposes of this wiki, there is no difference in the level of canon (or canonicity) of the graphic novels and any Evolutions content. See [[help:sources]] for more information. -- {{User:Ryangibsonstewart/sig}} 17:23, 16 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
* I think it should go (in canonicity) Episodes --> Webisodes --> Graphic Novels --> IStory. But that is my opinion. --{{User:Laughingdevilboy/signature}} 15:47, 17 April 2009 (EDT) |
|||
== "Byproduct of" Section ? == |
|||
I was wandering around here, and i just thought, why not adding a section "Byproduct of" in the abilities' description ? As we often speak of that kind of things, it would be easier for people to find, as some byproducts don't really match the idea we can have from an ability (such as precognition be a byproduct of telepathy). |
|||
*I doubt there would be much use for it, there aren't many abilities with by-products and the one's that do have not yet been fully proven (e.g [[precognition]] to be a by-product of [[telepathy]]) -- {{User:Jenx222/sig}} 15:47, 18 October 2009 (EDT) |
|||
== Update == |
|||
I think that this page is in need of an update, adding in all of the abilities, or is there a reason that some of them are not on it? --[[User:Mc hammark|mc_hammark]] 15:22, 18 October 2009 (EDT) |
|||
:We have three ability portals, for three "canon" levels, this is for episodes (the highest), the graphic novel (the lowest), and the evolutions (in between). For all abilities, see [[list of abilities]]. [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 15:31, 18 October 2009 (EDT) |
|||
::Yeah, I seen that after I'd posted this. It still surprises me that I've been on here for ages yet still haven't seen quite a number of pages! :) --[[User:Mc hammark|mc_hammark]] 15:33, 18 October 2009 (EDT) |
|||
Latest revision as of 19:47, 18 October 2009
| Archives | Archived Topics |
|---|---|
| February 2007-November 2007 | [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mess]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes]] • [[Talk:Portal:Abilities/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>*?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error mes]] |
Should we divide this up into two pages?
It's freakin' huge.--Riddler 21:40, 4 December 2007 (EST)
- So is examples of empathic mimicry. Just 'cause it's big doesn't mean it has to be two pages. That, and 1) it's easeir to navigate with just one page, and 2) there's no natural breaking point. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 21:45, 4 December 2007 (EST)
- I agree, Heroe, I don't think it needs to be split quite yet. Do you have a suggestion for where it should be split, Riddler? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:13, 4 December 2007 (EST)
- Well, there are 40 powers... 20 a page would fit nicely, with 5 rows of 4. But it's up to you guys, I just thought it had alot of pictures. I don't think the five per row works too well either though, it stretches the page quite a bit.--Riddler 22:26, 4 December 2007 (EST)
- I agree, Heroe, I don't think it needs to be split quite yet. Do you have a suggestion for where it should be split, Riddler? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:13, 4 December 2007 (EST)
- Another option is to split off any powers that are specific to the graphic novels, much like what we've done with graphic novel characters, graphic novel locations, and graphic novel places. By my count, that would make nine powers move, which would leave us with 31. That seems a bit more manageable. (Incidentally, list of abilities wouldn't have to change, nor would template:power.) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:44, 16 December 2007 (EST)
- I like that option a lot more. It matches the splits in other portals and is not arbitrary.--Hardvice (talk) 22:02, 16 December 2007 (EST)
- Same here. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 22:03, 16 December 2007 (EST)
- I don't like the idea of splitting off the graphic novel abilities. Many of the abilities are used in both the graphic novels and the show. And what about abilities that are only shown in Heroes evolutions, like in a video segment? To me, it makes more sense to me to do an alphabetical split, keeping three rows of five per page. It is likely that in each volume several new powers are going to be introduced and setting up an alphabetical system now during the offseason of the show should not be difficult. We can probably even use dpl to automate it (the abilities themselves should be those articles in Category:Abilities which are not in Category:Lists).--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:30, 16 December 2007 (EST)
- Ryan said to split off the abilities that were only in the GNs...--Hero!(talk)(contribs) 23:53, 16 December 2007 (EST)
- From what I can remember, it's be Water mimicry, Replication, Omnilingualism, Electrical absorption, Electromagnetism, Bliss and horror, Dehydration, Enhanced speed, Plant growth, and if you want seperate other non-show powers, Clairsentience as well. --Riddler 23:57, 16 December 2007 (EST)
- User:Heroe/Graphic novel abilities. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 00:05, 17 December 2007 (EST)
- So we'd have "Portal:Abilities except those in the graphic novels" and "Portal:Graphic novel abilities"? That doesn't make much sense to split off just 9 when the remaining page still has so many.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:37, 17 December 2007 (EST)
- You could have "Episodic abilities". Personally, I would not like a split. It's fine for me. It's a portal, and sometimes portals get large.--Bob (talk) 00:46, 17 December 2007 (EST)
