Episode talk:The Wall

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Character Updates Update Main Character pages ___ Claire Bennet ___ Noah Bennet N/A Ando Masahashi N/A Hiro Nakamura ___ Matt Parkman, Sr. ___ Angela Petrelli ___ Nathan Petrelli ___ Peter Petrelli N/A Tracy Strauss ___ Samuel Sullivan N/A Mohinder Suresh ___ Sylar Update character-related pages ___ Groups ___ Appearances ___ Connections

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WHOA.

So, mid-episode thought, but does anyone get the feeling that the telekinetic guy who attacked Noah in 1985 might be someone we've seen before? Sure looks like him, and it would damn well explain a lot. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 21:17, 1 February 2010 (EST)

• Apparently his name is "Richard". Neeevermind. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 21:29, 1 February 2010 (EST)
  • That's what I thought too. It certainly seems like they just added that line identifying him so that we would NOT be having this discussion.--Gibbeynator 06:33, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Did... did they...

Did they just retcon 'Company Man'?--Gibbeynator 21:42, 1 February 2010 (EST)

• Actually I don't think so: they show Bennet's being approached by The Company and then afterwards. They never reshow that part from Company Man and to me it still fits in.--WarGrowlmon18 21:44, 1 February 2010 (EST)
  • According to the page here, the earliest point in Company Man was 15 years before the then present story, while a good chunk of this story takes place over 20 years before.--Gibbeynator 21:54, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • Yes, but what they showed in Company Man was AFTER Bennet had been fully trained as an agent. You figure Thompson first approached him 23 years ago, approximately. And the initial flashback from Company Man was... what, eighteen years ago? That would allow some time for training and full induction into the Company. --Clairesxtwin48 23:02, 1 February 2010 (EST)
      • But then he wouldn't know Claude, would he? We saw that Noah was introduced to Claude in 1991, but here, it's several years earlier and he's been working with Claude for some time.--Gibbeynator 06:15, 2 February 2010 (EST)
        • Is the scene with Thompson and Noah dated? It's possible that it takes place after the other events (post 1991), thus fitting into the timeline perfectly. Swm 07:12, 2 February 2010 (EST)
          • Noah and Thompson had to have met for lunch BEFORE 1992, because we know that Noah and Sandra were together when they got Claire in 1992. Come to think of it, according to the timeline page, Noah and Sandra were married in 1985, when this episode establishes they didn't meet until at LEAST 1986.--Gibbeynator 08:42, 2 February 2010 (EST)
            • Yeah, but Thompson introduces Noah to Claude in the Company Man Episode, So this wouls have to have been AFTER that, which we know makes no sense. --Action Figure 09:06, 2 February 2010 (EST)
              • Here's the timeline of events as it stands. 1985, Noah marries Sandra. Noah's wife Kate is killed. 1986, Noah goes on his revenge trip. Noah is hired by the Company. 1986-1988, Noah works with Claude, and is mandated by Thompson to get married. (1986-1988)-1992, Noah marries Sandra. 1991, Noah is hired by the Company and is introduced to his partner Claude. 1992, Bennets adopt Claire. See the problem?--Gibbeynator 09:15, 2 February 2010 (EST)
                • Yes, there's definitely something off. We don't know exactly when Noah and Sandra met, but in Turn and Face the Strange, Noah said they were together 22 years; depending on when that episode took place (somewhere between 2007 and 2009), that means Noah and Sandra met somewhere between 1985 and 1987. Also, the scene in Company Man very much shows Noah surprised by Claude's invisibility, and that scene took place "15 years ago", meaning fifteen years before 2006, which is 1991. So in The Wall, Noah meets Sandra after he has met Claude, which contradicts previous information. Oh well! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:45, 2 February 2010 (EST)
                  • Contradictions, contradictions, contradictions. All I can say is, Volume 2. When Hiro when back and changed history there, it must have had some sort of effect. --mc_hammark 17:50, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Now Now

• I really loved this episode, and now that the Carnival is going to New York, does anyone else see the little futures we have seen are going to become one be future for example Sylar being Good, and a Earth being blow-wen up, and Specials being hunt etc if they pull this oh my god--Skyeatsout 22:06, 1 February 2010 (EST)

eli, you cocky fool

Yes, good luck trying to stop peter and sylar. The 2 most powerful specials. R.I.P. Eli. We hardly knew ye.Gamerelite1 22:08, 1 February 2010 (EST)

• I was just thinking that. Sylar is, well, god, and Peter can do whatever Sylar can. Eli's toast.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:09, 1 February 2010 (EST)
  • Did Eli ever meet Sylar? If he did, all he knew was that he could use some low-level telekinesis and electricity - he barely utilized his powers at all while he was in the carnival.--NovaX81 22:13, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • Yeah I don't think eli has ever met them. Ergo, he has no idea the horrible, horrible rape about to befall him.Gamerelite1 22:14, 1 February 2010 (EST)
      • I think they're trying to set up Sylar as someone who's not going to kill anymore.--Gibbeynator 22:17, 1 February 2010 (EST)
        • That doesn't mean he won't defend his life though.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:20, 1 February 2010 (EST)
          • Eli's an idiot. Maybe Sylar and Peter can finally put a stop to him. I don't like that guy. All Peter has to do is replicate one of Sylar's major powers (he no longer needs telepathy now that he's freed Sylar) and the two will kick some serious ass. Peter and Sylar working together........... oh can't wait to see that fight and Eli obviously loses given Sylar shows up to save Emma. Maybe Peter will be able to replicate all of Sylar's abilities now that he has more time to try to do that and will regain at least some of his former power. Maybe Peter will finally get to kill someone on purpose and finally put an end to Eli himself. I had so wanted him to be the one to kill Arthur Petrelli.--WarGrowlmon18 22:23, 1 February 2010 (EST)
            • Maybe peter will try using telepathy to make the clones fall asleep n then it'll be revealed the clones dont have minds and sylar will have to do all the work.daevon 22:26, 1 February 2010 (EST)
              • Speaking of Eli, I love how he said that he and Lauren played some cat and mouse, and the mouse got away. Nice tie in to tonight's iStory. And yes, Eli is a big, hulking, slab of idiot. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:54, 1 February 2010 (EST)
                • Hmm. Todays latest Istory you say? Perhaps I will check that out, but if only I knew who wrote it.Gamerelite1 23:38, 1 February 2010 (EST)
                  • :) Like my shameless plug? :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:49, 2 February 2010 (EST)
    • I personally think that Matt is going to be the one to take Eli out. Heroes has classically given us a season finale in which every character contributes to the final turnout, and although you could say that Matt's done his piece by whammying Sylar, thus allowing him to find his redemption, I still think he's going to end up whammying Eli to allow Peter and Sylar to escape. --Clairesxtwin48 23:43, 1 February 2010 (EST)
      • For reals Sylar can just snap his fingers and make the problem go away. --Action Figure 23:47, 1 February 2010 (EST)
        • But just because he can doesn't mean he will. I'm pretty sure it's gonna end up being Matt. It's either that, or he goes with them to New York, and I just don't see Matt running out on his wife and son again just now. --Clairesxtwin48 23:56, 1 February 2010 (EST)
          • Maybe Peter will take IA from Sylar, slice open his head, take Sylar's powers, and then the both of them will be super powered again.--Gibbeynator 09:28, 2 February 2010 (EST)

I doubt Samuel would have sent his lieutenant to fight Sylar. The Prime Eli must be at the carnival. Btw Ryan, I loved your Purpose chapter. Good to know that there are still some good guys at the carnival, and The Watcher... AltesUTC CH 02:25, 2 February 2010 (EST)

• Thanks, Altes! :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:46, 2 February 2010 (EST)
  • • Yeah, I don't know what Samuel was thinking, as Eli is no match for them (he's barely a match for Lauren and Noah). I think it's likely going to be a scene of Eli vs Peter with Sylar incapacitated by a fear that he might hurt/kill someone, until he overcomes it (or, possibly, Matt will initially side with Eli out of hatred for Sylar). Either way, Sylar and Peter are obviously not going to be stopped. What I am afraid of, however, is that Sylar will somehow die in the NY confrontation (even though I still consider that a direct contradiction of canon, unless he loses his powers), since most reformed villains with as much blood on their hands as he has only have the 'sacrificial way out.' --Stevehim 13:13, 2 February 2010 (EST)

One of the best episodes ever?