- It wouldn't be called "Portal:Abilities except those in the graphic novels", it'd be called "Portal:Abilities", and the other would be called "Portal:Graphic Novel Abilities". It would follow the exact same format as Portal:Locations and Portal:Graphic Novel Locations. We would leave list of abilities alone and put all abilities there, just like we put all locations on Template:Locationmap. As for clairsentience, I wouldn't be opposed to splitting it (removing ten altogether from the page) since it's already included on Portal:Evolutions Other. If more abilities are shown only in Heroes Evolutions (like video segments, as suggested), it would certainly warrant "Portal:Evolutions Abilities". I agree with Bob, I don't think a split is necessary at all, but if we have one, splitting by GN would match the splits we have for other categories, and it wouldn't be an arbitrary split. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 05:30, 17 December 2007 (EST)
- So you are calling the Minor Characters and Guest Stars portal splits via alphabet arbitrary? They were split so that everything was viewable on a single screen such that you didn't have to scroll down to view all the entries. I actually don't mind splitting off the graphic novel and evolutions abilities, but it's not enough, imho.--MiamiVolts (talk) 11:06, 17 December 2007 (EST)
- Well ... yes. Splitting the minor characters into pages of fifteen cells is completely arbitrary. Why not twenty? Why not twenty-five? Nothing distinguishes characters 1-15 from characters 16-30 except their names and an arbitrary number of characters per page, so the split is arbitrary. Unfortunately, in that case, there's not much else we could have done. Here there is (and in fact, splitting the graphic novel characters off from the series characters is something we did a long time ago). We try to avoid arbitrary splits in the portals as much as possible, because meaningful classification makes things easier to find, but arbitrary classification makes things more difficult to find. Sometimes it's unavoidable. Incidentally, splits for GN powers, GN events, etc. were planned all along when the portals were developed--there just weren't enough articles at the time to justify them.--Hardvice (talk) 11:59, 17 December 2007 (EST)
- I thought the minor chars and guest stars portals were chosen to be 15 to guarantee they would be fitting on the standard screen.--MiamiVolts (talk) 12:30, 17 December 2007 (EST)
- Well ... yes. Splitting the minor characters into pages of fifteen cells is completely arbitrary. Why not twenty? Why not twenty-five? Nothing distinguishes characters 1-15 from characters 16-30 except their names and an arbitrary number of characters per page, so the split is arbitrary. Unfortunately, in that case, there's not much else we could have done. Here there is (and in fact, splitting the graphic novel characters off from the series characters is something we did a long time ago). We try to avoid arbitrary splits in the portals as much as possible, because meaningful classification makes things easier to find, but arbitrary classification makes things more difficult to find. Sometimes it's unavoidable. Incidentally, splits for GN powers, GN events, etc. were planned all along when the portals were developed--there just weren't enough articles at the time to justify them.--Hardvice (talk) 11:59, 17 December 2007 (EST)
- So you are calling the Minor Characters and Guest Stars portal splits via alphabet arbitrary? They were split so that everything was viewable on a single screen such that you didn't have to scroll down to view all the entries. I actually don't mind splitting off the graphic novel and evolutions abilities, but it's not enough, imho.--MiamiVolts (talk) 11:06, 17 December 2007 (EST)
- So we'd have "Portal:Abilities except those in the graphic novels" and "Portal:Graphic novel abilities"? That doesn't make much sense to split off just 9 when the remaining page still has so many.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:37, 17 December 2007 (EST)
- User:Heroe/Graphic novel abilities. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 00:05, 17 December 2007 (EST)
- From what I can remember, it's be Water mimicry, Replication, Omnilingualism, Electrical absorption, Electromagnetism, Bliss and horror, Dehydration, Enhanced speed, Plant growth, and if you want seperate other non-show powers, Clairsentience as well. --Riddler 23:57, 16 December 2007 (EST)
- Ryan said to split off the abilities that were only in the GNs...--Hero!(talk)(contribs) 23:53, 16 December 2007 (EST)
- I don't like the idea of splitting off the graphic novel abilities. Many of the abilities are used in both the graphic novels and the show. And what about abilities that are only shown in Heroes evolutions, like in a video segment? To me, it makes more sense to me to do an alphabetical split, keeping three rows of five per page. It is likely that in each volume several new powers are going to be introduced and setting up an alphabetical system now during the offseason of the show should not be difficult. We can probably even use dpl to automate it (the abilities themselves should be those articles in Category:Abilities which are not in Category:Lists).--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:30, 16 December 2007 (EST)
- Same here. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 22:03, 16 December 2007 (EST)
- I like that option a lot more. It matches the splits in other portals and is not arbitrary.--Hardvice (talk) 22:02, 16 December 2007 (EST)
- So after crumpling, I'm starting to want the split between GN and the show. I know there's a lot of fans of the show that don't like the GN because of powers like crumpling and dehydration, and with crumpling, I'm starting to see why.--Bob (talk) 14:49, 25 December 2007 (EST)
- I think we have consensus to do the Graphic Novel split, but should we have a consensus check before doing it?--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:19, 25 December 2007 (EST)
Automating