I was so amazed by tonight's episode I was able to look over the tired metaphor of a wall as a personal barrier. Personally, I love any episode where Peter and Sylar are buddies, but this episode had some superb acting and Noah and Claire fate is quite ominous. What does everyone else think?--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:08, 1 February 2010 (EST)

• Loved it myself, personally I cant help but wonder 'how long will Eli's clones last against both Peter and Sylar'.My guess, not long. -- Tbora 22:19, 1 February 2010 (EST)
  • It was alright, like a 3.9 out of 5. Kind of slow in the beginning, but picked up right at the end. daevon 22:23, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • I thought it was a great episode. I didn't see anything slow about it. I mean, we started off learning that Noah has a wife and a whole life before Sandra and the kids. Holy cow! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:55, 1 February 2010 (EST)

The Wall (the one in the episode) and what it represented

I think the wall was created by Peter's own fears of letting Sylar go, at least his subconcious fear and most likely anger. It manifested as a wall that blocked them from escaping and it obviously wasn't put there by Matt given what happened. Notice how once Peter accepted Sylar's changed and maybe forgave him at least a bit, the wall was easily broken. I think that was him letting go of that subconious fear and anger that was blocking him.--WarGrowlmon18 22:27, 1 February 2010 (EST)

• Yep. I believe you said it fairly accurately.--Halfxwitted 22:32, 1 February 2010 (EST)

• • Well when you consider that even when Sylar fully went at berserk at the wall it did not come down, and that when Peter did forgive him it started to crack it becan.Which actually makes sense when you think about it.I mean Peter did have Matt's ability so his emotions would effect the mindscape greater then even Sylar's own.Same thing basically occurs between Matt inside of the Speedsters Mind when she is dying. -- Tbora 22:32, 1 February 2010 (EST)

The Wrong Focus?

Does anyone else feel that entirely too much time is devoted towards HRG/Claire. Did we actually learn anything relevant in this episode about HRG that warranted taking away time from the plot from moving forward? Pointless filler if you ask me. Also while you're asking me, I feel essential information about the 'years' Peter/Sylar were trapped should have been shown.--Halfxwitted 22:29, 1 February 2010 (EST)

• I think we're supposed to leave that to imagination (and fanfiction for all those writters out there).--WarGrowlmon18 22:33, 1 February 2010 (EST)
  • I agree with you one hundred percent, even if for a filler, the Noah flashbacks were actually pretty cool and developed him further as a character. -- Tbora 22:35, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • I didn't see anything as filler. I learned about Noah's motives, why he originally joined the Company, his first obsession, his relationship with Claude, and how all that has affected his mind to make him who he is today. It brought it all back home when we learned that he threatened Gretchen. You can take the man out of the Company, but you can't take the Company out of the man. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:58, 1 February 2010 (EST)
  • I think they could have told the same story in less space and given us more of the shift in the balance between Peter and Sylar, but I didn't feel that the revelations about HRG were by any means 'filler.' I have a feeling that it's all going to come to bear weight, either in the season finale or in the potential Volume Six. I just think they could have done it with more brevity. --Clairesxtwin48 23:05, 1 February 2010 (EST)

Hey...

It was that one flashback only ability again! The guys with that ability sure have a hard time staying alive. At least this one didn't have a daughter he was defending.--Ratclaws 22:34, 1 February 2010 (EST)

• Number 1 Rule of Seismic Burst: Seconds after activating your ability, you will be shot and killed. No exceptions. --Whizzles 22:47, 1 February 2010 (EST)
  • Number 2 rule of seismic burst you will always, always be in a black and white flashback.Gamerelite1 23:34, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • I feel those rules should be reversed. Rule One: Your ability can only be used in black and white flashbacks. Rule Two: If you use it, expect to die by gunshot within a few seconds.--Riddler 23:38, 1 February 2010 (EST)

Revelations about Noah

That explains his hatred of specials and his blood-thirsty methods at points although I wish we knew if he ever found Richard or not. Imagine having to go through all of that. He noticably changed, note at the cardealership the last time he wasn't so helpful with the couple and instead was pushing to sell the car he wanted sold.--WarGrowlmon18 22:36, 1 February 2010 (EST)

• He found, in his own words, his "killer instinct". -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:59, 1 February 2010 (EST)

Peter's dream of Emma

I think I get it now: Samuel is going to use Doyle to force Emma to use her power to summon people to the Carnival where he and the other carnies will terrorize them with their powers and kill them. Emma won't be directly responsible for the deaths, she's just the lure. That preview also confirmed Doyle was controlling her too. I love those lines by Sylar and Doyle: "your one of us!!!!!!!!!!!", "no, I'm a hero." Never thought I'd hear Sylar say that and mean it.--WarGrowlmon18 22:39, 1 February 2010 (EST)

• Let's be careful about discussing spoilers here... -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:00, 1 February 2010 (EST)
  • I know, but I just had to bring it up. Besides, I figured it was something like that before we saw the preview. That was my take when we learned Samuel's plans and the preview just confirmed it for me.--WarGrowlmon18 23:02, 1 February 2010 (EST)

The Carnival's teleportation ability

I know this isn't important, but I really wish they'd give us some kind of an explanation for that as it can clearly teleport.--WarGrowlmon18 22:41, 1 February 2010 (EST)

• Au contraire, it is QUITE important. And I do wish they'd explain it. I personally think it has something to do with Samuel's terrakinesis. Either that, or someone in the Carnival has a trans-locational ability of some kind. Like Hiro's teleporting, only for a more general area instead of an individual...? --Clairesxtwin48 23:00, 1 February 2010 (EST)
  • It's gotta go to New York for the finale, right? We might finally get an explanation when it jumps one last time. Swm 09:41, 2 February 2010 (EST)
    • Let's hope so! :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:47, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Howie Kaplan

Didnt sylar say something about howie kaplan beating peter at something? daevon 22:42, 1 February 2010 (EST)

• He did, beating him on the football field or something like that.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:50, 1 February 2010 (EST)
  • It was the 50-yard dash. And it was our third Howie Kaplan. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:59, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • I think it's safe to say that Peter could have gone to high school in the same year as Slick when they werer kids and didnt know about their abilities yet. In fact, being able to trip other people would be useful for a football player. I think it's not to much of a stretch to assume they're the same. Usually they don't throw around full names of existing characters for no reason, even if it was the same name as a crew member.--Piemanmoo 01:11, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Wrap up or expand?

Do you think that this season is going to end nicely without any loose ends, all villains taken care of and plots foiled like every other season, or do you think that next episode is going to create something completely epic to be expanded upon in the next volume? Personally, I hope it will be the latter, I'm really enjoying this story arc and it has tons of potential.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:53, 1 February 2010 (EST)

• Who knows. I'd really like to see a genuinly good Sylar for at least a season before the show ends permanantly. I'm so sick of him as an unstoppable villian. If he really has turned over a new leaf, he and Peter could make an incredible team. I always thought that if they didn't hate each other so much and Sylar wasn't so evil, the two could be good friends.--WarGrowlmon18 22:57, 1 February 2010 (EST)
• I think they're going to be tying up a lot of plots, on the offchance (fingers crossed, people!) that the show is canceled, but I also think they're going to leave a few loose ends to carry over into the next season. Like what they did with season one, hinting that Sylar wasn't dead after all, etc. Give them a lead-in to whatever comes next. But I agree with WarGrowlmon18- it would be nice to see Sylar actually achieve this goal of redemption that he's been struggling with and MAKE IT STICK. --Clairesxtwin48 23:07, 1 February 2010 (EST)
  • Yeah and I really want to see Sylar and Peter as a team trying to save the world. That's got some great possiblities right there. Maybe next season (or at least Volume) could be about Sylar's search for personal redemption as a true hero aided by his former enemy and new friend Peter. If he ever wants his powers blocked, Peter could probably do it himself if he copies telepathy again from Matt, but if Sylar has truly changed, he may want to use them for good now. With Volume 3, I think he really did want redemption, but the Hunger and the realization that he was just being manipulated set him back on an evil path. If he's helped by someone who truly beleives in him, then I think he has a chance.--WarGrowlmon18 23:25, 1 February 2010 (EST)

Suresh

According to the NBC blurb about this episode, Sendhil was supposed to appear. What happened? --Action Figure 00:00, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Minor Thing

I am wondering if we should be referring to Sylar, as Sylar or Gabriel? As he has said he has changed.

• still the same guy, just had a change of heart.Gamerelite1 00:15, 2 February 2010 (EST)
  • Well he has always been the same person, even when he thought he was Nathan.What I meant, is that depending on how he felt he would either refuse to be called anything but Sylar when he was feeling evil.Or anything but Gabriel when he was good.So as of now, what is wanting to be called, and in turn, what should be be calling him? -- Tbora 00:18, 2 February 2010 (EST)
    • We will refer to the character as Gabriel if he begins referring to himself as Gabriel. We will only move his page if he is referred to as Gabriel consistently for, oh, say four seasons straight, to match the four seasons he's been called Sylar. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:51, 2

Timeline in "The Wall"

If it had been 3 years in Sylar's mind when it had been 3 hours in real time, when they came out Peter said that it had been around half a day. so does that mean in their minds they were in there together for around 7-12 years? -- User:Devane183507.22am -GMT February 2010 (EST)