- I'm testing out automating this portal here; still a work in progress but it's a start.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:34, 17 December 2007 (EST)
- Ok, it's looks to be all set. I'll add a rename template tag now so you can take a look at it. I could split off the graphic novels from it, but with only nine GN-only abilities I think the reason that there's not enough to warrant it holds true.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:15, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- I just don't see much reason to automate this one, I guess. To be clear, I'm not really opposed to it -- I just think it's kind of unnecessary. And I still think the GN-only powers should be split off, along with any other GN-only stuff that has enough articles to form a portal. It seems random to treat GN characters, locations, and places separately but not GN items, powers, and groups. If we have separate top-level categories for the show, the GNs, and evolutions, we should use them whenever possible or do away with them--not use them haphazardly as the mood strikes us.--Hardvice (talk) 04:10, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- I just didn't think nine novels was enough to warrant a seperate portal, as I think it's kind of unnecessary. But since a majority of the commenters think GNs should be split, I've no problems doing that.--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:48, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- I'd agree that it's unnecessary if there was any possible justification for segregating some graphic novel content but not others. I don't see anything fundamentally different about GN-only characters and GN-only powers. They're all graphic novel content, and belong under the umbrella of Category:Graphic Novels instead of Category:Heroes.--Hardvice (talk) 15:41, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- I just didn't think nine novels was enough to warrant a seperate portal, as I think it's kind of unnecessary. But since a majority of the commenters think GNs should be split, I've no problems doing that.--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:48, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- I just don't see much reason to automate this one, I guess. To be clear, I'm not really opposed to it -- I just think it's kind of unnecessary. And I still think the GN-only powers should be split off, along with any other GN-only stuff that has enough articles to form a portal. It seems random to treat GN characters, locations, and places separately but not GN items, powers, and groups. If we have separate top-level categories for the show, the GNs, and evolutions, we should use them whenever possible or do away with them--not use them haphazardly as the mood strikes us.--Hardvice (talk) 04:10, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- Ok, it's looks to be all set. I'll add a rename template tag now so you can take a look at it. I could split off the graphic novels from it, but with only nine GN-only abilities I think the reason that there's not enough to warrant it holds true.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:15, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- I don't really like automating portals- I think it discourages new users from trying to edit them. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 14:57, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- That's the whole point. If the portals are automated, new users can spend more time focusing on the article itself and less on putting it in a portal.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:19, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- There are advantages to not automating portals, too -- we can include wanted articles, and we have more control over how content displays (using alternate images, overriding links and text on an individual basis, overriding layout and formatting where necessary, etc.) Really, it's only multipage portals that gain much from being automated (in that it eliminates an otherwise arduous, multi-page update process)--and I still don't think this needs to be a multipage portal, whether GN/Evolutions-only powers are removed or not. It's long, but it's not unmanageably long.--Hardvice (talk) 15:41, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- I agree. I love that we don't have to update five articles every time a character's name changes, or if every time we promote a character from guest to supporting. However, I much prefer having some control over the way a portal looks, and I don't like controlling it through categories which don't always fit (is rift really a list?) and other methods which sometimes seem like we're bending over backwards to have something be automatic. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:56, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- Ok, we can add a related-articles category for abilities and move ability extension, ability heredity, ability theft, paradox, prophecy and rift to that category. Simple enough. Anything else?--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:03, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- Wait, what? Rift is really in Lists? No, just no. We can't assign the wrong categories to articles just to make an automated portal work. That article is in no way a list. I'd rather add a variable to the infobox and pull that value instead if it came down to it--or add a blank template and use "USES" in the dpl statement--or any of the other ways to make this work without adding junk information to an article. Or heck, not automate a portal that doesn't real need it to begin with.--Hardvice (talk) 16:37, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- In this case, yes. I already changed those articles by adding the Lists category as they each contained a list of abilities or a list of cases where events tied to abilities occurred. However, we are obviously not in agreement that those articles are Lists, hence more changes are necessary to remove that category, so why not add a new category at the same time? On another note, I thought we always wanted the portal image to match the article image, and I don't really see the case materializing of needing a wanted article for an ability. That said, I also want to note that individual rows can be de-automated quite easily.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:44, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- Actually, the case where we want a different image in the portal has already come up: Candice Wilmer in the Season Two minor characters portal was using an image of Rachel Kimsey as "Michelle". After automation, it's back to Missy Peregrym. Another potential problem with image automation is when an article appears in two different portals with different sized images, like Dinosaur. If all of the portals are automated, it'll have to have a hidden character box added for the Animals portal to work. In general, articles which appear in multiple categories create a headache for portal automation; see Darryl Chan, for example. I still don't see the point in automating this portal, and I think automation is being discussed just to gloss over the discussion about whether it even needs to be split in the first place, or how to split it.--Hardvice (talk) 16:59, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- This is a separate issue from minor characters and animals. This is just a debate on whether abilities should be automated, not the other portals, and I've already given my opinion on that above (for my opinion on splitting alphabetically, see the previous section).--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:16, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- Yes, but the problem of articles in multiple categories could conceivably apply to all automated portals, including powers. "Clairsentience" is in both Heroes Evolutions and Powers. I think we're better off automating portals only when they need to be split alphabetically (we could conceivably do Issues as well, but at the rate of one per week and with no name changes, it seems pointless to do so).--Hardvice (talk) 17:39, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- I'm not a big fan of automating portals that don't need to be automated. I like having manual control over this portal, and we're not adding new abilities each week. The argument that leaving them as is so others can practice editing doesn't fly with me, but the argument that it's good to have some control over the content does fly with me. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:08, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- , I don't care for the automating either. It looks confusing and is much easier to just look at one page. -- Catalyst 12:27, 21 January 2009 (EST)
- I'm not a big fan of automating portals that don't need to be automated. I like having manual control over this portal, and we're not adding new abilities each week. The argument that leaving them as is so others can practice editing doesn't fly with me, but the argument that it's good to have some control over the content does fly with me. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:08, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- Yes, but the problem of articles in multiple categories could conceivably apply to all automated portals, including powers. "Clairsentience" is in both Heroes Evolutions and Powers. I think we're better off automating portals only when they need to be split alphabetically (we could conceivably do Issues as well, but at the rate of one per week and with no name changes, it seems pointless to do so).--Hardvice (talk) 17:39, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- This is a separate issue from minor characters and animals. This is just a debate on whether abilities should be automated, not the other portals, and I've already given my opinion on that above (for my opinion on splitting alphabetically, see the previous section).--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:16, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- Actually, the case where we want a different image in the portal has already come up: Candice Wilmer in the Season Two minor characters portal was using an image of Rachel Kimsey as "Michelle". After automation, it's back to Missy Peregrym. Another potential problem with image automation is when an article appears in two different portals with different sized images, like Dinosaur. If all of the portals are automated, it'll have to have a hidden character box added for the Animals portal to work. In general, articles which appear in multiple categories create a headache for portal automation; see Darryl Chan, for example. I still don't see the point in automating this portal, and I think automation is being discussed just to gloss over the discussion about whether it even needs to be split in the first place, or how to split it.--Hardvice (talk) 16:59, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- In this case, yes. I already changed those articles by adding the Lists category as they each contained a list of abilities or a list of cases where events tied to abilities occurred. However, we are obviously not in agreement that those articles are Lists, hence more changes are necessary to remove that category, so why not add a new category at the same time? On another note, I thought we always wanted the portal image to match the article image, and I don't really see the case materializing of needing a wanted article for an ability. That said, I also want to note that individual rows can be de-automated quite easily.