• That seems to be the implication. Swm 06:46, 2 February 2010 (EST)
  • I like how having Peter barge in and try to free Sylar didn't dissuade Parkman from finishing his wall. He just sorta moves Peter away, and goes back to building a wall.--Gibbeynator 06:57, 2 February 2010 (EST)
    • I really wish we'd seen more of those years together. They were definitly in there for years, both Peter and Sylar said so.--WarGrowlmon18 08:00, 2 February 2010 (EST)
      • I agree. The forgiveness/redemption storylines that went on between the two was nearly the climax of both their character arcs, and I was disappointed that HRG's angst-ridden (and timeline confused) past was the focus rather than the stories of their main protagonist and their main antagonist. But I guess they're leaving the rest up to the fanfic writers... --Clairesxtwin48 17:03, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Claire

I'm not always paying alot of attention as I watch these days so it may have been explained, but why hadn't Claire's neck healed? --Obviouslyme 14:18, 2 February 2010 (EST)

• I think it's healed, that's just dried blood she hasn't had a chance to wash off yet. --Stevehim 14:46, 2 February 2010 (EST)

new actors and characters

Kenneth Colom (image)

Billie (image)

Meghan McCaig (image)

Sadie (image)

Sherri Saum (image)

Kate Bennet (image)

Stephen Monroe Taylor (image)

Richard (image)

Justin Dray (image)

repairman (image)

Gregory Hoyt (image)

car buyer (image)

Heather Christine (image)

car buyer's wife (image)

-- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:36, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Empathy

Is anyone else hopeful that the "mind sharing" with Sylar could be the trigger for Peter getting his EM back? Many people think Peter's power was reduced to the weaker AR form because he lost his empathy, and connecting with Sylar emotionally certainly gave him a lot of extra strength since he was able to break through the wall - so if the "lost empathy" theory proves correct, this could be the moment!

If so, though, then I feel sorry for Eli. He's going to be vaporised!

Actually, regarding Eli, suppose Peter empathically mimics his power - I wonder if any clones he makes would then also have any other mimicked abilities the prime Peter has (e.g. those he'd have copied from Sylar right about now). Sir Link 15:58, 2 February 2010 (EST)

• No, I'm not. Empathic mimicry is a heinously broken power and Peter should never, ever regain it. I actually doubt Eli will die here- we know Peter's not a killer and Sylar will hardly start off his redemption by splitting open another skull, right? Swm 16:34, 2 February 2010 (EST)
• Interesting theory about the clones. Hm. I have no idea. But I agree, his experiences inside the Parkman whammy and his coming to terms with Sylar would be exactly the thing to restore Peter's powers to greater, if not equal to his former, levels. Though I agree with Sir Link that I don't really want him to be restored to his former godlike state. Not only would it make for bad storytelling, it would counteract all the growth emotionally and mentally that Peter underwent in Volume 4. Still, upgrading him to four or five powers at a time would definitely be a step up. --Clairesxtwin48 17:01, 2 February 2010 (EST)
  • I actually like Peter with his EM, and hope he gets it back. Without it, he's a much weaker (read: in terms of power) character, and really no match for Sylar at all (even if they're not going to fight anymore, which I hope remains the case...I'm just not sure what kind of villain they can really introduce to the show and have be a threat if Matt, Hiro, Peter, the Haitian and Sylar are all on the same side...maybe present vs future versions or something like that). --Stevehim 17:33, 2 February 2010 (EST)
    • I'm wondering much the same thing. Perhaps some kind of evil time traveller who has no qualms about messing with history? Makes for a good Hiro storyline, plenty of room for cameos of old characters, and such a person would be strong enough to hold their own against most of the people on the show. Swm 17:36, 2 February 2010 (EST)
      • Yep yep for EM, He should get it back, he should never have lost it in the first place. -- (WaterRatj) 17:51, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Eli

How do we know that Eli prime is at Matt's house at all? Do we know for certain the range that the clones can travel from the Prime? The way the end of the episode recap reads, it seems to declare that Eli Prime is the one on the stairs, and I'm not sure we know that for certain. --Stevehim 17:29, 2 February 2010 (EST)

• We don't, you are correct. The clones can exist far away from the Prime, as was demonstrated in the latest GN's where Tracy is forced to fight them off in her makeshift school. And it would actually make a great deal of sense for Eli to deploy his clones and stay as far away from Sylar, reformed or not, as humanly possible. Swm 17:31, 2 February 2010 (EST)
  • It is the Prime though. The Graphic Novel:Reaching Out, Part 1 confirms that clones can't create clones; Tracy thanks Eli for sacraficing a clone for Ricky which would be pointless if they could clone themseves). And along with that, tow clones appear behind Sylar and Peter so that Eli must be the prime, or at least the prime nearby. --mc_hammark 17:46, 2 February 2010 (EST)