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:44, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- I agree. I love that we don't have to update five articles every time a character's name changes, or if every time we promote a character from guest to supporting. However, I much prefer having some control over the way a portal looks, and I don't like controlling it through categories which don't always fit (is rift really a list?) and other methods which sometimes seem like we're bending over backwards to have something be automatic. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:56, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- There are advantages to not automating portals, too -- we can include wanted articles, and we have more control over how content displays (using alternate images, overriding links and text on an individual basis, overriding layout and formatting where necessary, etc.) Really, it's only multipage portals that gain much from being automated (in that it eliminates an otherwise arduous, multi-page update process)--and I still don't think this needs to be a multipage portal, whether GN/Evolutions-only powers are removed or not. It's long, but it's not unmanageably long.--Hardvice (talk) 15:41, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- That's the whole point. If the portals are automated, new users can spend more time focusing on the article itself and less on putting it in a portal.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:19, 18 December 2007 (EST)
Other subcategorization
I just haven't seen a good reason to split this, alphabetically or otherwise (and there are other (undiscussed) options, of course--we can subcategorize any number of ways like we do with Places, we can separate powers to match the characters who possess them (major, supporting, recurring, minor--not that that's a good option, but it's an option), etc. It seems like an alphabetical split, which is usually our last resort, may be premature even if we need to split.--Hardvice (talk) 17:39, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- Other classification has already been thought of, but doesn't work. The abilities no longer name their possessors in the portal, so SacValleyDweller and myself had come up with a couple of different ways to subcategorize the abilities by the nature of their effects, but we found that both classification systems were better suited as theories since the basis as for what ability belonged in what category was essentially a theory. Thus, we now have Theory:Abilities by classical element and Theory:Abilities by Dr. Suresh's category.--MiamiVolts (talk) 18:02, 18 December 2007 (EST)
- Right, those are great theories, but they wouldn't work for splitting this portal, if you ask me. I have no problem splitting off the graphic novel powers (especially since a friend recently came to me and was a little perturbed that they had to "ignore" the GN content that's included on this page since they don't believe they should have to read the comics in order to enjoy Heroes), but I don't see a dire need to split the page yet. It's long, but not terrible. I'm not against a split, I'm just not going to fight for one, either. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:05, 18 December 2007 (EST)
Consensus check
Split to Portal:Graphic Novel Abilities and Portal:Abilities
- --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 22:37, 26 December 2007 (EST)
- --MiamiVolts (talk) 23:00, 26 December 2007 (EST)
- --Dawntreader 23:41, 23 September 2008 (PST)
Don't split
- No need right now. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:06, 27 December 2007 (EST)
- To split would be to label the GN abilities inferior to the others in some way --SacValleyDweller (talk) 18:02, 14 January 2008 (EST)
- Seems fine to me. --Ice Vision (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2008 (EST)
- I don't think there is any need to split the pages. The graphic novel abilities have no similarities except for the fact that they're graphic novel abilities! I think the pages should stay. And why were they changed anyway? Jason Garrick 18:00, 24 February 2008 (EST)
- This is kind of an old discussion, but the plan from the very beginning was to split off the abilities from the graphic novels into their own portal, much like we've done with Portal:Graphic Novel Characters, Portal:Graphic Novel Locations, and Portal:Graphic Novel Places. The consensus check from two months ago was to see if it was time to split the portal or not. Personally, I didn't think it needed it back then, but our list of abilities has grown since then. Now really is a much better time to make the split. Eventually, we'll also have a portal for graphic novel items, graphic novel events, etc. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:02, 24 February 2008 (EST)
- One page listing all the powers in the Heroes-verse. Splitting characters is different that splitting powers. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 02/25/2008 10:33 (EST)
- Portals are different than list pages. Portals are for navigation, lists are for comprehensive lists. For a list of all the powers, see powers. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:21, 25 February 2008 (EST)
- Don't split...love a one-point reference page! --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 09/24/2008 21:26 (EST)
- You're a little late. The portal was split awhile ago. See Portal:Graphic Novel Abilities. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:35, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
Super speed and ando's ability?
even though Ando's ability was very brief, i feel it does deserve the honor to at least show up on the portal as "Ando's ability"... also super speed with Daphne already has a page and what not it just isn't on the portal. I say we add it but some people know better than i.--Pbmarcano 21:12, 24 September 2008 (EDT) --EDIT-- while were at it maybe mohinder's ability as well?
- I'll take care of it. The pages have been created, they just haven't been added to this portal yet. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:35, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
- thanks, sorry i couldn't be more help, i guess this can be erased now.--Pbmarcano 16:25, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
Psychometry
According to one of the previews from the Heroes Countdown episode, we're going to be seeing Psychometry coming into play. Psychometry is the ability to touch an object and instantly know it's history; where it's been, where it came from, etc. A search for Psychometry currently redirects to Clairsentience, so once it debuts on the show will it remain as a subclass of Clairsentience, or will it receive it's own page and place on the portal? Anticrash 18:54, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
- The character used in that segment is Bridget Bailey, who has clairsentience. The name and content is derived from BBC's coverage of Heroes, but was later picked up by the Heroes staff, and is now Heroes Evolutions content. So, the name comes from the writing staff, and will stay that way. I'm not sure where you got that name from.--Bob (talk) 19:11, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
- As well, the name "clairsentience" is explicitly used in Bridget's emails to Mohinder. Chandra used the term (and wrote an entire chapter about it) in Activating Evolution. Unless they use the term "psychometry" on air, there won't be any need to change the name of the article. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:50, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
- Okay, I get it now. I didn't realize that was the clairsentient girl from the BBC. I used the term "Psychometry" just because Angela said that she can "touch an object and know it's history," which is the definition of Psychometry. I didn't know that they applied that definition to clairsentience. It's a term I've been aware of for years, so when Angela used that description I immediately made a connection Psychometry. In my experience, clairsentience has always related more to universal awareness (like a form of Precognition, but at the present time) while Psychometry relates to objects and physical contact. Thanks for clearing that up. Anticrash 01:38, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
- As well, the name "clairsentience" is explicitly used in Bridget's emails to Mohinder. Chandra used the term (and wrote an entire chapter about it) in Activating Evolution. Unless they use the term "psychometry" on air, there won't be any need to change the name of the article. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:50, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
When do abilities normally show?
From what I've seen, it's mid-20s to 30/40s for a "parentally normal" person, and young child to teen for those with parental powers. Is that about right? Lorddarigarn 08:30, 21 November 2008
- I don't think there's any rule. Peter is not have "parentally normal", yet he displayed his powers when he was in his 20s. Penny's parents both have powers, yet she's never displayed a power herself. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 10:47, 21 November 2008 (EST)
ability resistance
its seems that people with abilities have a resistance to others abilities, for example; angela had a resistance to matt's telepathic probing; sylar was able to overcome doyle's pupet hold; matt was able to overcome the hatians anti power field; luke was able to overcome sylars telekinisis to warn his drink up for him. I think this kind of thing deserves a page but i have no idea how to start.
niki vercame mauray to inject herself with the shanti virus
- I think it's mainly willpower. --Lolwut 17:08, 13 April 2009 (EDT)
i was thinking making a table. 50000JH
Powers from iStories
I think they shouldn't be on the same page as powers from the episodes. Abilities from graphic novels aren't here, so why should the ones from iStories be here?--Alen (talk) 19:32, 12 April 2009 (EDT)
- They've been put here before, light absorption was one of them. I don't oppose creating a portal for iStory abilities, I just find it unnecessary. If lots of abilities show up only in iStory though, I'd support the split. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:34, 12 April 2009 (EDT)
- I agree with Inuitive Empath and none have images bar light absoption which would mean a portal of blank images. But if more come out the wood work then I don't mind. --posted by Laughingdevilboy
Talk 19:37, 12 April 2009 (EDT)
- They don't have their own section yet, so they end up with the other abilities. The normal process is to split when we have enough abilities to make it worth it. There are four of them now (Light generation, Linda's, Crazy grin man's, and Water generation) so I guess it would be okay to create a new portal for them now. Four is really the minimum we go with. If someone wants to jump on that, that would be great. PS: If you want to update Template:Power, you first need to create Category:iStory Abilities, edit Template:Infobox Power to assign the category if "iStory=t", then edit the four iStory abilities to apply that variable in the template.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:43, 12 April 2009 (EDT)
- I totally agree with alen76, funnily enough i was on this page to make the exact same argument, but i digress. the 'episode' ability page is no longer an episode ability page at all, and will be littered with abilities we will never actually see. hey, you did it for the heroes evolutions clairstience, and that was only one ability. I mean you had more info on empathic mimicry than most of these new abilities --Lolwut 16:56, 13 April 2009 (EDT)
I suggested a while ago that we create a portal for webisode abilities. How about the portal can be 'Evolutions' abilities, and have Webside AND iStory? Included could be water mimicry, teleportation, constriction, accelerated probability, David's ability, and then obviously light absorption, crazy grin man's ability, and the like. -- Tristan0709 talk 00:13, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
- I like that alot. There should be a page with abilities just from the episodes, the ironic thing is that the admins have done exactly that for the graphic novels, which has less precedence --Lolwut 07:41, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
- I think the reason graphic novels abilities were made a category for was that there was a lot of them. We haven't seen a lot of webisode/iStory abilities, so I think a category of Other abilities would be alright. However, this would beg the question - which takes precedence, other abilities or GN abilities. In other words, if an ability appears in an webisode as well as a GN (as teleportation and water mimicry does), which category does it go in? For this reason I think we should consider separating abilities into 4 major categories -- see here for an examples of how Template:power would look. --Radicell 07:57, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
- Yea thats a good point. i think that the ladder should go episodes ---> graphic novels ---> istory/webisodes or something like that. i think that we should place an ability in the area it was seen first (like, water mimicry would be in 'webisode/istory abilities' and teleportation aswell) course that said if it appears in the show it should permanenty stay in the episodes page, like sound manip. --Lolwut 09:00, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
- Elemental Manipulator posted the same request on my talk page. I agree, we need a new portal. In fact, Miami's comment above is 100% spot on. The portals are designed to get to be a certain size, but then split when we have enough from another medium. (We might also want to think about creating a "Portal:Graphic Novel Items", but that's a different discussion.) I'm not really hearing any dissent on this page--some are saying it's not necessary, but nobody seems outright opposed. And ultimately, since the original plan for the portals was to split them up anyway, I'll go ahead and take care of splitting them. I like the plan outlined above. We can tweak if necessary, but I'll start by making a portal for Evolutions abilities, which will include abilities featured only in webisodes and iStory content. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:51, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
- That's where some (like me) would disagree with you (lolwut) -- I think that webisodes are best placed above graphic novels due to their "live-action" nature. After all, it would make sense for it to go like
Live-action
Live-action (on a smaller scale)
Illustrated material
Written material
--Radicell 19:53, 14 April 2009 (EDT)- I tend to agree with Radicell on this one. I usually prefer live action images over illustrated images...but I don't care too much one way or another to stand in the way of anything. It's more of a personal preference for me, I think. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:18, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
- Yes, I also think webisodes should be the higher canon. Some (Hard Knox, for example) were actually intended to be in the show, so I think it would be foolish to consider graphic novels more important, so to speak. -- Tristan0709 talk 00:08, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
- I also agree. --posted by Laughingdevilboy
- Yes, I also think webisodes should be the higher canon. Some (Hard Knox, for example) were actually intended to be in the show, so I think it would be foolish to consider graphic novels more important, so to speak. -- Tristan0709 talk 00:08, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
- I tend to agree with Radicell on this one. I usually prefer live action images over illustrated images...but I don't care too much one way or another to stand in the way of anything. It's more of a personal preference for me, I think. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:18, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
- Yea thats a good point. i think that the ladder should go episodes ---> graphic novels ---> istory/webisodes or something like that. i think that we should place an ability in the area it was seen first (like, water mimicry would be in 'webisode/istory abilities' and teleportation aswell) course that said if it appears in the show it should permanenty stay in the episodes page, like sound manip. --Lolwut 09:00, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
- I think the reason graphic novels abilities were made a category for was that there was a lot of them. We haven't seen a lot of webisode/iStory abilities, so I think a category of Other abilities would be alright. However, this would beg the question - which takes precedence, other abilities or GN abilities. In other words, if an ability appears in an webisode as well as a GN (as teleportation and water mimicry does), which category does it go in? For this reason I think we should consider separating abilities into 4 major categories -- see here for an examples of how Template:power would look. --Radicell 07:57, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
- I like that alot. There should be a page with abilities just from the episodes, the ironic thing is that the admins have done exactly that for the graphic novels, which has less precedence --Lolwut 07:41, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
Talk 07:42, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
- Not sure iStory abilities should be kept with webisode ones, they belong to different levels. iStory belongs to written material and webisode belongs to small scale live action. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:11, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
- Exactly my point. Also, right now, we seem to have the current system ranking as Episode -> Evolutions -> GNs. But on Template:power, we've got the GN ones listed above the Evolutions ones. It's a minor problem, but raises major questions as to whether or not we want to keep the system that way. --Radicell 19:49, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
- Maybe the same "criteria order" we use for ability naming? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:19, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
- Radicell, on template:power, they should really be listed alphabetically, not in hierarchical order--I'll fix that now. As for whether webisodes and iStory abilities both belong in under Evolutions abilities, I don't really care one way or another. In fact, I altered template:infobox power so we could easily change it if we needed to (I had a feeling this discussion would surface). I definitely think they need to be split from the episodic abilities. But if we split the Evolutions abilities, we're left with two very measly portals, which seems really imbalanced. I don't have a problem lumping them all together right now...but if it's deemed necessary to split them, I don't have a problem with that either--I just don't like having such wimpy portals out there. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:34, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
- Radicell has a good point however as we've seen so far webisodes and iStory are usually lower with canon material. i agree with Lolwut, episodes-> graphic novels-> webisodes/iStory. Right now aside from the episodes, graphic novels are usually more accurate with canon material and canonocity (is that even a word?). :P Shoyru1177 09:59, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
- Who says that graphic novels are more accurate? And for purposes of this wiki, there is no difference in the level of canon (or canonicity) of the graphic novels and any Evolutions content. See help:sources for more information. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:23, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
- Radicell has a good point however as we've seen so far webisodes and iStory are usually lower with canon material. i agree with Lolwut, episodes-> graphic novels-> webisodes/iStory. Right now aside from the episodes, graphic novels are usually more accurate with canon material and canonocity (is that even a word?). :P Shoyru1177 09:59, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
- Radicell, on template:power, they should really be listed alphabetically, not in hierarchical order--I'll fix that now. As for whether webisodes and iStory abilities both belong in under Evolutions abilities, I don't really care one way or another. In fact, I altered template:infobox power so we could easily change it if we needed to (I had a feeling this discussion would surface). I definitely think they need to be split from the episodic abilities. But if we split the Evolutions abilities, we're left with two very measly portals, which seems really imbalanced. I don't have a problem lumping them all together right now...but if it's deemed necessary to split them, I don't have a problem with that either--I just don't like having such wimpy portals out there. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:34, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
- Maybe the same "criteria order" we use for ability naming? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:19, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
- Exactly my point. Also, right now, we seem to have the current system ranking as Episode -> Evolutions -> GNs. But on Template:power, we've got the GN ones listed above the Evolutions ones. It's a minor problem, but raises major questions as to whether or not we want to keep the system that way. --Radicell 19:49, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
- Not sure iStory abilities should be kept with webisode ones, they belong to different levels. iStory belongs to written material and webisode belongs to small scale live action. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:11, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
- I think it should go (in canonicity) Episodes --> Webisodes --> Graphic Novels --> IStory. But that is my opinion. --posted by Laughingdevilboy
Talk 15:47, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
"Byproduct of" Section ?
I was wandering around here, and i just thought, why not adding a section "Byproduct of" in the abilities' description ? As we often speak of that kind of things, it would be easier for people to find, as some byproducts don't really match the idea we can have from an ability (such as precognition be a byproduct of telepathy).
- I doubt there would be much use for it, there aren't many abilities with by-products and the one's that do have not yet been fully proven (e.g precognition to be a by-product of telepathy) -- Jenx222 · U · T · C 15:47, 18 October 2009 (EDT)
Update
I think that this page is in need of an update, adding in all of the abilities, or is there a reason that some of them are not on it? --mc_hammark 15:22, 18 October 2009 (EDT)
- We have three ability portals, for three "canon" levels, this is for episodes (the highest), the graphic novel (the lowest), and the evolutions (in between). For all abilities, see list of abilities. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 15:31, 18 October 2009 (EDT)
- Yeah, I seen that after I'd posted this. It still surprises me that I've been on here for ages yet still haven't seen quite a number of pages! :) --mc_hammark 15:33, 18 October 2009 (EDT)